The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

23:00

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan I mean, I can fix that...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

T_T

quartata

That's mostly because most of those questions are either mistagged or are on Game Dev se though

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

ninja'd is sort of a meme - let's unlock the meme thread (although it's more like a slang term)

but it's for foreign users

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

No.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

it's already on the meme thread iirc

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

23:00

I think that's a bad idea.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ W_W

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ By the way, if you ever have a question about Hammer or Source internals this is the place to go: steamcommunity.com/app/211/discussions

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I see, thanks!

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan The other communities have their's open

quartata

Myself along with some other ~~nerds~~ colleagues patrol that pretty regularly

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

23:01

we're all nerds here >_>

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ This particular question wouldn't have fit

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ye XD

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ We're particularly bad though

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

._. okay

quartata

A notable and 100% false quote:

> I walk into a bar and say "Hey baby, i make levels on hammer" and i never go home alone -Earkham

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

23:02

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC the other communities don't have dozens of messages in their chatroom moved to the trash on a regular basis.

Downgoat

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC yes, but memes got out of hand in our community, evolving into pretty much spam

quartata

Plus, ninja'd isn't exactly a meme unique to us....

Quill

@quartata it's always nice to see communities with good knowledge sets

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

We need a list of slang in PPCG - just like python chat doed

*s

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

sighs

New Meta Posts

23:05

0

Q: Anti-golf questions

Would it be acceptable to ask questions here that ask for the biggest program to solve a problem, for some measure of big: characters, lines, bytes in memory etc.? And what sort of constraints would be necessary to avoid trivial near-infinite extensions of the size? For example, simply requiring ...

discussion

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

uh oh

Quill

@NewMetaPosts ewww

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Make a Fork Bomb code-golf under construction, please constructively (no pun intended) criticize Create a program which forks itself at least twice. Whether it continues forever or exits is your choice. Forks must be OS forks - no launching the program using open or whatnot. Rules No spoon ...

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

We need to make the sandbox bot faster

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata I now have two small stars on my pointless casual badge

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

23:06

5 minute delay

quartata

@NewMetaPosts dupehammer pls

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC There's nothing we can do about it, it's just how the feed feature works

It's not actually a bot

@Quill good but useless

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata custom bot coding skills to the rescue!

@quartata or just make a feature request

quartata

I mean I suppose some of us have made Source games but unless you shell out $25,000 for the Havok physics engine license you can't make any dough off of it

PhiNotPi

Very aesthetically pleasing youtube channel I just found: youtube.com/user/ISOGAWAYoshihito/videos

quartata

It's about as passionate as a passion project can get

Downgoat

23:09

I'm guessing it's a delay on the RSS feed and the delay/caching is for a reason so the SE servers don't blow up

quartata

@PhiNotPi heh

We get about a question a week about "making indie game with source engine." Just got one now actually

Quill

@Downgoat not really a problem with the RSS feeds

quartata

it's somewhat disheartening to break the news to them...

Quill

they get published instantly

the chat feeds get sent to chat via a recurring cron job

Downgoat

@Quill ah ok

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

23:12

Another challenge

Downgoat

@Quill idk i was just guessing

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

revival of underhanded

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Make innocuous-looking code that breaks the system in the worst possible way. popularity-contest please help improve this challenge. and at the risk of looking stupid - PLEASE OH PLZ HELP Yeah - that's just what I asked you to do. Rules Breaking a system doesn't just mean crashing your own ...

much better though

Make innocuous-looking code that breaks the system in the worst possible way.

also popularity-contest

Dennis

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC That violates at least two site rules and will get closed instantly.

Underhanded contests are officially off topic. So is asking for malicious code.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Dennis popularity-contest is the criterion

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

13

Q: Should asking for malicious code be on topic?

