Charcoal HQ

3:00 PM

Heh, 32 "no longer needed" declined comment flags on meta... There goes my %

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: The best way to keep my private keys safe? by cypher rock on bitcoin.SE

Petter Friberg

here, GH is internal stuff, MSE was more general on starting to auto-flag...

SmokeDetector

tpu- by Cerbrus

ArtOfCode

@PetterFriberg look, we're using user accounts at the moment, because that's what made most sense at the time. Right now, it still makes sense to me. It's a debate that's worth having, but probably not at the same time as the 5 flags debate.

WELZ

!!/test cypherock.github.io

SmokeDetector

3:01 PM

> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

WELZ

!!/watch cypherock\.github\.io

Byte Commander

@ArtOfCode about 98.9%

SmokeDetector

@WELZ Added cypherock\.github\.io to watchlist

Petter Friberg

sure ok, yeah I will ping you next week;)

Magisch

side note, just under a third of my global flags are autoflags

@ArtOfCode Is there a particular reason why I don't have core on MS anymore?

SmokeDetector

3:03 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user: How to make totally secure Bitcoin transactions? by cypher rock on bitcoin.SE

tpu- by WELZ

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev cbc3ebd (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of cypherock\.github\.io by WELZ --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

There's # 2

quartata

@Magisch it's automatic now, need a certain number of feedbacks per month

SmokeDetector

Restart: API quota is 13366.

quartata

Andy lost it too lol

ArtOfCode

@Magisch guessing the auto system removed it

Magisch

3:04 PM

o_O

ok then

quartata

I probably don't have it anymore either

Magisch

neither does undo :o

Glorfindel

The 'Autoflagger' tab on the new dashboard includes manual flags cast via FIRE/metasmoke. Is that intentional?

quartata

Yeah personally I think the new core system is awful and gamifies feedback but I honestly wasn't really paying attention when it was rolled out

Andy

Don't worry, we still handle spam :) side eye glance at the SO queue

quartata

3:06 PM

@Magisch hahaha yep

ArtOfCode

@quartata uh

y'know that's literally how it's always worked right

Andy

It's featured now

quartata

Thomas also doesn't have it

@ArtOfCode I mean the continual aspect of it

sd k

SmokeDetector

@quartata [:43216699] That message is not a report.

ArtOfCode

surely the continuous aspect makes sense

i.e. restricts core to "current" contributors

quartata

3:08 PM

No it really doesn't. People don't become not core just because of a small dip in feedback. Do you think Undo isn't core?

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

Spam? stackoverflow.com/a/49113437/5781745 Username is the same as URL

quartata

not everyone does feedback. Usually feedback is just rubber stamping the person who was faster

ArtOfCode

aye, agree we need a pinning system in place, but this is there to take the majority of work out of it

Glorfindel

Also, suppose you're on vacation for a month. Do you lose your core role, then?

quartata

sd 2- k

SmokeDetector

3:09 PM

[:43216807] <skipped>
[:43216699] <skipped>
[:43216695] That message is not a report.

quartata

@Glorfindel tripleee didn't just because he had so many

ArtOfCode

@Glorfindel yes, but given that you can happily do 60 feedbacks in 2 days... eh

WELZ

@quartata I think using sd [report] only works on SD last message

ArtOfCode

time period can be extended trivially, it's a setting in metasmoke

Andy

@Glorfindel Solution: No vacations

quartata

3:10 PM

sd 5- k

SmokeDetector

[:43216834] <skipped>
[:43216807] <skipped>
[:43216699] <skipped>
[:43216695] <skipped>
[:43216674] <skipped>
[:43216636] That message is not a report.

WELZ

I like the idea of pinning (maybe it should be temporary, like a 3 month pin etc.)

quartata

you're killing me here

Glorfindel

@quartata you can follow the message numbers to see what Smokey thinks you're feeding back to.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Export data from mongoDb to csv by Studio 3T on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How to export mongoDB data into a CSV format? by Studio 3T on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

quartata

3:11 PM

!!/feedback bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/71804 tpu

checkmate

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: how to import excel file (XLSX) to mongoDB by Studio 3T on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

WELZ

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs not supposed to feedback your own reported posts.

3

ArtOfCode

@SmokeDetector k

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Cannot connect Studio 3t for MongoDB v2.4.6 via SSH by Studio 3T on stackoverflow.com

Cerbrus

The question just got featured.

