Charcoal HQ

Magisch

10:01 AM

@ArtOfCode Feels like we've lost the luxury of being a small informal group then

John Dvorak

I think we have given it up

ArtOfCode

We're still an informal group, but we're not as small as we used to be

JAD

I think the impact is too big to afford that luxury

Magisch

I member when metasmoke was new and this way all manual

ArtOfCode

and as our tools get more powerful, we need to be more willing to step up and take responsibility for them

Magisch

10:02 AM

we've come quite far in 2 and a half years

JAD

which might just be a good thing

Magisch

@ArtOfCode Who is we in that context?

Mithrandir

@Magisch Charcoal as a whole.

Magisch

The only formal organizational structure we have to speak of is admin / non admin distinctions

ArtOfCode

@Magisch the collective

John Dvorak

10:03 AM

I remember when the only smokey here was me with a userscript

Magisch

I remember when all feedback was manual and FDSC and FIRE weren't a thing yet

ArtOfCode

ah yes, the Dark Days :P

I remember when metasmoke wasn't a thing :P

Magisch

@ArtOfCode You were skeptical to the idea of fdsc first

ArtOfCode

Hell, Undo remembers when Smokey wasn't a thing :P

John Dvorak

the Precambrian era

M.A.R.

10:04 AM

@ArtOfCode before electricity

Mithrandir

@ArtOfCode back when Charcoal was a comment-flagging ring?

ArtOfCode

aye

Mithrandir

/me totally doesn't read ancient chat transcripts

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, +2 more: Slim Fusion Garcinia by caget1929 on superuser.com

M.A.R.

@JohnDvorak are you a trilobite?

SmokeDetector

10:05 AM

tpu- by Mithrandir

ArtOfCode

@Mithrandir /me wouldn't do such a thing either

John Dvorak

There used to be a time when mitochondria weren't a thing and oxygen was considered a poison

angussidney

doppelgreener

@ArtOfCode at the time, worth about $10

Magisch

Jun 8 '16 at 8:09, by Magisch

FR: A userscript where if you open a flag dialog it checks if that post was reported here in the last 10 minutes and lets you feedback <postid>: k directly from the flag dialog. Possibly akin to the checkbox "also send cv-pls" in the SOCVR script.

JAD

10:07 AM

@angussidney XKCD, is that you?

M.A.R.

@JohnDvorak the guy that invented mitochondria is an underrated genius

Magisch

that's a long time ago

John Dvorak

@M.A.R. same guy that invented DNA, too

ArtOfCode

metasmoke tells me the API is "almost 2 years" old

M.A.R.

@JohnDvorak and Edison thinks he's cool.

ArtOfCode

10:08 AM

and I did that for FDSC

Magisch

@ArtOfCode Sounds about right

M.A.R.

@Magisch duuuuuuude. That feels like literally figuratively yesterday

ArtOfCode

figurally

John Dvorak

@M.A.R. Maybe he was cold, and that's why he invented the heatbulb?

ArtOfCode

okay, out again for a while

M.A.R.

10:09 AM

Art passed out, realizing he's too old

Martin Sleziak

MathOverflow: what is duct cleaning? No link, but seems suspicious - maybe spam seed?

M.A.R.

@JohnDvorak I wonder what the heatbulb spam looked like

angussidney

@MartinSleziak looks like it

John Dvorak

would flag

Mithrandir

@MartinSleziak looks like they just forgot the link

!!/report mathoverflow.net/questions/294428/what-is-duct-cleaning

SmokeDetector

10:11 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported question: what is duct cleaning? by A.uddin on mathoverflow.net

M.A.R.

@MartinSleziak it's definitely about commutative algebra, so no

JAD

looks like it has little and less to do with maths at least

M.A.R.

@SmokeDetector K

SmokeDetector

tpu- by Floern

Mithrandir

actually, it's spam for Hepa Vacuum

M.A.R.

10:11 AM

Whatever.

Cerbrus

actually, it's gone

Martin Sleziak

Its's gone

Mithrandir

!!/watch hepa\Wvacuum

M.A.R.

