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6:00 PM
@SimonH. I feel like you're adding a lot of extra rolls and time to achieve critical hits. But if it works for your table, so beit
 
Oh, you can split your movement. You can move-attack-move as long as your total movement doesn't exceed your speed.
 
Wait what
 
@MikeQ yeah. I thought doubling on crits was OP so I've been doing extra rolls instead.
maybe that could add up, I dunno.
 
So it's no longer a binary Action-Movement combination?
 
Right
 
6:01 PM
Oh, fighters no longer automatically get followers and a stronghold at higher levels.
 
@SimonH. Ah yes, then that's just confirming critical hits. PF does that. Exploding dice is if you roll max on the damage dice roll, you roll ANOTHER damage die and add it. And that additional die can explode too!
 
@SimonH. really? I find crits underwhelming
 
And there are actions that you can perform for free while you're moving.
 
Free actions?
Like what?
 
The Leadership feat existed to sort of offer this in 3.x, I don't know if 4E or 5E kept it.
 
6:01 PM
Like drawing a weapon, that kind of thing
 
....
 
There's a list of them in the PHB
 
@SimonH. when you say "doubling", you mean "rolling double damage dice", right?
 
Later editions have the 'action economy'. Full round action, attack action, move action, free action.
 
@Anoplexian drawing your sword to attack. But you can't sheathe one weapon and draw/use another (you can only basically get 1 'free' interaction per turn)
 
6:02 PM
Oh dear.
You. You haven't heard about attacks of opportunity.
 
@MikeQ oh I can definitely see where that could add up
 
Someone break out the powerpoint projector.
 
If I have a longsword out, can I unsheathe as a free action for dual wield?
 
Oh, right. Were attacks of opportunity a thing in 2e?
 
or we can just let htem read the PHB first :)
 
6:02 PM
Yes.
 
Sort of. Disengaging was a different beast in 2E.
 
Were they square-based?
 
Square based?
 
@Hypersapien no
@Anoplexian he's alluding to a combat grid (with squares)
 
2E did not automagically assume a mat/squares were in play. It listed everything in feet.
 
6:03 PM
Oh.
 
I thought it would be okay to have a critical confirm because if they roll a second 20 then they can do it a third time as well, meaning there's still a small chance of damage shenanigans
 
Because they're simpler now than they were in 3.5. I don't know how they worked in 2e.
 
In 2e if you wanted to retreat, didn't you just roll a new character
 
We didn't play on grids, we used a measured string.
 
@SimonH. It works okay in systems where everyone uses the same damage dice (for example, using a d10 in a d100 system). In 5e, damage numbers are generally within the same wheelhouse, so doubling the damage of one attack isn't that crazy.
 
6:04 PM
Basically, if you move out of an enemy's threatened range without withdrawing (which uses your entire action) the enemy gets an AOO.
 
Which does what? Same as a normal attack as a free action during another's turn?
 
Or if you perform an action under certain conditions in reach of an enemy.
 
@Hypersapien @Anoplexian The Action you take to move away without getting an OA is a Disengage.
 
The attacker usually just gets an attack, but in some classes/powers there are other actions available during an AoO.
 
In 3.5, if you moved out of any threatened square, even if you were still in the threat range of the same enemy, they'd get an AOO.
 
6:05 PM
So wait, what is this about square based? Is it no longer in feet?
 
I think 5E still has this concept, but I'm unsure as to the specifics.
 
Sorry. Disengage. Not withdraw.
 
Like 10 feet movement and such?
 
oh. I understand. Yea. you're just confirming crits a la 3.x

That's fine, I guess. But you're causing the game to do less damage as a whole.

I thought you were saying something else.
 
A square is 5 feet.
 
6:05 PM
It still lists things in feet but about 3.5 onward assumes you're doing squares of 5 feet.
 
Wait.
3.5 or 5?
 
@Anoplexian 5, and count your prayers that you don't have to worry about the ALMIGHTY FIVE-FOOT STEP
 
@Maximillian ?
 
