The Nineteenth Byte

Fmbalbuena

1:00 AM

Give up

@WheatWizard Können Sie deutsch? weil du in deutsch lebst.

Aaroneous Miller

@lyxal I’ve got a cheaty 4 byter

lyxal

@AaroneousMiller if it uses K then it isn't cheating

Aaroneous Miller

It doesn’t

lyxal

Oh

You're a nerd then.

Aaroneous Miller

lol tru dat

emanresu A

1:09 AM

I have 3 with K

lyxal

see what I mean?

Nitrodon

This LYAL seems more active than usual.

Aaroneous Miller

We’ve been prepping for a while

caird coinheringaahing

And Vyxal has an active userbase, unlike most other languages in LYAL

lyxal

@AaroneousMiller Yeah, we've had a planning team for a month now too lol

emanresu A

1:11 AM

I also have 4 bytes without K

Nitrodon

so, how do I go about learning me a lang for great good today?

lyxal

!!/info

Vyxal Bot

Aaroneous Miller

@lyxal my cheaty 4 byte:

lyxal

@Nitrodon If you prefer self paced learning I'd recommend the tutorial and vyxapedia

Aaroneous Miller

1:12 AM

!!/run ⁺∴CĖ _ 5

Vyxal Bot

@AaroneousMiller 1

lyxal

@Nitrodon But I'd be more than happy to teach you here if you want

@AaroneousMiller wow. What a nerd.

That's a very roundabout way to do it lol

Aaroneous Miller

lol

emanresu A

I have a non-cheaty 4 bytes: md5 is 37ecd4dd908477411f9b96483cc53370

lyxal

My md5 for a 4 byter is cb099b99f56959c6c9b2138c3ad5089f

Nitrodon

1:14 AM

and what if my keyboard doesn't have most of those characters?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Aaroneous Miller

The online interpreter has an on screen keyboard you can use to insert characters

lyxal

@Nitrodon abrudz.github.io/lb/vyxal has got you covered

Aaroneous Miller

That too

lyxal

It's an on screen keyboard that can be used anywhere

Anywhere being any website that supports js

Aaroneous Miller

@lyxal 404

lyxal

1:16 AM

@AaroneousMiller it's actually case sensitive? Wow.

Aaroneous Miller

Idk maybe it’s cause I’m on mobile or smth

lyxal

No I get the 404 too when the link has upper-case v

Aaroneous Miller

Oh, well ok then

lyxal

It works with a lower case v

Aaroneous Miller

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

lyxal

1:18 AM

Hence my surprise at it 404ing

Anyhow, that's enough for the trivial, always asked cmcs

Now for the real fun

VyMC: Given a single positive integer n, return a centred pyramid of asterisks with an increasing odd number of asterisks on each line.

Nitrodon

I think I'm just lost.

Aaroneous Miller

I assume a pyramid of height n?

lyxal

@AaroneousMiller correct

@Nitrodon I can help you become not lost

First question: do you know how stacks work?

I'm not being sarcastic or condescending I'm asking so I know where to start with teaching

Nitrodon

I've done several Brain-Flak golfs, so I'll have to say yes to that.

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal Vyxal, 8 bytes: (Try It Online!)

lyxal

1:22 AM

Good, good

hyper-neutrino

with flags, Vyxal C, 5 bytes: (Try It Online!)

lyxal

@Nitrodon and have you used any other dedicated golfing languages?

Nitrodon

no

lyxal

alright then, let's get started

so the first thing to know about vyxal is that it is stack based

things are pushed and popped to get stuff done

to push a number to the stack, you just write that number:

!!/run 4W

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal ⟨ 4 ⟩

lyxal

1:24 AM

(the W just displays the entire stack)

!!/run 3 90 23.45 85 12321W

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal ⟨ 3 | 90 | 469/20 | 85 | 12321 ⟩

lyxal

Decimals are represented as fractions in Vyxal, hence why 23.45 turned into 469/20

emanresu A

@Nitrodon Hm, I had this which would be 7 if vectorised printing worked

Nitrodon

!!/run 3 5 7+W

Vyxal Bot

@Nitrodon !!/run `code` `flags (- to exclude)` `input line` `input line` ...

emanresu A

1:25 AM

@lyxal Was that intentional?

lyxal

@emanresuA surprisingly not

@Nitrodon ah, make sure to wrap your code in backticks

Nitrodon

!!/run 3 5 7+W

Vyxal Bot

@Nitrodon ⟨ 3 | 12 ⟩

lyxal

good

as you can probably guess, the + took the top two items on the stack and added them

Nitrodon

yes, I skimmed the tutorial.

lyxal

1:26 AM

oh, right.

