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5:00 PM
@Glorfindel Nope. It was posted today. I was here when it happened.
 
No, it's only been up a day
 
ah, right, sorry
 
@Andy You need a comment telling people to save their upvotes :)
 
New metasmoke user 'nvoigt' created
 
Although the idea is obviously to get community opinion, not for the rep. That's just an added bonus
 
5:01 PM
... Weird @Andy your profile says you've earned 202 :P
 
@Catija I bet that lasts until a rep recalc takes place.
 
Probably.
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body: i'm having some python 3 code problems by Zachary Pease on stackoverflow.com
fp- by Glorfindel
 
@ArtOfCode When building a Rails app, where does the finalized JavaScript go?
app/assets/javascripts/application.js?
 
New metasmoke user 'Korcholis' created
 
5:08 PM
Let's take an inventory of the issues raised so far:
(1) Defaulting to 5 based on the mSE post
(2) Visibility of the system to moderators
Looks like everything is a variation on those two?
The "use dedicated accounts for flagged" suggestion is a variation of (2)
If that's all, we're doing pretty well. Pretty sure Shog will back us on (1), and (2) is so far entirely addressable technically.
 
New metasmoke user 'Duncan X Simpson' created
 
It looks like a lot of concerns, but I think it's actually those two things in different wordings
 
@Undo It's a pretty big variation of #2. Using other accounts is a way to provide visibility, but I don't think it's the same as just "visibility"
 
@Andy I think this would be doable and reasonable:
Let's explore that a bit @MadScientist. I'm not promising this, but it's an option: What if each post got one flag from the SmokeDetector account (with relevant profile links), and the rest done the same way as now? I think that'd solve your concern without burdening us with creating 5-10 accounts and getting rep. — Undo 1 hour ago
It's still in the broad "Moderators should know this is working on their site and how" category
 
I've got to admit, I'm surprised by the suggestion from moderators to make these dedicated, essentially sock puppets. But, I understand where they are coming from too.
 
5:18 PM
Your website at metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com is throwing errors whenever I go to half the pages on it. Doesn't exactly instill confidence. — Duncan X Simpson 4 mins ago
Sounds like a troll to me... I've never had an error
 
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs Could be load
 
I guess I don't really understand that. I can pretty easily find stuff that's been deleted by just ... using search.
 
Seems faster than ever, though. Pages are nice and warm.
@DuncanXSimpson Mind throwing me a stack trace? — Undo 41 secs ago
 
Yeah MS has been performing really well the past couple days
Nginx is getting to do its job probably
 
Is there a way to find out if the auto flags were removed from a post?
 
5:23 PM
Not via the API
 
> ActiveRecord::StatementInvalid in ReasonsController#show
When logged out
 
New metasmoke user 'esqew' created
 
@Henders And logged in
 
error 28?
 
Mysql2::Error: Got error 28 from storage engine: SELECT posts.id, posts.created_at, posts.link, posts.title, posts.site_id, posts.username, posts.stack_exchange_user_id, IF(LENGTH(body)>1,1,0) as body_exists FROM posts` INNER JOIN posts_reasons ON posts.id = posts_reasons.post_id WHERE posts_reasons.reason_id = 35 ORDER BY created_at DESC LIMIT 100 OFFSET 0 `
 
5:25 PM
> Got error 28 from storage engine
 
of course
 
hah, disk space
hold on
 
wouldn't it make more sense to use machine learning + nlp than hand-written regex?
 
(sort of off topic)
 
5:26 PM
Anyone got 50p for the storage metre?
 
fp- by Glorfindel
 
@raddish0 We've tried that a few times, actually.
Totally on topic
 
how did it go?
 
Each time we've tried it, the results have been wildly inferior to handwritten regexes.
 
oh, maybe I'll start working on something. I'll tell you here if it works
 
5:27 PM
I'm mostly incompetent around the ML world. If you've got knowledge there and want to give it a try, I can give you any data you ask for.
Awesome! Let me know what you need.
 
Anyone heard anything from tanmay lately?
Wasn't he working on something like this?
 
I haven't
 
alright. is there a place where I can find copies of flagged posts?
 
JAD
hmmm, I guess the problem is getting hold on a sizeable amount of true negatives
 
figures
@JAD Download the entire data dump and use the posts without deleted table?
 