We're occasionally getting questions which ask people to write harmful code. This used to be big when code trolling was a thing, but it's not limited to that. Every now and then there are underhanded challenges or popularity-contests which ask participants to write malicious code (which may or ma...

discussion questions scope

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

23:14

@Dennis remember the one about breaking your programming language?

quartata

Malicious code is actually against the TOS

And underhanded is off topic now

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Breaking your own programming language (non-permanently) is very different from "Do as much damage to the Operating system as possible."

quartata

I like how my "possible duplicate" autocomment got 2 upvotes but no additional close votes

Dennis

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Rendering a language unusable is fixed by restarting the interpreter.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

what if I rephrased it to make sure the program asked if you wanted to crash your computer

quartata

23:15

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC No

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Dennis some of them broke your interpreter premanently

@quartata XD

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC What if a malicious user, took some code the community wrote for answers, and removed the prompt? You've essentially crowdsourced the writing of malware.

quartata

2 days ago, by quartata

> Subscriber represents, warrants and agrees that it will not contribute any Subscriber Content that... (e) contains a virus, trojan horse, worm, time bomb or other computer programming routine or engine that is intended to damage, detrimentally interfere with, surreptitiously intercept or expropriate any system, data or information, or (f) remains posted after Subscriber has been notified that such Subscriber Content violates any of sections (a) to (e) of this sentence.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan It sure does help the security teams too

Dennis

11

A: The state of the underhanded tag

Note that underhanded is not a winning criterion, unlike popularity-contest; it's more like math in that it's a specification of the content of the challenge. Underhanded challenges can be code golfs or popularity contests or whatever. I don't think the issue is that it's difficult to find a obje...

quartata

23:17

Pretty airtight right there

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Dennis it has popularity-contest

quartata

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC ?

It's an underhanded challenge

New Sandboxed Posts

-3

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Make innocuous-looking code that breaks the system in the worst possible way. popularity-contest please help improve this challenge. Yeah - that's just what I asked you to do. Rules Breaking a system doesn't just mean crashing your own process - it means crashing other processes, damaging t...

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata what about the ones that broke your programming language permantenly

quartata

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Show me them, I don't recall any like those. Those probably should be removed if they exist

Dennis

23:18

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Why do you keep saying that? An underhanded popularity contest is still underhanded. Thus, off topic.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata it's popularity contest by design - underhanded by description

@Dennis

> Note that underhanded is not a winning criterion, unlike popularity-contest

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

> Underhanded challenges can be code golfs or popularity contests or whatever. I don't think the issue is that it's difficult to find a objective winning criteria for them.

quartata

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC ? ? ? ?

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

good thing I didn't post this on main

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Your challenge is both a) underhanded and b) popularity contest.

quartata

23:19

The challenge has the underhanded tag

That's what matters

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@quartata ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿

Experiment Number One: Community reacts badly. Entire chatroom devoted to experiment no. 1

Downgoat

@NewSandboxedPosts vote to delete??? This is sandbox not main ._. You should leave a comment

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Downgoat yeah - thank goodness I didn't post it on main

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@Downgoat I don't feel like commenting since there's enough feedback here in chat.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

I have now measured that the community doesn't like these kinds of challenges

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

23:21

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC FWIW, you're not the first person to think of a challenge like that. I even tried to post one myself years ago.

quartata

@Downgoat It's because it's asking for malicious code, it should be deleted

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Deleted now:

quartata

That sort of thing shouldn't be anywhere on the site

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/4765/31716

Geobits

I dunno. The fact that it's asking for malicious code and is downvoted seems like a good signpost to me.

quartata

23:22

@Geobits That's not the point, really. Besides signposts in the sandbox will never be seen lmao

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

^

Geobits

Yeah, that's true.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

I was just about to say that.

Geobits

I think "it got quickly downvoted" is a better reason to delete from the sandbox than "it was about malicious code". On main, I'd recommend deletion.

self-deleted at least (in re sandbox)

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

Does that apply to this then? meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/9581/41088

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Make a Fork Bomb code-golf under construction, please constructively (no pun intended) criticize Create a program which forks itself at least twice. Whether it continues forever or exits is your choice. Forks must be OS forks - no launching the program using open or whatnot. Rules No spoon ...

Geobits

23:25

I was just considering that. It's borderline at best imo.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Well, this is locked so probably.

On the other hand, this is open, so I'm not sure.

Nathan Merrill

I asked this earlier, but why aren't there any exponential integer data types?

Quill

in what sense?

Geobits

Wow, there are about 400 [pokemon-go] questions on Arqade already.

Nathan Merrill

well, the range of E (the term I'll be using) is much larger than an standard int of the same number of bytes

but as you get higher the precision on the lower decimal places is reduced

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

23:28

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan phew

Dennis

@Geobits I only have one: What is Pokemon Go?

