The Nineteenth Byte

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:03

@phase No, it isn't; it's a creation of mine drawn by a friend.

Sp3000

@Dennis If you were to do this challenge, you'd outgolf everybody anyhow. :P — Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ 1 min ago

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I think the problem is more the fact that the bonus should be reconsidered :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Sp3000 I think it makes it more interesting :P

If people abuse it, then they're clever, and that's something.

Sp3000

Well... expect a 5 byte or so from Dennis then

(probably something like "..."_S/)~)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Still, it'd be interesting. ^_^

Sp3000

:/

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ :/ :/

Optimizer

12:20

:\ :\

Martin Büttner

Yaaaaay, after almost 2.5 years, my balancing group answer on SO finally hit gold. :)

Sp3000

Nice :D

Doorknob

13:26

looks like you, doesn't it? :P

@Mego it uses the Fractal Flame algorithm described here: flam3.com/flame.pdf. I made a short presentation but it's not anywhere online; I might edit the README though for a description of how it works

Optimizer

@Doorknob HAHAHAHAHA

it has the scarf too

Calvin's Hobbies

14:03

Do we have a challenge about writing a program such that if any length N contiguous substring is removed (1 <= N < len(program)) the program errors? (In its full form the program would be required to be a quine or something.)

Optimizer

nice

+1

sidevotes too

Calvin's Hobbies

?

Optimizer

I like the idea

dont think so it has been done

Calvin's Hobbies

I feel like something similar has been done

but not sure

Martin Büttner

Does anyone know if subset sum or partition are still NP-hard if we give the size of the subset/partition as an additional input?

@PeterTaylor maybe? ^

oh, it must be, otherwise we could reduce subset sum or partition to this modified version by simply iterating over all possible N which would still be polynomial

Geobits

14:13

@Calvin'sHobbies I think that was at least discussed as a general rule for [code-bowling], but I don't know if it was really used. Something like "make the longest program doing task X you can such that you can't remove any part of it".

Optimizer

but here we have the shortest program.

(^ assumption)

Geobits

Yea, it's not exactly the same. Just bringing it up in case that's where the "seems familiar" feeling comes from.

Also, WTF?

Optimizer

WTF - true, but why is it unclear?

I think its completely clear. The only thing I feel is that its a troll.

Martin Büttner

@PeterTaylor @Sp3000 Okay, I think I can prove that the vector permutation problem I posed last week is NP-hard then (minimising the absolute value of the scalar product of two vectors). We can reduce the partition problem onto this as follows: For every M from 1 to N-1 (where N is the set's size), assign the set elements to one vector and let the other vector contain M 1s and N-M -1s. If the minimal permutation yields 0 we have a solution to the partition problem.

Optimizer

someone should answer, maybe it saves the daughter ..

Martin Büttner

14:22

We can do the same with subset sum, by using 1 and 0 in the second vector.

@Lembik ^ see my last two messages

Rainbolt

Adele is finally out of my head. My roommate had Hello on repeat all weekend and that did the trick.

Now I've got Dido's White Flag stuck. No idea where I heard it...

Optimizer

is it any better if you get a dubstep tune stuck instead?

Rainbolt

Dubstep doesn't really get stuck in my head

Optimizer

good for you sir, good for you

Rainbolt

Grinding gears and wub wubs sound great coming out of my car, but when they play in my head they sound like grinding gears and wub wubs.

Kinda makes me cringe just thinking about it

Optimizer

14:32

I was hoping for a pun

you disappoint me

Rainbolt

I wub puns

Optimizer

puns wub you too

Martin Büttner

Do we have a challenge/would a challenge (plain code golf) be interesting to map N to N^m (where N is the natural numbers, and m is an input parameter)?

Optimizer

what is the mapping operation?

Martin Büttner

I think I'd allow any bijective map

although I can't think of anything that's easy to implement other than going along (generalised) diagonals

Optimizer

14:40

so these are N integers?

Martin Büttner

N is ℕ

Optimizer

natural numbers?