Just spam. Link or no link

SmokeDetector

@Mithrandir Added hepa\Wvacuum to watchlist

Mithrandir

10:12 AM

ya, I nuked it

Martin Sleziak

!!/test Offering state of the art service right from the initial inspection to the cleanup. We start with using cameras that allow us to see what’s hiding inside you duct lines. We then use either a contact vacuum, which consists of us using a device to agitate and vacuum the lines to remove debris. We also use a reverse air technique which is a high-power vacuum that can remove debris with minimal agitation.

SmokeDetector

> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

Martin Sleziak

!!/test After cleaning has competed the technician will then use a Hepa Vacuum to clean up. This type of vacuum will minimize the dust in the house

SmokeDetector

> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

Mithrandir

it'll catch that last one after it restarts

M.A.R.

10:13 AM

Blacklist "dust in the house" on MO

Martin Sleziak

Yes, the post was too long to be posted in single message - that's why I posted as two test.

SmokeDetector

CI on afe5210 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev afe5210 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of hepa\Wvacuum by Mithrandir --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

Martin Sleziak

I have flagged it only as blatantly off-topic. Since it contains company name, I should probably have flagged it as spam.

SmokeDetector

Restart: API quota is 16226.

Mithrandir

@M.A.R. Setting up bad keywords for individual sites requires code-plunging

Martin Sleziak

10:13 AM

I'll know better next time.

doppelgreener

@SmokeDetector A+ feature, thanks whoever put the autoflag FP alarm together. :)

Looks like that post was left mostly intact but the spam redacted.

angussidney

@MartinSleziak thanks for letting us know about it!

Martin Sleziak

Well, thanks for all the responses.

John Dvorak

@doppelgreener being able to actually retract the flags would have been even better

doppelgreener

@JohnDvorak it did get marked as helpful though

John Dvorak

10:16 AM

oh, nice

M.A.R.

@MartinSleziak don't hesitate if it doesn't have a link. If it's not a question, and it's not relevant, it's spam

And don't take the message above out of context

John Dvorak

I wonder if that's universally true

M.A.R.

20 secs ago, by M.A.R.

And don't take the message above out of context

John Dvorak

too late

M.A.R.

Even truer if the guy keeps using "we"

Magisch

10:18 AM

taking out of context intensifies

M.A.R.

@Magisch at least don't exaggerate it!

John Dvorak

exaggerating

Magisch

> Everything is spam, always. Nuke the network

- M.A.R , 05.03.2018

M.A.R.

@Magisch nice, I can probably run for president now.

Extremism is celebrated.

angussidney

'When I said nuke the SPAM I meant microwave my lunch, not destroy half the posts across the entire network!'

M.A.R.

10:22 AM

I promise I will build a wall so tall to block every Asian's internet from infecting us.

I know not all Asians are spammers, but they're responsible for the most spam.

Glorfindel

... and the Indians will pay for it.

M.A.R.

@Glorfindel well, we're still negotiating that

John Dvorak

fun fact: India lies on its own continental plate, separate from the rest of Asia

but then again IP blocking based on tectonic plates would be difficult

M.A.R.

@JohnDvorak presidents can be right even when they're wrong

@JohnDvorak are you analyzing my election promise? You're fired

John Dvorak

I can agregre with that

shoots himself for his transgression against the language

M.A.R.

10:25 AM

-2

Q: i need help for write a program of looping process in java?

1.)Imagine the scale of the goal post is from 1 to 10. Dhoni, the goal keeper, stands at the mid point 5. Those kicks that are saved between the points 1 and 2 are likely to be a left corner save and those that are saved between the points 9 and 10 are likely to be a right corner save. Write a ...

Does he need help?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer: Roku Sliding Panel by Katherine on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Glorfindel

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body: Diminishing Fine Lines And Wrinkles by athleiler on graphicdesign.SE

M.A.R.

@JohnDvorak OK, I unfired you on your deadbed. Now I can make a martyr of you and win by a landslide

Glorfindel

!!/watch gorokuhdcp\.com

@SmokeDetector k

SmokeDetector

@Glorfindel Added gorokuhdcp\.com to watchlist

Nog Shine

@SmokeDetector tpu

M.A.R.

10:28 AM

Your sacrifice won't be forgotten

SmokeDetector

@NogShine Registered question as true positive and blacklisted user.