@Anoplexian It's still in feet. There is an optional rule of using a grid of 5-feet
 
6:06 PM
Ok.
 
Typo.
Oh god five foot steps lets spare him that.
 
How do diagonal moves work then?
 
@goodguy5 sorry, I know I can be confusing sometimes
 
Every other square is double cost.
 
Depends on the DM.
 
6:06 PM
@Anoplexian up to the GM
 
If a square is 5 foot, the hypotenuse?
 
2 EAGLES IN THE NEST
 
Diagonals are usually 1 square - 2 square - 1 square, etc.
or 5ft - 10ft -5 ft, etc
 
@SimonH. The chance of 20/20/20 in a campaign is very low. 0.05^3 is 0.000125, one eightieth of a percent.
 
How does it handle partial squares then?
 
6:07 PM
@Maximillian Which is effectively using the hypotenuse and then rounding down to the nearest multiple of 5
 
You should never design rules around it.
 
I have one DM that has odd-numbered diagonals as double. My other DM counts all diagonals as single.
 
I don't think partial squares exist.
 
@Anoplexian it doesn't
For the little bit that it matters, rounds are 6 seconds now, not a full minute.
 
A square can have conditions like rough terrain, smoke, low light, darkness.
 
6:07 PM
Rounds used to be a minute?
 
So if I have a 13 foot movement, I have a 15 foot movement in reality?
 
@goodguy5 Wasn't it only 1 minute outdoors in 2e
 
Yeah
 
6 seconds indoors, 1 minute outdoors
 
@SPavel so would that throw off the system? I'd assume the odds of a crit would be taken into account in the D&D system
 
6:08 PM
You're not going to have a 13 foot movemet
 
@SimonH. The odds of 20/20 are.
 
Wait why not?
 
@Anoplexian You probably wouldn't have a 13 foot movement. They are usually specified in increments of 5, because the system assumes units of 5 ft squares.
 
Oh.
That's
Odd
 
Base movement is 30 feet. Stats can change that up and down in increments of 5.
 
6:08 PM
> odd
 
@Anoplexian Not really. The system is designed to be played on a unit grid, rather than open space with scientifically measured distance
 
How do diagonal attack work?
 
@Anoplexian well... like.... Characters usually have 30 feet of movement. If you tell your DM "I move 17 feet", then you're not playing on a grid.
 
AM I a rook all of a sudden?
 
@Anoplexian No, diagonal adjacent is still adjacent
 
6:09 PM
Adding a third degree effect just means that it never happens so characters whose other options are dinged because they ~could~ roll triple 20 see no benefit, but the rarity of the effect means that if it ever did happen, the benefits would need to be outstanding
 
You can attack all 8 surrounding squares. No difference.
 
So a square extends in a larger square for adjacents?
Ok.
 
it's like having a malnourished, blind gerbil as a party member but he carries a nuclear weapon
Can't be balanced.
 
So why is attacking diagonal considered adjacent but not diagonal movement?
 
@SPavel Everyone knows that Malnourished Blind Gerbil was an OP prestige class
 
6:10 PM
@Anoplexian It's basically whether or not a creature is in your reach. Reach is general 5' for most melee weapons, but polearms can be 10'. Reach can also be determined by creature (some monsters have long arms :) )
 
Like, my wood elf has a speed of 35, but my gnome has a speed of 25.
 
@Anoplexian No no, basically what's happening is that distance has to be simplified because they're playing on a unit grid. You can move diagonally, but since you're moving diagonally along squares, then the math is a bit difference for calculating how far you can move.
 
@MikeQ I've heard no end to arguments that time-weasel is the spiritual successor to the malnourished blind gerbil archetype, so we don't need an update to the PrC
 
Ok.
 
I don't think it's going to throw off the system much, but you're messing with class features that rely on (or benefit from) crits.
Barabarian
Champion Fighter
Paladin
Sneak Attack, specifically assassins
 
6:12 PM
So how does it handle monsters >5ft wide?
 
Good lord are we still talking about time-weasels in here?
 
