The Bridge

Find me some studies showing video game violence cause damage or costs that make them in the slightest way similar to smoking and I'll accept that as relevant. It is entirely different to tax something that causes significant costs for the public (healthcare) vs something old people don't like

Sterno

I don't smoke. I hate the smell of smoke. But it bothers me that the government can tell you "No, sorry, no one's allowed to smoke in the restaurant you own and operate".

Ben Brocka

There's a major difference between legislating morality for the sake of morality and appealing to certain demographics and actually taxing things that directly or indirectly cost public money

LessPop_MoreFizz

@BenBrocka I'm not saying that applying one to violent video games is a good idea - that's not the argument I was addressing.

fredley

@Sterno It's not yours, it's everybody's

Sterno

@BenBrocka That argument doesn't really work well. If they believe that violent video games really leads to school shootings, then indeed violent video games directly or indirectly cost public money.

@fredley if I own a restaurant, EVERYONE owns it? What?

badp

12:18 PM

@Sterno Why does it? Public health should not be subject to the arbitry of restaurant owners.

fredley

@Sterno No, the law is universal. As is the law against stabbing people in the face.

Sterno

@badp Because the public doesn't have to visit that restaurant.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Sterno It's more of a workplace safety issue than anything else. Why should restaurant workers have to inhale as much secondhand smoke as a two-pack-a-day smoker, just as a hazard of their job?

Ben Brocka

@Sterno There's tons of research linking smoking and second hand smoking to major health problems. There's minor, extremely conflicting research on the effects of violent video games

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Sterno It's not about the public as much as it's about the employees, tbqh. The fact that it's more pleasant for the public is icing.

badp

12:19 PM

@Sterno Your medic programs are the biggest chunk of your federal spending if I'm not mistaken. Doing what you can to reduce that spending by preventing problems to begin with simply makes sense.

Ben Brocka

And all video game violence research generally measure short term effects and measure things like "they wrote a slightly more violent short story", not actual violence

fredley

@Sterno Luckily this argument is null. In a democracy, if most people want a ban like that then that's fine.

kalina

0

A: I think there is a flaw in the rules around time based questions

I want to say welcome to Arqade but you have been here twice as long as I have, so I'll say welcome back. I have a few things I want to address in this post and I'm not confident they're going to be popular with any particular group of people on either side of the current argument. Let's sta...

badp

That's why restaurant owners also don't get to serve you rotten food because who cares, if you don't like it, scoot!

kalina

it's probably a bit of a mess at the moment

let the downvoting begin

Sterno

12:20 PM

@fredley So hopefully most people won't want a violent video game ban.

or tax

fredley

@Sterno Yes. Hopefully they won't.

Luckily it's also your right to share your opinion

Ben Brocka

@Sterno Unfortunately it matters more whether old people that happen to be in the current government want it or not

Sterno

Or powerful lobbies

Ben Brocka

Generational issues are always icky

fredley

Ben Brocka

12:22 PM

And they have little to do with what's right or consitutional

badp

@kalina This is a reasonable argument, but I still think that the asker is just throwing a tantrum and doesn't really care anymore either way

Honestly, at the end of the day, all answers have a rather prominently placed timestamp on them.

kalina

@badp yes but rather than just looking like the community is going "meh, don't care, too localised" I feel it is better to explain to said user that (a) we were probably wrong, it's not too localised and we have multiple things we do when handling other games that allow time limited questions, and (b) it's still not a good question regardless

badp

If your answer is "At the time of this writing, it's Zerg; at the time of your reading, check [here](blah)" at the end of the day I don't even see the need to go back to it every now and again

kalina

yes he's throwing a tantrum, but his tantrum was that his question was closed as too localised

if you take away the too localised, is he still throwing a tantrum? And if so, why?

LessPop_MoreFizz

I vaguely recall this not being this users first such tantrum

badp

12:26 PM

I don't know; he has another question on meta

9

Q: How is "Is there a Day9 for League of Legends?" off topic?

Is there a Day9 for league of legends? I have tried to engage the users who voted to close in comments with no success. I have always been a huge advocate of these sites, however this type of behavior makes me want to delete my account. I don't want to support a community where you can't even...

it went better for him but he also menaced quitting and deleting there

kalina

if we're currently having a "traffic crisis", losing more users by provoking arguments like this over using the wrong closure reason is not a good way to handle it

badp

No matter how much of a traffic crisis we have, it doesn't help to keep people who don't want to be here

I don't even think we have a traffic crisis

Sterno

We're having a traffic crisis?

kalina

I don't want to be here, I still turn up

we've definitely had a reduction in new questions asked

at least it feels like that from my point of view

badp

There's been a little slump but we've had a few of those already and we're recovering too.

fredley

12:29 PM

@badp I see no crisis. Less growth perhaps, but far from 'crisis'

kalina

@badp this is what I expected to see

that's not a slump

that peak was Bioshock Infinite and SimCity

find the Skyrim peak and call the bit immediately after it a slump

badp

Well it's a little more obvious if you switch to Month

fredley

I think SE should buy us more games. That will increase traffic.

