TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

1:20 AM

@BESW I'm torn by the irony: the submission guidelines for 1-pg dungeons are 9 pages long.

trogdor

That also implies a lot of restrictions tacked on to a frontloaded restriction

Not that I was planning to submit something myself anyway

But that would have possibly made me reconsider if I was

Shalvenay

1:44 AM

hey there @goodguy5

goodguy5

oh hey

nitsua60

Hi @Miniman--been a while.

Hiya @Shalvenay, @goodguy5

Shalvenay

how're things going?

goodguy5

Well... paying bills.

so... funfunfun

Miniman

2:19 AM

@nitsua60 Hey! I haven't been on here much since I got a job that actually involves doing some work.

nitsua60

@Miniman Still happy with it? (And aren't you there now?)

Miniman

@nitsua60 Yes, extremely! And lunch.

@SevenSidedDie I question the addition of sexuality to that question.

nitsua60

Cool. Any good stories from the first week(s)?

Miniman

Not a whole lot - just a steady stream of interesting amd challenging work XD

nitsua60

Sounds rewarding.

trogdor

2:32 AM

Boy do I want that back XD

The Oracle

3:07 AM

0

Q: Does this type of question count as "getting outdated quickly"?

Current status of the UA Revised Ranger Does that Sourcebook exist yet? If not, have the devs given an update or told us their intentions? The bolded question seems similar to the reason we frown on question about shopping recommendation: they get outdated quickly. When this type of questi...

discussion

goodguy5

3:45 AM

I think you can raise dead a person that's been turned into a zombie, after you kill the zombie (provided they're still within the window for raise dead).

But, can you cast regenerate on a zombie of a person that was missing body parts in order to regrow those parts, then kill the zombie, then raise dead the person with their body parts regenerated?

(Yes, You could just cast Resurrection on them to regrow bodyparts)

trogdor

Couldn't you also raise dead, then regenerate?

CTWind

Depends how essential the missing body parts are.

trogdor

It seems functionally the same except for not needing to cast a spell on an undead that it presumably harder to fight

CTWind

Basically if the person can't live without whatever's missing (heart, head, etc.) then raise dead/regenerate won't work, as the target couldn't be raised/would instantly die again. If theoretically a regenerating zombie would get a heart to grow back, you could do that, kill it, then raise dead.

trogdor

Mk well that's all my 2 cents worth on this theoretical problem

I just find it a little silly that a spell that literally brings someone back to life can't sustain that life long enough to cast one more spell

Yes, one assumes that they died because they were injured in a way they,... Could not survive

goodguy5

3:59 AM

@CTWind exactly.

doppelgreener

9:01 AM

o/

kviiri

Hi!

doppelgreener

Ahoy!

kviiri

We did some Arduino programming yesterday. Our "puzzle bomb" now has an accompanying instruction module!

We're building a physical version of "Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes". Sans any real explosives, of course.

kviiri

9:40 AM

Hm, I actually feel tempted to ask a designer-reasons question about 5e.

Weird day this is

Except it's already been asked, after a bit of googling. I'll create signpost dupe for it

The Oracle

10:35 AM

2

Q: Should I opt not to create a signpost duplicate for a question that would be opinion-based if asked today?

Today, I started wondering why in 5e, the DMG calculates encounter difficulty as "adjusted XP" which is adjusted by the total number of enemies in the encounter, but doesn't award the adjusted value as XP to the players. Turns out we have a question for that already, from 2014: Why don't players ...

discussion duplicates

doppelgreener

11:11 AM

@kviiri Radical :D

goodguy5

12:27 PM

Morning nerds

kviiri

Sup

BESW

@kviiri [wave] I hope my advice works out!

kviiri

@BESW me too ^^

Granted, curating old questions is not exactly a huge deal and the matter is more of an academic curiosity to me.

BESW

"Run A Heist In 5E!" ...why would you do that when there are so many awesome heist systems already!

kviiri

DnD default at works

BESW

12:40 PM

I mean, yes, the article's from the D&D 5e Patreon. But, um, sometimes "stay in your lane" is good advice.

trogdor

@BESW lol

because you still think D&D is the only RPG

SPavel

1:03 PM

@BESW Because your group is familiar & comfortable with 5e?