JAD
5:28 PM
yeah nevermind. I can't think
 
@raddish0 I can give you posts we marked as spam, and you can get not-spam true negatives from SEDE
 
It would be nice to have one place where I can get some of the flagged posts
ok
 
we have like 85k of those
so brace yourself :D
 
lol
 
Fixing the MS error now
 
5:30 PM
@raddish0 You can fetch them from the MS API, but be warned: it's very unbalanced
 
alright
 
MS rebooting
 
Even heavy class weighting doesn't help much
 
I have to leave now, I'll be looking into it. ;)
 
@raddish0 I'll ping when when I have a dump ready. SQL okay?
 
5:32 PM
yuo
*yup
 
Awesome, thanks!
 
@Undo Looks good!
 
Getting a working ML implementation would be awesome.
 
@ArtOfCode is domain parsing retroactive?
 
yes
 
5:32 PM
Well that could be interesting
 
definitely off topic but anyone here in data protection compliance or anyone got a good grip of the new EU rules due in may?
 
@Undo My current philosophy on ML (and the one that I've been working towards on and off) is that it needs to be used as a "discovery" reason to find bad domains
nothing will be any better than the blacklist once we know the URL
 
just FYI: I'm a 14yr old who has done extensive research on ML/AI, not an adult, though I want to work in this field
 
That's OK... @Undo is a dog. :P
 
lol
 
5:34 PM
In fact, a lot of SE is held together by dogs...
 
hope that explains my slow typing
 
what is it with 14 year olds and artificial intelligence
 
woof
 
you're the second 14 year old taking a crack at this :D
 
I am making a heuristic learning AI simlar to Eurisko
Who was the first?
 
5:36 PM
Young people are awesome. I'm 18, started doing this 4-5 years ago... Pretty easy to do the math
 
alright, my dad's gonna kill me if I don't leave now, bye
 
Cya :)
try not to get murdered
 
Ugh I feel old now
 
@Undo I think I might be ancient by this room's standard
 
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs Welcome to the club :)
 
5:38 PM
@WELZ weren't you the one that collected ages a while ago? What was the outcome?
 
@Tinkeringbell absolute joke!
Some immature people...!!
 
we can't share it, turns out everyone is under 10 years old /s
 
@raddish0 tanmay bakshi
 
:( I'll just continue feeling old then
 
@Tinkeringbell I think I'm almost as old as you are
 
5:40 PM
Someone almost half my age is competent in ML. I got some work to do
 
@Magisch Nice, you just found a subtle way of calling me old, thanks...
 
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs don't compare yourself to people on this website, you'll only get depressed
 
too late xD
 
it's like going to harvard. Suddenly you're not the smart one anymore
 
-_-
 
5:42 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, repeating characters in answer: Access object.variable in an array of objects by Bobby Garcia on stackoverflow.com
 
@SmokeDetector K IDK
The now featured coal meta posts seems larger
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Phone number detected in title: Arlo Phone Number +1833350-8094 Service For Arlo by angelina on stackoverflow.com
 
@SmokeDetector K
 
!!/test arlo
 
> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.
 
5:49 PM
If we stay on this trajectory, I think we're going to get 5 flags. There are no huge outstanding concerns; I bet we'll be able to go to Shog and say "We addressed these concerns with x and y, good to go?"
He'll say "yes", we'll turn it on and ping the concerned people.
And maybe don't turn it on for the ones that have expressed huge concerns (JG?) to let them ask their communities.
 
@Undo hm?
 
forces a chat separation
 
hm
 
Proposal: Change title from "A machine can flag spam automatically. Can it do it better?" to "A machine can flag spam automatically. Can it do better?"
The two it's in the last sentence seem awkward to me, but I'm crazy. Thoughts?
 
@Undo sounds good
 
5:56 PM
@Undo definitely, didn't even notice
I've been reading it the latter the entire time
 
done
 
CI on 79af969 succeeded.
Merged SmokeDetector #1679.
CI on d8242c0 failed.
 
@Undo still sounds kinda too much to me
 
Elaborate?
Supposing no new big concerns are raised, everything there right now can be addressed.
 
@Undo The core disagreement is between opt in and opt out
People proposing opt in won't be happy until we make it opt in for the entire network
 
6:02 PM
@Undo 1000 tps won't cause a problem, 1 fp will
I'm not bringing anything new to the table
Just reminding that this could be risky
 
ideally, moderators would be able to review 6-flag nukes on their sites no matter where they came from ... but it isn't important enough, apparently
 
CI on b1c2553 failed.
 
@Magisch Shog will probably back us on that.
 
gahhh
duplicate PRs
someone fix that, I can't
 
@Undo You can stir up the pot and make it "Can I do better? Hint: No You Can't" :)
 
6:10 PM
@Undo You know him better then I do
 
You should always be scared of 99 something percents.
 