3

badp

but anyway

kalina

this site is like movies & tv

they only get traffic after a new movie comes out

badp

12:30 PM

Contributors quitting doesn't change how much traffic we get

kalina

which editor quit?

badp

It's the quality of what we produce that determines that

kalina

I'm still here

I'm the only editor that matters

badp

If you're quitting over your right to produce crap... the door's there

kalina

bye then

badp

12:32 PM

Best of luck

kalina

somebody slammed the door on my face as I walked through it, I'm calling it mod abuse

badp

See, look at the comments on the question itself

kalina

I did, they're referenced in my meta post

fbueckert

@fredley I agree with this.

fredley

@fbueckert I haven't been bought a game for ages!

badp

12:33 PM

I think he's just got stuck with the part where we closed his question because the answer changes all the time

fredley

This is unacceptable!

kalina

@badp if it hadn't been closed as too localised, we would have avoided this issue

Grumpy Lazers

0

Q: Do floaters reappear later in the game?

I have made a bad mistake and I think Im stuck. I did not notice that i need floater corpses for the interceptor upgrades. I sold all corpses on grey market and then only heavy floaters starter appearing. Funny thing is that the game requires floater corpses and not heavy floater corpses (i mea...

xcom-enemy-unknown

kalina

the first comment on the question got it right

badp

@kalina I don't know why we closed the question; I don't know Starcraft 2; what I do know is that people like @OrigamiRobot and @LessPop_MoreFizz think before they VTC

kalina

12:34 PM

-1: not constructive, and subject to change over time. — DragonLord 11 hours ago

badp

@kalina "-1" is not "VTC" /pedantic

kalina

"not constructive"

+point out the obvious

that's even if it should have been closed

there is no way that we allow features in weekly builds of minecraft to spawn questions and call them valid

but classify something like that from SC2 as closable

badp

(Nightlies of Minecraft aren't published; weeklies are.)

Sterno

Someone help me figure out what that last cough cough is supposed to be

-3

A: Who or what was Songbird?

When I was at the point where she says goodbye to the Songbird for the last time (I don't want to spoil it but if I say "Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink" you'll know what bit I'm on about) I was actually starting to think the game was leading to Booker being the Songbird, just bec...

kalina

@badp Now you're being pedantic

Sterno

12:35 PM

Not that the answer is worth a crap anyway

OrigamiRobot

@kalina I will be the first to stand by you in the "the close reason of least resistance is the best one" argument.

badp

@kalina Hence the parentheses.

kalina

@OrigamiRobot I'm not even sure it should have been closed... yet

for the minecraft reason

but if it had to be closed, NC would be the reason I went with

tombull89

2 hours ago, by tombull89

This answer gave me eye cancer it was so bad.

kalina

and only because there isn't a low quality close reason

Sterno

12:37 PM

Of course after editing all that, I see that it's basically not an answer. It's basically "I thought the songbird would be X, but it wasn't X. But wouldn't it have been cool if it was X?"

Sconibulus

I think the difference is that the weekly builds of minecraft, while subject to change, have a decent chance of remaining for the next full build

badp

but see, it's not even right to liken Minecraft publishing a nightly and SC2 metagame changing

FEichinger

We need a policy on how to mark time-sensitive questions and answers in a noticable manner.

badp

One thing's a hard trigger

Sterno

@tombull89 That's why I edited it. Hoping to prevent eye cancer outbreaks

Sconibulus

12:37 PM

it's the difference between a patch, and a snapshot

badp

The other's just something that happens all the time

kalina

@Sconibulus pretty much

that difference doesn't even need to be quantified to be honest

FEichinger

That said, NC would've been appropriate on the starcraft question.

kalina

its something that can change weekly vs something that can change weekly

if one of them is too localised, the other is

we've already established that one of them isn't too localised

so the other is currently a double standard based on games that people play

badp

It's not the same to me

OrigamiRobot

12:38 PM

@kalina The difference is that questions like this require constant attention to keep up to date. When minecraft gets updated, there is a new version and patch notes. There is no analogous system for game metas.