Do they get extra squares?\
 
@Anoplexian yes. lemme find an infographic
 
Medium creatures are 5ft. Large are 10x10, and so on.
 
@Maximillian The non-linear nature of time-weasels means that we always have been, always are, and always shall be talking about them
 
6:12 PM
@Anoplexian Most creatures are assumed to occupy a NxN amount of space (5x5, 10x10, 15x15, etc)
 
@Anoplexian Via "controlled space". Actual size of creature is different than the space they control.
 
Does that follow the same for prone enemies/friendlies?
 
But the rules around reach are determined by their stat block and not their size or controlled space.
 
So if a 20 foot tall giant is 5x5, do they become 4x1 if prone?
 
6:13 PM
@Anoplexian No, a 2 foot tall giant controls a 5x5 space. Always.
 
@Anoplexian No, they still "occupy" the 5x5 space, because again, the world is divided into 5ft blocks
 
Lol
Typo
 
If prone, you have advantag eon melee attacks against them and disadvantage on ranged attacks against htem. THey also have disadvantage on their attacks against you.
 
Think of it as a hitbox like in a video game. Even if the stance of the creature changes, the game only sees it as a box on a grid.
 
^^
 
6:14 PM
Ok.
 
So 5e plays a bit like an RTS then?
 
@Anoplexian It's not real-time or strategy, so no
 
4E played like an RTS. 5E is a little better about it.
 
Not really. It's still turn based
 
6:15 PM
@Anoplexian The turn-based strategy aspect is similar to 5e's combat
 
Everyone hated 4e
 
4E allowed me to get WoW gamers into D&D so I have neutral feelings on it.
 
@Maximillian Neutral good or neutral evil?
 
@Hypersapien there are a few people that really liked it.
 
Those people are wrong :P
 
6:16 PM
Wait @Hypersapien what is a Threatened area?
 
The area a character threatens with it's current weapon.
 
Wouldn't that just be its reach?
 
The area that they can hit with a normal sized melee weapon
 
If something provokes an attack of opportunity in threat range, they usually get an attack. Reach is the range granted by the weapon.
 
Ok.
So I can attack in my reach, but I get AOO on threatened range.
Have they also reduced the size pools?
 
6:17 PM
@Anoplexian Kind of, but there are a lot of rules about it. For example, a bow can shoot a target 80+ ft away, but doesn't usually threaten any spaces.
 
So I can't whack people with my bow? ;)
 
This created a scenario one of my players did not like. a spear attacks 10 feet away. It cannot attack 5 feet away. And in measurement rules, your first diagonal is 5 feet away the second diagonal is 15 feet away. As written, you couldn't attack diagonally.
 
@Anoplexian By default, no, but there may be a class/archetype/feat that lets you do it
 
There might be special staff bows
Don't expect a normal bow to survive intact
You can ask. Your DM might allow it.
 
Fair enough. Is Huge, Ginormous, etc a thing still?
Or have they simplified that as well.
 
6:19 PM
Huge, Colossal.... I forget the scale.
 
There's no penalty for attacking with a ranged weapon from an adjacent square, though.
 
It also goes down really tiny too.
 
@Anoplexian In 3.x/PF it goes Fine, Diminutive, Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge, Gargantuan, Colossal
 
There's no minimum range?
@mikeQ That sounds about the same, cool.
 
6:20 PM
Well you don't want to use a bow at 5 feet. Usually shooting in someone's melee range provokes an AoO.
 
@Maximillian Or, disadvantage on the attack roll. Depends on what system we're talking about.
 
@Anoplexian OAs are only for melee reach. So yes, it's all about reach.
 
Wait, that's 3.5
 
Wait so how are AOO calculated?
If you attack someone, they can autoatically AOO?
 
Only under a certain list of documented conditions.
 
6:21 PM
No, AOO is for when you leave their threatened area without disengaging
 
5E has probably changed that up, I'm speaking to 3.5/PF
 
@Anoplexian No, an attack of opportunity CAN be triggered by certain conditions. Usually that includes "they move away un-safely"
 
Of course on move away, but are there others? For instance, I can fire and use movement in combination right?
 