Proposed wording: can it do so better?
 
not looking forward to doing my hundred and fifty or so custom flags for the week
wtb a userscript to custom flag a post from the user's reputation page directly
 
@Magisch "What The Butt"?
 
@Magisch that would actually be useful.
@M.A.R. want to buy .... I think
 
6:14 PM
Waiting to Board
 
Writing to Bob
 
Washed Through Birds
I have no idea how to get washed through
Probably ugly
Waggling Tough Bandits
 
Wingdings and Text
 
I have no idea how to userscript tbh
might be time to get into that
 
@Magisch I think one of the steps requires turning on a computer
 
6:17 PM
@raddish0 cool; I was 14 when I started, too (15 now)! Welcome! :D
 
@Undo can you fix this CI failure, there's a duplicate watchlist entry
I can't fix it on mobile
 
@raddish0 If you want to take a look at our last attempt, developed by Tanmay Bakshi (who, incidentally, is also 14), it's here - github.com/tanmayb123/DeepSPADE
 
!!/rev
ah that's why
 
@Magisch It's pretty simple, really: We were planning to do 170+ meta posts, Shog gave us this alternative.
He's pretty consistent once he makes a decision.
 
6:22 PM
Please be careful that there are no outstanding pull requests with the same blacklist/watch before you do a direct blacklist. It lays an unpleasant trap for any other code admins.
2
 
@Undo Haven't had much to do with him tbh
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: DNS request sample traffic by Sampath Madala on opendata.SE
 
So I'll take your word for it
to normal users, shog comes across more like a force of nature
 
Oh, he absolutely is.
 
the CM of all CMs
 
6:24 PM
Still, if there are dark clouds above you, it's probably gonna rain. If the sun is shining, it's probably gonna get warmer. You can predict nature ;)
 
not someone you talk to like a normal user - he's rarely got the time
 
@SmokeDetector F meh
 
@Magisch I prefer to think of Shog more like this:
 
@Undo No, dark clouds are robot apocalypse. They always were
 
@Undo or it's perfectly sunny and then you get struck by dry lightning
 
6:25 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: Disable "OS verification is turned off" screen on Chromebook by Cat on superuser.com
 
And with the weather I'm used to, sun shining means you freeze because of the heavy snow about to drop in two minutes
 
Roy Cleveland Sullivan (February 7, 1912 – September 28, 1983) was a United States park ranger in Shenandoah National Park in Virginia. Between 1942 and 1977, Sullivan was hit by lightning on seven different occasions and survived all of them. For this reason, he gained a nickname "Human Lightning Conductor" and "Human Lightning Rod". Sullivan is recognized by Guinness World Records as the person struck by lightning more recorded times than any other human being. == Personal life == Sullivan was born in Greene County, Virginia, on February 7, 1912. He started working as a ranger in Shenan...
 
@SmokeDetector K this is not your diary dude
 
CI on 980ed29 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...
 
@Undo yes thank you
 
6:26 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 980ed29 (Undo1: -duplicate --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)
Restart: API quota is 11046.
 
Can't do reviews either, GH web mobile is lame
 
@SmokeDetector k
 
New metasmoke user 'recursive' created
New metasmoke user 'Violet Giraffe' created
 
Ha, [featured] is evil. It has multiplied the -/+ ratio
 
uh.. how did I end up as a core flagger?
 
6:38 PM
@Floern you're cool, that's why
 
:P
 
Ha, I should really be asking that. You have an awesome userscript
Maybe coreness would be >1000 feedbacks? CC @Undo
I was either not present or not paying attention in the core definition discussion, and last I checked, it wasn't defined
 
Core <=> 60 feedbacks per month.
Feb 23 at 15:24, by ArtOfCode
If you hit 60 feedbacks in 30 days, you get the core role
(if you don't, the role gets revoked)
 
ah thx, that explains it
 
6:56 PM
@Mithrandir sounds like scifi will be opting out if we allow that
 
@Magisch annoyed sounds
I'm a 20ker on SFF but a large percentage of the people active on meta... kinda don't like me :P
 
@Mithrandir No idea why that could possibly be the case :D
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] No whitespace in answer: Encryption in Vivo android phones by Sonu on android.SE (@iBug)
naa- by Floern
 
@Mithrandir Can you edit that to include the spam tag?
 
tpu- by Glorfindel
 
7:05 PM
Feb 16 at 21:36, by Catija
Tell members that if they don't have X rep on the site, stay away from the vote buttons...
 
