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2:01 PM
@user ok will try
 
For legal reasons that's a joke :P
 
@hyper-neutrino Drafting one now :P
 
@user i know lol
 
Teresa Dietrich on June 16, 2021
We have had an exciting couple of months here at Stack Overflow. That excitement doesn’t change our plans for the future, detailed in this post.
> I have read a number of concerns and predictions, both around the acquisition and beyond, which I wanted to specifically address:

[...] We also have no intention of limiting the number of copy and pastes for users from our public platform sites.
Please don't tell me people actually thought the April Fool's joke was real?
 
... I hope not but I wouldn't be surprised :/
 
2:04 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing there are definitely people who would have believed it
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing *hides archive of SO made in case copy-pasting is limited* Of course not, who would be that crazy?
 
> just recently welcomed a former team member back from within the company.
@Catija I think I may have missed something, who is Teresa referring to here?
 
hairboat
 
Oh nice, I completely missed that!
 
apparently you have to change the parent site for it to sync up with the latest updates on the account
 
2:09 PM
or you can ask me to reload your profile
 
my web browser is stuck in Desktop Site (i am on android)
 
there should be a button in the main browser menu to disable it / a checkbox you can uncheck
 
@hyper-neutrino if i uncheck it it works ok but if i open a new tab it is still stuck in Desktop Site
 
hm. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i'd say "probably browser settings" but that's prob not helpful lol
 
@hyper-neutrino well there is no setting like Enable Desktop Site for all sites
 
2:20 PM
maybe your phone secretly wants to be a desktop
 
also what is the use of 1×1 matrices
 
very little
 
@PyGamer0 To confuse people who use APL
 
@pxeger *sad scalar noises*
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing so thats just a scalar
 
2:44 PM
posted on June 16, 2021 by caird coinheringaahing

Abundant numbers are numbers which are less than their proper divisor sum. For...

 
oooh shiny
but why did it onebox? RSS magic?
 
@CodidactPosts 0/10, not enough pixels ;-)
 
@pxeger Probably, given that it isn't really oneboxing, it just shows the title and some info about it, rather than any special formatting
 
Another code golf site
 
2:51 PM
does jelly have a cmp?
 
@PyGamer0 Basically, certain events happened in late 2019 (a, b and more) that made some users decide they'd rather not use Stack Exchange. Some of those users decided to created Codidact in an effort to create a better network of Q&A sites
Code Golf is one of those sites. Quite a lot of users here spend some time there, some users have fully moved, some don't use it
@hyper-neutrino Not directly, but it has a 2 byte way of implementing it
 
ah. was just wondering, otherwise it seems _ sign is how you'd do it
struggling to get 6 bytes though - that's what i have just to get the category for each
 
3:06 PM
@hyper-neutrino I normally upvote any (working) answer to my challenges, but I think I'll wait until you get 6 bytes - it's very similar to your existing answer :P
 
wait there's a built-in for that?
i thought i'd have to do proper divisors -> sum lmao
@cairdcoinheringaahing done :P
just had to not be bad at ctrl-f'ing
 
@hyper-neutrino Very nice :P Now you might have to wait for me to get back to my computer to vote, as I can't remember my Codidact login to vote from my phone :P
 
n i c e
 
3:31 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Recursive Co.Jump trajectory code-golf ascii-art string This is an ascii-art challenge where you will draw ascii-art showing a person "jumping" off the top of a building. The building Input given will be a group of rectangular buildings. You may assume buildings are not "stacked on top of each other", hence...

 
3:48 PM
this threw me off so hard
 
TIL "phlogisticated" is (or was) a word
 
I generally don't have much issue with double-posting on CGCC and CGCD, but that one felt 100% like a rep-grab to me. Like, CGCC has 800+ answers to the HW challenge, it is basically the canonical HW collection. Codidact could very well grow to rival SE, but I doubt that Codidact's HW would offer anything more than the CGCC one
 
@totallyhuman oh hi there totallyhuman
didn't know you were back
 
Just asking, is Vyxal pronounced "Vicks-all" or "Vikesal"? Nothing disgusting here.
 