@Anoplexian Think of it like you personally control the 5x5 space around you. If something enters that space, you can hit them via a melee attack. And if you try and shoot a ranged attack at something that is within 5' of you, then you are at disadvantage unless you take the feat that allows you to ignore that. If an enemy is within your reach and leaves without Disengaging from your combat, you get an OA against them.
 
So it's on the movement where I'd incur it, not the attack right?
 
6:22 PM
There are some classes that can perform actions as a "response" to getting attacked, but that's too advanced for this discussion
 
@Anoplexian Depends on the system
 
Being Legolas knocking arrows into orcs in melee takes some serious work to become.
 
Lol
 
Also you have to provide your own 'thwip' noises.
 
@Anoplexian In 5e, you can break up your movement, Action and bonus action (unless the bonus action has a specific trigger...but even then there are some exceptions) however you'd like.
 
6:23 PM
@NautArch I mentioned that
 
@Maximillian WHAT!?!? Those were provided for in 2e......
 
TIMES HAVE CHANGED.
 
It's a Brave New World.
 
This world sucks.
No Thwip noises?
 
They're there, you just have to make them yourself.
 
6:24 PM
Oh yeah. If you don't make "thwip" noises, none of your class features will work
 
Or you can hire an industrial effects engineer for your table.
 
What about sheathing noises? Please tell me those still exist!
 
Though personally I just used the sound library in roll20 that had some sound FX in it.
 
Oh come on. This is the 21st century. Everyone at the table will have a cell phone they can download whatever sound effects they want into.
 
6:25 PM
This world is new and weird.
No 'thwip', no 'shwing', what else will they take from me? OH! The injustice!
 
Oddly enough, I think Magic Missile is still mostly the same.
 
I think I have a lot of reading to do before Saturday.
 
@Anoplexian Three of the players in my games are an older lesbian couple and their 10 year old daughter.
 
Both me and my gf are new, but she watched the entire Critical Role series.
She hates the new one though.
@Hypersapien Do they provide sufficient 'thwip' and 'shwing' noises when arrows hit or swords unsheathe?
If not then Idk if 5e is right for me.
 
@Maximillian maic missile is no longer "things you can see" as it was once.
 
6:28 PM
It still doesn't miss, right?
 
Right
 
Wait you can hit around walls with magic missile? O.o
 
Autohit
 
Magic Missile is a staple, reliable low damage spell.
 
It automatically hits, but it doesn't do much damage.
 
6:29 PM
@Maximillian right, but it used to have no range. Now there is range
 
Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
 
So it's a trade off
 
Yeah but I remember needing to see them.
 
@Anoplexian no. it's still line of sight
 
Ok.
 
6:29 PM
@Anoplexian No, you still need line of sight (and windows BREAK line of sight in 5e)
 
Wait why?
 
@NautArch wait. What? Windows break line of sight?
 
How does that even work OR make sense?
 
@NautArch just ignore that
 
When was that established?
 
6:30 PM
@Anoplexian Because Windows is terrible and wizards should use Linux
 
One of those cases where crawford is butting in where he doesn't belong
 
@NautArch not line of sight
 
I'd rather not have to compile my character sheet.
 
more like line of effect
 
"Roll for Compiling".
 
6:30 PM
but that also is not a term in 5e
 
@Rubiksmoose sorry, targeting :)
 
@Hypersapien in 5e windows provide full cover because there is an object completely covering you. This prevents being targeted by almost everything except a few odd spells that ignore cover.
 
@MikeQ Compile your own adventure?
 
@Anoplexian Jeremy Crawford. He's basically the Supreme Court of D&D. He decides what's legal and canon and what isn't.
 
6:32 PM
So you would be untargetable by carrying a window shield?
Or even just a big window?
 
@Anoplexian It would have to be a very large one, but theoretically yes
 
By magic missle, yes. By a warhammer, not so much.
 
@Hypersapien exactly
and using both your hands to hold up a window would be a huge waste of your action :)
 
@Rubiksmoose .....Why?
 
