well maybe not fixed, but it's at least a little better now :)

@voretaq7 still about ?

@Iain I'm still not really sure we can answer it, but it's worth a second look. I think the guy is basically SOL unless he wants to roll his own Debian install disk with a custom kernel

@voretaq7 ay I wasn't asking about that

There is so much fail on the front page - I'm declaring today to be the start of the eternal weekend.

@Iain I haven't even seen the front page today - the internet at work was....

well let's say it declared today an early start of the weekend too

@voretaq7 that was yesterday

@Iain I haven't slept yet, it's still today ;P

@voretaq7 how's Aarthi btw ?

@Iain Good - we got pie! :-)

Everybody Loves Pie!

...fuck now I'm hungry and I want pie.

@voretaq7 great

@voretaq7 can you nuke this POS please serverfault.com/questions/565481/…, serverfault.com/questions/565487/… and

@JoelESalas I'm back!!!

@Iain yeah I already shot those two in the head

@voretaq7 and you got the other one too

"I think we use a Checkpoint firewall" -- well come back when you know

@voretaq7 exactly - hence my comment

what the fuck do people think, we have one of those Sauron seeing-eye-orbs in their environment?

must...stab...*someone*

@Iain - Lovely. Pouring another whiskey.

and now his question gets locked

because "don't be a fucking cuntwaffle it's 2:30 and all I want to do is watch my fucking Almost Human and not deal with amateurs who can't be bothered to even know what's running in their environment"

hashtag-#MeanMisterMod

why do they argue? Why don't they just go post on Meta (like the goddamn about and help pages say they should) so hey can receive a proper lecture and not make me want to punch my fist through their chest cavity?

I really need to go to the ring and do some sparring this week or I might actually kill someone

@voretaq7 get some sleep :)

> @user34694: No one can answer your question because you do not provide (or appear to know) critical information. Your knowledge and skills are clearly way below those required to do the job you have been given you are in desperate need of education that we cannot provide. Once you understand and address that you will be in a much better place to continue.

@Iain argon? Thats hardly noble.

@voretaq7 - It ain't work getting worked up over. The writing has been on the wall for some time.

@kce was going to be my final response

@kce I despise stupid

it's essentially ruining our entire profession

@voretaq7 and has specifically ruined SF

@voretaq7 - I mean... you're not wrong, but I just don't have your energy to stay angry

I think I'm just going to go back to school, get a Ph.D in English Literature, and teach.

but yeah SF is screwed

hm, I don't know enough about fiber to be sure but serverfault.com/a/565488/33193 looks like spam

@kce When I stop being angry it means I've stopped caring (you'll all know when that point is reached because I'll resign my diamond)

@kce actually it's probably not bad if your in the MS/Windows market - they have a cost to entry so don't get anywhere near so much fail

@voretaq7 - Fair enough.

@voretaq7 that's why I left to much anger/sadness

@Iain - I disagree there. I'm a Linux-guy in a Windows world and there's plenty of the same.

@JourneymanGeek yah, 2 identical posts with the same link. HOORAY - DESTROY USER

@voretaq7: KILL KILL KILLLLL

@Iain and there's no real thing as basic sysadmin training

and the average person seems to think if you can code, you can plan, manage and maintain shit

@JourneymanGeek And we was both jumpin' up and down yellin KILL kill KILL kill - then the sergeant come over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall and said "YOU'RE OUR BOY!"

@JourneymanGeek I specifically didn't say that

...now, where do I get my M14?

@voretaq7: actually, last time I did that, my bayonet got stuck in the tire I was stabbing and I fell backwards

@Iain: actually, thats something that bothers me ;p

@JourneymanGeek I don't use bayonets. If they got THAT close it's time for explosives.

@Iain from what my Windows-using colleagues tell me it's plenty bad on that side of the fence too

@voretaq7: we don't either, any more. I'm quite sure its the modern day equivilent of a cavalry charge.

they just call Microsoft to be stupid rather than post on SF

@JourneymanGeek yet it's still part of basic combat training in all of our ground forces

@Iain: I wasn't even considering the technical side of things. I was thinking the stuff I'm allegedly trained to do

@voretaq7 there doesn't appear to be as much of it. Mark and Ryan get decent questions to answer

@voretaq7: our shiny newer rifles are bullpups. Also, we're supposed to bash em with our butts.