Aaroneous Miller

@hyper-neutrino I’ve got 4 bytes, and a different 8 byte flagless

lyxal

cool cool

continuing on, Vyxal also has strings

A string is any chunk of text wrapped in backticks

E.g.

Nitrodon

How do I type strings in !!/run?

I'm already backticking there.

user

But if you want a single character string, you can do \c where c is any character

@Nitrodon Escape backticks with backslashes

lyxal

@Nitrodon backslash then backtick

emanresu A

1:27 AM

@AaroneousMiller Is your 4's md5 3b72325800f76d662eec8fc679b161ac

caird coinheringaahing

`\`string\` more code`

user

Yeah MD doesn't play well with backticked strings

caird coinheringaahing

will push string, then run more code

lyxal

`\`Hello, World!\``

Nitrodon

!!/run `Hello world! `2*

Vyxal Bot

1:28 AM

@Nitrodon Hello world! Hello world!

emanresu A

There's also dictionary compression with øD

!!/run `Hello world!`øD

Aaroneous Miller

@emanresuA No, I’ve got 7ca6018c32fd897d629df67256f00dad

Vyxal Bot

@emanresuA `ƈṡ ƛ†!`

lyxal

but we'll cover string compression a little later

for now, just the basics

@Nitrodon I take it you read about structures such as if-statements and loops in the tutorial

So I'll briefly outline them

[<onTrue>|<onFalse>] pops the top of the stack and executes <onTrue> if the value is considered truthy

otherwise, it executes <onFalse> if it's given

Nitrodon

The for loop part of the tutorial mentions variables, but I'm not sure how to use those in Vyxal.

lyxal

1:31 AM

→name places the top of the stack into a variable called name

←name retrieves the value of name

→name is equivalent to name = stack.pop()

←name is equivalent to stack.append(name)

variable names can contain letters and underscores

variable names can also be empty

an empty variable name is what is referred to as the "ghost" variable

because it can store things, but it doesn't have a name

!!/run 3→6←+

Vyxal Bot

@lyxal 9

lyxal

that puts 3 into the ghost variable, pushes 6, retrieves the value of the ghost variable and adds those two values

so something like (x|<body>) is like writing:

emanresu A

underscore prefixed variables are global

Nitrodon

Is there a reason for the "temp" variable in the tutorial part where it swaps a and b? Why not just ←a ←b →a →b?

lyxal

for x in <iterable>:
    <body>

emanresu A

1:34 AM

@Nitrodon Idk where it says that, but you smart

Nitrodon

Pretty much the last (currently existing) part of the tutorial.

lyxal

@Nitrodon that's to demonstrate variables to people familiar with C style languages

but you're right, temp isn't needed

Nitrodon

so the first part of the for loop is a variable name?

lyxal

@Nitrodon if given, yes.

Nitrodon

and it assumes the top of the stack is a list? What if it's not?

(I don't even know how to create a list yet.)

emanresu A

1:37 AM

@Nitrodon With a string, over the characters.

With an integer, over 0...n-1

With a fraction or complex number it errors though

lyxal

@emanresuA actually, it's 1...n

Nitrodon

What about a negative integer?

emanresu A

!!/run 5N(n,

Vyxal Bot

@emanresuA 0

emanresu A

@Nitrodon Does nothing, it appears

lyxal

1:39 AM

@Nitrodon currently it just doesn't do anything because it's iterating over range(0, -N)

which doesn't actually yield anything

that's a bug we'll have to fix

Nitrodon

!!/run 5(n)W

Vyxal Bot

@Nitrodon ⟨ 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 ⟩

lyxal

Ah, you've found the context variable

good

Nitrodon

What's the context variable?

lyxal

it's what gets used if you don't provide a loop variable

n

it's also what refers to the argument(s) of lambdas and functions

emanresu A

1:40 AM

Correction: Whether you provide one or not

Nitrodon

!!/run 5(|←)W

Vyxal Bot

@Nitrodon ⟨ 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 ⟩

lyxal

that's using the ghost variable

n is called the context variable because its value relies on it's context

Nitrodon

!!/run 5(|←)← W

Vyxal Bot

@Nitrodon ⟨ 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 ⟩

lyxal

1:41 AM

By the way, you can use , to explicitly print things

right now, you've been using implicit printing to display things

implicit printing happens at the end of a program if nothing has been printed during execution

Nitrodon

so W pushes the entire stack then?

lyxal

essentially

Nitrodon

!!/run 1 2WW,

Vyxal Bot

@Nitrodon ⟨ 1 | ⟨ 1 | 2 ⟩ ⟩

lyxal

it wraps the stack into a sinlgle list

Nitrodon

1:43 AM

What happened to the 2? Did the first W pop it?