@Hypersapien technically not true. Full cover prevents you from being targeted by anything.
 
6:33 PM
Honestly that seems to be a pretty easy loophole to exploit.
 
@Anoplexian it needs to be big enough to provide full cover.
 
Look, in my world, you can generally target things through windows.
the book says "A Clear Path to the Target", which a window is clear so.....
 
I'm pretty sure most DMs would ignore that rule
 
@Anoplexian Depending on the system, if you're fully hidden behind something, then it counts as full cover, and you are untargetable. Of course, you can't fire back through it.
 
Could you not use a tower shield and crouch?
Tower window*
 
6:34 PM
@Anoplexian there are no tower shields in 5e, but that is the basic idea
 
Wait then what do Paladins use?
 
@Anoplexian It's assumed that if a shield is small enough to carry, then it's too small to count as full cover
 
I've said wait so many times.
 
One big problem in 5e is the dearth of interesting weapons and shields
 
@MikeQ Correct.
 
6:35 PM
Even despite inventory weight?
 
There's no compound bows, either.
 
@Hypersapien this is very true. You can retheme weapons as you want, but by default there are very few options.
 
@Hypersapien just reskin something else
 
If I'm thinking about it, a 6 foot shield of metal is about 70-80 lbs.
 
Did they take out the Spiked Chain?
 
6:36 PM
@Hypersapien yup
 
dammit
 
@Anoplexian 5e is all about simplifying things, so all* shields are simplified to a single Shield item
 
I wonder how ineffective a dual wielder with whips is....
 
Is there an Ad&D5e?
 
Yeah. In some cases they simplified things too much. Like taking out skill ranks.
 
6:37 PM
@goodguy5 Have you heard about kensai monks?
 
I feel like there's a lot of good simplifications, like removal of THAC0, but that seems a bit silly.
Shields are an integral part of being either a warrior or paladin.
 
@KorvinStarmast It's part of DDAL07-01. (That's a five-parter; I forget which part the races were.)
 
From my experience*
 
@Anoplexian There is still a shield item, but only the one.
"Shield. +2 AC"
 
Wait it doesn't matter what material it is?
 
6:38 PM
@MikeQ vaguely, why?
 
Now your skill is the mod for that skill's attribute + your proficiency bonus if you have proficiency in that skill.
 
@Anoplexian You may enjoy Pathfinder then. It's similar to D&D3, a bit streamlined, but still lots and LOTS of options
@goodguy5 Pick an item, use it as finesse, use it in a flurry. You can choose whips.
 
I'll take a look.
 
@Anoplexian There are a minor handful of spells that matter what the material is (shocking grasp has advantage against metal).
 
I mean in terms of AC.
 
6:39 PM
@Hypersapien fwiw I would not recommend ignoring or changing the cover rules because it will throw a decent number of things into chaos.
 
@Anoplexian oh. nope.
 
If I have a shield of wood, is it not different than one of the magical metal mithryl?
 
@Rubiksmoose I have the Sharpshooter feat. It lets me ignore all partial cover.
 
@Anoplexian well... then it's a magical shield and that's a different issue
 
@Anoplexian In 5E - maybe, but 5E is very light in terms of magic items
 
6:40 PM
Wait why?
 
I mean wood vs steel vs some other weird but mundane material
 
Isn't that what most of D&D is about?
Story and magical items?
 
@Hypersapien that is good. No bonus to AC for them. (You're still screwed if they're under full cover of course)
 
No, D&D is about legal code and precedent.
 
I wouldn't say it's light in magic items. It's nowhere near as heavy as 3.5 was.
 
6:41 PM
How does it compare to a2e?
I remember literally SLOGGING through the manuals for magical items.
 
@Hypersapien Which is good because it means you are the hero and not your collection of magical items.
 
@Rubiksmoose I have an Arcane Archer and one of my Arcane Shots is Seeking Arrow.
 