@Razetime hello
 
4:03 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing note though that that was the first CGCD challenge (and for whatever reason is still a hot post), is the only post by that person, and offers a place for new answers for people who don't want to contribute to SE
 
Vicks-all, like lyxal is licks-all
 
@totallyhuman is Neon going to be updated?
 
And what does Vyxal mean?
A special kind of big cat?
 
funny that you should ask because that is what reminded me to revisit
uh... maybe?
 
4:04 PM
@RecursiveCo. i hope you are being sarcastic
 
it would no longer be for the sake of trying to make a good golfing language
 
@Razetime I am
 
if anything, i'd do it just to explore personally
 
well if you're doing funny things with it do tell me
 
@RedwolfPrograms fellow Technology Connections viewer? lol
 
4:10 PM
:p
Don't spoil it, I'm only halfway through the video
 
i did recently fix something hyper scrutinized me for over 3 years ago
Feb 16 '18 at 17:14, by HyperNeutrino
uh why would you not just reverse the order of class defs and take out all the REFs ಠ_ಠ you're slowing it down lol but w/e
so... progress? lol
 
lmao.
idk if refs actually slow it down
i believe so
but there should also be a way to resolve them first and then run the grammar thingy
 
@RedwolfPrograms have you reached 15:13? That has to be the funniest bit of any TC video
 
I have, definitely agree lol
 
@hyper-neutrino maybe but all of that is trumped by the fact that i severely overestimated the amount of effort it'd take to reverse them
 
4:19 PM
CMP: what is your text editor of choice?
 
neovim butterflies
 
Atom
Or Text if I'm on chrome
 
lemme see what that is
@pxeger I love this one
@RedwolfPrograms do you have a link to this?
 
@pxeger i never realized that cat was one of the ones mentioned lol
 
4:21 PM
 
I'm assuming Redwolf is referring to this?
 
yep i got it
I just switched to spacemacs today from Atom
it is pretty great and much faster
 
@totallyhuman yeah you just cut-paste the classes and reverse them and then you can even just run a regex to remove the REFs or smth lmao
 
@Razetime vis
 
4:24 PM
wow I've never heard of this
does it have apl extensions?
 
no
it has incomplete APL syntax highlighting and that's it
 
@Razetime Vim or NP++ depending on what I'm doing
 
Wait, can ROs kick mute moderators?
 
RO ABUSEEE!!!!!11!!1
 
Mods are immune
 
4:33 PM
Figured they would be, surprised it still shows the option
 
Easier than special casing the UI?
Chat is old.
 
@Wezl Still worth adding to APL Wiki.
@Wezl Wait, that's for Scintilla. What's going on here?
 
yeah, vis uses scintillua highlighting to go along with lua plugins
so there's nothing about APL specific to vis
 
So I can add both vis and Scintilla.
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ if you think it's worth adding
 
4:39 PM
Vis is Linux-only?
 
is software really any good if it isn't linux-only?
 
I think it's cross platform, lua+c
@pxeger posix-only is better
 
OK.
 
@Wezl but then there's macOS...
 
> In order to build vis you will need a C99 compiler, a POSIX.1-2008 compatible environment as well as:
 
4:41 PM
ROs aren't kick-immune though (at least I'm pretty sure) :p
 
@Wezl Sounds like Windows is out.
 
@pxeger I don't mind allowing people to use macos :|
 
ROs can remove other ROs' privileges though, can't they? So it would be useless if they were
 
oh yeah, they can
 
I've used vis on openbsd, so it's definitely not linux-only ;)
 
4:42 PM
æae: pastebin.com/raw/McyQyDHN probably very hard to golf
 
??
2
 
> ê SUBWAYtract
ĕ ←
ẹ →
ë æae
e eaea
this'll need some explaining
 
ok.
the ones that are arrows move around the array like <> in brainf
IDK what subwaytract does
 
@Razetime IDLE, but everything uses the same colour for syntax highlighting, which is the same colour as the background
 
4:46 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing coding blind?
 
and the ones like e and ë execute the letters specified.
 
