The Nineteenth Byte

emanresu A

08:00

Or flag

ATaco

And offer helpful advise, because just because it's off topic, doesn't mean we can't direct these people to the correct resources.

Everyone was a new coder once, and we have the privilege to guide new coders to the best start.

emanresu A

If they’re asking here, 9/10 times they’ve been rejected from SO

DialFrost

haha

ATaco

Yeah, but SO has a habit of just saying "Off topic, Move on"

We should be the better site and tell them why it's off topic, and how they can improve.

DialFrost

ataco do u think the challenge is ok

the evoltuion thingy

or anybody else

ATaco

08:03

I probably wouldn't try it personally, but it wouldn't hurt to post it to the Sandbox.

DialFrost

rly ah

this thing gna take a lot of time to create lol

ig ill js post it ltr

emanresu A

@ATaco Agreed.’

ATaco

Would suck for someone to be turned off programming because no-one was willing to help them get started.

I would hope that being in an education setting as they appear to be, they'll have someone that can actually help them, But not all professors or teachers actually put effort into their students.

emanresu A

I learned to code by messing around with HTML so I’ve never really experienced that.

Although… Half the kids in my digital technology class just spend most of the time playing Minecraft.

ATaco

My father taught me early on.

(Convince them to download ComputerCraft, They can learn to code AND play minecraft)

They even have an Education version with Block-based Programming, and Minecraft Education Edition has a pretty solid Programming block.

emanresu A

08:14

Not much point - I doubt any of them will be taking it next year

DialFrost

haha

shld i make it so the center is always 1

or input coords

actually center easier so ye

PyGamer0

i learned to code......errr.....i almost forgot lol......i learnt visual basic because my father showed me a course

and now here i am learning c++ from another course lol

@DialFrost sounds easy to me

emanresu A

I did scratch in primary school but I didn’t really get into programming until the pandemic started.

It’s been a wonderful two years.

PyGamer0

@DialFrost i think output the next Generation given a matrix sounds better

@emanresuA i didnt program much until the pandemic

emanresu A

08:30

I’m trying to parse a 2d language right now

It’s no easy task

PyGamer0

why are you trying to parse a 2d language

i am trying to parse Shakespeare's play for my exam tmrw

emanresu A

I’m trying to turn an ASCII art tree into a real tree

*tree data structure

null

i am back

PyGamer0

converts ASCII art into real trees 🌲

@null epic music plays cause you are back

null

@PyGamer0 no sarcasm please

I'm just saying I'm back

PyGamer0

08:36

@null no sarcasm intended

if there was i would put a /s

emanresu A

I’m trying to give it decent error reporting

null

oh alright

PyGamer0

@null but but you are not back you are null

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Cell Evolution Your lab needed to simulate how a particular cell evolves over time in a 2D grid space. A sample 2D grid space below shows a single cell at the centre of the grid. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 The cell evolution follows these rules: '0' indicates no live cell...

emanresu A

It’s 50 lines and I haven’t started serialising the tree yet

DialFrost

08:37

done

PyGamer0

ok

DialFrost

i have a feeling its not very good so feel free to edit or comment guys!

null

@PyGamer0 null is not my intended username

PyGamer0

@null but you are null

null

@PyGamer0 the earth needs you

Niko

08:38

my chinese exam writing part get 5/40

pog

Am i not passing again

null

@emanresuA You mean like UVa10562?

@Niko ud2_?

PyGamer0

@Niko chinese language exam o_O

emanresu A

@null what’s that ?

PyGamer0

also fun fact 1+1 is 1

vyxal agrees

null

@emanresuA that is confused cat noises

PyGamer0

08:42

!!/run 1+1

Vyxal Bot

@PyGamer0 1

Niko

I live in Taiwan, we use chinese here

lol

my english is better then chinese in term of score

PyGamer0

@Niko i thought they used some different language

Niko

No, china use simplified chinese while we use traditional one

emanresu A

I know a couple of Chinese characters, and only as kanji

Niko

08:43

it's mostly only different in how it looks like

PyGamer0

@Niko wha

Niko

the sound is same

PyGamer0

isnt traditional harder?