Most people don't have the time to learn two systems, or the mental fortitude not to get those two systems mixed up

RPG.SE users are far from representative of a typical TTRPG player

goodguy5

and besides the fact:
If it's already part of a game that's going.

"We've been playing 5e, I want to do this thing in that group"

"learn another system" is a bad answer

SPavel

Imagine if you were a Javascript developer, you asked a question about how to write a function, and someone said "use C#, noob"

goodguy5

basically.

I kind of missing working with Javascript

SPavel

Javascript is like the Wild West

Declaring a variable type? We don't worry about that buddy, here's your pistol and a jug of moonshine, good luck out there

Magician

@SPavel Well. More like, you're a C++ developer and want to make a website.

SPavel

1:12 PM

@Magician If you're a C++ developer, you know better than to make a website

Magician

If you're a D&D player you know better than to run a heist? I mean, kind of true.

kviiri

Sometimes "use jQuery" is the answer the user needs.

3

And besides, learning a second system isn't that difficult, unless that system is also DnD. x)

Magician

As in, I can absolutely imagine D&D players thinking of running a heist, looking at their Bluff score (or whatever 5e uses), imagining how many times they'd have to roll it, with each likely resulting in overall failure of the heist, and giving up.

SPavel

@kviiri Not that difficult for you

goodguy5

@Magician Well, you'd use group checks, for one.

borrow some ideas from fate and make failures = complications

Magician

1:17 PM

@goodguy5 Dangerously close to learning another system, this

goodguy5

Group checks in in the dmg, I think.

kviiri

@SPavel I think a large part of the difficulty for anyone is trying to stick to the idea that there should be one system to rule them all

It would be so convenient, so it's a dream hard to give up

SPavel

@kviiri I don't think most people try to make one system to rule them all, except maybe GURPS

D&D rules them all only because nobody else has the marketing dollars and history

goodguy5

@BESW I find it funny that the contest is 9 pages to tell you how to write one page

kviiri

@SPavel Yeah, but there is a sort of tendency among RPG people to favor DnD as the default anyway. Which is largely because of marketing and tradition, I guess

SPavel

1:19 PM

IMO "heist" is thematically within its purview, see Lies of Locke Lamora and similar

@goodguy5 People write entire books on the art of resume-writing, which by definition is 1 page

The briefer a message is, the harder it is to write it well.

kviiri

Sure, I agree. I guess it partially depends on what one means by heist, but I think it's one of those things DnD isn't particularly poorly suited for.

goodguy5

@SPavel mine is 3

"1 page resume" is a farce

kviiri

There are some potential tricky bits like "how to make vault-opening minigame interesting instead of just roll lock picking to see whether it goes South here".

SPavel

I guarantee you that nobody reads pages 2 and 3

@kviiri Not every heist has a vault

Sometimes the thing you're really trying to steal is the princess's heart

goodguy5

@SPavel that's why my skills-summary is on page 1 and the information about my previous jobs is page 2/3

kviiri

1:21 PM

@SPavel True, but many do, and that could be generalized to a lot of "ok, no heist for me then"-on-fail situations.

SPavel

(literally, to use in a dark and foul ritual)

kviiri

Sort of like a "save-or-die" for plotlines!

SPavel

@kviiri I presume that the "heists in 5e" instructions say "don't do this"

goodguy5

My best guess is that there was a slew of people writing like 5-page resumes, so this stigma got put out in the industry "one page or die"

kviiri

@SPavel I sure hope they do

SPavel

1:23 PM

It's fairly trivial to make it work as long as you realize that locking the plot behind a skill check is bad DMing, and that has less to do with heists than with being a good DM

kviiri

@SPavel Then again, I don't think DMG ever says "don't lock the plot behind a skill check".

Not sure though.

SPavel

"I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle"

Tweeted by DannyDutch on April 8, 2018 at 6:00 PM

goodguy5

@kviiri well, it should

SPavel

Barbarian vs Cleric

@kviiri Doing what the DMG says and being a good DM are two unrelated, and one might say conflicting, courses of action

kviiri

@goodguy5 One of my usual lamentations about DnD 5e is that it focuses too much on telling what the GM could do instead of giving them an idea on what they should do.