I believe we're still using the M16 as our standard rifle

@voretaq7: the US? Yeah, and will be for the forseeable future

The real problem in my opinion is that the people that really contribute to SF (which is a very small part of its community) has very little influence in what compromises its scope. Consequently they respond with increasing hostility to those folks who are within the non-contributor view of what SF's scope is supposed to be. Then they turn around and say SF is full of jerks. Then the scope get widened and the contributors become more and more disenfranchised and respond accordingly.

(bear in mind I'm kind of drunk)

@JourneymanGeek I do not like the M16 :-/

I understand that in many ways it's superior to the M14, but it's just icky :-/

@voretaq7: neither do I. It does however have a few nice things - its a well understood common as fuck platform

@kce not an unreasonable summary of the scope wars

@JourneymanGeek So is the M14! :)

on the other hand, the SAR21 I trained with was slightly heavier but better balanced

@Iain - strava.com/activities/104149332

@voretaq7: oh, and the caliber wars.

@kce I think the problem is people who aren't professional system administrators want Server Fault to be their system administrator, for free.

@voretaq7 Like me!

You guys do all of my work.

smaller, higher velocity bullets that tumble or MOAR PENETRATION

and "No, Fuck No, Here Let Me Stab You With My Keyboard"

@ewwhite but you ask (and answer) coherent questions

@kce thats pretty close to what I see the problem as

@voretaq7 I learned Engrish good in school

The inevitable conclusion is the site loses its contributors because they get tired of being constantly referred to as jerks because they're defending the scope that makes those contributions to be possible. Once the site loses the "critical mass" of contributors it's just the blind leading the blind.

I don't mind doing research to solve someone's problem if the problem isn't "Herp Derp Firewall Blerp Kitteny-Poo?"

(also, I don't like asking questions until I have bashed my head over the keyboard to the point of near bleedery)

I mean, ServerFault convinced me to quite three jobs over the years.

@JourneymanGeek As it should be

@voretaq7 - Nah. That's easy VTC as out of scope. The problem is lots of folks think those kind of question should be in scope.

Server Fault should be your LAST resort for getting an answer, not your first

@voretaq7: I like the challenge, and research is fun

@ewwhite ooh turbo work - bummer

@voretaq7: I think that of much of the Q&A format

I'd rather read and answer than ask questions, so I obviously have a bias towards doing my own research

@JourneymanGeek I like asking questions, but they have to be questions I genuinely couldn't find the answer to

@voretaq7: precisely

@voretaq7 - Maybe. I think there is tremendous potential for SF in the Good Subjective category but the QA is definitely not for tech support.

and hopefully create something awesome out of it ;p

or a question that I've answered enough times that I want to Ask-and-Answer it

@kce I would love to get Good Subjective questions again

@voretaq7 - Duder. I have hundreds for you.

@voretaq7 which in itself is, erm, subjective

Wow. I just watched an android rageflip a panel van

I love this show.

@Iain agreed. I'm willing to put up with more than most on opinion-based questions (as long as they get good answers)

@voretaq7 A friend of mine does bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03qlrwk/Knight_Club he's much calmer since he started it

@voretaq7 - For example: (detailed description of environment) How can I introduce visioning control and a build server so that I can I remove local admin privileges from our dev teams in a WISC environment. (detailed description of goals)

@Iain I can't iPlayer you insensitive clod! (Seriously, tell the BBC I'll totally PAY THEM MONEY (granted, shit worthless American money) if they'll let me watch their shit online legally :)

@kce that would certainly fall under Good Subjective

@voretaq7 I'm sure you have a suitable vpn

@Iain yeah but it would disrupt my streaming of androids rageflipping minivans :-)

@Iain not bummer... all good. on the Velotron

and really I would actually give the BBC money.

Those are the kind of questions SF can kick ass at. I mean. I can read TechNet. I can Google. But what's complicated and painful for me is to spend a few weeks putting together Request Tracker and but finding that it's just not the right solution for the particular problem I'm trying to solve.

