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12:00 AM
@user nah it's just being moved back to Vyxal chat
bye, bot
!!/run `o/
@DLosc o/
!!/run ⁽NÞ↑ - [123, 23]
[@Nitrodon: 60199134]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/Vyxal/mysite/vyxal/main.py", line 147, in execute_vyxal
    exec(code, locals() | globals())
  File "<string>", line 21, in <module>
  File "/home/Vyxal/mysite/vyxal/elements.py", line 2048, in max_by_function
    for item in biggest[1:]:
TypeError: 'int' object is not subscriptable
12:02 AM
(pssst @hyper-neutrino move the bot)
That's officially the end of Vyxal as LYAl, so I'll be unpinning the messages, but feel free to keep discussing it, either in here, or in the Vyxal chat
I'll let HN unpin the bot instructions once he's moved the bot out of here
Also, I ask that you don't use the bot here anymore
Even though it's still responding, we technically don't have permission for it to be used lol
@lyxal 8 bytes
I think its fine to keep using the bot while its here, but once it leaves, please don't try to keep using it
@DLosc Although it seems to me that is giving the last input rather than the first
12:06 AM
@DLosc that's also my fault - the documentation may be a little confusing or incorrect at times
Sorry about that.
Is this the intended behavior?
@DLosc by the current definition of the element, I think so
But that'll be addressed when the bot services vyxal chat again
Because I am so missing it's github capabilities
What about this behavior?
You're trying to split a single character into groups of 3
I'd say it is
/ behaviour can be a bit jank
Looks like the behavior for longer strings is "Split into at least N equal-sized groups."
So if the string doesn't have at least N characters, it's impossible, and so Vyxal gives up and returns an empty list instead
IMO it would be better to have it return n pieces no matter what
I.e padding with empty strings
That was the most active LYAL I've attended.
12:15 AM
I think it's the most active LYAL of all time
> 7k this week
A lot of that was from the lyxal, too
> 2.3k
Err...the lyxal
Um...the lyal
And I still typed an x that time but remembered to delete it :p
I am the lyxal
Goo goo ga joob
12:16 AM
Let's just swap their names to avoid confusion
I swear I had nothing to do with the naming of the event
I'm considering writing my upcoming golfing language in C lol
Somebody convince me this is a bad idea
Are you planning on having type overloads?
And are you planning on staying out of the nearest mental asylum?
Then don't use C
Use Scala
Scala is cool
Seems like a struct containing a type and a pointer would work well enough for type overloading, right?
@taRadvylfsriksushilani Are you planning on having unbounded integers?
Yeah, but there's libraries for that
And are you planning on having garbage collection?
12:20 AM
Not sure, because that's too low level of a detail for me to be used to thinking about with a golfing language lol
> too low level of a detail for me to be used to thinking about
Don't use C then :P
2 separate users with the same conclusion
What more do you want redwolf?
(Unless, of course, you want to learn about how to implement all the low level stuff, in which case more power to you and I'll look forward to seeing your new golflang in 2024.)
This is honestly just convincing me even more
I might need some sleep or something
Taking bets on when redwolf finishes
12:24 AM
Oh it'll also probably have lazy lists and first class functions, but no worries, that can't be too hard right?
... In c
@emanresuA history does have a tendency to repeat itself :p
(Honestly, the way I write code in JS is surprisingly portable to a lower level paradigm)
Arrays being a fixed length is probably going to be the thing that takes me the most getting used to
Is there a special chat for trying to represent big numbers, or should I just put it in the nineteenth byte?
@taRadvylfsriksushilani Here's a simple Lisp implementation in C. It apparently includes a garbage collector. Might interest you to look over it.
12:27 AM
Apr 21 '21 at 12:44, by Lyxal
Alright everyone bets are open on the amount of work Redwolf will do on ash today. Will it be much, will it be none at all? No one knows!
@BgilMidol I think here's fine
Probably still going to go with JS for practical reasons, I guess. Although I'll already have RTO, so it won't matter too much, I'd still like to have an offline browser-based interpreter, and JS is the most practical way to do that
Or rust
alright, the bot is no longer watching this room
12:31 AM
Just kick it
if you want to continue learning vyxal and using the bot, check out the chat room