Martin Büttner

yes

"map N to N^m (where N is the natural numbers, and m is an input parameter)"

Optimizer

so N -> N mapping?

ok

we already had some bijective mapping based challenge, no?

Martin Büttner

there's this related challenge: codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/5809/8478

ah, we also have this which maps N to Z^2: codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/48705/8478

New Main Posts

14:47

0

Q: Convert base 10 to base prime

Write a program to convert a base 10 number to a base prime-number. This program will take a number input from STDIN (or equivalent) and output the number in the new base. This is code-golf, normal rules apply, shortest program wins. What is a base prime This system is based off prime fact...

code-golf

JimmyJazzx

I feel like you could do that (base10) Challenge in one line with Mathematica, just not sure how.

Martin Büttner

@JimmyJazzx It would probably be more or less a translation of this CJam code, it would just be a lot more fiddly ;) q~mf_W=){mp},\fe=W%0e|

the last three bytes aren't needed if we don't have to handle 1

@Geobits I think the interesting part of this challenge is not the factoring, but inserting the zeroes for factors that are missing.

Sp3000

That looks way too efficient to be right :P

JimmyJazzx

Cant Tell if that is a Winky face or part of the code... I need to get better at reading CJam...

4

Martin Büttner

@Sp3000 fair enough: q~_mf\){mp},\fe=W%0e|

Geobits

14:58

Maybe. With some factoring methods the zeros would be self evident (assuming you have a list of primes).

Calvin's Hobbies

@Optimizer Yes. Though I'm having trouble coming up with a 4 or 5 char do-nothing python program that has this property

Sp3000

There we go :)

Martin Büttner

never mind...

can save one more byte though q~_){mp},\mffe=W%0e|

Sp3000

@Calvin'sHobbies Is the property just the removing part or are we trying to quine as well?

Calvin's Hobbies

Just removing the parts. Not sure if I'll end up making it about quines as well

Sp3000

15:02

Would just a function name be valid? e.g. range

Calvin's Hobbies

Actually yeah, though not a super interesting example

But thanks :)

Sp3000

How interesting do you want it? :P

Optimizer

how about hello world?

Sp3000

Hmm actually I kinda see the problem now. Dropping a whole contiguous substring means you need to do everything in one statement, or else you can just drop a statement

HW sounds pretty tricky actually :P

Martin Büttner

@Sp3000 at least the other statements must break if that statement is missing

Calvin's Hobbies

15:08

@Sp3000 Just something with more tokens as a small starter example to get the point across better. e.g. (x=3) is close - errors in 12 of 14 cases.

Sp3000

Well I was thinking of keeping only the first statement

Martin Büttner

@Sp3000 yeah, that's hardest to turn into an error

Calvin's Hobbies

@Optimizer Yeah, I'm leaning towards constant output since doing much more seems very tricky. (but not HW specifically since esolangs might e able to exploit that phrase)

no

Optimizer

"Remove me not" ?

JimmyJazzx

Wouldn't HW be better at Excluding Esolangs Because most of them would be able to be golfed down to a few Characters making it harder to make a non-redundant line of code?

Calvin's Hobbies

15:19

@JimmyJazzx Some esolangs output Hello, world! with a 1 char command. And a 1 char program trivially satisfies the criteria

Optimizer

some do without any character too

Sp3000

I do believe all the valid 3 char ones are builtin names

... oh nope, also (backtick)(digit)(backtick)

For Python 2, at least

TimmyD

The program errors or the program doesn't output what it's supposed to -- those are two separate indicators.

Calvin's Hobbies

@Sp3000 Thanks, I might use this

Sp3000

4 char's up to eval, this will take a while :/

btw for completeness: the valid 2-char ones are id plus the ones you'd expect, i.e. (), "", {}, []

Optimizer

15:30

Geobits

> Goofus goes home early to his family. Gallant stays late one too many times, setting off a chain of events leading to divorce.

Rainbolt

One way or another, bad long term effects

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

15:50

How do we feel about lambda calculus in coding challenges?