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

3:11 PM

I'm not doing it through fire. AF wasn't flagging for me

SmokeDetector

naa- by WELZ on Export data from mongoDb to csv [MS]

ArtOfCode

@SmokeDetector k

SmokeDetector

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs on Export data from mongoDb to csv [MS]

ArtOfCode

@SmokeDetector k

Undo

Thought: Text is such a difficult way to explain the system. I feel like if I could sit down with folks one-by-one and answer questions that way, we'd have a far easier time.

WELZ

3:12 PM

he's about to go back to 1 rep :S

Undo

This is probably true of many things.

WELZ

@Undo make a live QandA

ArtOfCode

@Undo bahahaha, see you next year

Undo

@ArtOfCode maybe you can re-read the transcript. We'll get done at about the same time :P

ArtOfCode

@WELZ we did throw about the idea of doing a town hall chat, but that's not quite the same

Glorfindel

3:12 PM

5 mins ago, by Andy

It's featured now

quartata

Just go and visit Singapore I guess

John Dvorak

Should it be enforced that people don't feedback on their own reports (but can still cast flags)?

ArtOfCode

Prepare for sidebar explosion

Undo

Cache is ~10m IIRC

SmokeDetector

fp- by Makyen

Conflicting feedback on Cannot connect Studio 3t for MongoDB v2.4.6 via SSH.

ArtOfCode

3:14 PM

@JohnDvorak eh, not overly fussed. It's an etiquette thing, not the end of the world, someone'll pick it up if you get it wrong

SmokeDetector

Conflicting feedback on Cannot connect Studio 3t for MongoDB v2.4.6 via SSH.

quartata

and by explosion we mean site mods getting mad about us forcing their pins off

SmokeDetector

Conflicting feedback on Cannot connect Studio 3t for MongoDB v2.4.6 via SSH.

quartata

Wish the sidebar would just expand

ArtOfCode

@SmokeDetector yes okay shush

Undo

3:14 PM

@quartata It does?

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

xD

quartata

@Undo not very much

Undo

Any revisits to the title?

quartata

electric boogaloo joke?

ArtOfCode

Nah, works for me

quartata

3:16 PM

empire strikes back?

auto-flag 2: episode 3?

John Dvorak

The last flag (is manual)?

quartata

just spitballing here

Undo

episode 5

WELZ

thousand

quartata

i wouldn't be that optimistic

@JohnDvorak hehe

Magisch

3:20 PM

I'm not too miffed about losing core

gives other people some more autoflags

ArtOfCode

We're on sidebars

4

Undo

I lost core too. Wondered what happened to all my flags :P

Ah, that title wraps nicely

Andy

prods cache with a stick

Magisch

285 views went to 358 in the time it took me to refresh the post

well then

quartata

Ooh I've got a good title

Undo

3:22 PM

I am concerned that it took too long to get that featured, and we've already seeded the conversation with issues that have already been brought up. Hope I'm wrong.

Magisch

we've got only "against" answers so far though

quartata

"FPs over 300 weight: 1 TPs over 300 weight: 30,000 someone who is good at the economy please help me my spam is dying"

Magisch

@Undo Thats exactly what happened, imo

We'll have a discussion exclusively on how opt in vs opt out will work, with a side of "what if people are wrong"

Undo

Two of them are just tooling, though. Easy to address, if we know what they want.

Magisch

it remains that no single answer is like "this is a good idea"

John Dvorak

3:24 PM

/me tosses the big fancy meta post on his secondary monitor

Magisch

they're all "I'm against this because"

Undo

pretty standard

Henders

@Undo My core role is gone too but I have everything else

Undo

The idea of Smokey turning everything into paperclips is kinda entertaining, though

ArtOfCode

see this new core system is actually just removing everyone's core role in an effort to get me all the flags

Magisch

3:25 PM

@ArtOfCode I now see the purpose of this system

Glorfindel

@Magisch the upvotes on the question indicate "this is a good idea".

Undo

If the existing answers get traction, it might be time to pull out the "cast a custom flag on each post too" idea.

Henders

@ArtOfCode What is the new core system? I think I missed this :P

Magisch

Now that you mention it you've been gaining a lot of rep on IPS ... @ArtOfCode .... that couldn't possibly have to do with the 300+ private keys you're sitting on?