!!/run `HELLO I AM BOT FEED ME BUTTER

Niko

have overall same set of words, but with some write in more complicated form

Vyxal Bot

@PyGamer0 HELLO I AM BOT FEED ME BUTTER

7

PyGamer0

08:45

!!/run `Cookies also work.

Vyxal Bot

@PyGamer0 Cookies also work.

PyGamer0

i wonder if vyxal pros can create a vyxal chatbot in vyxal

emanresu A

I can’t do much Vyxal teaching from my phone but here’s a CMC: swap the last two of every triplet in a string, e.g. idiosyncrasy-> iidoysnrcays

@PyGamer0 web server capabilities probably coming with v3

PyGamer0

o_O

Adám

How long does LYAL run?

emanresu A

08:56

24 hours

o/

null

@Niko china?

I heard (from User:ColorfulGalaxy) that taiwan is part of china.

Adám

@null Let's keep things civil and not get into politics.

PyGamer0

09:16

@null ^^

otherwise bad things could happen

null

@Adám That was a sarcasm on User:ColorfulGalaxy, which uses this tone for everything.

I'm going to make a challenge about him at some point

I heard (from blahblah) that ...

null

09:31

Can someone collabrate with me?

I'm trying to golf the rickroll song, starting with plain priting

in !@#$%^&*()_+

Niko

@null situation is weird, but currently, we have our own government

null

ok

ColorfulGalaxy is never reliable

Niko

there is so many different prospective about this situation,

null

nvm

> Let's keep things civil and not get into politics.

Niko

e

2

agree

null

09:36

> Can someone collabrate with me?

> I'm trying to golf the rickroll song, starting with plain priting

New Posts

09:48

0

Q: Implement an argwhere function

The \$argwhere\$ function takes a list of values and a predicate/boolean function as arguments and returns a list of indices where the predicate function returns true in the input list. For example, argwhere([1, 2, 3, -5, 5], x -> x > 2) would produce an output of [2, 4] because those are the (0...

lyxal

10:15

VyMC: Given a string, return the first half then reverse it.

It's guaranteed that the string will be an even length

Neil

@lyxal so close, and yet so far... ("its" is correct in both instances)

lyxal

@Neil for some reason, my spelling and grammar was a tad bit off earlier today

so I wouldn't be surprised if I managed to mangle its and it's at least once

lyxal

11:46

just a few little fun facts about Vyxal:

1) if you don't give a left value for a decimal, it's assumed to be 0

!!/run .4

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal 2/5

lyxal

!!/run .4 0.4 =

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal 1

lyxal

2) an empty decimal is just 0.5

!!/run .

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal 1/2

lyxal

11:48

!!/run . 0.5 =

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal 1

lyxal

3) If you don't give a left value to for a complex number, the real part is assumed to be 0

!!/run °5

Vyxal Bot

[@lyxal: 60192530]
STDERR:
ValueError: Error from parse_expr with transformed code: '+Integer (5 )I '

The above exception was the direct cause of the following exception:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/Vyxal/.local/lib/python3.9/site-packages/sympy/core/sympify.py", line 472, in sympify
    expr = parse_expr(a, local_dict=locals, transformations=transformations, evaluate=evaluate)
  File "/home/Vyxal/.local/lib/python3.9/site-packages/sympy/parsing/sympy_parser.py", line 1026, in parse_expr

lyxal

The transpilation must be a little broken rn

but that's what it's supposed to do

4) if you don't give a right value for a complex number, it's assumed to be 1

!!/run 5°

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal 5 + I

lyxal

11:50

5) an empty complex number (just °), it's assumed to just be I

!!/run °

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal I

lyxal

6) You can interpolate strings into other strings using %

for example

!!/run `Hello, %`?% - Joe

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal Hello, Joe

lyxal

It inserts the input where the % is

that also works with numbers

!!/run `I would like % [[KROMER]]`?% - 1000

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal I would like 1000 [[KROMER]]

lyxal

11:52

but wait, there's more

!!/run `Multiple values: %, %, %` ⟨1|2|3⟩ %

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal Multiple values: 1, 2, 3

lyxal

not enough values in the list?