Sp3000

16:03

@Calvin'sHobbies Will be interested to see how answers go (btw 4 chars still only up to True :P)

New Main Posts

1

Q: Programmming a Pristine World

Let's define a pristine program as a program that does not have any errors itself but will error if you modify it by removing any contiguous substring of N characters, where 1 <= N < program length. For example, the three character Python 2 program `8` is a pristine program (thanks, Sp) becau...

code-golf restricted-source

JimmyJazzx

I feel like the wikipedia page left more questions then answers for what lambda calculus is. This Caused me to Doubt my programming skills and retreat to the safety of Excel. others may feel differently. :)

Sp3000

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ We've had some before - it's okay? I guess

@Calvin'sHobbies 4 chars just found the (backtick)(two-char pristine)(backtick) programs. (also I left '' out of the previous 2-char list oops)

Just if you wanted something a bit longer as an example :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Sp3000 Fantastic! Thanks

Sp3000

... and that's it for the 4 chars, apparently :/

Martin Büttner

16:11

@Calvin'sHobbies You might want to put some emphasis on the fact that the output should contain only that word (and the optional newline).

Calvin's Hobbies

ok

Sp3000

Man, ShaFuck looked like a good idea until I remembered that each 1024-byte chunk only maps to 20 BF operations, and I highly doubt anyone can golf the BF down that low

(although that's probably the least of all worries)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

16:28

0

A: Write a Program that Writes a function BUT in a different language!

JavaScript to Lambda Calculus, 21 bytes (This uses the linked document as a basis.) x=>`λa(${x}(add a))` Say input is 5. Then this becomes: "λa(5(add a))"

Lambda Calculus ^_^

quartata

I just finished a Chef answer to this: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/6043/…

However it is too long to put in an answer

Κριτικσι Λίθος

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fibonacci + FizzBuzz = Fibo Nacci! Your challenge is to create a Fibo Nacci program! A Fibo Nacci program outputs the first 100 Fibonacci numbers (starting from 1). If the Fibonacci number is divisible by 2, then output Fibo instead of the number. The same goes with if the Fibonacci number is...

Sp3000

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Er... which lambda calculus would this be? I don't think pure lambda calculus has add directly

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Sp3000 It isn't pure. See the link. Should I make it pure? That might be a while ^^"

Sp3000

Rather, why not just do Scheme?

Κριτικσι Λίθος

16:34

Please tell me how can this challenge be improved. Any suggestions are welcome.

Rainbolt

By the way, there is a bot that will announce new sandbox posts in the chat

Κριτικσι Λίθος

@Rainbolt There is nothing wrong with being punctual :)

Rainbolt

But there is something wrong with being redundant

New Sandboxed Posts

possible duplicate of A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges‌

Κριτικσι Λίθος

I see your point...

Rainbolt

16:38

The timing of that was perfect lol

And Dennis is helping us out

Dennis

:)

Κριτικσι Λίθος

lol

But seriously, how can my challenge be improved?

quartata

0

A: We're no strangers to code golf, you know the rules, and so do I

Chef, 43376 bytes This is too long to fit in an answer, here's the Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/Cqrmwmim Metagolf I did not generate this by hand, instead I wrote a small Python script to do it: import sys def varName(c): if(c=='\n'): return 'z'; elif(c==' '): return 'Z'; elif(...

kill me

Geobits

It seems you don't really need to check divisibility on that (although that's probably the shorter way to do it). For Fibo, you start at 2, skip two, fibo, skip two, fibo, etc. For Nacci, start at 3, skip three, nacci, skip three, nacci, etc.

Rainbolt

@ΚριτικσιΛίθος One thing I noticed is that if the number is divisible by 6, I should output FiboNacciFiboNacci

Κριτικσι Λίθος

16:42

@Rainbolt No, you should just output FiboNacci

Rainbolt

Why?

Geobits

Because that's the common sense way to do it for non-pedants :P

But yes, that could be worded slightly better.