@Wezl should work fine on wsl
although I'm not a fan of keeping my editors on an emulated env
 
@smarnav e runs eaea? so it recurses infinitely?
 
zup
yup
essentially prints "HOW DARE YOU NOT USE DIACRITICS?" forever
 
5:02 PM
@Razetime Of course. Makes debugging a lot harder, because you have to literally find the bug :P
 
very nice
now serious answer pls
 
@Razetime I don't actually use it, but I wanted to give an honorary mention to Kakoune since multiple vim-variants came up
I'd never heard of vis
 
kakoune is good but not windows friendly lol
I'd probably be using it otherwise
 
Darn Windows
 
windows is not friendly
 
5:05 PM
Get your act together
I think I asked about this once before, but now I'm seeing more CGCC people on the CGCC Discord than ever before:
What do people think of using chat.stackexchange vs. Discord?
 
discord is great
SE chat sucks
 
I mean, that's I was trying politely not to say, haha
So the question is really: what are our reasons for staying on chat.stackexchange?
 
tradition
 
if we're talking about CGCC, might as well do it on something connected to CGCC
 
@Adám I feel like this may have come up in the APL Orchard. Do you have any thoughts?
 
5:15 PM
attempts to detach the SE community from the SE platform don't tend to go to well, and chat.SE, as bad as it is, actually ties into the system
 
TNB feels like the chat for cgse related things, the discord server feels like a place for cgcc-ers to talk about other things
 
so even if the majority of the community moves somewhere else, there must be someplace to complain about SE discuss the codegolf.stackexchange site
 
@Wezl I mean I figured this would be a response. It's the only reason I can think of. But is that enought?
 
@AviFS I will stay on the SE chat as long as they don't oversimplify their logos.
 
@hyper-neutrino SE literally couldn't function without chat, because Charcoal
 
5:16 PM
brb oversimplifying all of our chat feed logos
@JohnDvorak that too
the thing is like
even though SE chat is old and bad and sucks
 
(unless they want to replace Charcoal with a swarm of employees
 
everyone* can participate in here, you have to have a discord account + stuff for discord, it's a slight barrier to entry

* - 20+ rep but that's basically anyone who'd be here anyway
 
it is integrated into SE (even if like an appendix is integrated into your body - it can cause more issues than it solves) which means user profiles are tied, you need to "prove yourself" (via 20 rep), etc
 
I feel like 20+ rep is a barrier to entry, but I get your point
 
well if you're gonna participate on SE anyway
not as much as having to create a discord account
 
5:18 PM
It's nontrivial when you're first starting out, and can be overwhelming.
You still have to work at it, and come up with something original
 
I second rak's sentiment that SE chat is the chat for SE and discord is the chat for the people of this place
 
@AviFS I personally don't like Discord's interface. I mainly stay on SE chat because it is findable.
 
Or at least, you might tell yourself that. You prob won't realize how easy it is to port and get upvotes, haha
 
well, CGCC's rep gain is... different :p
 
I'm not the biggest fan of SE chat either, and I do like discord, but I don't think it's really realistic to migrate stuff from se chat
 
5:20 PM
@Adám Oh really? What part?
Is it too noisy?
 
I like discord's interface and dislike SE's but this room is officially our room, any discord things would be unoficcial. it is impossible for us to migrate to discord as the chat platform, and both unlikely and probably very difficult for SE to try to do that themselves
like abandon their chat platform and use something else. at this point it doesn't make sense; chat is chat and rather bad but it's functional (citation-needed) enough to serve its purpose
 
@hyper-neutrino Are you repeatedly deleting and undeleting a certain post? I keep getting reputation changes from one post of yours.
 
@hyper-neutrino Yeah, it's true
 
@WheatWizard er, yes I was testing something. Sorry, I forgot about the reputation change from the downvote someone placed on it
 
But as is, I find the Discord server a bit confusing
@hyper-neutrino It's rather romantic to put it that way, and it sounds good
 
5:23 PM
That's fine. Was just wondering if this was a bug. And if I would be cursed to have this constant rep change forever.
 