!!/run `Multiple values: %, %, %` ⟨1|2⟩ %

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal Multiple values: 1, 2, 1

lyxal

it wraps around!

!!/run `% % %` `abc`%

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal abc abc abc

lyxal

11:54

and it reuses its argument if given a scalar

7) i uses modular indexing, meaning it wraps around to the beginning of a list if the index is greater than the list's length

!!/run ⟨ 69 | 420 | 5 | 21 | 42 | 90 ⟩ 8 i

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal 5

lyxal

and I know that's a standard feature of most golf langs, but I thought I'd mention it

Bgil Midol

Can you set arrays to be one-indexed, like APL?

lyxal

no

0-indexing only

Razetime

i think there's a flag to change indexing of some primitives

lyxal

11:56

!!/run - h

Vyxal Bot

[@lyxal: 60192632]
ALL flags should be used as is (no '-' prefix)
    H    Preset stack to 100
    j    Print top of stack joined by newlines on end of execution
    L    Print top of stack joined by newlines (Vertically) on end of execution
    s    Sum/concatenate top of stack on end of execution
    M    Make implicit range generation start at 0 instead of 1
    m    Make implicit range generation end at n-1 instead of n
    Ṁ    Equivalent to having both m and M flags
    v    Use Vyxal encoding for input file

lyxal

it changes where ranges generate if that's what you mean

Razetime

ah yep m and M

lyxal

Also, there's two things I've realised I didn't cover earlier:

‛ allows you to create a two byte string

it's useful for short words or a single SCC

Bgil Midol

How about a three byte string?

lyxal

11:58

!!/run ‛⇧Ǎ

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal lyc

lyxal

@BgilMidol that doesn't seem like it'd be used enough

and the second thing I didn't cover is the register/global array

the register is a special variable that doesn't need arrows to access its value

Bgil Midol

@lyxal I think it would be good for small words like and

lyxal

@BgilMidol and is already in the dictionary

!!/run ‛λ¬

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal and

Razetime

11:59

have you used 3 byte strings any time during golfing

lyxal

I haven't

@lyxal to access the value of the register, you use ¥, and to set the value of the register, you use £

Razetime

the most useful i've found is definitely single byte strings

lyxal

The global array is sort of like the register, except it's a list

⅛ pops from the stack and pushes to the global array

¼ pops from the global array and pushes to the stack

and ¾ pushes the entire global array to the stack

With that, I have some more VyMCs for everyone

VyMC: Given a list of strings, reverse every second string, starting with index=1

Bgil Midol

@lyxal what does VyMC stand for?

lyxal

Vy(xal) Mini Challenge

during LYAL, language specific CMCs are modified to start with a letter similar to the language's name

Adám

12:08

What happens when we choose C for LYAL?

lyxal

it gets lowercased lol

so it'd be a cMC

Adám

But C isn't called c.

Razetime

@Adám 100% chance this doesn't happen

Adám

Why?

lyxal

@Adám it'd be for the lols

Razetime

12:10

@Adám just a wild prediction with no base

Adám

> • Maybe you want to get better at golfing in a mainstream lang like Python or C.

New Posts

0

Q: Help me sell day old bagels

You work at a bakery and every day you make exactly 100 bagels. However your customers are not as reliable and every day a random number of bagels will be ordered. So sometimes you will run out of bagels and sometimes you will have leftovers. Now leftover bagels will still be good for 1 more da...

code-golf

Razetime

@Adám i still doubt C would get there

now that i said it someone is gonna suggest it

Adám

I'd want to learn some C to better understand what my colleagues are doing.