SPavel

1:27 PM

@kviiri That would require the designers to put in effort

kviiri

@SPavel I hope there's a burn clinic near Crawford's office.

SPavel

Abdicating responsibility on things like the entire skills system is what 5e is all about

goodguy5

Well, part of the issue is that different people have different methods.

While I'm pretty sure about how a game SHOULD work in a lot of aspects, that won't work for all groups.

And besides, I think that I would be a less good DM if I didn't have to struggle through murky game concepts and figure out that if you make an entire treasure room, hidden behind 3 perception checks, then you don't get to be annoyed if the party doesn't find it.

kviiri

@goodguy5 This is one of those things where the burden of popularity is weighing DnD down. If they make a decision that "this is the kind of game we want to make", it's going to disappoint a non-trivial part of their player base.

goodguy5

@kviiri See, I feel like 5e did a great job of being "the kind of game we want to make"

kviiri

1:35 PM

@goodguy5 Why is it, then, that when I read the book I have absolutely no idea what that game is like?

SPavel

@goodguy5 5e is "the kind of game that we think you want us to make, please dear god why won't you love us"

So was 4e

goodguy5

@kviiri I don't know what you mean.

specifically the "is like" part.

thematically, or mechanically?

or something else?

SPavel

The loudest complainers whined about balance, so they made a balanced game, then the loudest complainers whined that it wasn't D&D so they took 3.5 and made it as rules-light as possible

kviiri

@goodguy5 These two are somewhat intertwined and cannot be fully separated. But just a moment, I'll try to look it up

Well, anyway

doppelgreener

The current trend in RPG design is that games should be built toward certain specific narratives, should explain those narratives, and should provide philosophical guidance and mechanics which make those kinds of narratives naturally emerge. Fate, Blades in the Dark, Apocalypse World, Golden Sky Stories, Cthulhu Dark, and others are participating in that school of game design.

kviiri

1:39 PM

The basic idea being, "your DnD is not my DnD". Our current DnD party is composed of various earlier groups each of whom were playing the same game in very different manners and we occasionally have conflicts caused by that.

doppelgreener

D&D 4e also participated in that school of game design. D&D 5e draws heavily from AD&D 2e and prior, which far predated this trend becoming mainstream, and so it just goes “here's some stuff, you figure out what you want to do with it” -- because not having that was among the major complaints against D&D 4e.

kviiri

One of those conflicts being, how much combat there should be. This is one of those bits that keeps puzzling me.

Because it really seems to me that 5e is a combat game with non-combat frills, but the book also talks about two other "pillars of adventure" - social interaction and exploration - that are supposedly very important but only described rather briefly in the DMG.

SPavel

@kviiri It's D&D, combat is the only conflict resolution engine it has

kviiri

@SPavel Exactly, but the book keeps talking about these other two "pillars" too, so apparently the designers wanted them to feature too. But their treatment is more or less "freeform it with some d20's thrown in".

Sir Cinnamon

Morning folks! Mama eagle is... sticking her tongue out? Eaglewatch continues

kviiri

1:44 PM

They were together in the nest just five or so minutes ago

Exciting times!

SPavel

Oh I forgot about eagle watch

Sir Cinnamon

Noooo!!! why did i have to be late to work

SPavel

closes tabs with work

Sir Cinnamon

I normlly work on a laptop powering two monitors, laptop closed. For eaglewatch I opened up the laptop and its fully dedicated to eaglecam

SPavel

@kviiri The pillars of adventure are conflict and preparing for the next conflict and the designers don't get that

Simon H.

1:46 PM

eaglecam is moderately relaxing.

kviiri

@SPavel 4e designers sort of did

doppelgreener

4e's designers definitely did

Magician

@SPavel It's also somewhat (re)inspired by the OSR style of play, where combat is the failure mode.

SPavel

"Exploration" is not even a thing, except 1) finding the next conflict, and 2) making sure that the staging before the conflict begins is advantageous

4e's designers recognized some of the problem but their solution was butts

Skill challenges did not make anything better

kviiri

@SPavel The thing that bugs me with "exploration" is, usually it boils down to "check everything for loot, take all the loot you can find, and there's no time limit". Except when there is a time limit.

doppelgreener

1:47 PM

D&D 4e was the edition they went “ok, look, this whole game's basically about combat, let's stop pretending otherwise, and just make it really awesome for combat, and fix a whole lot of problems that only existed because of attachments to things that don't matter as much as people getting to feel awesome in combat.”