@WheatWizard yeah that would be... extremely unfortunate
 
But in practice, it feels like just another TNB with way more channels, to me
 
the thing i was testing was that now this answer has 4 undelete votes on it, lol
 
And a slightly less active one these days
So given that we're all here, I never use it
Whereas, if we moved, not that it's necessarily feasible, then I'd use it
 
it's useful for discussions about particular topics that can last a lot longer than discussions here
partially due to the relative inactivity
 
5:25 PM
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think part of the reason it's not so great right now, is simply because we don't use it
And once we did, my sense is it'd be great
 
agreed
 
TNB is only one place. a discord server can have several channels, voice channels, categories, etc. so it's more complex but more versatile
granted, you can also just make more chat rooms here
 
I think there could be a balance
I'd like it if the server was more active definitely but also wouldn't want here to become totally inactive
 
when you beat a game after a week, try to take a screenshot, and accidentally reload the page
 
@hyper-neutrino Yeah, but the visibility is poor from one chat room to another
You can't just move to #off-topic easily
 
5:26 PM
like in discord?
 
@Wezl You know full well what it means: speedrun attempt
 
yeah :|
 
@rak1507 Yeah, that's just hard to do when there's no clear delineation
If there's nothing that strictly belongs here & there, then people will continue to mainly just use this
So long as they're used to it and it's reasonably active
 
thing is this place is easy to find for a user trying to chat with people or talk about something
 
It's true, not saying it's what we should do
Though certainly that's not a great reason not to
We can always just have pinned post to the Discord
 
5:29 PM
I just did the GMTK game jam recently and it got me thinking that it would be interesting to have a code-golf game jam. With significantly more time, approx one week maybe, but with a hard cap on how large the source code for you game could be.
 
And friendly people to welcome them but let them know that we spend most of our time elsewhere
@WheatWizard Ouch! I l love the general idea of combining a game jam and codegolf
But putting a hard limit on the source code length?
That just seems mean
 
@AviFS I feel like I don't, and never really have, "got" Discord
 
There must be another wa
 
I mean how else can you combine them?
I don't see what is mean about a size limit. That is golfing after all.
 
Idk, I have to think. But to not be able to add anymore at some point, without first condensing everything else feels like it could be annoying
 
5:32 PM
well, it's either that, or restricted source - no digits in your source code ;)
 
I mean it's true. I guess if you just went into it with that mindset from the beginning
Best Game under 10,000 bytes
 
Well you can make your game as big as you want while your working on it. Only your final submission would be capped.
 
But then what about different languages?
@WheatWizard True, true
But different languages?
 
if you make a functional game in jelly then like... 1. why would you do that to yourself
 
It seems like then lots of people will end up writing a game in a golfy lang, which may or may not be what you want
Would that be a win?
Or would we come up with "classes" of langs and give each a different cap
 
5:35 PM
Language definitely factors into things, I think that is not avoidable.
 
i suppose a text-based adventure game type thing wouldn't be too bad
 
@WheatWizard As in, we should or shouldn't make the byte count language-specific?
 
I think it would be better to not.
Keep the rules simple.
 
Generally I agree, just beware that it gives the advantage to the ones that torture themselves most
Which may or may not be desirable
 
Can you even do a graphical program in Jelly?
 
5:37 PM
Don't we have stats somewhere of the average length of an entry per lang?
I'm thinking one possibility is to have the limit be something like 100 times the average submission length in that language
 
I think it is a well known fact that games that can run in browser generally do better in game jams since people are not very inclined to download and run random code.
 
@WheatWizard not natively, but you can use python eval and then maybe do smth with that?
actually i don't think jelly lets you evaluate objects that aren't in the set of valid types for jelly
so you'd need to python eval the whole way and at that point there's no point in doing it anymore other than the save bytes the boring way
 
@AviFS You are going to have issues with langauges that aren't used on CG (languages designed for making games), and languages that have so few submissions the number is essentially random.
 