For discussion about Vyxal. Repo: github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal | Org: ...
@emanresuA that pings ppl tho. i'll just log in and leave
Hm it left at the same time as dlosc
Vyxal bot is dlosc confirmed
(Fun fact: I think the reason people tend to leave in groups is that chat only pings at a certain interval, and it does it for everyone simultaneously)
12:42 AM
I have this:
def f(n):
    if n < 2:
        return n
        res = 2
        for d in range(1, n-1):
            for inc in range(d, d**2+1):
                res **= f(n-d) ** f(n-d+inc)
        return res
Input 1 and 2 are 1 and 2, but three results in a recursion error.
How would I approximate the value of f(3)?
@emanresuA Process finished with exit code -1073741571 (0xC00000FD) (Pycharm)
Hold on, doing it manyally
It calculates f(4) at one point
So will never terminate
I thinkl
the energy of this chatroom is the same energy as this tumblr post
@emanresuA "manyally"
1:00 AM
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Minimal Randomness, Expand a Rubik's Cube Commutator
@taRadvylfsriksushilani Try a tagged union
@taRadvylfsriksushilani You're going to spend more time wrangling with C than working on the actual language. I'd recommend prototyping it in a nicer language first (JS for you, probably), then porting it to C
If you really want to go to a lower level language, why not try something like D (which has a GC) first?
@GingerIndustries Never gonna give you up
you lose.
@user (disclaimer: I have barely any experience working with C, but mostly because it was too hard for me. Tried making a language in C++ too and I spent a week just trying to get the parser's method stubs to compile)
what is that flag
I think Challenge of the month is good.
1:08 AM
Can I propose I language to lyal or lotm when it only has a unfinished tokenizer?
@taRadvylfsriksushilani DLosc's right, if you don't want to worry about a GC, don't use C. There are garbage collectors for C, but still, it's going to be a pain
@BgilMidol no
@BgilMidol I'd recommend holding off until you have a little more
LYAL and LotM aren't going away anytime soon, so you can just keep working on it
if enough people are developing languages it's possible to rework one of our events (or just add more) dedicated to lang dev or specifically providing feedback for one language that's functional enough for testing / revising but not completed yet
we'd need a lot of in-dev languages though and i don't think that's happening any time soon
Challenge of the month is good, then i wanted to post.
1:12 AM
I mean we could definitely dedicate one week to language dev instead of learning a language
I think most of us here would be okay with that if the (specification for the) language in question were interesting enough
Q: Challenge of the Month?

FmbalbuenaI think Challenge Of the month is good Can I Start Challenge of the Month? Can I post the nominations of the Challenge of the Month? I think this will be going good, but is there any problems? Why I can/can't start Challenge of the Month? What happens if I start Challenge of the Month? Can...