SPavel

@kviiri Right, in 5e "exploration" is the part in Elder Scrolls games where you scan the cursor over a person's house to see if any of their wooden plates and tin cups are worth more than 1 septim

Sir Cinnamon

the eagle has left the nest

(literally)

doppelgreener

kssht, i repeat, the eagle has left the nest, over

SPavel

aw man I missed it

Simon H.

eagle is back

Sir Cinnamon

1:49 PM

And now Papa Eagle is back

kviiri

@SPavel Yea, and it keeps bugging me. We almost died in CoS because we RP'ed an in-character urgency (where out-of-character, we suspected it wasn't real) and rushed a situation instead of searching every nook and cranny of the place we were in

SPavel

@SirCinnamon How do you distinguish the eagle's gender?

goodguy5

because the non-combat pillars don't require a lot of rules adjudication.

Saturday, I started my game. There are missing townsfolk. "find out why".

The majority of the game was exploring town and talking to villagers. I think combat lasted ... 15 minutes? 25, maybe?

Should there be a more clear blurb on "tips for interacting with NPCs and finding clues and exploring"? yes. But it wouldn't be "rules for interacting with NPCs and finding clues and exploring"

SPavel

@kviiri Roleplaying, in my D&D?

Simon H.

its more likely than you think

free DM check

kviiri

1:51 PM

@goodguy5 Why not?

Sir Cinnamon

@SPavel I cant actually - I think I can tell them apart but in truth i dont know which is the male and which the female. But I've taken to calling one Mama and one Papa

SPavel

Exploring the town and talking to villagers should have a model even if it has no rules

D&D does not have a model

This is, probably, intentional.

kviiri

Yeah, related question: what is talking to NPCs supposed to be like? Because our game has had sessions full of talking to NPCs too, and they've been boring and terrible.

goodguy5

Because of those differences I mentioned earlier. There are different ways to do non-mechanical things. Largely infinitely. So it's hard to make a set of "rules" that cover something subjective.

The only part of the game that lends itself to "rules" are the parts with a heavy mechanical influence.... like combat.

Simon H.

@kviiri that seems to be a common issue...

kviiri

1:54 PM

@goodguy5 Ok, I might disagree with the first thing you said: non-combat thing requires a lot more adjudication from the GM than combat does, because the combat engine is fairly rigid. No need to make snap judgments there.

SPavel

@SimonH. This is because, in the absence of a suggested way to model NPC interaction, the DM has to fall back on whatever writing and acting skills he happens to have, and most people are atrocious writers and actors

goodguy5

@kviiri that's what I was saying

NautArch

Is this primarily opinion-based? I think it can be answered, but not sure.

Simon H.

@SPavel ^^ this

kviiri

@goodguy5 "because the non-combat pillars don't require a lot of rules adjudication." <-- did I misunderstand this then?

SPavel

1:56 PM

D&D provides rules for combat because conflict resolution needs rules, this is good and correct. But its classification of "social" and "exploration" as separate from conflict is used as a mandate to avoid creating rules for them.

Now the DM has no guidance for what constitutes an exploration conflict, and a seasoned band of outdoorsmen gets lost following a highway and ambushed by random animals

goodguy5

No, I just wrote it poorly...

I was trying to signify the difference between "here are the mechanics of how you interact with villagers" (which doesn't make a lot of sense) and "here are ways you can interact with villagers" (which doesn't have a lot of mechanical restrictions)

SPavel

@goodguy5 D&D does not provide "here are the ways you can interact with the villagers."

kviiri

@goodguy5 Why don't "here are the mechanics of how you interact with villagers" make sense? Several games do it, eg. Dungeon World has such.

For example, the Carousing move. When you return from adventuring, you can spend dosh to throw a huge feast, roll the dice and see what sort of adventure the celebration lands you in.

goodguy5

Pavel. Yes. I know. That'd be great.