M.A.R.

@SmokeDetector K

I got to flag those even with you FIREy badarses

Glorfindel

!!/report stackoverflow.com/a/48163024/4751173

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How can I stream Youtube videos in my Roku Channel? by Katherine on stackoverflow.com

Cerbrus

Suggestion: "At present we cast up to 3 flags on posts we're confident are spam;" > "At present we cast up to 3 automated flags on posts we're confident are spam;" @Andy

SmokeDetector

10:29 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 17c1847 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of gorokuhdcp\.com by Glorfindel --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

M.A.R.

@SmokeDetector K

SmokeDetector

Restart: API quota is 16071.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: Andras Fiber - Easy-to-use and doesn’t make a mess by aisyhomas on workplace.SE

tpu- by Glorfindel

M.A.R.

@SmokeDetector K

ArtOfCode

@Cerbrus done

John Dvorak

poetic title, but missed rhyming opportunity. flagged.

doppelgreener

10:30 AM

> We never unilaterally nuke a post. There are currently 3 manual flags required in addition to the automatic flags to nuke a post; this increase proposal still retains at least one manual flag.

Cerbrus

@ArtOfCode Thanks

M.A.R.

@JohnDvorak it's a Haiku dumb dumb

doppelgreener

@Andy Technically if the one manual flag comes from a review here in the room, Charcoal has unilaterally nuked a post. Instead, the automated systems never unilaterally nuke a post.

M.A.R.

If it rhymes but doesn't rhyme, it's a Haiku

John Dvorak

Why not rhyme haikus?

ArtOfCode

10:31 AM

@doppelgreener eh, clear enough I think

Glorfindel

!!/watch rokuactivationcode\.com

SmokeDetector

@Glorfindel Added rokuactivationcode\.com to watchlist

M.A.R.

@JohnDvorak dude, he's busy posting a poem somewhere else

ArtOfCode

can always explain in comments

John Dvorak

@doppelgreener sanity check: what if a single post is reported twice?

M.A.R.

10:31 AM

Doesn't have time for minutiae

doppelgreener

@JohnDvorak smokey considers it to be already reported right?

ArtOfCode

@JohnDvorak metasmoke rejects the second report, still only 3 flags

John Dvorak

different revisions, I mean

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title: skin4up.com/claira-care/ by Nicknamq on apple.SE

tpu- by Glorfindel

M.A.R.

@SmokeDetector K

doppelgreener

10:32 AM

@JohnDvorak that sounds like it's worth testing

John Dvorak

it doesn't reject if they are reports for different revisions, IIUC

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body, +1 more: consequently, it lets you beautify your testosterone hormone stage. by Aloon19 Virk on superuser.com

Glorfindel

@JohnDvorak autoflagging only works on the first revision (e.g. to prevent vandalism from triggering autoflags)

SmokeDetector

CI on d83f1f1 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...

doppelgreener

@Glorfindel oh, nice.

John Dvorak

10:32 AM

@Glorfindel nice

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev d83f1f1 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of rokuactivationcode\.com by Glorfindel --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

M.A.R.

@SmokeDetector K

SmokeDetector

Restart: API quota is 16042.

doppelgreener

@ArtOfCode Would the training series pages happen to exist in a github repository somewhere? I'd be interested in proposing pull requests for changes/additions once I begin reviewing them.

M.A.R.

AFK a little bit

ArtOfCode

10:35 AM

@doppelgreener yup, they're part of the website. github.com/Charcoal-SE/charcoal-se.github.io

same as I said to Mag, they're intended as initiation not all the details ever

Magisch

@ArtOfCode so what you're saying is I should add 291 pages of minutiae on how to distinguish spam types?

ArtOfCode

I mean

if you like

they just won't be part of training docs :P

and we will spend the subsequent year debating every single character

Magisch

Do we have an official member / non member distinction atm?

doppelgreener

@ArtOfCode fantastic, thanks.

Magisch

Like, who is this for? People with privileges? People who hang in here?

ArtOfCode

10:37 AM

@Magisch nope, not really

that's half-deliberate

John Dvorak

@Magisch those who were given stickers?

