The Comms Room

Dan

10:00 AM

@RobM That's a fair comment

Though I see a lot of Client VLAN 1, Client VLAN 2 etc and just fill as required or split by area

pauska

I'd probably implement ipv6 if you're going to redo the layout

but only if you have a native ipv6 pipe and get a PI space

and honestly, with the switches and endpoints of today there really isn't a point of limiting yourself to /24's

Dan

@RobM Are you guys on janet, I believe they're ipv6 now?

Falcon Momot

10:16 AM

@RobM even after 3 months of setting up AD environments you could do a pretty good job of it...

RobM

@dan yes we are, and yes it is

@FalconMomot yep

Journeyman Geek

heh

ipv6 isn't as horrible as people make it out to be

Falcon Momot

@JourneymanGeek it isn't horrible at all.

it's wonderful and joyous.

Journeyman Geek

@FalconMomot: I'm mostly on it

RobM

There's no point in trying to persuade a boss that doesn't really understand ipv4 that we should implement ipv6. The last time I tried he yelled at me about what a dumb idea it was for half an hour in order to cover up his ignorance.

Falcon Momot

10:22 AM

disliking IPv6 is a vile and repugnant sin and indicates a blackness of soul untold and an ignorance that will resound through the ages.

Journeyman Geek

other than my one XP system, and my home server is set to prefer ipv4 over ipv6 (because UBUNTU)

RobM

disliking anything new, ipv6 or whatever (though ipv6 isn't really 'new' these days is it?) just because its new is the mentality of someone who doesn't really belong in IT if you ask me.

Falcon Momot

if Hitler were alive today he would be an IPv4 booster.

@RobM but, it's been the mentality of so many of my coworkers since forever...

it's even kind of the mentality in the hacker scene. not a lot of research being done on 64-bit.

RobM

yes it has. I think people look at IPv6 addresses and mentality is to just shutdown because its not immediately obvious.

Falcon Momot

dunno why people so desperately need addresses they can remember.

RobM

10:24 AM

I admit I have a lot to learn about ipv6 myself, but the difference between myself and a lot of others in that position is that I know that's a failing in me not a failing in ipv6

Journeyman Geek

@FalconMomot: my attitude is I can just set up AAAA addresses for everything

Falcon Momot

and the nicest thing about ipv6 is that so much of it is automatic.

@JourneymanGeek my things can set up their own AAAA records

Journeyman Geek

setting up static ipv6 addresses however sounds like a scary possibility

Falcon Momot

hmm? no, you can do that too if you like. it's not hard.

it's a good idea actually for servers and stuff

Journeyman Geek

@FalconMomot: its kind of a really big space ;p

Falcon Momot

10:25 AM

so?

it's designed to be sparsely allocated.

Journeyman Geek

with local ipv4, its basically automatic for me, I haven't quite understood how to do it with ipv6. Its a failing with me, not the system ;p

Falcon Momot

this impulse people have to conserve addresses simply does not apply

so network engineers need only worry about routing and broadcast domains and security boundaries and stuff.

RobM

don't forget the people who equate NAT with Firewall and think that ipv6 is insecure because you don't need NAT

Journeyman Geek

oh, and with one ipv6 capable (consumer) router, my other gear basically automatically do it. (since yanno, I have 2 other routers around)

Iain

The main problem I appear to have with IPv6 is cdn.sstatic.net

Falcon Momot

10:27 AM

@RobM those people ought to be fed to tigers.

or, shown a simple NAT bypass.

Journeyman Geek

@RobM: people who do that need to be nibbled to death by ducks.

Falcon Momot

source routing...

Dan

@RobM I do like the extra comfort of NAT,though, I must admit

Falcon Momot

it's a false comfort.

Dan

@FalconMomot Not really

Falcon Momot

10:28 AM

it totally is.

given all the easy bypasses that exist, it has almost no security value at all.

Dan

Citation required

Falcon Momot

which is typical of things not designed as security measures.

hmm, I can probably pull something up

Journeyman Geek

@Dan: and horse buggies are better cause you can use whips to fend off scallywags?

Falcon Momot

one general principle is that you feed traffic with inside addresses to the router, and find that it often routes them, but that requires you to be its neighbour or have people honour the source path

Dan

@JourneymanGeek You're talking to a man who owns a 43 year old car and hates modern vehicles ;)

@FalconMomot So that's hardly "no security value" is it

Journeyman Geek

10:30 AM

@Dan: do you need to feed the engine grass, and bribe it with sugar cubes? ;p

Falcon Momot

it is none.