Rainbolt

If - else if - else if

Κριτικσι Λίθος

Feel free to edit my question.

Rainbolt

Okay

I did the minimum amount of work to satisfy a pedant.

A bulleted list might make it easier to read

New Main Posts

16:48

0

Q: The challange - sqrt(2)

You must calculate sqrt(2) in the shortest length you can, minimal 100000 number. So BEGIN! You have 24 hours for this tasks

code-challenge

Κριτικσι Λίθος

@Rainbolt I changed it into a bullet list

Geobits

Yea, the bullets look better.

Rainbolt

Now you just need a gun.

Geobits

Can't you lend me one? You're in Texas, I hear there are at least seven guns there.

Optimizer

i am sure every state has at least 7 guns

Κριτικσι Λίθος

16:53

7*50 = at least 350 guns in the whole of USA

Geobits

The math checks out.

According to some estimates I've seen, there are approximately a million times that many guns in the US.

Rainbolt

Does that 350 figure include Washington DC? Or territories like Guam?

Optimizer

WHAT?? ITS OVER 9000!!???

Rainbolt

That reminds me, I just started watching One Punch Man and it is hilarious (the first villain looks kinda like Piccolo)

Sp3000

@Calvin'sHobbies Need clarification on the Malbolge answer - what happens if a subprogram takes input?

Optimizer

16:57

wow, due to my earlier conversation?

Rainbolt

If by earlier you mean the comment directly above, then yes.

Optimizer

I meant, I was talking about OPM earlier this weekend

here

Geobits

Overly Petulant Man?

Rainbolt

Office of Personnel Management?

@Optimizer I didn't see that conversation

Κριτικσι Λίθος

Ordinary Pooping Man?

Optimizer

16:59

ok

TheDoctor

@ΚριτικσιΛίθος uh

Geobits

Obvious Punchline Mangling?

Optimizer

One Piece Manga

TheDoctor

obviously python, man

Rainbolt

I saw an ad while I was watching God Eater. It was so ridiculous that I decided to watch the first episode.

Geobits

16:59

Obscure Perl Method

Optimizer

oh, you've seen god eater too?

Κριτικσι Λίθος

Object Programming Man

Optimizer

Oriented Programming Man

Geobits

Oops, Pardon Me.

Κριτικσι Λίθος

Oriental Programming Man

TheDoctor

17:01

TheDoctor, The Future

4.9k 3 24 58

so close to 5k

Geobits

If you want 5k you should be on the site instead of chat. Rep is not often given out in here :P

Optimizer

+1

Κριτικσι Λίθος

It would be cooler if you received at least one rep for every star...

Geobits

Oh good lord no :o

Κριτικσι Λίθος

STAR THE CARROT: ^

Geobits

17:03

No

TheDoctor

@ΚριτικσιΛίθος carrot.html

Optimizer

^

Κριτικσι Λίθος

carrot.css

TheDoctor

5

A: Pi Calculation Code Golf

TI CAS, 35 lim(x*(1/(tan((180-360/x)/2))),x,∞)

I looked back at this and i completely forget how it works :P — TheDoctor Nov 9 '14 at 0:06

Geobits

limit ~30s my friend — JonnyWerden 3 mins ago

Calvin's Hobbies

17:07

@Sp3000 Does it error regardless of what is input?

Sp3000

I don't know Malbolge enough to say

But I'd probably guess at yes

Κριτικσι Λίθος

carrot.html.css.js.asp.java.class.pde.c.cpp.cs.app.plist.pptx.docx.xlsx.png.pdf.‌jpg.mp4.tiff.mov.rb.py.sh.exe

Calvin's Hobbies

@Sp3000 That would be ok I suppose as long as it errors no matter what eventually.

TimmyD

@ΚριτικσιΛίθος I think my antivirus program just barfed.

Geobits

error: 'carrot.h' not found

2

JimmyJazzx

17:08

-1 for using xlsx. The one excel format that doesn't support VBA

Optimizer

-1 for using VBA

JimmyJazzx

;(

Optimizer

winky sad face?