lyxal

there may be a few issues with W because of the way things are handled

Nitrodon

!!/run 1 2,,

Vyxal Bot

[@Nitrodon: 60189035]
2
1

Nitrodon

so , also outputs a newline then?

emanresu A

Yes

lyxal

1:44 AM

Correct

There's a few other printing commands that you can use

emanresu A

₴ prints without a newline

@Nitrodon What do you mean? The first W pushes [1,2] to the stack, which is now [1, [1, 2]], which gets pushed by the second W

Nitrodon

My question was basically "did the first W pop 2 from the stack?"

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA 1 2 makes the stack [1, 2]. W should then make it [1, 2, [1, 2]]

lyxal

As I said, due to a recent rewrite, there may be a few issues with how W works

Nitrodon

!!/help

Vyxal Bot

1:46 AM

@Nitrodon !!/run `code` `flags (- to exclude)` `input line` `input line` ...

Nitrodon

!!/info

Vyxal Bot

emanresu A

@Nitrodon Oh. I got confused too then

lyxal

I have to duck out to have lunch for a bit

@emanresuA are you good to continue teaching?

emanresu A

I can try

lyxal

1:48 AM

I believe in you

BRB in maybe 10 to 30 minutes

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal emanresu;s never gonna let you down

emanresu A

o/

VyMC: Given an integer n, print a pyramid of asterisks separated by spaces of height n

Nitrodon

!!/run 5:(:n-` `*n2*1-`*`*+,)

Vyxal Bot

[@Nitrodon: 60189065]
    *
   ***
  *****
 *******
*********

emanresu A

@Nitrodon Nice!

Nitrodon

1:51 AM

I think that was for the old challenge.

emanresu A

Still, nice job tho

Few things you can do to golf it down:

Nitrodon

‹ and d, for one

emanresu A

Yep

There are builtins for n spaces and an asterisk too.

Nitrodon

and wasn't there something about \\ for single characters?

I mean \, but I assumed chat would escape stuff

emanresu A

Yeah, but you don't need that here

@Nitrodon Chat markdown is weird

hyper-neutrino

1:53 AM

``\``

emanresu A

@emanresuA I pushes n spaces given n as an integer, and × pushes an asteriisk

caird coinheringaahing

I think it's backtick backslah backtick that's impossible to output in a single line chat message

Nitrodon

!!/run 5:(:n-ðnd‹×*,)`

Vyxal Bot

@Nitrodon !!/run `code` `flags (- to exclude)` `input line` `input line` ...

Nitrodon

... Did I forget the leading backtick? It was probably wrong anyway.

caird coinheringaahing

1:54 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing nope, it's something else

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing `\`

it's `\ that's impossible

Nitrodon

!!/run 5:(:n-ðnd‹×*,)

Vyxal Bot

[@Nitrodon: 60189092]
*
***
*****
*******
*********

emanresu A

Not quite

Nitrodon

!!/run 5:(:n-ðnd‹×*+,)

Vyxal Bot

1:55 AM

[@Nitrodon: 60189097]
 *
 ***
 *****
 *******
 *********

caird coinheringaahing

~~No, backslash backtick~~ I'm wrong

emanresu A

!!/run 5:(:n-Ind‹×*+,)

Vyxal Bot

[@emanresuA: 60189100]
    *
   ***
  *****
 *******
*********

Nitrodon

!!/run \a5ð\a++

Vyxal Bot

@Nitrodon 5 a

emanresu A

1:56 AM

ð pushes a single space

Nitrodon

oh right, ð is just a space

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Isn't it backtick backslash in code formatting that's impossible?

emanresu A

I pushes n spaces when given an integer

so yeah

Nitrodon

ah... I was confused

emanresu A

Three more things I can see to do:

Nitrodon

1:58 AM

!!/run 5:(:n-nd‹×꘍,)

Vyxal Bot

[@Nitrodon: 60189114]
 *
   *
     *
       *
         *

Nitrodon

I keep forgetting to put in commands.

emanresu A

Nice, you found ꘍!

Nitrodon

!!/run 5:(:n-nd‹×*꘍,)

Vyxal Bot

[@Nitrodon: 60189118]
    *
   ***
  *****
 *******
*********

hyper-neutrino

1:58 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing isn't that what i said lol

emanresu A

Two more things then

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino specifically in code formattingis what I specified :P "`\" is trivial to output :P

hyper-neutrino

yeah like, code formatting `\ in-line is impossible is what i meant

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