Journeyman Geek

What's the security value of NAT?

Falcon Momot

what are you trying to protect against with it?

Journeyman Geek

It hides that there's more than one host in that segment of the network, I suppose

Dan

@FalconMomot Okay, ignoring my firewall, my home network has 3 devices on 192.168.1.1, 2, 3 - with a nat router on [Public IP]. If 192.168.1.1 isn't talking to the outside world, how EXACTLY do you plan to speak to it?

Journeyman Geek

10:32 AM

but thats security by obscurity, and is better served by a firewall.

@Dan: there's router compromises though

Dan

@JourneymanGeek Ah, this I totally agree with

Falcon Momot

@Dan pass a packet to that router with 192.168.1.1 as its destination address.

Dan

@JourneymanGeek And there are firewall compromises

@FalconMomot And you're doing that.....how?

Besides, it shouldn't work anyway - the router won't know what to do with it from the other side, should it? Not that you could get it there

Falcon Momot

you can use it as a gateway, if you are near enough to it.

I also recall there being some way to specify a route a packet must take, though it's rarely implemented

Dan

I'm see a lot of theory and little by way of example here, gents

Falcon Momot

10:33 AM

mostly these methods are of use when you're trying to bust through a badly set up DMZ when you're already in someplace

Journeyman Geek

@Dan: what if someone sneaks in a device into your network?

Dan

By the way, I don't advocate NAT as a firewall replacement - I'm just saying it gives me a little bit of piece of mind

Journeyman Geek

(or like my ****ing stupid neighbour, has an unsecured AP)

Dan

@JourneymanGeek So what if they do - no edge technology is helping you there

Journeyman Geek

@Dan: There's also Nat for IPV6 IIRC

Falcon Momot

10:35 AM

right, it's called "loose source routing"

Dan

@JourneymanGeek 3rd time lucky - and I know, but to be fair, it's properly dirty to use it with v6

Journeyman Geek

@Dan: oh, very much so. I suspect it only exists to keep auditors happy

Falcon Momot

hmm

cisco appears to have designed it; not sure why.

but, source routing still exists in ipv6, and also roaming, so it's still completely useless for security.

and then there is also beef

Journeyman Geek

moo?

Falcon Momot

(which is really just a social engineering attack)

faker

10:48 AM

I was playing with Google Charts on the weekend and wondered why my graphs all were one month ahead of what I wanted. Turns out JavaScript Date object starts counting months at 0. Who comes up with something like that?

Falcon Momot

@faker the same people who come up with the idea that you execute a class.

or the people who think that the system is properly represented as an object.

pauska

It probably needs jQuery. jQuery solves every IT need.

Falcon Momot

don't induce me to post goatse.

faker

some say this goes back to some ancient C APIs

Dan

@pauska jQuery is brill

I wonder why me and @FalconMomot disagree on everything

Falcon Momot

11:01 AM

do we?

Dan

Probably not - but it feels like on many things :D

Different jobs with different end goals, I expect, though

Falcon Momot

it's probably the same reason I disagree with most people I disagree with, actually :P

Dan

Which is?

Falcon Momot

basically, good enough isn't.

Iain

That doesn't actually answer the question posed so it's not really an answer and certainly shouldn't be the accepted answer. — Iain 1 min ago

kick that answer into touch please

Dan

11:04 AM

@FalconMomot Perhaps I'm more commercially motivated than you - not every solution can and should be perfect

Falcon Momot

well, I am in the business of taking people to task for small imperfections in their systems that happen to have unforeseen consequences.

Dan

@FalconMomot But that's a specific case, with regards to security

Falcon Momot

and, lately, developing military software tools

Dan

And that's a different case altogether :)

Falcon Momot

yup

I'm very much not in the business of reducing IT costs.

Dan

11:06 AM

But meanwhile, over here in the real world, good enough will have to do!

Iain

Thanks @tomoconnor

Tom O'Connor

YW.

Paul

122 8

This guy has no useful contributions over a year.

0

A: Can ping but cant connect to network shares?

Turn all the firewalls temporarily off on all machines, including the firewalls bound with antivirus software. If that will do the trick, you should tune your firewalls more precisely.

Ugh.

Iain

@TomO'Connor was unix.stackexchange.com/questions/108194/… flagged for migration btw ?

Tom O'Connor

@Iain Yeah.