TheDoctor

casts delvote

Geobits

-1 for the carrot in general

Sp3000

17:08

@Calvin'sHobbies k, would you like to post a comment clarifying that on the answer? Just for some official word :P

JimmyJazzx

The Sadness is because I only code is VBA. The winky is because i know its true....

Calvin's Hobbies

done

Κριτικσι Λίθος

Now its on PPCG

Sp3000

Hmm I almost want to say I've confirmed the Malbolge answer is valid, but 1) the interpreter I have doesn't check for infinite loops, so it doesn't give the same runtime error as the online one linked and 2) I don't know about the input thing

Geobits

@ΚριτικσιΛίθος By the way, there is a bot that will announce new challenge posts in the chat.

Calvin's Hobbies

17:14

@Sp3000 If it comes down to it I'll choose the answer that has the most veracity

Geobits

You should choose the one with the most voracity instead.

New Main Posts

2

Q: Fibonacci + Fizz Buzz = Fibo Nacci!

Fibonacci + FizzBuzz = Fibo Nacci! Your challenge is to create a Fibo Nacci program! A Fibo Nacci program outputs the first 100 Fibonacci numbers (starting from 1). If the Fibonacci number is divisible by both 2 and 3 (i.e. it is divisible by 6), then output FiboNacci instead of the number....

code-golf sequence fibonacci

Κριτικσι Λίθος

I wonder if New Main Posts and New Sandboxed Posts are friends...

Geobits

Kinda, but Main is better friends with Meta than Sandbox.

quartata

@Sp3000 did you see my latest Chef answer?

0

A: We're no strangers to code golf, you know the rules, and so do I

Chef, 43376 bytes This is too long to fit in an answer, here's the Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/Cqrmwmim Metagolf I did not generate this by hand, instead I wrote a small Python script to do it: import sys def varName(c): if(c=='\n'): return 'z'; elif(c==' '): return 'Z'; elif(...

Sp3000

17:17

I saw you link it, yes

quartata

I think I'm ready for World Big Dosa

Lembik

@MartinBüttner hi.. how do I find the messages you pointed me to?

Sp3000

I feel like a loop or two should help for at least some of the repeated choruses

quartata

@Sp3000 awh dammit I forgot about loops

I actually couldn't get loops working with the Perl interpreter

X until X at the end would always throw an error

Lembik

@MartinBüttner oh I see them.. just for general interest :)

quartata

17:20

I suspect the only place a loop would help would be at the end anyways

Sp3000

I think more than the end, there's a lot of repetition

Κριτικσι Λίθος

@quartata Do you mean the Nether instead?

quartata

I guess that means I'm not ready for World Big Dosa

Back to making sushi rice for another ten years

Geobits

Nobody's ready for world big dosa.

quartata

Do I at least get cool points for the Python script

Rainbolt

17:22

You get cool points for making sushi rice

My sushi rice always comes out wrong. It's either too mushy or too hard.

Or perfect but I make it mushy by drenching it in too much rice vinegar. Or I get just the right amount of vinegar but then I mush it with the spoon

Or I make it perfect and then I mush it when I make the roll

quartata

I cannot believe that you didn't know this.

Dennis

@quartata I don't understand. That program takes no input.

quartata

Wait I'm an idiot

3

Pretend you didn't see that

I thought it was just "print out a function"

Calvin's Hobbies

@quartata You admit your incompetence but hide the particulars...

quartata

@Calvin'sHobbies :(

Sp3000

17:31

Speaking of Chef, I still don't get how this got as popular as it did

Dennis

Me neither. That was straightfoward Chef. Like submitting a picture for Piet.

Geobits

Certain languages get votes whether they're creative/clever or not. People just like fun languages.

Sp3000

T.

Ingredients.
5 A
33 l B

Method.
X the A.
Put B into mixing bowl.
Y A until xed.
Pour contents of mixing bowl into the baking dish.

Serves 1.

@quartata Loops

Yeah, I guess. :/ Just irks me that that one was copy and pasted

New Main Posts

0

Q: When was I born?