Kviiri. I'd need to look over Dungeon World. Don't know much about it.

SPavel

@kviiri Meanwhile in D&D you sleep in a ditch while crafting equipment worth more than a small kingdom

kviiri

2:00 PM

@SPavel The ditch is convenient and economincal

Sir Cinnamon

I ordered the dungeon world book and skimmed it - next time DnD has to be cancelled maybe I'll try and do a one shot

SPavel

Actually scratch that, you don't sleep because there are no mechanical penalties for not sleeping

doppelgreener

Assessments of "non-combat interactions with people doesn't need rules, just do some talking and maybe make some rolls" somehow don't also coexist with "combat interactions with enemies doesn't need rules, just describe some sword swishes and some heroic acrobatics and maybe make some rolls".

SPavel

@doppelgreener To be fair, making some rolls is a great way to interact with people, especially if they are cinnamon rolls

doppelgreener

Rules can help create interesting outcomes and tension, and direct us helpfully through scenes in ways the game designers thinks the players would have fun playing.

kviiri

2:02 PM

Now that I mentioned DW, I think it isn't really that great. It does away with DnD's tactical combat system, which I consider charming, but keeps a lot of less interesting stuff.

doppelgreener

Fate and Apocalypse World direct significant weight to social interactions because they're expected to be a significant part of the game worth that focus and those mechanics.

goodguy5

@SPavel aren't there? I thought you got exhaustion or something?

or are you saying that "a long rest doesn't require you to sleep"?

doppelgreener

If you have a significant part of the game but don't direct any mechanical guidance towards it whatsoever... it's not much of an important part of the game.

SPavel

@goodguy5 Even in downtime?

goodguy5

@SPavel I'd have to reread the rules. not sure. But what else are you doing with that other eight hours?

SPavel

2:04 PM

@goodguy5 Whatever is mechanically modeled

Certainly not wasting my gold on carousing

goodguy5

Look. I'm coming off as a fanboy here, I think. I understand that D&D has problems with it's non combat elements. But that's the part I can most easily deal with and shore up.

Fate? I love fate, but I have no idea how to run combat.

SPavel

Maybe rebalancing my investment portfolio, the markets can shift a lot while you're hip-deep in felled demons

kviiri

@goodguy5 I think that's actually a thing of expectations. In my personal games, I think I'd like DnD a lot more if everyone wasn't trying to run it as a non-combat game when it clearly is one (hence the love for 4e)

@SirCinnamon The poor thing looks like it's hot in there :<

doppelgreener

Right, we can shore it up -- but we've picked out this ruleset for a reason. It shouldn't have to be shored up.

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri I was going to say! I didnt know birds could pant - its only 12 C in estonia though

doppelgreener

2:07 PM

It is an industry titan. It clearly has no problems producing tons of content. It would be very helpful for them to design mechanics for this area they claim to be a major pillar of this game, but they leave it to the players to figure out. It really shouldn't be that way.

kviiri

@SirCinnamon Direct sunlight works wonders

SPavel

@doppelgreener That reason is mostly "it's the game that is easiest to find a group for" in a lot of cases

goodguy5

@doppelgreener Find me a ruleset that doesn't have to be shored up somewhere and I'll probably buy it and run it forever.

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 That's not what I'm saying.

SPavel

@goodguy5 The problem is not that 5e needs to be shored up, it's that it needs to be shored up for things it claims to focus on

kviiri

2:08 PM

@SirCinnamon I hope it's not a sign of illness or anything

SPavel

Two of the three pillars of adventure are "wing it"

goodguy5

@SPavel ah, I see.

doppelgreener

I'm not expecting it to be flawless and need zero shoring up. I'm expecting it to have some mechanical support for a couple of areas it claims to be a major part of the game.

goodguy5

okay, sure. I get what you're saying.

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri The other bird was going it too, I imagine they just stll have their winter coat and are quite warm i guess

kviiri

2:08 PM

Yea, most "post-forge" systems have a rather explicit focus.

doppelgreener

D&D 4e solved this by dropping the illusion that those parts were all that important. It was honest and up-front: "this game is about heroic combat. We'll support you in those parts. The rest are up to you."