It's an ass question, but I don't want it here :P

Iain

@TomO'Connor it would have been deleted by the cleaning fairies soon, I was just curious because of the comment directed at me when I didn't close it

Tom O'Connor

11:21 AM

There's so many wank questions today.

@Iain Oh, i dunno. I think it's because you were a VTC nominee.

Iain

4 hours ago, by Iain

There is so much fail on the front page - I'm declaring today to be the start of the eternal weekend.

Tom O'Connor

I think it'd be nice if I could still vote to close, without actually casting the final vote.

Iain

@TomO'Connor yeah bit MH actually closed it

@TomO'Connor it's been requested and declined

Tom O'Connor

Lame.

I'd also like to disable the Community necromancer bot.

Iain

@TomO'Connor that would be good - it would also be interesting to see how much attention community bubbled questions really get

Tom O'Connor

11:25 AM

@Iain Lots from mods saying "wtf is this shit"

Android_Virus

hello

Tom O'Connor

Hi.

Iain

@TomO'Connor I'm sure someone at SE can drag out stats about whether they get the intended attention or not

171

Q: Add a way for moderators to cast a normal, non binding vote

I think moderators should have the ability to cast a normal, non binding vote like if they were a normal user (while of course retaining their ability to cast a binding vote where necessary). This can be used in "grey areas" where a moderator can choose to give his or her opinion but not make a ...

feature-request status-declined moderation moderators moderator-abilities

Tom O'Connor

Jeff says: Leave comments.

Effort.

Chopper3

12:07 PM

Just swapped out the disk in my PS4, very impressed, whole process took about 20 minutes all in!

Tom O'Connor

now it's a 900GB SSD?

RobM

that's pretty good

Tom O'Connor

What we find is a new ITV program promoting the leak of Personally Identifiable information in the form of a meme.

I'm furious

Chopper3

@TomO'Connor nah, just a 500GB

RobM

still pretty good.

Chopper3

12:10 PM

@TomO'Connor Find out your mum's porn name by simply waiting for the credits!

5

RobM

heh

faker

@Chopper3 isn't the standard one also 500GB?

Chopper3

@faker yes, but it's a HDD

faker

@Chopper3 ah ok, so you really put a SSD in it

Chopper3

@faker yep, went with a Samsung EVO this time, normally prefer their PRO range but thought I'd give this a punt

Dan

12:17 PM

@TomO'Connor It's the fault of institutions presuming that your mothers maiden name is somehow secret, but I agree it's pretty irresponsible / naive

tombull89

ooh android 4.3 pushed to my phone

Tom O'Connor

@Dan It's not so much that, but the fact that you could follow a hashtag and harvest it all like a big hoover.

Dan

@TomO'Connor Oh yeah, very silly on their part

Tom O'Connor

I wrote about these in 2011

I update the blog post whenever I find a new one.

7 so far :P

Anonymous

good morning everyone

Tom O'Connor

12:25 PM

Morning!

Chopper3

howdy

Anonymous

@Chopper3 fine thanks

Anonymous

you?

Iain

@TomO'Connor I just dug that up on facebook and left a comment

Tom O'Connor

@Iain Fair enough

Chopper3

12:34 PM

@PatoSáinz good thanks, not so jet-lagged :)

Tom O'Connor

I can't FB at work, otherwise I would too.

Anonymous

@Chopper3 jetlagged from?

Tom O'Connor

I just replied to everyone I could find on twitter who responded berating them for their stupidity.

Chopper3

@PatoSáinz we had a week in Paris and a week in Edgartown over the holidays

Anonymous

@Chopper3 uh fancy

Chopper3

12:36 PM

@PatoSáinz had a horrid christmas the year before so we decided last january to do something nice

Anonymous

@Chopper3 define horrid christmas

Chopper3

@PatoSáinz I was a third of the way through a very strong set of chemotherapy having had four serious surgeries within the previous 8 weeks - kinda horrid :)

Anonymous

@Chopper3 hugs

Chopper3

@PatoSáinz hopefully all sorted now

Anonymous

Dan

12:39 PM

@PatoSáinz Careful, he'll give you crabs

3

Anonymous

lol

Tom O'Connor

@PatoSáinz Needs More Trollface

Chopper3

@Dan at best

Dan

@Chopper3 I didn't want to Google to check the spelling of anything else

Tom O'Connor

@Iain Turns out I can FB from work, if i sneak around as https

Visit booking.com once, next day, all google suggested ads are for the same.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

12:51 PM

@TomO'Connor Big Brother is watching you!