Why Close votes?
I will try to clarify the question
Really done
what would challenge of the month entail
@thejonymyster hard challenges
why not just have a hard challenge
why does it have to be of a month
1:25 AM
because every X of the month is hard, And X of the day is easy.
what im saying is what do you gain by affixing a month to a challenge
what happens in this timespan
is there a deadline?
@thejonymyster No
@thejonymyster Nothing just for fun
during language of the month, people are encouraged to use a language more during that month
you cant exactly do one challenge more for a month
@thejonymyster Then... I delete this post?
maybe rephrase it to be asking for ideas for language of the month, or suggest some and see what other people would want to add
1:30 AM
@thejonymyster added
hopefully someone with more ideas than me can come up with something cool
1:44 AM
@hyper-neutrino Reopen?
VyCMC: print "`"
is this sandbox too dumb or is it just getting tl;dr'd? i can respect that either way i just need to know whether i should bother or if i should move on
@hyper-neutrino Could you unfreeze Make you a TIO Clone for Great Good? Thanks!
antifreeze bot when
I was just thinking about making one lol
Maybe an additional feature for NP/SP once I get NPSP 2.0 running
please reduce your fractions whats np/sp
1:55 AM
New Posts and Sandbox Posts
makes sense
Well, posting anything by a bot (not a feed but technically an SE user) will cause an antifreeze, no?
@taRadvylfsriksushilani If you do this, their antifreeze messages have to contain "Butter"
Maybe it can do rooms tagged with
I'd probably just add a room called like, NPSP C2, and you can just do something like !antifrz [room id]
Requiring a tag be added to rooms that want antifreezing would just be annoying
2:01 AM
I'll probably make it like a fortune cookie, where it'll pick a random humorous bot- or freezing-related message to post
makyen has an anti-freeze bot already
it's a bit more active than necessary technically
also it just says !freeze lol
So that's why
@taRadvylfsriksushilani speaking of TIO clones, I was just out and I happened to drive past a place which had a sign saying "RTO department"
Since when are you hiring a department at a mining management site?
Ah, you found our embassy.
2:09 AM
It's fitting that it was across the road from a golf course then
RTO actually stands for Redwolf is Taking over Oceania
For some reason I interpreted it as "Room the Owner" for a marginal second
We use that mine to collect Uranium
@taRadvylfsriksushilani dumbass it's a management site, not an actual mine
We obviously can't (R)TO without a sizeable nuclear arsenal
@lyxal All management companies are secretly mines
2:11 AM
No uranium allowed here or we'll nuke you
Have you ever been inside a management company that doesn't have a mineshaft hidden in the elevator? Probably not.
Also, I think the fractional byte count thing has enough of a vote difference that we can safely assume fractional byte counts are allowed for both functions and full programs
Any language that take a bitstream as program and hard to pad up?
@taRadvylfsriksushilani that implies you managed to find uranium in Eastern NSW
IIRC the uranium is only in the centre of Australia
Binary Lambda Calculus code is a bit stream that can have any bit length, but it is easy to determine the end of the stream because it has prefix syntax
but if you take the Godel encoding of lambda calculus term instead and encode the integer to binary, padding will result in a different program
@lyxal We have a really long tunnel
2:19 AM
We have to disallow 0.17263 byte or something but do we allow 0.125 byte?
Putting the embassy/mining operation in central australia would be pointless because we'll be surrounded once we try to overthrow the government
@l4m2 Actually, I think fractional numbers of bits are also allowed now
@l4m2 This answer says to allow any nonnegative real number of bytes
But that's pretty meaningless, since I don't think 0.17263 bits is something you can actually meaningfully achieve
So there exist language that solve anything in <1 byte?
Basically yeah, but we already have that. This is just another out of like ten boring ways to get a trivially low score.
2:21 AM
The half byte languages can surely do some tasks in 1/2 bytes
@taRadvylfsriksushilani Which is basically zero cost, but comes with the advantage of allowing trit-based languages and half-byte code pages
@Bubbler Yeah, but I think what they meant was using the byte count to encode the program
Oh, so do all tasks in <1 byte?
Like, input a "0.12183881838292948 byte program", with that byte count being some sort of algebraic encoding
Personally I actually think that's the opposite of a disadvantage; it sounds super awesome
Surely possible in theory, yeah
Of course, you have to write the OS along with it that can handle arbitrary rationals as file sizes if you actually want to use it :p
And since we score per-language, it wouldn't matter that that's an option for language designers, since I doubt anyone will be comparing Jelly and RationalByteCountScript (unlike, say, Jelly and Japt or Jelly and Vyxal)
2:24 AM
I don't really see a flag-debate type scenario with this, so all it really can do is give us more interesting options
and by using wonky byte counts it is automatically rejected by the golfiness rating script :P
this is just lenguage but really weird
Yeah, I'll have to patch mine to support fractional byte counts I guess
And probably some basic code and mathjax stuff, since trit-based languages would be, e.g., log2(3) bits
The new ruling affects CP-1610 answers btw (I think they were rounded up to the next bytes before)
2:31 AM
It also affects Risky/HBL/nibbles, should I go through the Risky answers over the next few days and fix those?
(I know that with Risky, at least, functions are written with syntax identical to functions/snippets, so even with the old rules I don't even think it would've required the padding)
Fix the script first or the posts first? :P
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

E. Z. L.Regex ordinals Inspired by this xkcd comic, your job is to write an extremely meta regex. Specifically, the depth of a regex is an ordinal defined as follows: regex golf has depth 0. meta-x has depth 1 greater than the depth of x. The depth of <regex> is the supremum of the depths of everything <...