ArtOfCode

@Magisch it's for people who are looking to get privileges

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported question: مشاهدة مباراة الوحدة والانصار by Yousef Ahmed on stackoverflow.com

ArtOfCode

we point 'em at that, say "come back when you've read that stuff"

SmokeDetector

tpu- by Glorfindel

Glorfindel

10:38 AM

!!/watch azamaraclubcruises\.com

SmokeDetector

@Glorfindel Added azamaraclubcruises\.com to watchlist

Magisch

@ArtOfCode I wonder if we're going to have to serialize and streamline the process of new people at some point

it's nice not having to, though

so we don't have to spend time policing labels

ArtOfCode

@Magisch maybe at some point, but it's low-volume enough right now that we can handle each one as it comes

Magisch

@ArtOfCode Aye

iBug

I found something interesting: shields.io

doppelgreener

10:39 AM

@ArtOfCode so that i can get a frame of reference, is there anything i mentioned here that you think would be clearly overboard for the training docs?

iBug

maybe we can add one or two to our README.md?

SmokeDetector

CI on de82dd9 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...

doppelgreener

@iBug shields.io is a cool thing. i just found out what it was a few weeks ago myself, though i'd been seeing it forever on github and NPM libraries. :)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev de82dd9 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of azamaraclubcruises\.com by Glorfindel --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

Restart: API quota is 15955.

iBug

Like the issue count and PR count

SmokeDetector

10:41 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, bad keyword in username, blacklisted website in body, +4 more: junivive.fr/phytolast-male-enhancement/ by Reducelant Garcinia on askubuntu.com

tpu- by Glorfindel

ArtOfCode

@doppelgreener Not particularly. If anything, "how to check the reasons" - since that's something that can be covered later in chat easily and doesn't really affect basic use of the stuff we have.

SmokeDetector

tpu by doppelgreener on What is the best way to seal caulk tube? [MS]

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: This is true in Islam religion by heena on islam.SE

iBug

in case it matters, I am not affiliated with shields.io

ArtOfCode

In general, just not overloading with detail. Each of those docs could get a bit longer, but I don't want to overload people with info or make them feel like it's endless

SmokeDetector

fp- by Glorfindel

ArtOfCode

10:42 AM

@iBug we might already be using 'em on some repos

...or maybe that was JF

doppelgreener

!!/watch dataturks\.com

SmokeDetector

@doppelgreener Added dataturks\.com to watchlist

doppelgreener

!!/report datascience.stackexchange.com/a/28635/47268

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Are there any tools to make text labeling faster? by yolo_does_not_detect_me on datascience.SE

iBug

@ArtOfCode I want to add the issue count and PR count to Smokey's repo

doppelgreener

10:42 AM

!!/report stats.stackexchange.com/a/331786/186338

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Text Annotation tools by yolo_does_not_detect_me on stats.SE

iBug

@doppelgreener Try "scan" next time

@iBug fp

@iBug eh, why not

:P

10:43 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body: Nutralyfe Garcinia South Africa King mackerel by janflerna12 on askubuntu.com

doppelgreener

like...

Glorfindel

@SmokeDetector how can that have a weight of 99?

doppelgreener

!!/scan dataturks.com

SmokeDetector

tpu- by John Dvorak

@doppelgreener That does not look like a valid post URL.

doppelgreener

oh

SmokeDetector

10:43 AM

tpu- by Glorfindel

doppelgreener

@iBug what's scan for & why would i use it?

angussidney

@Glorfindel ...that is a very good question

ArtOfCode

@doppelgreener glorified !!/report

angussidney

Aha

iBug

@doppelgreener scan a post, when you don't want to report

John Dvorak

10:44 AM

@Glorfindel because "manually reported" is a pretty good indicator of spam

ArtOfCode

actually sends it through findspam and gives it the proper reasons

doppelgreener

oh, so it's: "here, give this a look-over and see if you spot any flag reasons"?

gotcha

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

!!/test dataturks.com

SmokeDetector

> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

angussidney

2 records, no. 1 was manually reported and no. 2 had 'repeated URL at end of long post'

Glorfindel

10:44 AM

@JohnDvorak but the other manually reported answer has a weight of 94.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev d383bfc (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of dataturks\.com by doppelgreener --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

ArtOfCode

@Glorfindel metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/posts/by-url?url=//…

SmokeDetector

Restart: API quota is 15905.

