« first day (2611 days earlier)   

12:00 AM
hmm. [scribbles notes]
 
Ben
So from lowest to highest I'd say: player choices; taking damage; using cursed items
I'm terrible at being a Gm if only for my complete ignorance of the math.
 
I'm not familiar with 5e so I'm going to get terms wrong.
 
Ben
I'm fine at math; I can do it, and I understand that GMing requires a lot of it to make it all balanced... but I hate math so much! Haha
I was also thinking perhaps as the corruption grows, it's also harder to accrue.
I hope that doesn't put a spanner in your works
 
The hardest thing is getting into a D&D-esque mindset and using its mechanical precedents.
 
Ben
@BESW Perhaps I can assist?
 
12:06 AM
I've got a couple of concepts.
One is to treat each type of corruption as an ability of its own, meaning that it's got a modifier.
 
Ben
@BESW Ok.
I think maybe that was the style I was perhaps going to work with...
 
Like, if you have 14 Madness, you've got a Madness modifier of +3, which you can add to things when you're acting mad and which is added to difficulties when you're trying to stay sane.
 
Ben
But I've been wrong before
@BESW Riiight ok
That's good
 
Another concept is to make a save each time you gain corruption (maybe one roll for each at the end of a scene) and if you fail it then you have to act out a mild form of that particular corruption's theme in your next scene.
But with the idea of making it harder to increase as you have more of it... well, there's a great mechanic for that but it's very much not a D&D mechanic.
Roll over your corruption score or you don't gain more corruption.
Alternately...
Use your corruption modifiers as armor against new corruption.
 
Ben
@BESW Yeah, I was thinking that... Like a DC10 check, then lower that by your "corruption mod"
 
12:10 AM
Say, when there's a roll which would determine if you gain more corruption (like an attack or a save), you add your score in that kind of corruption to your side of the roll.
 
Ben
So if you're at +2 Corruption, it's a DC8
 
That'd mean that actions of your own choice don't get protection from your existing score, but corruption imposed on you by outside forces has to first break through your existing corruption.
 
Ben
On a side note - I was thinking that when affected by one type of corruption, a PC will immediately gain immunity to the others?
Or would you say that would only happen once you pass the first "stage" of corruption?
 
12:26 AM
That depends on the purpose of the corruption in the narrative.
I might just have a generic "corruption" damage type, and the first time it's inflicted on a PC, that character's player gets to decide which kind of corruption it is.
 
Ben
@BESW Aesthetic primarily, but the person with the most corruption at the end of the game will be the one that gets the prize
 
Then all corruption inflicted on that PC is corruption of that particular type.
 
Ben
And I was thinking that Corruption will also give the player a minor boon as well as the deficits
 
Basically, corruption manifests differently depending on who it's infecting.
 
Ben
Right ok
 
12:28 AM
@Ben Again, the "represented as an ability" concept would make that easy.
Perhaps... You can use your corruption modifier in place of an ability modifier for attacks, damage, and [list of skills related to the chosen corruption's theme].
Until the very highest levels of corruption that won't replace their primary stats, but it'll make them more competent in areas related to their corruption.
 
Ben
So, for example bloodlust might add a +1/+2 etc to attack damage?
but a negative to ac?
 
No, it's a voluntary and only beneficial replacement of ability modifiers.
Corruption already has enough drawbacks, what with losing control of your character.
 
12:45 AM
@BESW This might be a good time to whip out your cursed thief example.
 
Ben
Well... I want the corruption system to be for my eyes only. The players will start to see the effects, but they will be unaware of any kind of "corruption" taking hold (other than physical attributes)
For example, necrotic corruption will make the PC look older and harrowed, Bloodlust will probably have the opposite effect, and Madness will actually start to play tricks on the PC
And by extension... the player
 
> ZEHIR'S GREED: a curse on tomb robbers.
- You gain training in Bluff, Stealth, and Thievery. When you use one of these skills, you gain a cumulative +1 bonus to Bluff, Stealth, and Thievery, and a cumulative -1 penalty to all other skills.
- You can use the Greedy Hands encounter power a number of times per encounter equal to the current "stage" of the curse.
- At the end of every extended rest, make a Constitution check. You may choose to fail this check.
-- 20 or lower: The stage of the curse increases by one.
 
that curse lasted a looooong time XD
 
I wouldn't do that particular thing again if I had it to do over, but it's a great example of making corruption a real temptation.
(Greedy Hands was an attack that dealt damage based on the curse's stage, and produced a gem of commensurate value.)
 
