The Nineteenth Byte

Redwolf Programs

00:05

I forgot: If a bounty ends and I don't pick an answer to award the rep to, does it get auto-awarded to someone?

caird coinheringaahing

Yes, but only half of the rep

Redwolf Programs

Is there a way to prevent that?

I might just have to post an answer with a sock, give it the bounty manually, then delete the sock answer

caird coinheringaahing

> Automatic awarding only ever applies to answers posted after you started the bounty.

Redwolf Programs

Oh, ok. Never mind then.

I seriously hope they're working on fixing the image exploit

Bubbler

That's... a weird kind of abuse

caird coinheringaahing

00:07

> Otherwise, either all or half of the bounty will be awarded to the highest-scored answer among those which meet all of the following:

They were posted after the bounty was started, and
They have a score of at least 2 (at the time the automatic awarding takes place), and
They were not written by the bounty starter.

> If the chosen answer was accepted by the question owner, it will receive the full bounty. Otherwise, it will receive half the bounty. If two eligible answers have the same score, the older answer is chosen.

If no answer meets any of the above two criteria, the bounty is not awarded to any answer, and is not refunded to the bounty starter.

Source

Bubbler

00:27

0

A: Nominations for Language of the Month, 2021 edition

K K is a member of APL-family languages, originally created by Arthur Whitney. Arthur's K has many versions; the latest version as of June 2021 is Shakti (also commonly called K9), which is still under development. While official K versions were made for commercial purposes, multiple open-source ...

caird coinheringaahing

I dislike the integer tag (same with number and math), but I'm 3 upvotes away from the bronze tag badge, so now I like it :/ :P

Bubbler

Badges ruin the people :P

caird coinheringaahing

But... shiny :P

rak1507

@Bubbler would also recommend kcc

github.com/kparc/kcc

smarnav

@hyper-neutrino hi

caird coinheringaahing

00:35

Huh, Mego's deletion removed his nomination, making the election look weird

> 1st Choice DJMcMayhem
3rd Choice PhiNotPi

totallyhuman

are you not aware of famous CG moderator, USER REMOVED?

caird coinheringaahing

> 3 Candidates
*shows two nominations*

@totallyhuman Weird, they also got elected twice at once over on SFF

totallyhuman

what an incredible member of the SE community

caird coinheringaahing

Oooh, I only need 40000 more reputation and it'll be 77777 :P

rak1507

00:50

that's like 2 jelly fgitws + a few questions

easy

smarnav

how is that easy...

Wezl

@user okay here's a nib solution, without a "positions" builtin that I might add: extend == where first. Not sure if I'll keep extend as a name, more reason to finally sit down and write an interpreter

caird coinheringaahing

@smarnav rak was joking, 77k rep takes a lot of effort :P

Only been done by 9 users here, but 3 of those 9 have done it twice :P

Bubbler

None of the current mods have 77k rep

And I realized I just went over Jo King :P

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Write a netquine, Combinatorial Pipes, Finite Composition of Univariate Functions [math] [code-golf]

caird coinheringaahing

01:00

I think that all 4 mods together have slightly more reputation than Dennis

~210k vs 202k

smarnav

how did he get so much

by being the first?

caird coinheringaahing

He posted so many good answers over about 5 years consistently

Bubbler

by being one of the smartest for a long period of time

smarnav

makes sense

caird coinheringaahing

There's an old meme around here that you don't outgolf (or outtime, or beat in general) Dennis, he's just that good

smarnav

01:03

I am quite new. only discovered this place a few weeks ago while looking at a totally unrelated se question

Bubbler

It's a typical way to step into CGCC :P

caird coinheringaahing

The fact that Jelly (the main language he created) is still incredibly competitive without any new modifications after 3 years is testament to how good he was at golfing. 05AB1E, Jelly's main competitor, has been under dev almost constantly and is still about equal to Jelly

I would argue that there are very few languages that can so consistently go toe-to-toe than Jelly and 05AB1E

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Title: Make a WebCrawler dictionary writer. Notice: for any text within <> tags, please ignore any .'s. These are simply added so that they are treated as plain text, and not code. Your goal is to make a program that acts as a regular WebCrawler, but also writes a dictionary using the websites. Y...

smarnav

also, jelly answers get posted almost immediately.

what do you think about this prospective question that I am working on: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23519/104373

caird coinheringaahing

@smarnav That doesn't make them good :P

@smarnav The one thing that all "Interpret this language" questions must have is a specification of how the language works, and exactly what commands must be supported and what those commands do

It looks like an interesting challenge - we don't often get interpreter challenges about non-esoteric languages - but it's sorely lacking in detail

Bubbler

01:08

^^ This is why interpreter challenges are so hard to write, unless the language is extremely minimal

and also why there are so few of them

smarnav

I would agree with that.