John Dvorak

hm...

iBug

@doppelgreener exactly.

angussidney

10:45 AM

API fetches second record, thus making it seem like it has 99 weight

Glorfindel

ah, gotcha

Mithrandir

@Magisch the closest is probably /people

ArtOfCode

@doppelgreener yup, and if it doesn't find any it won't report

angussidney

@JohnDvorak and sadly not, because people keep misusing it on NAA

John Dvorak

@angussidney hey, it has 94

iBug

10:46 AM

for example, when I'm not sure if a post is spam (this is mine so definitely not)

ArtOfCode

so it's somewhere between 94% and 95% accurate

iBug

!!/scan stackoverflow.com/q/48578085/5958455

SmokeDetector

@iBug Post Why isn't it necessary to specialize for std::nullptr_t if there's a specialized function AND a templated function does not look like spam.

ArtOfCode

which is pretty consistent with the 95.4% human flagging accuracy

Magisch

@ArtOfCode thats atrocious though

iBug

10:47 AM

@ArtOfCode Can we use rounding instead of flooring?

ArtOfCode

@Magisch it ain't great

@iBug [status-declined]

Magisch

95,4% means you're getting 1 false positive every 20 flags

ArtOfCode

We technically could, but that has ramifications for autoflagging that I don't want to have to analyse :P

doppelgreener

I've updated my autoflagging preferences to require 100-120 min. weight, and minimum of 3 reasons.

Magisch

I get a crisis when I go below 99,50%

iBug

10:49 AM

I'm going for personal affairs and I'll come back with a PR about the badges in README.md.

in an hour or so

Mithrandir

I still think it would be reasonable to require peeps to have autoflagging conditions with at least a minimum 99.75% accuracy, preferably 100%

I keep meaning to throw up an issue but that Instant Gratification Monkey keeps getting in the way

doppelgreener

@Mithrandir i set those because it brought my autoflag minimum up to 99.92% and 99.98%

Mithrandir

@doppelgreener yeah, but other people still have low settings

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, +4 more: supplementschoice.com/dream-fit-garcinia/ by user278752 on apple.SE

Glorfindel

@SmokeDetector k

ArtOfCode

10:54 AM

@Mithrandir 99.75%. Done.

SmokeDetector

@Magisch Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

@MAR Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

ArtOfCode

bahaha

SmokeDetector

@AshishAhuja Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

Magisch

lel

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user: How can I stream Youtube videos in my Roku Channel? by Katherine on stackoverflow.com

Glorfindel

10:55 AM

flags SmokeDetector for spamming this room

SmokeDetector

@Ferrybig Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

ArtOfCode

way to confirm I did it, Smokey :P

SmokeDetector

@JonasCz Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

Magisch

I think I had 99,50% or something

SmokeDetector

@Kevin Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

@quartata Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

doppelgreener

10:55 AM

[updates] So... I adjusted further for All Sites, two conditions each give me 100%: 280 weight and 3 flag reasons, or 140 weight and 4 flag reasons. On another 9 specific sites (SU, MSE, Arqade, Ask Ubuntu, Finance, Ask Different, Graphic Design, Drupal, The Workplace) 100 weight and 3 reasons gives me 99.98%, which is Good Enough.

SmokeDetector

@MarkHim Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

tpu- by Glorfindel

@7ochem Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

Ferrybig

So smoke is going to spam everyone now? :-P

SmokeDetector

@cullub Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

Magisch

>
Edit Flagging Condition

This condition doesn't match the current requirements, and is disabled. It may have been automatically disabled. Here's what's wrong:

Accuracy must be over 99.75%

Flags enabled

Minimum Weight

Maximum Poster Reputation

Minimum Reason Count

Sites

99.74%

SmokeDetector

@River Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%

ArtOfCode

10:56 AM

@doppelgreener useful graph: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/flagging/conditions/sandbox

Magisch

Literally 0,01%

really?

Mithrandir

@ArtOfCode thanks

SmokeDetector

@NVZ Your flag condition was disabled: Accuracy must be over 99.75%