Andy

@Undo I hate this idea.

Undo

3:26 PM

Generally don't want to do that, but it'd be possible.

ArtOfCode

@Magisch heh, I don't have 'em

JAD

@Undo you could also do that on a per-site basis

Undo

@Andy I do too, for a variety of reasons, but if it's our path to 5...

ArtOfCode

but no, it's all off that one answer

Magisch

@Undo That would be so incredibly spammy

Undo

3:26 PM

eh, not really. The queue batches everything on a post up

Magisch

I mean for the mods who have to deal

right now it feels like the predicted outcome is worse then what we started with

JAD

Well, you could make it opt-in, for sites that want a little more info/headsup whenever something passes by

Andy

Still, you've seen the SO queue explode where someone (you know who you are... ;) ) goes their their weekly process of pointing out bad things.

Undo

Gotta run (great timing)

Magisch

If we make it opt in and configurable a bunch of sites won't care and we'll end up autoflagging a lot less

@Andy That weekly process is about to expand to include serial downvoting, btw

Andy

3:28 PM

Anyway, we have 4 answers so far and just popped up around the network. Let's wait and see how it plays out.

Magisch

(On request of bhargav)

JAD

uhm, I read undo's message as a "do both" idea, both autoflag and mod flag for the site's mods

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: Strange behavior in Studio3T/Mongo by Studio 3T on stackoverflow.com

Glorfindel

@JAD please, no. Can you imagine how many pointless flags we need to handle (mark helpful) on Ask Different?

JAD

@SmokeDetector f

@Glorfindel which is why I mentioned opt-in.

Andy

3:29 PM

@Glorfindel Declined: Use standard flags to help us prioritize issues.

I'd make so many enemies in this room

Glorfindel

@Andy that, too.

JAD

Reading Journeyman Geek's answer, there might be a use case here

Cause if smoke detector/charcoal goes down, those users would be our backup. There's certain situations where as a mod, I'd actually like to see spam flags so I know what's going on. I occasionally get slightly confused spam flags under "other". Its harder for me to nuke accounts. And well, at some point spammers are going to evolve their tactics anyway, so I would rather a system that works well, and keeps people involved in the loop for "strange things" over just getting rid of all of it with minimal intervention cause "its more efficient. — Journeyman Geek 3 hours ago

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: How do we enable auto suggestion in studio 3t by Studio 3T on stackoverflow.com

JAD

@SmokeDetector f

Cerbrus

@JAD That comment covers multiple subjects.

What exactly is the use case?

JAD

3:33 PM

> There's certain situations where as a mod, I'd actually like to see spam flags so I know what's going on.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: GROUP BY equivalent in MongoDB? by Studio 3T on stackoverflow.com

thesecretmaster

@Glorfindel I thought that upvotes on the question are "This is significant/important", not "this is a good idea"

SmokeDetector

fp- by Glorfindel

New metasmoke user 'Cursed' created

Glorfindel

> On posts tagged feature-request, voting indicates agreement or disagreement with the proposed change rather than just the quality or usefulness of the post itself.

(meta.stackexchange.com/help/whats-meta)

Yes, this is tagged [discussion], I know.

thesecretmaster

I think the answers are a better indicator, but that might just be me.

Vogel612

3:40 PM

Question about the MSE post for 5 autoflags.

on one hand it mentions that the threshold is always at least 99.75%. Then two paragraphs later the "baseline certainty" is given as 99.5%.

@Andy did you miss a 7 there?

Cerbrus

That percentage was updated a few hours ago, in the system

Looks like one was missed while updating the post

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Ashley Medway' created

New metasmoke user 'Smi' created

ArtOfCode

here we go

Glorfindel

that link was probably too high up in the post :)

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

What happens if I attempt to create a second MS account?

ArtOfCode

3:50 PM

shrug

Vogel612

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs now that is an interesting question...

ArtOfCode

think it'll fail on a duplicate unique key

thesecretmaster

@Glorfindel Y'know, if we're assuming that downvotes on the question are disagreement, why do the answers have more upvotes than the question has downvotes?