@Mithrandir ok I'm not sure what the deal is here but this is flat out misinformation
hopefully the mods will handle that
 
Feb 16 at 21:35, by Undo
Also, we're going to have to figure out how to not be a vote cartel on these meta posts
 
also isn't this the person who got chat banned and mos eisley nuked? He's actively insulting "certain moderators" in the comments
 
it's an ex-mod
 
7:13 PM
did a nice job of finding the only auto flagged FP SFF has ever gotten
like, of all time
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title, phone number detected in title: official 1800 921 4167 quickbooks enterprise phone number by qckspprt on stackoverflow.com
 
... Does it seem a bit redundant to have the two reasons be that the same word shows up in the title and the body? If the question is about that, then it's probably going to be in both ...
 
New metasmoke user 'LowlyDBA' created
 
7:28 PM
@Mithrandir I don't have 20K, but I do have some numbers on SFF. I posted a response
 
0
Q: Do we want Smoke Detector to auto flag spam?

TheLethalCarrotAs some of you may have seen already there is this post on mother meta. To save a bad explanation by me here's the TL;DR from the post. Charcoal is the organisation behind SmokeDetector. Since January 2017, we've been casting up to 3 flags automatically on posts that our systems are confident...

 
@Andy I think you forgot the link to the dashboard.
Mith added it.
 
@Andy valorum seems to really, really hate bots
 
Maybe if you called it a robot?
 
Thanks @Mithrandir.
 
7:35 PM
New metasmoke user 'vkehayas' created
 
@ProcessedMeat should I refrain from voting on those?
 
Yes.
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How can I debug a .BAT script? by DenkDirNix on stackoverflow.com
tpu- by Jake Symons
 
@JohnDvorak too late
How democratic is it if the people asking for the change discuss voting and meta posts while this is entirely speculative I would not be surprised if the voting swayed in favour. — Edlothiad 7 mins ago
whether we vote or not (we shouldn't) we'll be accused of it
 
Ignore it
 
7:42 PM
I guess a backlash is almost always inevitable with these kind of issues :)
 
You're right we will. We've provided guidance to not do so above. It was a direct reply to the posted meta question. The best we can do is follow that guidance.
 
fp- by Makyen
Conflicting feedback on How can I debug a .BAT script?.
Conflicting feedback on How can I debug a .BAT script?.
 
I have 0 votes cast on scifi meta so if anyone votes it's not me
 
naa- by Glorfindel
Conflicting feedback on How can I debug a .BAT script?.
Conflicting feedback on How can I debug a .BAT script?.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, pattern-matching website in answer: How can I stop harassment about my medical condition by the boss's friend? by sulmank178 on workplace.SE
tpu- by Glorfindel
tpu- by Glorfindel
New metasmoke user 'Hosch250' created
 
!!/location
 
7:51 PM
@bwDraco teward/Solar Flare
 
@Andy It's a lose lose situation
 
@Magisch Come on, man. I said ignore it. Why add more to the fire when there are already two people saying the same thing?
@Magisch No it's not. They are talking about it.
 
@Andy I don't think that was adding fuel to the fire
 
Sometimes it's best to just let someone else think they won. That's a powerful lesson I should have learned earlier.
 
But I can delete the comment if you like
@Undo I hate doing that. It's so disingenous
 
7:54 PM
I do too. But it works.
And I've gotta ask you to make an attempt, or stay away from those posts entirely. Hope you understand where I'm coming from there.
 
I was trying to assuade fears there
 
"I really don't like the idea of robots flagging stuff on our site without supervision". The issue is that SD is supervised. It's supervised by anyone willing to hop into this chatroom. This is not a secret project.
 
There was a comment calling out all users in this room so I thought it was going to assuage some fears for them to know we don't vote on these
 
It's valid - but if someone shows that they're not listening, don't give them anything more to not listen to
It's just unnecessary wear on your keyboard at that point.
 
@Undo Assuming good faith and all I wasn't completly convinced
Maybe I'm not cynical enough
Stack does something to your assumptions. A lot of my hard earned cynicism from reddit and mcf went away
 
7:57 PM
When someone's already implying that you're not acting in good faith... probably a good time to walk away.
 
New metasmoke user 'Slater' created
 
@Undo 2+x: Oversight/protection from a human mistake. A post is fine with 4 flags because it requires 2 users to flag still, but not 5 because one human could mistakenly nuke something
 
@Undo I'm bad at picking up the hint that they don't
 
It's probably learned from moderating SO (more importantly mSO)
And I'm probably a little too cynical. Take my advice with that in mind.
 
Note to self: write a SFF story about Smokey taking over the world, ask about it on SFF, watch fireworks
 

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