Sconibulus

I think it's more "can change weekly" vs. "constantly changing"

FEichinger

@OrigamiRobot That's why it's not constructive, though.

badp

14 mins ago, by badp

If your answer is "At the time of this writing, it's Zerg; at the time of your reading, check [here](blah)" at the end of the day I don't even see the need to go back to it every now and again

kalina

@badp which makes it not too localised

OrigamiRobot

@FEichinger I'm not arguing that it's not Not Constructive.

badp

12:39 PM

I think the "changes all the time" part of the problem is actually distracting

OrigamiRobot

Close reasons aren't mutually exclusive.

kalina

@OrigamiRobot not not Not not not

FEichinger

@OrigamiRobot Yes, but it's not "too localised" because of your argument.

OrigamiRobot

@FEichinger In my interpretation, it is.

badp

@kalina Did I close the question? No. Do I play the game? No. I don't know exactly what was the thought process.

FEichinger

12:40 PM

@OrigamiRobot Your argument says "it's not tangible" - that makes it NC, not TL.

badp

I don't need to guess when the closers are here.

kalina

@badp I'm not picking a fight with you

in fact, I corrected the guy for blaming the mod team

you're not responsible

Sterno

@fredley Agreed. Arqade bought me $850 worth of stuff last year. This year, $0. They need to get cracking!

OrigamiRobot

@FEichinger "Requires constant upkeep" is the reason I voted TL. That is not a reason for NC.

kalina

but you did post the answer on the minecraft question, so I did expect you to agree with me or at least understand what I'm trying to say

fredley

12:41 PM

@Sterno Yeah. Boo Hiss SE.

badp

@Sterno All I ever got was 3 shirts 1 pen and a set of stickers :(

FEichinger

@OrigamiRobot But, as @kalina reasonably argues, we have precedent for supporting volatile questions.

kalina

we have multiple precedents

Sterno

@badp You needed to play Mass Effect 3

Or be good at faking it

badp

@Sterno and all the other games that were subject to contests too

OrigamiRobot

12:42 PM

@FEichinger And I have explained the difference between a game update and a shifting meta.

kalina

@Sterno think Raven got a $300 graphics card this year, didn't he?

badp

I've never actually taken part in one.

FEichinger

@OrigamiRobot Yes, the difference being that the latter isn't tangible.

Martin Sojka

@OrigamiRobot I missed some internet drama? Damn you, company meetings!

badp

I kind of wanted to be in the Diablo 3 one but I didn't win the raffle and I wasn't going to plunge $60 in it

Sterno

12:42 PM

@kalina Probably.

FEichinger

Which does not make it TL. It's just NC.

kalina

-8

Q: Which race has the highest win rates in professional tornaments

I have read statements from blizzard talking about how they monitor the w/l ratio of every race matchup in starcraft at all levels. I don't think they have these stats for professional gaming tournaments. Does anyone know which race has the highest w/l ratio in professional gaming as of HOTS ?

starcraft-2

-2

Q: I think there is a flaw in the rules around time based questions

Most competitive games are updated and change over time. I play starcraft and I almost never ask questions here, because the rules make for a toxic environment. My questions get downvoted because I don't care about strategies from 6 months ago. I want information based around the current state of...

discussion allowed-questions

@MartinSojka have fun reading

badp

Okay, now riddle me this. How's an objective question not constructive?

OrigamiRobot

@FEichinger No, it doesn't. I'm not talking about NC at all. NC basically means "subjective". If you'd like, I can direct you to my numerous complaints about close reasons being misleadingly named.

kalina

@badp in order to be NC, the question simply needs to be not a good fit for our site format

Sterno

12:44 PM

I'm pretty sure the way it works around here is you throw a dart at the list of close reasons for a question you don't like, and then justify why the one you hit applies.

kalina

A question that results in a link is not a good fit for our site

Martin Sojka

Oh, Decency participated? Sounds like fun.

kalina

@MartinSojka he didn't really participate

he just turned up, posted the answer, and vanished again

there would be way more drama than this if he has got involved

Sterno

@kalina I'm not sure that's been clearly established.

Otherwise I want to close all those questions that basically point at howlongtobeat.com

kalina

ok, fair enough

maybe I dreamed that bit

badp

12:46 PM

> We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or specific expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion.

kalina

I've always avoided posting links as answers

Sterno

3

Q: What should we do with answers containing only a link to relevant information?