I think that the question could do with a lot of improvement, and I will try to improve it.

anyways, I have to leave, bye.

Redwolf Programs

Redwolf invent card game. Redwolf change to not have random. Redwolf sandbox.

Will KotH.

Wezl

@Wezl explanation

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms alright then

you've convinced me

> Redwolf card game here. Redwolf made card game. Redwolf not sure KotH want card game. Redwolf want card game. Redwolf need card game. Redwolf want card game here.

Redwolf Programs

Wait 2021 is already halfway over

Here I am thinking the year started a few weeks ago

lyxal

01:20

@RedwolfPrograms That’s what you get for living in a cold, snowy area in the US.

(is texas actually snowy though?)

Redwolf Programs

Not at all lol

It's extrememly uncommon

Maybe every few years we get a quarter inch or some sleet or something

lyxal

dang

Redwolf Programs

January was the snowiest weather ever documented here

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms apparently "THIS MONKEY" is your favourite read from January

> I’m a little behind on my reading. Hopefully, the rest of the year won’t fly by as quickly.

Here are my favorite reads from January.

THIS MONKEY

Redwolf Programs

GPT?

lyxal

01:22

correct ;p

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms You know how 2020 lasted a decade? I think 2021 is trying to speed run and fit within a month

Redwolf Programs

I'm so incredibly careful when deleting anything on my laptop now lol

caird coinheringaahing

I'm still not entirely convinced this isn't just some elaborate dream and it's actually Feb 2020 and I'll wake up when New Zealand declares war on Finland

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms I don't think I've ever had to run a virus scan on my laptop, but I've been doing it for my desktop since I got it a couple years ago. My first one I bought from Best Buy and it came with a Norton anti-virus program on it.

Redwolf Programs

I just made three .zip/.tar.gzs of a folder, moved it to trash, and made a .tar.gz of the backups

I've deleted a fairly impressive amount of stuff unintentionally

And an even more impressive amount due to my SSD failing, but luckily I don't really remember what was on it lol

Wezl

01:29

having rm without confirmation usually doesn't bite me but it deleted a bash script I was using today because I misused alt-shift-underscore

Redwolf Programs

I've switched to trash-cli with aliases and I'm never going back

trr to trash something, trl to list what's in trash, trx to delete something in trash, and trxx to delete everything in trash

caird coinheringaahing

I think being overzealous with deleting things has to be an overlooked coder stereotype. Like, most people struggle to empty their trashcan, or actually delete a file, but coders insist on struggling to not nuke the living shit out of random files

"Oh look, it's a word document with homework from 10 years ago that I never bothered to hand in, Better rm that just to be safe"

Redwolf Programs

To save time you should add -f, and probably sudo it because why not

I've rm -red three weeks worth of work before. Worst part is, I did that while trying to make a backup.

I then downloaded some software to try to recover it, and overwrote the whole partition by mistake

caird coinheringaahing

*gestures at those messages to demonstrate my point*

Wasif

01:55

Hi everyone

Can I return a list as the return value of function when there is only one value, i.e. if I can return [-183] instead of -183

Bubbler

On Code Golf?

Wasif

@Bubbler yeah

Obviously

Binomial transform challenge

Bubbler

Yes by this (also related: this)

But the I/O is lists by default for binomial transform, so it is natural to return [x] even if there's only one number

and the input for one number would be also given as [x]

Wasif

02:17

Ok

New Posts

02:49

0

Q: Online tool to determine number of bytes for Unicode characters?

I understand that Unicode characters are 1-4 bytes in size (https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/db2-for-zos/11?topic=unicode-utfs). Given this, is there an online tool that will tell me the number of bytes in a unicode character? Or, if not, how do I determine this? I'm currently trying to determine the...

discussion

Redwolf Programs

03:09

@RedwolfPrograms Well, that was easy enough! Perhaps that should be in the Intro section for new members. — theorist 13 mins ago

@cairdcoinheringaahing Is TIO mentioned in the welcome post?