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Ovaryraptor' created

JAD

uuh

SmokeDetector

3:56 PM

New metasmoke user 'DJanssens' created

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Unable to connect to mongodb database via Studio3T with Authentication by Studio 3T on stackoverflow.com

naa- by Jarko Dubbeldam

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body: HTML image not responsive on mobile by Marcelo Benvenuto on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Facebook API - suddenly not working anymore by T Videos on stackoverflow.com

Vogel612

@SmokeDetector that's what happens when companies answer support tickets on SO ....

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Import dataset into MongoDB by Studio 3T on stackoverflow.com

fp- by Jarko Dubbeldam on HTML image not responsive on mobile [MS]

tpu- by Jarko Dubbeldam on Facebook API - suddenly not working anymore [MS]

JAD

yep, I'm not sure about the last one.

Vogel612

@SmokeDetector why does that one come up so late?

SmokeDetector

@Vogel612 Post - Username similar to website

Petter Friberg

3:59 PM

@Cerbrus lots of new "experienced users" :D

JAD

@Vogel612 they only just now got blacklisted as user

Vogel612

naa blacklists a user?

SmokeDetector

fp- by Floern

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

!!/watch tvideos\.net

JAD

no, scroll up a bit

SmokeDetector

4:00 PM

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs You don't have code privileges, but I've created PR#1679 for you.

New metasmoke user 'Luca' created

JAD

metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/domains/19267

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Almo' created

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: How to rotate an image about a point that is not the image's center point using MATLAB? by user9446717 on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

tpu by chade_

WELZ

!!/watch tvideos\.net

SmokeDetector

@WELZ Added tvideos\.net to watchlist

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body, pattern-matching website in body, +2 more: This system is available on the internet by Areast 19 on workplace.SE

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

CI on 3e4fba4 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 3e4fba4 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of tvideos\.net by WELZ --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

Restart: API quota is 12594.

New metasmoke user 'Zenoo' created

Cerbrus

@PetterFriberg More experienced than bot "sockpuppet" accounts.

Matter of accountability.

Petter Friberg

4:11 PM

if you say so.. I however would trust the bot...

Cerbrus

Because you trust SD / MS, right?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: If a device specifies that it can support sd cards up to 64gb, would larger sizes work as well? by vyhjjfg on superuser.com

tpu- by WELZ

tpu by Vogel612

New metasmoke user 'Pavel' created

WELZ

We're getting lots of new ms users with all this publicity. hehe

Cerbrus

Yea, that's always the case with these meta questions :P

chade_

@WELZ Thanks to SE pinning that post network wide ^^

SmokeDetector

4:21 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body, +3 more: What are the effective components of Nitronemax? by Areast 19 on superuser.com

tpu- by Floern

New metasmoke user 'Manu' created

New metasmoke user 'Scott' created

Petter Friberg

@Cerbrus all these new accounts flagging on different sites, I can't see how that's helpful for moderators on those site, I also would not be surprised if many are to get some "free flags" not because they know something about SD etc. but yeah we can discuss that another time.

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'BradleyDotNET' created

New metasmoke user 'Wheat Wizard' created

Jake Symons

@Art so if we wanted to increase autoflags would that technical stuff be done internally or would it need SE mods and other people to do it.

Catija

@JakeSymons There's no need for mods to do anything at this point.

ArtOfCode

4:38 PM

@JakeSymons it's code changes, so... Internal

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'David Grinberg' created

New metasmoke user 'Phelype Oleinik' created

Andy

Graph needed, stat!

Is it mostly answers that you end up flagging, or mostly questions? — ChrisW 26 secs ago

Catija

Seems sort of half and half-ish... maybe depends on the site?

quartata

mostly questions

Jake Symons

I see our ~~advertising~~ meta post has got a lot of new users :)

SmokeDetector

4:44 PM

New metasmoke user 'Laf' created

Jake Symons

This is a hard one

Presumably the spam-estimation metric isn't binary until some cut-off is applied. In the case of the false-positives, did they just barely make the cut-off? And if so, might the number of spam flags be lower in edge-cases? — Nat 2 mins ago

Catija

Not really... that's already the plan... they're only going to autoflag five times if the chance of it being spam is, essentially, 100%.

quartata

@JF (four months later lol) how much experience do you have with this?

what's the browser support like?

Glorfindel

@ChrisW questions: 28036 vs. 2470 answers. — Glorfindel 27 secs ago

I knew it would be questions, but I didn't expect a ratio this high.

Andy

Thanks @Glorfindel

Henders

4:56 PM