@Anoplexian The theory in this edition is that magic items are supposed to be powerful and very special so they mean more and so there is less power creep. But they also leave it up to the DM to decide how much to add.
 
in 3.x and 4, magic items were a part of your progression. If a 10th level adventurer didn't have 30k GP in magic, then they were not a level 10 character
 
So are there no weak magical items that are common anymore?
For instance, pots that help burn food less etc?
 
6:42 PM
@Anoplexian, yeah. actually there's a big list of them.
 
@Anoplexian I don't think there is an entry in the book for that, but the DM is welcome to give the PCs a "pot of not burning your food"
 
I think it's in Xanthar's
 
Ok, that makes me feel a bit better.
 
Oh Xanthar's still exists?
 
6:43 PM
And homebrew if you feel like it.
 
Yeah, they just came out with the 5e verson last november
 
I actually prefer these enchantments to more game-changing ones.
 
Adamantine of Adamantine This item is indestructible.
Really?
 
Actually, I didn't know it was an old school thing until you just said that.
 
@Anoplexian Note columns "Prefix" and "Suffix".
 
6:43 PM
One of the big advantages of 5e being so simplified, is that a DM/GM can easily homebrew some material without worrying about cost-balance stuff.
 
So that would either be an "adamantine longsword" or "Longsword of Adamantine".
 
@Hypersapien That seems like it does not actually ignore total cover to me from a breif reading
 
Gotcha.
 
And that's also the most boring of the enchantments, imo.
 
Compare that to 3.x, there are a zillion magic items, and characters absolutely depend on them, so everyone has this itemized sheet of numbers and prices and headaches
 
6:44 PM
Volo's is out as well, and Mordenkainen's is coming out sometime soon.
 
"Drunkard's/of Taverns" is one of the more amusing ones.
 
@Rubiksmoose There needs to be a path, but as long as I've seen the target in the last minute it still hits.
 
@Hypersapien Yeah, if you have total cover it is possible that you don't have a path
but also possible that you do.
 
If they go into a room and close the door, and there's no other way in, it doesn't hit.
 
Yup makes sense.
 
6:46 PM
So, Ano. The long and short of this...

5e is a good version of D&D. You'll be fine. Don't expect a ton of world-bending magic items and try not to get yourself killed.
 
@Hypersapien Sort of. It wasn't called Xanthar's from what I remember, but every DM I played with used a variation off the Encyclopedia Magica.
 
speaking of which, dying is better.
 
Yeah, it used to be 4 books of Magical items.
 
@Anoplexian IIRC, it was something like "Magic Item Compendium"?
 
6:48 PM
@Yuuki that was 3.x
 
Encyclopedia Magica.
 
@goodguy5 Yeah, I thought we were talking about 3.x?
In comparison to 5e.
 
No, AD&D2E
 
@Yuuki no. ano is coming off 2e
 
2.5 to be exact.
:P
 
6:49 PM
:rolling_eyes:
*Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, Second Edition*
to be exact
 
HEY!
Look what I found!
48
Q: How does D&D 5e compare to AD&D 2e?

Matt ThrowerI played 1st and 2nd edition AD&D a lot back in the day. But when 3rd edition came out, I dropped out of the hobby. Partly I just couldn't be bothered to re-learn the rules. The conversion systems, previews and material for 3rd edition I was seeing in Dragon and Dungeon magazines made it look lik...

I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone for the words of encouragement and help discovering some of the main differences between the two editions. I think I have a grasp on things that are radically different and have a mind for what to expect going into session 0 on Saturday.
 
@Anoplexian I assume you will be a player and not the DM
 
@goodguy5 I also think one user, I think @gaelL, made a whip/net dual wielder.
 
@Anoplexian Do you have any idea what you're going to be playing?
 
@MikeQ Yes.
Uhhh yes let me check. I got a text with 3 books the DM is bringing.
Starter Set, Monster Manual and PHB.
So I assume the starter adventure.
 
6:58 PM
@NautArch that's delightful.
 
Are there any level limits in 5e?
 
Cool.
I just hope 5e adventures are less.....linear compared to A2E
 

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