Wasif

@RedwolfPrograms what is welcome post?

Redwolf Programs

@Wasif This

hyper-neutrino

does the unofficial-official welcome thread mention anything non-SE?

though TIO and CGCC.SE are closely tied enough that it wouldn't not make sense to include it somewhere

Wasif

I see is it our custom tour page?

hyper-neutrino

it's sort of what we wish the tour page could contain some of :p

Wasif

03:16

What happened to the original one

hyper-neutrino

it's like the more in-depth page for someone wanting to seriously get into CGCC

the tour page is just a summary to guide a user as to whether or not they want to join the site and roughly what we're about

to actually participate, the welcome thread is recommended as a medium-length read for understanding the core of what we do and how to ask, answer, etc. well for optimal experience

Redwolf Programs

Onions on this?

What's the term for things you can't see in the input/output?

hyper-neutrino

are you thinking unobservable? or a different term

Redwolf Programs

Yeah that one

hyper-neutrino

though i do think the requirement here is kinda unobservable - gonna leave it to consensus, not gonna touch it myself

Bubbler

03:20

@RedwolfPrograms I don't have any onions right now

hyper-neutrino

using TIO for byte counting is a bit hacky tho. @Razetime you were the one collecting a list of all esolangs/golflangs right?

Redwolf Programs

The ban against stack overflows from recursion is kinda stupid >:|

hyper-neutrino

i'd back a community project to make a third-party site that lets you browse a language, its codepage, some basic info about it (like paradigm, purpose, strengths and weaknesses) and add a bytecounter to it based on that codepage

Redwolf Programs

There are answers from Arnauld, Doorknob, etc. that are invalid because of that rule

hyper-neutrino

would be significantly easier than an execution environment, and due to no ACE we could allow anyone to add their language to it

this might be more complicated than it's worth and might have nobody care about it tho lol

Redwolf Programs

03:23

I'd back that too, that sounds cool

smarnav

hmm... what would a function that looks like this in python do? pastebin.com/raw/TkH9fuRe

hyper-neutrino

@smarnav stack overflow

smarnav

I will try running it in python...

hyper-neutrino

x calls (x which calls (x which calls (x which calls x...) and then factorial) and then factorial) and then factorial

python first of all does not do TCO

but even if it could, since x() isn't the last call, it cannot be tail-called

unless you do some weird thing with a trampoline / whatever structure it is where you tail-call and pass the subsequent evaluation step to the subfunction, but then you run out of memory because of the call factorial when done calls accumulating

smarnav

just wondering...

Wasif

03:29

@smarnav properly it should be like f=lambda x:x<1or x*f(x-1)

bobble

@cairdcoinheringaahing I await the feed's first post :) don't mind me giggling over here at having enacted Change In The World

Razetime

@hyper-neutrino yes, golflangs: github.com/razetime/code-golf/blob/master/golflang-list.md

hyper-neutrino

nice

fun fact: there is an exploit that allows you to gain rep only bounded by the number of answers on the site

however, it requires you to be a moderator, have 1 reputation, commit fraudulent voting, and commit privilege abuse

bobble

does it involve downvoting and deletion/undeletion?

hyper-neutrino

almost

when you downvote an answer, you lose 1 rep - however, if you have only 1 rep, the system can't take it away. undoing that downvote gives you 1 rep. this normally doesn't matter because you need 125 rep to downvote, but mods can do it regardless

so you begin by going down to 1 rep

then you downvote every answer on the site

bobble

03:41

like the pets mod

hyper-neutrino

then you undownvote every answer on the site (and you need to edit every post to do this, hence privilege abuse)

and now you have 1 + (number of answers) rep \o/

also fun fact: if you did this on CGCC, dennis would still have more rep than you

@bobble yeah. well i'm sure they are not doing it to do some silly privilege abuse :p i don't think i ever asked them why but i am sure they have a good reason for it

probably just giving back to the community - as a mod, rep does not matter, so you can give it all back to the community in bounties, just that that's exceedingly not a common thing at all

bobble

in The Reading Room, Jun 7 at 15:09, by lila

@Mithical I gave my reputation away to the good answers on my site in order to stir up activity and encourage more participation, yes

hyper-neutrino

ah. yes, approx. what i thought.