Stack exchange frowns on answers containing only a link, even if it's to relevant information, because: It requires extra effort from the reader It is vulnerable to link rot The stated goal of Stack Exchange is to host content, not just link to it A common approach to these answers is to leav...

discussion allowed-answers

kalina

maybe I should rename to archangel

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp I resent the implication that my VTC was poorly considered or not thought through.

kalina

@LessPop_MoreFizz I have not said those words

badp

12:47 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz Feel free to ignore the other twenty times when I said you certainly had good reason to VTC as you did, I just didn't (and don't) know what it was.

kalina

I merely said I disagree

Sterno

Community consensus is pretty much it's okay as long as you put some context with it. In this case, that context might just be "This changes over a time as the game changes blah blah blah but if you look here it tracks the play statistics so you can see at any given point which race is ahead blah blah blah now my link has context and I'm cool"

fredley

@kalina Any particular reason for this change?

kalina

@LessPop_MoreFizz If disagreeing means we can no longer be friends, you really really shouldn't read what I put in the daft punk room yesterday

badp

@Sterno or even just "this is a link but it tracks only this much data blah blah blah"

LessPop_MoreFizz

12:49 PM

I voted to close the question as NC as I recall, because I think such questions are essentially a weathervane of a very changeable and fluid metagame.

kalina

@fredley high ranking angel of arqade

LessPop_MoreFizz

@kalina no, I'm addressing the specific charge by @badp that I don't think before I close vote.

fredley

@kalina Arqade has angels?

badp

and I'm addressing the part where I explicitly said the opposite

kalina

@fredley fae and I

badp

12:50 PM

also, I wasn't there, all I've got is this comment

I voted to close as not constructive, for what it's worth. The first 4 were for "too localized". I agree with this post. — StrixVaria 28 mins ago

fredley

@kalina FAE is just a set of eyes

kalina

@LessPop_MoreFizz I'm not sure he definitively said that, I think most of those words were in the sentence but that there were a few more that means it didn't mean what you're interpreting it as

LessPop_MoreFizz

16 mins ago, by badp

@kalina I don't know why we closed the question; I don't know Starcraft 2; what I do know is that people like @OrigamiRobot and @LessPop_MoreFizz think before they VTC

kalina

@LessPop_MoreFizz yep, that doesn't say you don't think before you act

LessPop_MoreFizz

I definitely read do as don't.

derp.

2

kalina

12:51 PM

in fact it very much says that because you voted, you must have had your reasons and he's not aware of those reasons

down boy

BOSS

badp

you're welcome.

Martin Sojka

@kalina For the record. I strongly suspect you might turn into Archangel Gabriel as portrayed by Christopher Walken given the slightest chance.

fredley

@kalina go for something higher than archangel? Seraphim?

A Seraphim is basically an angel that's on fire

Sconibulus

pretty sure they were one of the lesser angels

just a bit above cherubim

(who were badass)

LessPop_MoreFizz

Anyways, the reason i voted as I did is because the SCII metagame is heavily changable and subject to a variety of fads or balance changes. Asking for specific win-rates is specifically asking for a snapshot-in-time of something that is 1)heavily changable, and 2) more importantly, has no real meaning outside of a more concrete context. The question just isn't useful in any way that we are able to meaningfully address it, IMO.

badp

12:53 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz What do you think of the link Decency posted; would it be okay as an answer?

fredley

@Sconibulus Nope, Seraphim is highest order

Christian angelic hierarchy

:For other angelic hierarchies, see Hierarchy of angels. The most influential Christian angelic hierarchy was that put forward by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite in the 4th or 5th century in his book De Coelesti Hierarchia (On the Celestial Hierarchy). During the Middle Ages, many schemes were proposed, some drawing on and expanding on Pseudo-Dionysius, others suggesting completely different classifications. According to medieval Christian theologians, the angels are organized into several orders, or "Angelic Choirs". Pseudo-Dionysius (On the Celestial Hierarchy) and Thomas Aquinas (Su...

badp

I suppose you could adorn it with warnings about the dataset it's using and what portion of "competitive gaming" is being tracked and "this is the top players not the top factions" and whatnot

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp I think that it is not a link that's likely to go anywhere, but I also think that as a link goes, it's not particularly meaningful without a lot more context than is being provided. And more to the point, I don't whose only purpose is to solicit a link that shows up in the top 5 of any reasonably formulated google search is a particularly great reason to try to save what is, at the end of the day, a crappy question that ought to be downvoted at a bare minimum.

Sconibulus

Ooops, got the spheres inverted in authority

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz Okay.

LessPop_MoreFizz

12:56 PM

starcrafttrends.com

Is also useful and has pretty charts.

fredley

@Sconibulus Yeah. Angels are the lowest tier.

kalina

@LessPop_MoreFizz so can weekly builds of minecraft, and we specifically allow those

badp

@kalina You can't compare fads and changelogs.

StrixVaria

@SaintWacko I tried out a venom mage this morning just to mix things up a bit. I learned wights are immune to poison. Since nothing is immune to being smashed in the face with a mace, I'm going to switch back next game :P

kalina

@badp fine, Diablo 3 character builds

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