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

(not removed)

@Dennis a augmented reality game where you catch pokemon in real life destinations

Geobits

@Dennis Can I assume it hasn't been released in your country yet?

Even people around here that don't know what a Pokemon is suddenly know what Pokemon Go is.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

it's banned in the holocaust museum because to many people where playing it there @DEnnis

El'endia Starman

@Geobits I don't think it's been released in Britain yet, so South American countries will probably get it even later, if ever.

Dennis

23:31

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC OK, now I have more questions.

@Geobits No idea.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Dennis I'm listening

Geobits

@Dennis Do you know what Ingress is?

Dennis

Nah, I'll keep them to myself.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Dennis one church was a Pokéstop and now atheists are coming

same for police stations and holocaust museum

Quill

@NathanMerrill how do you verify the accuracy?

Dennis

23:33

@Geobits Not really.

Nathan Merrill

@Quill how is done with doubles?

Quill

also if you don't know how the double and float types are laid out internally, I suggest reading it

mınxomaτ

May 7 at 16:27, by mınxomaτ

Nathan Merrill

@Quill I do

Quill

okay

Geobits

23:34

@Dennis Ok, well the basics of PoGo are that you can walk around catching Pokemon. Certain locations (often public areas like churches, parks, etc) are designated Pokestops, where you can refill on items (Pokeballs, revives, etc). Other locations are gyms, where you can battle other people's pokemon to take over the gym for your team (there are three teams).

Nathan Merrill

maybe, something along the lines of "X digits * Y power"?

Geobits

It's caught on like wildfire in many places, with crowds around all the parks here. Not to mention the kid that keeps biking up and down my street hatching eggs.

Quill

@NathanMerrill how is that different from a double or float though, like how are you going to represent in the size of an int?

Dennis

O... K. That sounds weird.

Nathan Merrill

(1000101010)x2^(101010)

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

23:36

@Geobits I thought the basics of pogo are jumping up and down on a stick.

mınxomaτ

@Dennis Going outside? Yeah, I agree.

Nathan Merrill

@Quill double and floats allow for decimal representation, which is unneeded

El'endia Starman

@Geobits I seriously wonder if more people will have their lives prolonged by playing Pokémon Go due to the exercise than will be negatively impacted by doing stupid stuff.

Quill

instagram.com/p/BHyezP2hYUh

Nathan Merrill

we're gaining additional storage by removing that

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

23:37

Jul 8 at 21:18, by Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

I tried going outside once. The graphics were incredible, but the story line was horrendous.

mınxomaτ

Jul 8 at 21:41, by mınxomaτ

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan That's what Ingress or Pokemon Go are for. They give the boring outside a story ;)

We had that conversation already :D

Geobits

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Capitalization matters. <insert something about Uncle Jack here>

Downgoat

@quartata ok yeah good point >_>

Geobits

Yeah because the backstory in pokemon was always riveting >_>

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@mınxomaτ oh. I don't even remember that.

Nathan Merrill

23:40

@Geobits the critical part of the pokemon backstory was picking a real-life rival to use.

Geobits

@Dennis It is. I wouldn't say it's weirder than code golf, but it is a bit strange. Still fun.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Family Tree, Folder Tree Given a simple family tree in a format reasonably similar to the format outlined below, create a file tree to match it, as explained below. Input An ascii family tree in a similar format to the following: Grandpa Jim = Grandma Jane ...

mınxomaτ

Time Warner's online auth API's security leaves something to be desired. In other news: Finally managed to get a flawless 1080p stream of the USA network to Germany.

Dennis

@Geobits Um, yeah, I usually have a hard time explaining when I'm sitting at my computer and somebody asks What are you doing?

El'endia Starman

@Dennis "There are many ways to solve a problem and I'm trying to find the shortest."

Geobits

23:42

"why?"

Downgoat

question: Which sounds better: cut or slice for getting a substring from a string?

Geobits

substring

Dennis

What Geobits said.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@El'endiaStarman In a language that like 3 people can understand.

Dennis

(why, not substring)

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan And I made.

Downgoat

23:43

@Geobits that's 9 characters o_O, waddya think, I'm making Java? :P

El'endia Starman

@Dennis At least two possible answers: "Because it's fun." or "Hey, I don't question your esoteric pleasure-seeking activities, so don't question mine!"