I'd give HBO money too for Game of Thrones

but they won't take my money

so I steal their shows.

@voretaq7 it's full contact knights in armour fighting

@Iain - Not following? VPN?

A lot of you don't ask questions. Why?

@Iain . . . I'm not sure I should be allowed to have a sword :-)

@ewwhite I can usually google up the answer myself

@voretaq7 sword is just the start ... they have much better stuff than that

@Iain . . . <searching video collection>

@ewwhite - I'm afraid of getting stomped. Also. As petty as it is, no one upvotes any decent questions. I view upvotes as the metric determining the community's value of your contributions. No upvotes tells me no one is interested in my questions.

@kce it's a link to a BBC programme that will only play if you're located in the UK., so you need a virtual private network with a UK end point to see it.

@kce hmm... serverfault.com/users/13325/…

Long version :)

Some questions may be narrow, but could be useful to other people

@ewwhite - Yeah. But you're special. You have lots "rep". People automagically upvote anything with rep.

I find things on SF, SU, SO often.

@ewwhite all of the questions I've asked I've found answerers to on google. Sometimes they are already on SF, sometimes on U&L or SO. Other times they are $elsewhere

@Iain I know, I know... ExpertsExchange.com

@kce I upvote all the decent questions I see, I also downvote the crappy ones

@Iain - I got two dudes talking about backstabing with a ballista. In the right place?

@ewwhite not so much these days, SF has taken over thier position

@Iain the last few real issues I've had only had solutions on experts exchange. Nothing on SF.

I should go back and add them here

@kce that link above ? guys in armour knocking hell out of each other

@Iain - Working for me. I'm in Alaska. We're not a country.

@kce I have a friend visiting Alaska for the first time in a week. She'll be in Fairbanks... I'd love to visit..

Us Continental US folk don't know much about Alaska...

@ewwhite: all you need to know is... can you see russia from there?

Some of us think Alaska is south of California, in a box... next to Hawaii...

and smaller than Texas...

@ewwhite it's not ?

@JourneymanGeek I can see Russia from my house! Thanks Webcams!

@Iain um...

Nah...

@Iain That's the refrigerator box, that's why it's so cold there. Hawaii is in the steam oven we use for baking bread...

@ewwhite - I haven't spent much time in FBX. It's a very strange strange place. I was up their for the Eqinox Marathon in late September. We started running at 07:00 and it was 20F.

Beautiful place though.

@kce where are you located?

SE AK.

In the panhandle.

Next to BC?

I mean over a mountain range and an icefield yeah.

I'm going to have to do some Wikipedia-ing...

Ah. It's mostly google-able. I'll stop be coy. Juneau, AK.

@ewwhite "Stupid Mercator projection" Here, have a map

Alaska has more than three million lakes - Ick!

@ewwhite and a seaplane to land on each one

HAHA. Not quite. We mostly have to walk everywhere. Suffering great personal tragedy.

Fun Aviation Facts: Every US aviation regulation ends with the words "Except in Alaska, where you can do whatever the fuck you want."

@kce You have dogsleds too

@voretaq7 - True story. The pilots up here. Oh Shit.

Like dude are you sleeping? there are cloud and mountains and shit.

"no problem. wake me up if you see anything"

@kce Alaska is.... "special"

We're the retarded state.

since you guys are literally use air taxis the way we use yellow cabs.

MC Hammer pants just got here.

@kce . . . because of their insulating properties?

all that free air trapped in them - great insulation

@kce . . . "My shoes exploded"

@kce also I'm drinking scotch

@voretaq7 I wish it were scotch o'clock here

I'm in a train on my way to work. Commuters suck.

@voretaq7 - Bullet Bourbon here. Laugvoulin earlier.

I wear.... ya know.... shoes

if I need to wear boots I stay home

@kce Glenlivet at the moment, gonna buy some Oban when this is gone

Aren't you back east? Isn't the weather terrible up there?

"Normal" weather: uscgnews.com/clients/c780/370591.JPG

@kce Define "terrible"

it was 54 degrees today

now it's....