On second thought, you can't really get infinitely many different programs with under 1 byte if we assume a storage media with discrete units.
A bit, a trit, ... has information density of 1 bit, log3/log2 bits, ... so having a cell that can store > 256 states will cost more than a byte
Abusing them all will surely grow the number of programs under X bytes drastically, but not outright infinitely
3:59 AM
The important thing is, that languages no-longer have to compete at the Byte just because most of our hardware uses bytes. Non-byte languages, or languages that operate on non-byte hardware, are now allowed to compete at their full strength.
4:22 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

emanresu AFully sort a matrix Given a multidimensional array of nonnegative integers, sort it at every depth (lexographically), starting from the innermost. For example, with this array: [ [ [5, 1, 4], [10, 7, 21] ], [ [9, 20, 2], [4, 2, 19] ] ] You'd sort at the deepest first: [ [ [1, 4, 5], ...

in Vyxal, 13 mins ago, by emanresu A
Cursed idea: Have a 255-byte codepage so where we normally would tie, we score slightly less
@emanresuA I don't think that's how codepages work
2 hours ago, by Bubbler
A bit, a trit, ... has information density of 1 bit, log3/log2 bits, ... so having a cell that can store > 256 states will cost more than a byte
So having a cell that can store less than 256 states will cost less than a byte
4:57 AM
-0.006 bytes thanks to @emanresuA
Oops, that actually pinged you
@taRadvylfsriksushilani Lol'
5:24 AM
hmm, I'm not sure that Charcoal uses all of its 256 code page entries... might need to recalculate all of my byte counts in that case...
5:43 AM
Although this opens up more possibilities for arguably "unsportspersonlike" language design, I think we've already had this for a while. The fact that there are no major golfing languages with any sort of huffman/arithemtic coding or compression indicates to me that this isn't something we really need to be concerned about
Charcoal almost never ties though
6:03 AM
@taRadvylfsriksushilani stax and arn are the only two languages with source compression that I know of
So you might be right there
But having said that, I don't think source compression is unsportsmanlike
It's no different to placing your program into a string, using string compression and then execing the string in a normal language
Sure I think that it feels a little unsatisfying not having direct character-to-command correspondence but I still respect source compression languages
Thank you Samsung very cool
Someone forgot to call format on the string
Never thought I'd see an unformatted string in the wild
Uh oh, Samsung's written in Python
6:19 AM
oh. Shows how little I know
Btw both pinned messages can probably be unpinned]
4 hours ago, by ta Radvylf srik su shilani
Also, I think the fractional byte count thing has enough of a vote difference that we can safely assume fractional byte counts are allowed for both functions and full programs
@hyper-neutrino i'
@lyxal r/softwaregore
d also hope not since python % formatting is some or another variety of deprecated
oh is it?
eh yeah .format and fstrings are way better anyway
6:23 AM
in favor of .format() and f-strings and such
@emanresuA or C
i'd assume the gore is from a c family printf
@UnrelatedString the what
anyway isn't android written in java tho?
oh yeah
wait isn't it like
a weird mix
6:25 AM
android is linux so i guess C + Java + Magic
Java likes to famously remind that Android is "Written in Java"
like the bulk of it is java but the kernel and some stuff right on top of it is c
But considering the ARM chips don't natively run JVM
It, by nature, cannot be only Java.
hm so C is the glue layer so Java can run on top of it
java bytecode chip when
6:26 AM
i c. yeah i meant like, the majority of the android os itself is java, ignoring any layers below it necessary to run it since java isn't the lowest level
Which one? There's been like, 6 JVM chips
@UnrelatedString when java stops being an esolang
None of them good, obviously.
lets make one in minecraft
6:27 AM
recursive implementation
Now a Lua Bytecode Chip, That's one with some Pizaaz!
lua in minecraft does not sound bad
@PyGamer0 Boy do I have a mod or two for you!
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

emanresu AAnimate finding the middle (hypercube edition) Given a multidimensional array of integers where all dimensions are the same, animate finding the centre of it. Simply output the array, then remove the first and last items of every array within it and output it, until it has less than 3 elements le...

no mods only pure redstone
6:33 AM
F e a r

 The Nineteenth Processor

A room to plan and create The Nineteenth Processor, a redstone...
^ is that dead already lol
Happens to the best projects.
Not apparently Tetris in GOL though
we should really make a computer in minecraft
16 bit high speed computer
and do fizzbuzz in that computer
If by High-speed you mean 1Hz, maybe.
6:47 AM
@ATaco i mean 60 Hz
to achieve that speed we should make our own minecraft implementation
@hyper-neutrino probably
Idk what wearos 3 is written in
@lyxal its written in wearis 2
wear implementation system 2
7:41 AM
Q: Interpret DOGO!

user53406Interpret DOGO DOGO is a lesser known programming language. While the original DOGO (a joke language from a Usenet post) has never been implemented, a language resembling it has been created. The commands for the language are: +===========+=======================================================...

literally brainfuck?
Q: Cell Evolution Matrix

DialFrostYour lab needed to simulate how a particular cell evolves over time in a 2D grid space. A sample 2D grid space below shows a single cell at the centre of the grid. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 The cell evolution follows these rules: '0' indicates no live cell A positive num...