Some unknown tribe is using a rather strange system for their birthday. They don't have any concept of number for dates (like year, month or day). When you ask them when they are born, they would reply: on a full moon in spring in the year of the tiger and I enjoyed the fortune already 3 times. U...

code-golf

Calvin's Hobbies

@quartata It's ok. Have a puffer:

Κριτικσι Λίθος

17:40

@Calvin'sHobbies That is very nice! I could not believe it that it was Conway's Game of Life! (thumbs up)

Geobits

New Challenge Idea: Conway's Game of Thrones

Calvin's Hobbies

@Geobits All cells end up dead

Geobits

Sounds about right. They need to reproduce a lot first, too.

Or at least die trying.

quartata

codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/63445/45151 Take 2

Κριτικσι Λίθος

Maybe there should be a popularity-contest for the best Conway's Game of Life simulation.

Calvin's Hobbies

17:46

Too broad

quartata

@Dennis I would like to point out that Rotor can do your ShapeScript to J one in 3 bytes since it doesn't need to have the quote closed

I'm pretty sure there's a language where you don't need the close-quote. — Thomas Kwa 12 hours ago

@Calvin'sHobbies Thanks. Puffer breeders are my favorite

Sp3000

You know something's wrong with muddy's 51 byte Pyth when it's beatable with not-Pyth

quartata

@Sp3000 Link or it didn't happen

Calvin's Hobbies

2

quartata

@Calvin'sHobbies ...

Sp3000

17:51

I would if ISPs would stop making internet so slow at 5am in the morning

quartata

I got rekt

Κριτικσι Λίθος

@quartata I think you mean shrekt

Dennis

@quartata Where do I find this Rotor?

quartata

@Dennis github.com/quartata/rotor-lang

(my language got noticed by dennis yay)

Dennis

Why did you implement it in an esolang? :P

quartata

17:54

So it would just be "&+ I think

@Dennis ?

Groovy isn't an esolang

Groovy (programming language)

Groovy is an object-oriented programming language for the Java platform. It is a dynamic language with features similar to those of Python, Ruby, Perl, and Smalltalk. It can be used as a scripting language for the Java Platform, is dynamically compiled to Java Virtual Machine (JVM) bytecode, and interoperates with other Java code and libraries. Groovy uses a Java-like curly-bracket syntax. Most Java code is also syntactically valid Groovy, although semantics may be different. Groovy 1.0 was released on January 2, 2007, and Groovy 2.0 in July, 2012. Groovy 3.0 is planned for release in late 2015...

Geobits

It's not a goodlang either :P

quartata

@Geobits I thought you liked Java

Geobits

Groovy != Java whether I like Java or not.

Calvin's Hobbies

What language has the longest name?

quartata

@Calvin'sHobbies You are Reading the Name of this Esolang?

Geobits

17:56

YARTNOTE?

TimmyD

Dang, this pristine world is tricky ... PowerShell is so ~~loose~~ implicit that it's actually hard to make a simple program error.

Calvin's Hobbies

I mean of anything

quartata

Oops

esolangs.org/wiki/….

This one is.

Geobits

I don't think that counts as a language ;)

TimmyD

-1, no language specifications

Calvin's Hobbies

17:57

@quartata that has no spec or anything

How do you know its even meant to be the name of a language?

Sp3000

@quartata Definitely something wrong.

quartata

@Calvin'sHobbies lol

@Sp3000 ?

Dennis

D is an infinite loop. I don't think that counts as an error. — Dennis ♦ 8 mins ago

Calvin's Hobbies

@quartata Oh, you just made it up

Dennis

@Calvin'sHobbies It doesn't, right?

quartata

17:59

@Calvin'sHobbies I didn't.

Sp3000

@quartata You said links so I linksed :P

quartata

It was the longest esolangs article I could find.

Calvin's Hobbies

@Dennis No

quartata

@Sp3000 ohh

So this is shorter than the Pyth one? Yikes.

Transcript for