12

so whatever that means :)

Dude. The east coast is weird.

its raining inside our college building. That's probably not good.

that's normal.

and you're in Alaska @kce, you people elected Sarah Palin governor. You don't get to call anybody weird :)

@voretaq7 - Not me. But point well taken.

(Though in Alaska's defense I bet she didn't seem as Batshit-Brand Crazy when y'all elected her)

@kce the people I vote for never get elected.

room topic changed to The Comms Room: This is *NOT a place for 'Live Support', ask on the main site. // Tuesday 7th January 2014, the start of ServerFault's eternal weekend. [be-the-change] [pwned-by-a-wild-markdown]*

OK, bedtime

roar: I flee.

@voretaq7 - Keep fighting the good fight.

morning all

good night @voretaq7

Mornin'

Anyone here worked with HP AppSystems for SQL 2012 PDW?

@Iain Wait, we have a front page? ;)

@Dan sadly yes ;)

I cannot believe how many upvotes the simple networking question @ewwhite posted gave me

@pauska :(

Whatever we think of it, there's a real market for basic simple elementary "how is network formed" questions out there. I blame the idiots who think devops means that a programmer is also magically a sysadmin now.

@pauska I didn't know the answer.

or what other people did.

I'm not saying you're stupid

it's just that networking questions in general rarely attracts upvotes on SF

@pauska you can remove networking from that sentence

No, in produce, people just never did anything. In finance, we never had redundancy because of the latency effects. At Logicworks, we... um... some clients had Netgear.

but they would only deploy in switch pairs, or use a chassis or... Netgear

@pauska @ewwhite was spamming that question in here, asking people to upboat you

but nobody did :)

I did!

@DennisKaarsemaker oh

Strange thing. I'm installing Windows 2008 on VMware... but no mouse.

@Iain eternal weekend why? what changed? it does sound pretty bad though.

tab-tab...

@FalconMomot it's just like usenet's eternal September

wake me up when September ends

@Iain no, I do catch your reference... but why today?

@FalconMomot it seems very much worse out there than normal - gotta start somewhere

it's been awful all month

notice how I haven't been answering much lately

@RobM ring out the bells again, like we did when spring began

@FalconMomot I think this is the problem - perhaps we've tipped the balance where none of the Pros can actually be arsed to field the questions

@FalconMomot Most of the month has been a logical weekend - it's obviously not going to get better just because people are back at work

Essentially letting the lunatics take over the asylum

@Dan they almost can't be arsed to come here and ask them

this has been a long time coming...

@FalconMomot I submit serverfault.com/questions/565481/… , serverfault.com/questions/565487/… , serverfault.com/questions/565485/… just for starters

keygen.jar?!?

@Iain Haha, "I think we use..."

@Iain can you see source IPs?

can moderators, that is?

@Iain the last one in particular.

@ewwhite me, not now I'm no longer a mod

I wonder if these are call-center types...

@ewwhite I think they are not, but rather the south asian entrepreneur type.

you know, the guys that start SEO companies

The english and punctuation are giveaways...

@ewwhite mods have tools to see them. AIUI when they do use those tools they're logged and it now shows up in your profile

like... think wipro

@DennisKaarsemaker that's the one :)

but not call centre... even their L3 desk is a crime against god and man.

then, imagine those guys each running IT for a small company of two...

@DennisKaarsemaker speaking of spring @shog9 did say that they may have some new initiative available in the spring

I really do think the key is google search results :P

@Dan his response to y comment chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/13031475#13031475

@FalconMomot the key to what ? We know google drives people here, that's the problem

it's both the problem and the solution.

though it would be damn nice to know what search terms lead people like serverfault.com/questions/565485/… here

we can't be getting that kind of traffic from word of mouth, seeing as it is that we give them a very rough time when they come.

it's all faultserver.com

@Iain Standard affair, though, isn't it :(

@FalconMomot Hey, sometimes we all need help with the INTERNET

@Dan if that thing is typical of that guy he should be fed to bears.