Tom O'Connor

@DennisKaarsemaker Evidently.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

Google's algorithm is properly revenue driven (read: our google bill has more zero's than I'd want to know...)

@Dan he might be crabby, but crabs.... :)

Journeyman Geek

I'm pretty sure I can spell chlamydia tho not gonorrhea off the top of my head.

2

Dennis Kaarsemaker

you've got gonorrhea on the top of your head?!

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek diahrrhoea

Anonymous

12:59 PM

or however it's written... hard word too

Tom O'Connor

@DennisKaarsemaker I did find some very nice hotels in Paris, though.

@PatoSáinz I once received a faxed-in sicknote from a colleague (why it was a fax, I've no idea)

Journeyman Geek

thats not a STD. If it is for you, I don't want to know.

Anonymous

>fax

Journeyman Geek

@DennisKaarsemaker: not as far as I know. I can't spell it without spellcheck either.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek :)

Tom O'Connor

1:00 PM

that had ~~diarhoea~~ ~~diareeea~~ ~~diarhoea~~ "the shits" written on it

There we go.

@PatoSáinz IKR.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@TomO'Connor well, we have 2106 hotels there. Some of them must be nice :)

@PatoSáinz I love fax

Tom O'Connor

@DennisKaarsemaker Some of them are.

Some of them are Insanely Expensive

and some are hostels shudder

Falcon Momot

@TomO'Connor no idea? really?

Journeyman Geek

heh. We have a thermal paper fax around here somewhere

I have no idea why we keep it

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@TomO'Connor if you want Insanely Expensive, check Dubai :)

Anonymous

1:02 PM

@DennisKaarsemaker?!

Anonymous

>fax

Anonymous

>2014

Anonymous

the nineties called and they want their dinosaur back

Falcon Momot

I still have and occasionally use a fax machine.

well, not dedicated, and not thermal, but it still lives.

Journeyman Geek

oh, I love our MFD

Anonymous

1:04 PM

@JourneymanGeek do you also use telex?

Journeyman Geek

well once I worked out which was the 'right' driver

@PatoSáinz: by around here somewhere, I mean its in a box, in storage, and for some wierd reason, I'm not allowed to throw it out.

Anonymous

why would anyone throw out a telex

Journeyman Geek

I mean the fax machine

we never had a telex ;p

Anonymous

oh

Scott Pack

@DennisKaarsemaker So now that you're all done would you like to see my source and stylesheets?

Tom O'Connor

1:07 PM

@FalconMomot Other than "so it couldn't be forged" it seemed like and odd choice.

iunno.

cole

Morning

Falcon Momot

1

Q: Linux - Sending a command to a screen through a shell script?

I'm trying to figure out how to make a script that will be able to send commands to a screen that will execute within whatever the screen is doing. Is this possible, and if so, how is it done? I've already tried screen -X etc, and it is not executing the commands.

scripting shell screen

worst answer ever.

well, maybe not ever

@TomO'Connor if one of my staff did that, ever, I'd assume they were doing it because they didn't want to call and let me hear their well and chipper voice.

but, then, my staff were very unhappy with their lot in life because I wasn't allowed to pay them more than about $14 an hour.

Tom O'Connor

@FalconMomot Intriguing.

@FalconMomot Call from the bathroom whilst pouring baked beans from the tin, into the toilet bowl

cole

Mother fuckity fuck it's cold out

Falcon Momot

given that I always sent people home if they came in with the flu, they certainly knew they could stay away if they were actually sick.

sigh

I am in the airport in Calgary, where it is just above 0 C, waiting to fly to Toronto where it is currently -24 C.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

1:16 PM

@ScottPack sure, I can probably learn a trick or two :)

Falcon Momot

I guess the girl and I will have to spend a lot of time inside...

hmm, two flights to toronto were just cancelled, but not mine.

Scott Pack

Girl?

Falcon Momot

yes

she is very persistent, but she lives across the country from me.

so, across the country I go.

Scott Pack

That's unfortunate.

The living across the country bit, not going to visit her.

cole

I think I would be okay with that

I'm not sure I'll ever be able to even live in the same house as someone else.