Easy! Limit it to ones that have 20+ submissions
Or some lower bound
That seems like it'd be fun because people would have to look down the table to find one with stats that pay off the best for them
 
that just gets too complicated lol, and we are generally opposed to restricting languages or stopping certain languages/people from competing for arbitrary reasons
 
5:41 PM
Like a pick-your-hero sort of thing. And it'd encourage people to use langs they otherwise might not if they good stats
 
Time to make 20 submissions in puzzlescript.
 
@Wezl I just lost the game ಠ_ಠ
 
@hyper-neutrino I think the other is far more restrictive
 
Really long submissions in puzzle script.
 
i think that's too much meta-gaming and i'd rather just see people think of clever game ideas themselves than spend time studying the language leaderboards :p
 
5:42 PM
Maybe for a different challenge then, it sounds fun to me!
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing ಠ~ಠ
 
I'm more bothered by the other, bc so long as some people have time to make a full game with a golf lang
 
@AviFS Not really sure, tbh. However, I can link to any message, and anyone with a webbrowser can go see the message with context. And search engines can find the chat.
 
Then you can't possibly hope to compete without using a golf game
 
Yeah, I think a little gaming is kind of nice. It can push you to try things you wouldn't do otherwise.
 
5:43 PM
Whereas the other way would allow people to use C/Java/Python/Ruby/Lisp, even if not some prof game-oriented lang
 
@WheatWizard js1k.com is really cool, I'd love to see this but without the language restriction
 
@Adám They can? I hadn't realized
@WheatWizard Sorry, in response to what?
 
I don't remember now.
 
maybe you cannot compete in a language you've used more than 10 times on this site /s
 
I'd also like it to be a bit broadly applicable. So that people that don't use the site might be able to join.
 
5:46 PM
@hyper-neutrino Time for my shitty homemade esolangs to shine :P
 
What should the rules about zip be? Should you be allowed to zip your source to save bytes?
 
and how do you score sprites, music etc? I guess you could just ban 'm
 
@Wezl They are part of the byte count. Just like an old gameboy game you need to do clever tricks.
The original pokemon sounds were actually just sections of source code that the devs thought sounded like animals. Since they didn't have the space to fit actual sound files.
 
talking of game jams, here's a fun game made by martin ender menderbug.itch.io/a-sailors-pastime
 
@WheatWizard so you can't have external files? Or how would you score filename etc?
 
5:49 PM
@Wezl You just say metadata abuse is against the rules.
@rak1507 That's how this idea started. I also did the same jam e-neighborhood-watch.itch.io/stuck-together
 
@WheatWizard oh cool
 
You would also want to ban things like fetching from external sources, and inventing new programming languages to trivialize the jam.
 
@Wezl This is really satisfying and prob doable in less graphically inclined langs: js1k.com/2019-x/demo/4155
 
6:08 PM
If you think JS is a bad language, just remember that in English, “thaw” == “unthaw”
7
 
Or that flammable = inflammable
 
Or that "slim chance" = "fat chance"
 
Or that “literally” = “not literally”
 
Does it?
ah sarcasm, haha
 
no really it's a useful feature. Let's add sarcasm to JS
5
 
6:26 PM
 
"yeah right" = "no way"
 
@AaronMiller Also, "dust" can be the opposite of "dust" :(
 
peruse apparently is the opposite of peruse
 
@AaronMiller That's soo sarcasm!
 
@Wezl I'm still trying to think of a place where this could be useful
rats, the /s regex flag is already taken
 
6:49 PM
0
Q: Side to side, not up and down

userTask Given a list of nodes representing a binary tree of positive integers serialized depth-first, return a list of nodes representing the same tree serialized breadth-first. To represent an absent child, you may use null, 0, 'X', Nothing, [], or any other value that is distinct from your represe...

 
^ I just realized I forgot to save the changes I made in the Sandbox earlier, but luckily there's a grace period
 
@NewPosts So we back in the mine, got our pickaxe swing from:
 
Did you accidentally hit enter there?
 
@user No, the title of the challenge finishes it :P
 
Oh lol
 

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