+1!

uh dude

some of us work in open environments

please remove that pic

@Dan yes, so uneducated as to not know that they're clueless

@pauska I'd planned to anyway :P

@pauska It's from a news article, the guy is fine

@Dan oh, go easy on @pauska and his poor, sensitive, virgin eyes...

I feel sorry for some of these people who get something dumped on them but that still doesn't make this place into do_my_sysadmin_work_for_me.com

I'd like to see more questions about "how do I design a good solution to this problem"

@RobM Pay_Me_To_Do_Your_SysAdmin_Work_You_Incapable_Fool.com

and less "my stuff is broken and I don't know where to start HALP!"

@FalconMomot You'll be getting plenty of those once I'm on my own

@dan now if they pay us, that would be different!

and certainly less "I want to start this hopeless business but don't know the first thing about what I'm doing. What do?"

@FalconMomot yeah. It grinds my gears in particular as I believe in teaching people to fish rather than giving them a fish

@pauska stackapps.com/questions/3019/… is handy too

@Dan starting an MSP?

and people these days not only want you to give them a fish, they expect you to gut it and cook it for them too

@RobM well, that, and the questions are so fucking basic, or beyond any answering...

to stretch the analogy

@FalconMomot I don't even mind basic questions, if they are good. People who aren't as experienced can answer those and learn a bit for themselves and everyone gets something from that deal.

@RobM basic ones are fine, but you know what I'm talking about.

@FalconMomot Don't know what this, but I'm going contracting

good luck man

yeah I do.

I like this;

All this "how is network formed" and "tell me how to make a youtube clone on this unexpanded vic20 I found"

@Chopper3 wow. wtf.

@Chopper3 ?

that's one way to take the decorations down

@RobM yes, those. they need to be eaten by dragons.

Dunno, just like it

wow

@FalconMomot Thanks dude, I've been and will be spamming the room with my progress

awesome

awesome, and also expressive of a very noble sentiment.

@FalconMomot dragons have standards. We need to put them in dark, grueful caves.

... if you look at freelancer sites there are a lot of really silly demands. I remember seeing one that was literally "make a clone of mls.ca for $2000" (MLS being a map-searchable realty site)

@JourneymanGeek dragons like to make the world a better place by eating idiots.

of course while people keep accepting those jobs, people will keep posting them

I should wash the dye out of my hair, and hope some of it remains in my hair and very little has made blue spots elsewhere.

@RobM same as people answering crappy questions here really

Lots of non-IT people out there who want IT resources, dev, ops, whatever and have no idea of how to even begin valuing them.

@iain yep

Ugh, I have to get a tower server ordered for a remote location.. I just can't decide on the spec

I'm so used to buying big ass virtualization servers

@FalconMomot It's the same even for sysadmin type stuff. I see jobs offering "first job out of school" type salaries or day rates but after people with years of experience - no wonder you end up with shite. My favourites are still the people who want more years experience with a product than it has existed for, though - that's mega cute

"must have 4 years experience with windows 2012" kinda posts. I kinda think of those as a warning that you don't want to work for the person posting that shit anyway

@Dan I saw a listing for a sysadm with "12 years of experience with Exchange 2010"

let me fire up my time machine....

@RobM Absolutely agree - if they're not even realistic about expectations on the advert, you've got no chance!

I've got about 15 years exchange experience in total

I'm goign to have to be a lot braver about my abilities I thnk

well its not how many years, it's what you've done with it

Citrix wise I think I'm okay and can justify a reasonable day rate

1 year of designing and setting up domains and forests from scratch beats 10 years "AD experience" that actually translates to 10 years of opening ADUC and going "right-click->new user" on a helpdesk.

That's true, yeah

currently looking to re-do our IP scheme here

each part of the college, was defined as a set of /24 sized ip networks & vlans. I said at the time the allocation was too small and got shouted down and now we need to re-do them because the allocations are too small in some areas. Fun!

don't even ask about ipv6

Haha, I dont' worry about IPv6 - I don't care what people say, it's nowhere near

Would it be easier for you to just define additional VLAN's?

@Dan yes and no. It's confusing some of the lower level it staff here when two devices in the same room have different IP address ranges because they go back to two different switches/vlans