Razetime

i was thinking most people knew C

Adám

12:22

I highly doubt that.

CMP: Do you know C?

Wheat Wizard

@Adám I feel like cgse is not the best place to learn a programming language for a professional context :)

user

@Adám No lol

Adám

Well, at Dyalog, we tend to hire people that learned APL here.

user

Apl is different

Razetime

hm i learned C as my first language

user

12:27

Razetime is different

Wheat Wizard

C is a pretty normal first language.

user

I’d think most people learn python or js fitlrst

Wheat Wizard

I'm not sure about that. Maybe I'm biased but most people I can think of did not start out in either.

Not that C is a good language to start out in. I think C's archaic model can warp your mind as to computers work a bit.

Ginger Industries

g`day

Wheat Wizard

But C is a big name language I think plenty of people start out in it. (And I'd at least recommend it instead of Python or JS)

lyxal

12:31

@GingerIndustries hey wait that's my line

Ginger Industries

speaking of C

I've come up with another program for me to make

do yall know what PyInstaller is?

lyxal

!!/run `Python` `C` "℅

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal Python

lyxal

There we go

python is better than C

chosen by fair program

Ginger Industries

excuse me what is Vyxal Bot doing in here

lyxal

12:33

13 hours ago, by caird coinheringaahing

Welcome to the eleventh Learn You A Lang for Great Good! Today, we'll be learning Vyxal, a golfing language that aims to be both short and readable. During the day, Vyxal Bot will be active to assist people learning Vyxal, see the pin below for information about how to use it. During the event, feel free to post CMCs to practice Vyxal, ask questions about the language and so on.

Ginger Industries

oH

someday I'll get APOL on that list

but that's another job for another time

anyway, do yall know what PyInstaller is?

lyxal

it reads a Python script written by you. It analyzes your code to discover every other module and library your script needs in order to execute. Then it collects copies of all those files – including the active Python interpreter! – and puts them with your script in a single folder, or optionally in a single executable file.

no I didn't copy and paste that from its pypi listing no why would I do that I would never copy paste something for a cheap joke

Ginger Industries

@lyxal close enough

here's the thing: There are stupid people who use computers

a shock, I know

but some people just don't have the technical know-how to download a folder and configure some desktop shortcuts

So I present: PyInstallerInstaller! No braincells required!™

it's a single .exe that downloads, decompresses (if needed), and sets up a PyInstaller program!

lyxal

you say that as if people won't find a way to screw it up

Ginger Industries

@lyxal if they can launch Reddit, they can download and double-click a file

brb

lyxal

12:39

@GingerIndustries trust me, there'll always be someone

that one person who is that edge case outlier who manages to find ways to not do the thing you expect

lyxal

13:02

I think I'mma head out for the night

have fun lyaling while I'm gone

o/

Aaroneous Miller

I can answer people's Vyxal questions, but I may not be able to get to questions immediately because life likes existing outside of CGCC for some reason.

Ginger Industries

ok im back

so I've had a think and I think there's much more potential for a program like this

I shall call it SSI, or Super Simple Installer

there are plenty of other installer frameworks, but they're generally either too advanced, too outdated, or not free

SSI aims to change that

all you have to do is create a JSON file with some parameters and bing bang boom you get an executable!

all I need is a language to make it in

PyGamer0

@Adám i guess i know C

Ginger Industries

Anyone have any candidates for a language that can:
1. be compiled to a fast-launching single-file executable (sorry PyInstaller)
2. is at least somewhat like Python
these feel like they're mutually exclusive but I hope not

PyGamer0

i am learning C++ rn

Wheat Wizard

13:14

These are indeed mutually exclusive.

Because there is no such thing as a language that is easy to use.

Ginger Industries

@WheatWizard updated the criteria

PyGamer0

can haskell compile?

Wheat Wizard

Haskell is compiled.