Razetime

hyper did you have a golflang to add to the list?

hyper-neutrino

as much as i say rep should not be a primary incentive and rep doesn't really matter to diamond mods, i am not particularly comfortable with the idea of parting with the internet number that validates the time i waste on SE :P

@Razetime no, i was just wondering if you were the one with the list and where to find it, in case i do want to look into starting a golflang category site or smth similar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

just a weird random idea

Razetime

03:45

oh cool cool

that's a decent idea

maybe I'll gh-pages the golflang list

hyper-neutrino

that could be cool

yeah the category site doesn't need a server actually, based on the idea i had. so it could go into a gh pages and then people could contribute really trivially like that. will think about it; i tend to have a lot of weird ideas pop into my head but not the motivation to do it :p

bobble

more barriers to your proposed abuse: even if mods aren't rate-limited with their deletions, people might... notice... what was happening and complain

hyper-neutrino

well yeah it is purely a hypothetical :p

(also no deletions are involved - just downvote and later undownvote, but you'll need to edit to unlock the vote)

(which of course will still be noticed right away)

(and also the vote abuse script would probably get in your way and cancel some downvotes and ruin the plan)

bobble

oh yeah sorry

hyper-neutrino

(so yeah anyway it's a great way to lose your diamond and also ~~probably~~ definitely get suspended!)

bobble

03:52

(and you would have to be de-modded first since mods can unsuspend themselves!)

hyper-neutrino

oh yeah i haven't tried suspending myself yet

fun fact: if a mod disables their diamond in chat and gets suspended and then re-mods themselves, they cannot be unsuspended anymore; the button apparently just does not exist

source: a mod asked shog to suspend them from chat once for science :P

hyper-neutrino

04:20

sometime tomorrow morning/noon-ish for me (so about 12h from now, 24h from the pinned announcement) i'll submit the first-time asker popup for review - if you haven't taken a look and provided any feedback / concerns / improvements you might have, now's your chance - codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/23485/…

Bubbler

04:40

TIB/Rust story: After two weeks of head bashing and going through lots of github repos, crate docs, and blog posts, I'm finally convinced that the only solution for threading in TIB is to go against common best practices and throw static mut into my code

Razetime

@Bubbler whats TIB

a rust lib?

Bubbler

TryInBrowser

Redwolf Programs

I froze my dog. Now I have a static mut.

lyxal

Wow y'all having fun conversations while I gotta do Java exam. ;p

hyper-neutrino

i am sorry for your loss

how cursed was it :p

lyxal

04:51

still going

Redwolf Programs

Good luck on it :p

hyper-neutrino

F

Razetime

@lyxal Excuse me I also have a Design and Analysis of Algorithms exam very soon

lyxal

@Razetime exam gang lets go

hyper-neutrino

tf u doin in tnb then

Razetime

04:52

daily ping gang is ebicker

Redwolf Programs

Imagine having exams, made by in the middle of summer gang

lyxal

multitasking like a real gamer

@hyper-neutrino ^

Razetime

@hyper-neutrino ya finish the exam in 30 minutes and you have to wait for an hour due to exam reasons

hyper-neutrino

lol true

lyxal

Nah I'm still going

taking a mini-tnb-break

because why not

and because it's an online exam you can do anywhere

Redwolf Programs

04:53

So...they let you go to arbitrary programming related sites during exams?

lyxal

yep

open book

well, open web

Redwolf Programs

Oh ok

hyper-neutrino

interesting

Razetime

idk what lyxal's school is doing lol

lyxal

*university

Razetime

04:54

We have this really annoying proctoring system

lyxal

"This is an OPEN book examination...there are no restrictions placed on resources available to you"

hyper-neutrino

well i'll be happy to provide you with more java that is so cursed it will get you instantly expelled

lyxal

(quote from exam)

@Razetime covid

Redwolf Programs

Unfortunately I won't know cursed Java until I take Computer Science A next year :(

hyper-neutrino

@Razetime i.e. malware and privacy violations? :p

@RedwolfPrograms i'd be happy to introduce it to you sooner

Razetime

04:55

@hyper-neutrino it only works on chrome, locks the browser to full screen

also it has this AI for detecting eye movement?