@Razetime yes
Its esolangs article has it tagged as brainfrick equivalent
except that it doesn't have [] I think
@Bubbler looks like it does to me
Sit / Stay
7:51 AM
tbh my challenge is a rly long one if u want to code it out
unless u have an algorithm that can easily solve this in fewer byets lol
i am attempting it
I can't read lol
argh i cant find a relation to the middle of the matrix to the x, y coords
ill do it on pen and paper
8:17 AM
hmm my code works when its ungolfed when i start to golf it it doesnt work
ok nvrm i fixed it
8:40 AM
er guys i got a problem
the result is infinite if s>=5
do i edit the qns to js say print the first 100 if infinite
@DLosc It does work if you add a . after the +₁
But that would be the same byte count
@DialFrost I guess you can modify it to a sequence-like challenge, e.g. given n, output nth generation or first n generations
hmm thats a good idea!
although im not sure
shld i change it to be sequene-challenge, or allow the qns to change according to anttip, or my own
if i follow my own
the result is infinite
8:58 AM
Infinite output itself makes many language lose some output options (such as returning a list that is infinite), so I think it's better to allow (or change to) alternatives
9:53 AM
The call for categories is approaching 3 weeks old and we haven't had a new proposal in 5 days. I think it's time for this egg to hatch and start the call for nominations. Anyone have any reason to oppose?
er quick qns how do i reduce this to a one-liner possibly using list comprehension
for i in range(1,z):
for j in range(1,z):
if m[i][j]>5:m[i][j]=0\
@Bubbler or output the next generation given the current generation as a matrix
10:10 AM
@DialFrost Probably start from m2=[[(m[i][j]<6)*m[i][j]for j in range(1,z)]for i in range(1,z)]
Q: Best of CGCC 2021 - Now Accepting Nominations!

Wheat WizardWe have decided the categories for the "Best of CGCC 2021". We're going to go with all 22 nominated categories as users have offered upwards of \$15000\$ rep, so we can include all positively scoring categories. How this will work: I will post 22 Community Wiki answers to this question, one for e...

10:27 AM
I really hate this 60 second slow down on posting answers.
It means it's going to take half an hour to copy all the noms over.
my version of rickblock: pxeger.com/userscripts/rickblock.js
10:43 AM
@pxeger Could you maybe write more information in your nominations? Take a look at last year's post there are nice descriptions and full sections. If you really think something is worthy of winning you should be able to take the time and write a little bit about why.
ah ok
I was copying the format of the voting comments
Also you should probably choose a specific post for rookie of the year.
Gives people who aren't familiar something to look at.
I was gonna nominate specifically Implement Minceraft, but I thought maybe since it wasn't actually their first challenge it wouldn't work, so I nominated them generally
I'll add that in too.
11:24 AM
I just voted to close the Call for Categories as a dupe of the Nominations post like we've done in the past
But I forgot that I posted the Call for Categories
And at no point while closing did it inform me that I was closing my own question, until just now I got a notification
"A community member has suggested a similar question that may solve your problem"
and now it asks me if the dupe, which I voted for, is correct
What is
> (Private feedback for you)
supposed to mean?
11:48 AM
@pxeger It's only shown to you
It makes it sound like the answer I choose on the popup will only be shown to me
(in which case, what would be the point?)
@WheatWizard Should the Best of Nominations post be featured?
12:13 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

AZTECCOShangai ascii game code-golfascii-artpathfinding Remove one stick and output the stack updated. #Description You can remove only sticks on top. You can assume there's one and only one stick you can remove. Sticks are 5 chars long and are placed vertically or horizontally. Here is how they are dra...

12:51 PM
i know this is not cs se
but i just want to ask
how to find three points in a lot of points
that the radius of the circle their on is larger than
any other three points
(I know my phrasing is very very unprofessional)
i mean fastest complexity

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