Ginger Industries

my best bet feels like a C derivative but those are clunky by Pythonic standards

Wheat Wizard

Haskell is definitely not clunky but it thankfully is quite different from Python.

Ginger Industries

13:17

maybe C#?

of the C-type languages it feels like the easiest to use

Wheat Wizard

If you want some OOP monstrosity use Kotlin instead of C#.

Kotlin is more modern than C#.

Razetime

@GingerIndustries your closest bet would be rust, i think?

but rust doesn't enforce indentation

Ginger Industries

@Razetime but C# is also what Unity uses, and I've been intending to make a Unity game

seems like C# wins

Wheat Wizard

Rust is pretty different from python.

Razetime

yeah i doubt there's a compiled lookalike of python

PyGamer0

13:19

rust is more like c++ but not quite

Ginger Industries

my decision has been made, thanks for the advice yall

time to learn C# it seems

Wheat Wizard

If you are going to put the effort into making your language compiled you probably would make sure it's not as bad as Python.

PyGamer0

imo C# is almost Java

Ginger Industries

@WheatWizard what did Python do to you?

@PyGamer0 which I also know! (at least somewhat)

PyGamer0

@GingerIndustries then C# should be easy to learn

Wheat Wizard

13:21

Python is a very poor programming language. My list of issues with it is long.

Ginger Industries

@WheatWizard ;-;

PyGamer0

@WheatWizard do you have a list cause i would like to see it

i also have some issues with python

Ginger Industries

@WheatWizard I'd love to fight you over that but I have a language to learn

Python ain't perfect but it's sure better than C and co.

PyGamer0

@GingerIndustries my main language is python

@GingerIndustries APL is better :P

Wheat Wizard

Python's number one issue is that it doesn't have a sensible type system. The types in Python are very much just ad-hoc nonsense + dynamic typing and it leads to problems.

Ginger Industries

13:23

@PyGamer0 but APOL is best ꟼ:

PyGamer0

python has a large userbase

maybe Julia?

Wheat Wizard

I mean dynamic typing on it's own is bad enough but Python's dynamic typing is a complete unplanned mess.

Ginger Industries

@WheatWizard the only problem I can think of off the top of my head is that dynamic typing means that some errors can't be caught until runtime

Wheat Wizard

That is the problem with dynamic typing, but it's also basically the definition of dynamic typing.

Ginger Industries

@WheatWizard I can't figure out why that alone ruins python? If an error comes up then you can just fix it. Sure, this makes python unfit for, say, car computers and other stuff where a crash could have large consequences, but nobody was using it for that anyway

Wheat Wizard

13:26

Oh they do.

PyGamer0

i like dynamic typing

Wheat Wizard

Static typing just saves developer effort.

Ginger Industries

@WheatWizard then they're dumbasses. That is the one use case where you should use static-typed languages

PyGamer0

> a long list of issues

Ginger Industries

@PyGamer0 i can't even think of a witty comment to put here

Wheat Wizard

13:28

If you are building any serious code it should be statically typed. Dynamic typing is convenient when the size is really small but it just becomes a liability and time waster once the project reaches any size.

Ginger Industries

see also: MicroPython and CircuitPython, which are super cool

PyGamer0

@WheatWizard i guess i agree with this

@GingerIndustries i have never heard of circuitpython, i used micropython ONCE

Ginger Industries

@PyGamer0 CircuitPython is a MicroPython derivative made by Adafruit, whose microcontrollers I have lots of

it's super cool and a great way to try out microcontrollers and hardware stuff

PyGamer0

wha thats the same thing

@GingerIndustries i guess C or C++ is better for actual projects

Wheat Wizard

Writing micro controllers in C++ is pain.

PyGamer0

13:32

i have an ESP and an Uno (Arduino Uno)

Ginger Industries

@WheatWizard exactly

PyGamer0

does speed really matter in programming now?

cause processors are getting faster

Wheat Wizard

C is unfortunately the best option for a micro-controller if you don't want to write machine code directly.