Well that's concerning

We didn't get emails from our monitoring software when DCs were down (rebooted)

>.>

Udemy.com is having a 70% off sale today: udemy.com

Tom O'Connor

1:37 PM

@cole I found them to be quite spammy last time.

cole

@TomO'Connor yeah they are a bit

Dan

@cole That might be something of a deal breaker in the long term!

cole

@Dan yeah I definitely worry about it

Dan

@cole I settled into it quite easily, to be honest. I don' tthink it's that bad

Though I've never lived alone

cole

HA the networking guy naming the new polling engine for Solarwinds: Pollerwinds

@Dan I've been living alone for a bit now

few years, really.

tombull89

1:39 PM

@cole I don't think I'd be able to either. I don't quite fancy living in a shared house or with other people.

Dan

http://www.youneedabudget.com/

I quite like the look at that

cole

@Dan I like it - I did the trial. Very easy to use.

@tombull89 I'd be like "we can get married...but live in separate houses...or states...or countries..."

@Dan Steam had a sale last week for YNAB for $14.99

Dan

I don't quite get how they work the monthly, thing though. They seem to consider a month to be from the 1st - 31st or whatever. But, I work 25th - 25th

Iain

Can we kill serverfault.com/questions/565555/… please, before the rest of his class get the same idea

cole

@Iain voted

@Dan Hm I can't remember if you can tweak it - you may be able to.

tombull89

1:42 PM

Nightly Spartan? This isn't madness, this is ServerFault.

Although the differences are far and few between.

cole

I'm working off a simple spreadsheet now but I'm struggling to account for "small purchases" such as coffee, etc.

Dan

@cole It must be pretty normal, hadn't it? Nobody gets paid on the 1st?

cole

@Dan well I get paid every two weeks, so it varies month to month for me.

tombull89

Me: ohai just creatin' 31 live.com email addresses for our tablets and Office365 use. Microsoft: NO CAN DO. GTFO.

cole

O_O

Dan

1:44 PM

Yeah, I've had a spreadsheet for years with our budget. Works fine, but we got to a point where we only had to check it every few months. That's going to change when I leave here, though, so I want to be on top of spending.

With regards to the small things - the way I did it was to account for everything solid (Rent, utilities, loan payments etc) and then average monthly things like petrol and groceries. Then, each month we'd account for EVERY single purchase on another sheet

cole

@Dan I make so many tiny purchases...I should probably stop doing that.

Dan

@cole Yep! Or at least account for them for a month and you'll see how much you're really spending

cole

@Dan I may cry

Dan

I used to love Microsoft Money - can't believe they stopped them

cole

But yeah, I'd like to knock out my CC debt this year.

Dan

1:45 PM

@cole Ignorance is the devil when it comes to spending ;)

cole

Now that I'm back in a steady position with a steady income.

Nathan C

@cole I re-created my spreadsheet with credit card utilization %'s and the whole thing

cole

Easier to budget when you know exactly what's coming in

Nathan C

It saddened me :(

cole

@NathanC it's tough

Dan

1:50 PM

@cole Doesn't look like I can change it - primariyl because they're trying to enforce a way of thinking so not convinced it's going to work very well for me

cole

Pewp

Journeyman Geek

@cole: or account for it like companies do - set aside an amount for smaller purchases per month, and roll it over for the next month

IE, petty cash

cole

@JourneymanGeek that's a good idea.

The best feeling in the world is stretching and not feeling like my chest is ripping in two.

Journeyman Geek

lol

cole

For awhile just felt like things were pulling.

Journeyman Geek

1:52 PM

or actually having it rip into two and having a chestburster come out.

Tom O'Connor

@Iain Yes.

Dan

@cole I don't think I understand what they're going for. I don't want to rethink - I just wanted a nice sheet to keep track :D

cole

@Dan then probably best to keep w/ the excel spreadsheet

I mean shit, at least I'm tracking that stuff now.

I was looking back to July - I've reduced my monthly bills by $1000/month since July.

Iain

@TomO'Connor too kind ;)

tombull89

@TomO'Connor anything else back from Amazon yet?

cole

1:58 PM

MOTHER FUCKER

Dan

Probably - they seem desperate to stop you from spending your wages in the same month. I.e., you get paid £1000, but then spend a £1000 just before next pay check. They want you to have another £1000 sat in the account as a buffer.

But IMHO, that's what savings are for. I don't keep an equivalent of a months income sloshing around in my current account, that's just silly

cole

I hate when I do that. I moved my mouse to go to my monitor to the right and hit the book the monitor is sitting on and it closed out of Chrome.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@cole 561238 tabs now closed?

cole

@DennisKaarsemaker only like 10 or so.

Transcript for