Unrelated String

they barely even cover non cursed java

hyper-neutrino

chromebooks only? or just all google chrome

lyxal

btw it's surprisingly not cursed

Razetime

any google chrome

hyper-neutrino

@UnrelatedString well that's because that doesn't really exist

Maanas B

04:55

i am trying to create my own esolang but i am bad at naming things. help
well i named it s1pL3

Unrelated String

i think they drop something from the curriculum every four years

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino the exam is actually relatively normal

Razetime

if you open tabs or windows you immediately forfeit

@MaanasB sure maanas, what does it do

do you have an implementation

hyper-neutrino

oh, so it doesn't prevent leaving it just makes you instantly die if you try cheating

Unrelated String

well that's a name tihebn

thevb

then

Maanas B

04:56

not really just got the io

Razetime

@hyper-neutrino yeah fun stuff

Redwolf Programs

I think I've designed the perfect web stack. PHP + SQL. Cursed Java applet on the front end, running an interpreter for that scratch fake lyxal had to use. Coffeescript with server side rendering.

Maanas B

will put on github i a couple of minutes

hyper-neutrino

sounds like a great way to accidentally commit die while someone could probably just cheat on a phone or smth

my uni just assumes people are honest lol, i think it works pretty well overall tbh

one of my math classes last term just said "ok you can consult anyone or anything you want lmao, as long as you demonstrate you understand and promise you wrote the solution yourself"

and then just made the problems really hard xd

Redwolf Programs

Hopefully mine'll be like that when I go in checks broken watch three years

lyxal

04:59

the most cursed part of my exam is the music I'm listening to: youtube.com/watch?v=o4F3J5zFM8M

Redwolf Programs

If there's anything we can count on it's your music taste being cursed

lyxal

okay nvm yep there's a cursed question.

to summarise: write a class. it has an instance variable X (array of class Y). Now write a function called X which returns whether there are assigned elements in X

Redwolf Programs

...

Maanas B

just made the esolang open source - github.com/PyGamer0/s1mpL3

Redwolf Programs

I thought Java was supposed to be readable and all that

lyxal

05:01

nope

nevermind

read the question wrong

stupid page wrapping

hyper-neutrino

oh you missed an m from your initial message

i was wondering what s1pL3 was supposed to mean

Maanas B

not s1ple s1mpL3

means simple

lyxal

ighto exam done

hyper-neutrino

poggers

on a scale of yes to very yes how bad was it

Maanas B

for some reason my commit messages are thrice as long as they used to be

lyxal

05:15

@hyper-neutrino surprisingly no

hyper-neutrino

:o

nice

lyxal

I had to manually vectorise addition between two vectors though

Made me miss golfing languages.

hyper-neutrino

lol

AviFS

I just did a huge, and probably overkill, edit/re-writing on A Cat's Game to Claim

Do you guys mind taking a look and letting me know what you think?

Redwolf Programs

Just glanced over it, but it does look a lot clearer now.

The H1 at the top is a little redundant though

AviFS

05:19

Do you mean clearer, or just longer, haha

@RedwolfPrograms Woah, good point thanks! Taking that out now

That was actually always there, and on purpose too

Somehow I thought other people did that, but it looks like just in the Sandbox. Prob got that confused

Is putting ##Intro or ##Background also redundant? I feel like I've seen that before

hyper-neutrino

those headers make sense

Redwolf Programs

That's fine I think, since it lets people know it's not the actual description of the task if they're just skimming the challenge

hyper-neutrino

yeah. some people aren't a fan of flavortext and as long as it isn't excessive, marking with headers lets people skip over it if they want

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 1 min ago, by Meta Andrew T.

Bubbler

wat

is it even possible (barring the DOM hack)

hyper-neutrino

yep

so basically the way this works is

you can undelete an answer to a deleted question and it doesn't undelete the question it just makes the answer undeleted (idk if normal users can do this; it may just be a mod thing)

but this doesn't make sense, and there have been issues in the past where a question getting deleted didn't properly deal with answers

so there's an hourly script that forces answers to deleted questions to also be gone

and then whoever undeleted it now has an undeletion vote on the answer, and apparently undeleting it again doesn't clear the vote, and the script will delete it again and add another undeletion vote

Bubbler

05:36

So there's an hourly script to handle something but it still doesn't really fix the things

I'd say it's way too cursed, but I guess it's typical for... SE?

AviFS

@hyper-neutrino & @RedwolfPrograms Thanks guys!!

Razetime

@Wasif I think with the -s flag you can take input to scale the circle image

so you do ditaa -s and submit

also I am half sure that you can make the bounding box smaller

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