PyGamer0

@WheatWizard why?

Ginger Industries

@PyGamer0 in some cases yes but for the casual coder likely not

Wheat Wizard

13:35

Because C++ is a big bulky mess. It's way too much for a micro-controller.

PyGamer0

makes sense

Wheat Wizard

I wonder if people are using ATS for micro-controllers.

PyGamer0

ATS?

Wheat Wizard

ATS should have performance comparable to C and would actually be nice to program in.

ATS (programming language)

ATS (Applied Type System) is a programming language designed to unify programming with formal specification. ATS has support for combining theorem proving with practical programming through the use of advanced type systems. A past version of The Computer Language Benchmarks Game has demonstrated that the performance of ATS is comparable to that of the C and C++ programming languages. By using theorem proving and strict type checking, the compiler can detect and prove that its implemented functions are not susceptible to bugs such as division by zero, memory leaks, buffer overflow, and other...

PyGamer0

multi paradigm!

mathcat

13:43

@lyxal wow I didn't know that

PyGamer0

imperative is the normal paradigm right? (python, c, c++, rust, lua, java)

> The English totally defeated the French

^ that is the answer to a question about a poem

^ that sounds sarcastic lol

Wheat Wizard

Imperative is a very broad umbrella paradigm encompassing many things.

Ginger Industries

Problem: replit uses Linux servers but I need Windows to develop SSI, any ideas?

PyGamer0

@GingerIndustries switch to Linux

Razetime

you need a copy of windows

so get one

Ginger Industries

13:49

this is a GUI application, not sure how to do GUIs with C# on Linux

time for google

Razetime

i highly recommend doing any serious dev outside of replit

Ginger Industries

@Razetime I'd love to but because reasons I can't rn

I do not currently have access to my dev PC (which has Windows)

mathcat

@GingerIndustries I didn't exactly understand SSI

New Posts

0

Q: Find my other token (Cops)

Robbers thread (no link because i literally just posted this) Cops, Choose two strings of code, one public and one secret. We will call them P and S. You will be writing a program using only repetitions of these strings. For example: if you choose P=helloand S=world, valid programs would be hello...

cops-and-robbers

Ginger Industries

@mathcat SSI (Super Simple Installer) is my latest project

it's an easy way to make an installer for another program, you just give it a .json file with config data and it makes a .exe for you

Wheat Wizard

13:52

Anything that starts with "Super simple" is suspicious to me.

Ginger Industries

@WheatWizard Super Duper Simple Installer?

mathcat

@GingerIndustries doesn't pyinstaller do exactly that?

Ginger Industries

@mathcat Problems: There are stupid people on the internet

mathcat

like me, go on

Ginger Industries

SSI is just a way to download, extract, and setup other programs, regardless of language

bc I can't actually do any dev work rn, I'm going to work on the JSON config format docs

mathcat

13:53

ooh nice

PyGamer0

@GingerIndustries what is the implementation language?

New Posts

0

Q: Find my other token (Robbers)

Cops thread Robbers, Write a program in the cop's language using the cop's P string and your own S string, and the amount of each of them specified in the cop's post. Your S string may not exceed the cop's S string in bytes. The program Using only strings P and S, write a program which takes a l...

cops-and-robbers

Ginger Industries

@PyGamer0 C#

PyGamer0

also i am making fractions in C++ for fun

thejonymyster

whew first cnr lets hope it doesnt Suck !

@PyGamer0 fractions seem like a really fun type(?) to have

do any serious langs (golfing langs included) have fractions as a type by default?

Razetime

13:58

Husk, Stax

thejonymyster

nice :)

Razetime

M

PyGamer0

!!/run 1 3/

Vyxal Bot

@PyGamer0 1/3

PyGamer0

is sympy counted?

thejonymyster

13:59

apl would seem like itd have it, in all of its Elegance i'd imagine itd prefer fractions over something impure like a Decimal

PyGamer0

no

probably

Transcript for