SPavel

4e said "here, dual-wield the pillars of adventure so you can beat Orcus to death with them"

kviiri

@SPavel /me beats

I want that in my game

goodguy5

I'd have to reread through the DMG and see how they address those pillars.

doppelgreener

Fate requires plenty of thoughtful usage from the players and there's tons it can't do. It's pretty up-front about all of that, and doesn't do things like claim to be an excellent tactical combat engine (something it has almost zero mechanical support for).

SPavel

2:09 PM

@kviiri For sure, defeating gods using non-metaphorical weapons is weaksauce

goodguy5

@doppelgreener I'd love to do a D&D-esque one-shot with fate.

SPavel

When I'm fighting Tiamar, I don't want to be wearing armor, I want to be protected by the Platonic essence of armor

goodguy5

(was "platonic -- plate" an intentional pun?)

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 I'd recommend Masters of Umdaar, which does laser fantasy (like He-Man or Thundercats) and can get kinda correspondingly cheesy (it has laser wolves. they are wolves that have lasers.)

In MoU you play as, basically, action archeologists digging for ancient powerful artifacts for various motives.

SPavel

@goodguy5 No, it's platonic because even though I spend my whole day inside the armor, we are only friends

doppelgreener

2:13 PM

Well, digging, dungeon delving, exploring, climbing, slaying if it happens to come to that.

@doppelgreener neat

Eagle not doing much

Still panting

I love when you get random updoots from old answers, especially on other SEs

kviiri

@goodguy5 It's the best, yep!

I get them almost daily

Sir Cinnamon

2:31 PM

Eagle is moving around

kviiri

"must redecorate"

Sir Cinnamon

I like when they sit facing the cam

kviiri

I wonder when the egg will hatch

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri 25-35 days incubation I think I read - any idea when it was laid?

kviiri

@SirCinnamon Nope :<

The incubation time is weird. English Wikipedia gives the oddly specific 38 days, Finnish Wikipedia says "almost one and a half months".

Sir Cinnamon

2:38 PM

I think the stream has become more stable - Im getting less freezing

goodguy5

38 days isn't even 1 and a quarter months

Sir Cinnamon

noun: eyrie
a large nest of a bird of prey, especially an eagle, typically built high in a tree or on a cliff.

A word I now have an excuse to use

Rubiksmoose

I want it to hatch now!

well not now because I can't watch

goodguy5

Don't care how, I WANT IT NOW

Sir Cinnamon

Good oll Violet Beauregard

Speaking of Violets, i've been rewatching the first season of A Series of Unfortunate Events

Spotting all the VFDs is fun. Its definitely a show that captures the spirit of the source material

SPavel

3:01 PM

Estonia looks so nice and warm

It was 0 degrees here this morning

Sir Cinnamon

It snowed last night here -.-

AGAIN

SPavel

Ew

Snow is fun at the appropriate time and place

But April is not that time

Meanwhile, eagle has rotated slightly

Sir Cinnamon

3:28 PM

@SPavel Judging from the angle of the sun the eagle is now facing roughly north-northwest

Event has been logged with appropriate authorities

kviiri

4:01 PM

Eagle stop staring at the sun

Your retinas will be forfeit

KorvinStarmast

4:17 PM

@nitsua60 now why didn't I think of that? (the income to be generated for a stronghold book?)

GreySage

@SPavel I wish there was a list of highlights of the eagle watch.

Eagle turned again, but I missed it :(

KorvinStarmast

@BESW I think @Shalvenay has a worthy entry for that contest (one page dungeon). We should encourage him to submit it. (the one I have yet to try and run with my group due to RL stuff ....)

Yuuki

... How long has it had its beak open?

Sir Cinnamon

@Yuuki All morning

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Matt Colville has a nice video about that. He holds up the PHB and says very clearly "the book isn't the game."

Yuuki

4:29 PM

@KorvinStarmast The real game was the friends we made along the way?

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast Cause everyone has genuine million-dollar ideas at least once a decade, it's just that few of us follow through on them?

SPavel

@GreySage It would be fairly simple to set up with some ML and a few hundred bucks to throw at crowd computing

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 Yes, and some of us have just over half of a novel on our hard drive and then the mother board gets eaten by the power supply and then it all gets eaten ... happened a decade ago, and here I was an early proponent of "back up everything you do once a week" but that didn't get backed up ... arrrrrrrrgh

The missus is still mad about the pictures and videos that weren't backed up.