Geobits

@Downgoat You didn't ask which was golfier. That should be obvious.

Downgoat

@Geobits i asked which was best between the two though

Quill

@Downgoat "I'm not building a golfing language" he says

Nathan Merrill

well, you could do slice, but that only make sense if it uses the exact syntax as array slicing

Downgoat

23:44

@Quill yeah but i personally don't like verbose code

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat I would suggest substr if it's specifically a string-related operation. If it's a general iterable (str, list, etc) operation, slice.

Geobits

If you want to make a function that gets substrings, substring isn't a terrible choice. You can use whatever you want, but...

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman well i guess so. The logo is a slice of cheddar anyway

Dennis

This being Cheddar, I'd go with cutTheCheese.

Geobits

I thought it was a wedge of cheddar. I don't slice my cheese that way.

Quill

23:45

@Downgoat verbose code is what happens when your internal methods are like four namespaces in, not when a function name is four chars longer

El'endia Starman

@Dennis Golfier: fart.

Dennis

Downgoat

@Quill Though no one wants to type 9 characters for such a basic operation.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Dennis no, be pythonic and do cheese.cut() or cheese.slice()

Downgoat

@Dennis this is new design philosophy brb

Nathan Merrill

23:47

you know, outside of this site, I rarely use substring

Dennis

@Downgoat Are you related to Kenneth Iverson by any chance?

Downgoat

:|

not that i know of

Geobits

@Downgoat Most people actually don't care that much outside golfing. I don't recall most people complaining about long function/class names unless they're really long, like 25+.

Dennis

Yeah, Julia's Base.SubstitutionString is pretty bad...

Quill

@Downgoat users will do anything if the language is good enough

Dennis

23:50

No match for itertools.combinations_with_replacement though.

Downgoat

screw it changing all method names to what jelly uses

Nathan Merrill

@Dennis I use this function (with its siblings) all the time too

Quill

Java programmers like the language, so they put up with its verbosity. If cheddar is a good language, then people will do whatever they must to use it. Don't bend to the will of the users

Nathan Merrill

and Java isn't that verbose

Downgoat

but cheddar is not popular nor coffee so people wont have any reason to like it besides me sending out a free slice of cheddar cheese to whoever buys a pack of cheddar stickers

Nathan Merrill

23:52

its all the people that say "write getters and setters for every variable" that make things verbose

Quill

lol. I actually started following the same convention in JS

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@Downgoat I'd buy cheddar stickers if you made them.

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill public static final void

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan wait rly?

Nathan Merrill

@Downgoat that's not even valid

Downgoat

strawpoll.me/10741340

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

23:54

@Downgoat unless they're crazy expensive.

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill i never learned java, sorry >_>

Nathan Merrill

@Downgoat still isn't valid. If its a variable, it can't be void. If its a function, it can't be both static and final

:)

Downgoat

why do i need to prove this, i thought it was already well established that Java is verbose af

Nathan Merrill

lol, I agree. I just think its a necessary verbosity

Quill

Java seems verbose when you come back from golfing languages

Nathan Merrill

23:55

well, in most cases

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@Quill java is verbose even if you come from C.

Or C++

Downgoat

has anyone heard of/is familar with "PSPrint"?

trying to find a good sticker company

Dennis

The first time I never heard of Java, I considered learning it. I looked at a sample program (Hello, World!) and it scared me off immediately.

Downgoat

^ exact same story here

Aearnus

classic Android, forcing you into using java ;(

Nathan Merrill

23:57

IMHO, the worst problem is that Java lacks auto. Everything else makes sense due to static typing

Quill

@Downgoat tshirts are better

Downgoat

@Quill do you know of a company that does both?

Quill

something something Java 7

Geobits

@Aearnus Android is when and why I learned Java.

Downgoat

> No (;_; y u do dis)
4 votes (67%)

;_;

what if i ship the stickers to you for free

Aearnus

23:59

i've actually taken to writing a lot of stuff using the NDK - it's gross but at least i can write in a language i enjoy

Geobits

@Downgoat not a fan of random acts of vandalism. Sorry

@Aearnus lol it really is gross

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

> Yes ( :D :D :D \o/ \o/ \o/ ) 1 vote

:D

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