Rubiksmoose

Ok I give up. I'm not sure there is any way to break or even make the tortle's shell defense ability better

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki It's as Shakespeare put it: the play's the thing. one of the things that I admire in the efforts at Game Design are those who strive for effective "rules light" games. It is a worthy goal.

Rubiksmoose

4:40 PM

@KorvinStarmast Simplicity is so hard to achieve in a well-done system.

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose Robotic legs so you're not longer prone while using it.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Aye. Also in Engineering Design. ;)

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki hahaha that would be fairly entertaining.

@KorvinStarmast oh gosh yes.

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose Or just have a Tiny Servant carry you around.

KorvinStarmast

We played quite a bit of "settlers of Catan" with my daughter and son in law over easter. Not a lot of rules, but very well put together. As a party game, however, it is limited to 4 people. :(

Yuuki

4:42 PM

@KorvinStarmast Limited to 4 people, so it's actually "Settlers of Quad-tan"?

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast Yeah some of the expansions added more. But also more rules. Catan is not the best party game by far for that reason.

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki grin nice

Rubiksmoose

If you ever get a chance, check out Werewords. Very simple. My group absolutely adores it.

KorvinStarmast

My wife likes us to find good/fun party games to play with the in laws. I'll check it out.

Yuuki

It's like Scrabble but whenever someone uses "M", "N" and two "O"s in one word, you have to scramble the board.

Rubiksmoose

4:43 PM

@Yuuki hahaha

Elevator pitch is that it is a combination of 20 questions and Werewolf (or similar hidden role games). But somehow it manages to be more fun by far than either. I wasn't sold on it, but it was cheap and I kept hearing great things about it from people who share my tastes. Once I got it it almost instantly became our most played game ever. Each game takes only 10-15 minutes.

Yuuki

I'm weird, but I've always preferred cooperative games to competitive games.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Is it anything like bananagrams? That's pretty popular with our family.

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki coop games are fantastic. I wish they made more. Werewords is partially coop btw.

@KorvinStarmast I've not played that, but this game is nothing like Scrabble. It is "guess the word" as opposed to "spell the word using letters".

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose I've played a couple games of Arkham Asylum and we have Pandemic at home, but those are both kinda rules-heavy.

KorvinStarmast

Rubik: Thanks, I'll take a look.

Rubiksmoose

4:56 PM

@Yuuki This one is super rules light. I think I've taught it in 15 minutes, maybe less before.

goodguy5

gem from an answer I found:

As far as how useful mage hand is, without the Arcane Trickster's enhanced version, I prefer to think of it as "mage mitten". If you could do it with heavy winter mittens on, mage hand can probably manage it.

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 My brother saved my cleric's life in our second dungeon in 5e by using mage hand to move a lever that ended up causing a cave in ... right where my character had been standing before my brother's wizard said "step back, I'll move it with my mage hand."

goodguy5

ugh, the old "I have an answer, but don't feel like typing it... also, I'm at work"

@KorvinStarmast perfect

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast "Hold my gear"

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Is that a riff on "hold my beer" in D&D verse?

Simon H.

5:06 PM

Hold my rear

SPavel

Hold my bear

Simon H.

Hold my shear

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast my poor attempt at it yeah lol

goodguy5

Is there a way to make the 5e feat Charger not feel like garbage?

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 Probably, but I have not put enough thought into it to come up with something. I'll check some GiTP discussions and see what people came up with.

goodguy5

5:12 PM

good idea

Simon H.

does it hold the animals tenderly

spider in the eaglecam

I repeat, spider in the eaglecam

Yuuki

Are we 100% sure that's not an alien spacecraft attempting to land?

@goodguy5 The problem with Charger is that it used to be an action in 3.5e so it just feels underpowered.

There's been a couple times in this campaign where I decided I would bull-rush/charge someone only to remember that it wasn't really a thing I could do in 5e.

Sir Cinnamon

@SimonH. Where?

goodguy5

I think one thing to go a long way is to separate out the bonus action attack and the charger benefit.

"if you dash, you can attack as a bonus action"
and
"if you move at least 10 feet directly towards an opponent, your attack(s) deal an extra 5 damage or push the target 10 feet" or whatever.

Zachiel

@SirCinnamon The eaglecam (see the starred posts, on the right)

goodguy5

5:23 PM

The problem is that it becomes a must-take for fighters.... maybe "your first attack"?

Sir Cinnamon

@Zachiel I'm there, I just don't see a spider - must have crawled off

Zachiel

I sort of want to be there when it hatches, but I can't pause my life.

Sir Cinnamon

We need a list of people to alert to special happenings on eaglecam

so we can @ everyone who cares

Zachiel

@SirCinnamon I'm hard to alert unless I'm here. Feature phone and restrictive internet policy at work.

Sir Cinnamon

Thats rough. Maybe we can get a dedicated user to record it

GreySage

5:29 PM

Another 1/8th turn!

Sir Cinnamon

IT SPOTTED THE CAMERA QUICK HIDE

GreySage

Nap time

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 Nothing on a first search for the Charger feat came up as worth suggesting to you.

goodguy5

is that unicorn feed question on topic?

I want it to be because of how absurd it is.

GreySage

@goodguy5 Looks like a question for Biology or WorldBuilding

Although "Whatever a horse of similar size eats" would probably be the answer in either case.

goodguy5

5:35 PM

yea, but how do you find that out.

but yea you're right

Rubiksmoose

If something starts hatching I would absolutely appreciate being bombarded with notifications. Honest to goodness.

goodguy5

@KorvinStarmast sad

Simon H.

the spider was spinning in the middle of the image

it's gone now ;-;

Sir Cinnamon

5:55 PM

Stream is likely about to rapidly get darker

Simon H.

stream won't load for me

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 I will poke around since I know that some 5e homebrew guys frequent that GiTP 5e forum, and some of them have pretty good stuff.

goodguy5

I think the concept has inherent problems.

"using my action to make 1 attack" is pretty consistently a bad trade.

Yuuki

Maybe a Charger attack that crosses more than 10 feet also gives a Strength contest (or Strength vs. Constitution) to knock an enemy prone?

Prone is pretty big stuff though, so maybe overpowered.

GreySage

6:12 PM

@SirCinnamon Night time in estonia?

Sir Cinnamon

@GreySage My favourite anime/guitar hero 3 song

SPavel

The eagle is actually moving around

But it's night so can barely see it

GreySage

@SPavel He got up, shifted around, and just settled back down

goodguy5

yea, my impulse is two benefits
1. If you dash, you can use your bonus action to make an attack
2. If you move more than 10 feet towards an enemy before you attack, gain advantage.

I saw someone arguing that charger was good because it can drop CR 2 enemies in one hit.

"dude. great weapon master, rage, dueling and charger. that's a minimum of 20 damage!"

Yuuki

@goodguy5 So as long as you have a specific fighting style, a particular class feature, and another feat, you can one-shot CR2 enemies. And that's worth a feat.

goodguy5

6:20 PM

@Yuuki "all you need is like 5 levels, and a dedicated build and you can kill any cr 2 creature, just like the wizard can do all the time!"

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 If the feat added advantage that might make it better?

goodguy5

that's part of my suggestion.

Though, on it's own merits, adding advantage AND 5 damage for the special bonus attack would definitely be better

KorvinStarmast

6:56 PM

@goodguy5 that would be worth play testing if this interests you to that depth.

goodguy5

It's one of those things where I want to ask the devs what they were thinking lol

Yuuki

Some people charge to do extra damage, but I personally tend to charge when one of my party members are out of position and I need to be somewhere and provide some kind of defense rather than outright killing. So I'd prefer a knockback or knock-prone feature over advantage on attack rolls.

But that's my personal preference.

goodguy5

@Yuuki advantage on shove

Sir Cinnamon

Answer I wrote on the weekend while procrastination planning my own game becomes my best answer ever

3

This site is a bad influence

Yuuki

@goodguy5 Ah, my bad.

goodguy5

7:10 PM

@SirCinnamon oh, the leveling question? I upvoted that!