1:00 AM
you made it waaaaay tooo tempting
it was hilarious but also sad
 
It was... very much tailored for that particular player.
 
yeah
he fell right into that curse
that was what was a little sad about it, in retrospect
 
And I had no problem with wrecking the party's gold economy in that campaign.
 
at the time it was only hilarious because I was an idiot in hindsight
 
Ben
The idea behind my corruption is that the PCs are effectively walking into the depths of hell. You can't do that without accruing some negative effects
 
1:04 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: Are the cleric and druid spell lists separate for purely thematic reasons, or due to other balancing factors in the class designs? by Debbie Kladke on rpg.SE
 
@Ben Then maybe a simpler mechanic would be better?
What about an escalation die?
 
Ben
Go on?
 
In 13th Age, you put out a d6 on the table at the start of a conflict, with the 1 facing up. Each round you advance it by one. Some abilities can change it, too. PCs get a bonus to their attacks equal to the current face of the die, and some abilities key off it.
How about expanding that out into an "effects of hell" escalation die? Say, a d10. Start at 1. Actions that are hellish get to add the number, actions that are heavenly have it subtracted.
Advance the die as seems appropriate--each session, each scene, each time the party makes particular kinds of choices, whatever.
 
Ben
OK
 
The deeper you go into hell, the easier it is to be hellish and the harder it is to be heavenly. Bam.
Adjust the size of the die and the speed of the escalation according to your own vision of the game.
Maybe include the potential to reduce the escalation through certain actions as well.
 
Ben
1:13 AM
Honestly I think I might be missing something - because this just seems like another wway to do the same thing
 
It's simpler.
You've got this massively complex bookkeeping going on which the players aren't actually engaging with because you want it to be a secret.
That means it's effort without effect.
I thought it was player-facing when I was coming up with ideas for you, but as a GM-facing system it's just needless work.
 
Ben
Ok so its a simpler way to do the same thing?
 
For a fraction of the effort you can get roughly the same effect on the player experience with something like an escalation die.
 
Ben
Ok.
I'm grasping the idea of it, but unfortunately I have issues understanding things without some kind of experience/analogy
So, my understanding of the system is:
Player accrues corruption - I use the "escalation die" to track this.
Once it reaches a certain point (5, 10, whatever), "things" start happening that affect the player.
 
Ben
1:32 AM
Is that accurate?
 
Not quite my vision of it, but if it works for you that's what's important.
I think there are elements of the concept you're attached to that I don't understand, or don't value.
Like, if the narrative of the concept is that going deeper into Hell causes negative effects, I'm not sure there's any real gain in tracking those effects separately for each PC. Why not have a kind of global "hell influence" meter?
That is, one escalation die for the whole party.
But then you said something about "the person with the most corruption at the end of the game will be the one that gets the prize," which indicates there's some element of the story I don't know about.
 
Ben
I need the individual counters because that determines who gets the prize at the end of the game. Only one can win...
[Spoiler alert... the prize isn't actually a good thing]
But it is plot-relevant
The different kinds of corruption just add flavour to the game
 
2:11 AM
....How about a Cthulhu Dark style corruption die?
 
Ben
I have not played Cthulhu Dark
 
Your corruption starts at one. Add it to hellish actions, subtract it from heavenly actions. Every time you might gain corruption, roll 1d6. Gain 1 corruption if the result is over your current corruption score.
Each PC has their own score.
It's not very D&D-esque, but since it's not player-facing that's not super important.
That also bakes in your "corruption slows down as it gets further along" goal.
 
Ben
That can work
 
If you want the numbers to go higher, either switch out the die or set aside the first 6 and start again.
But in my experience, it takes a couple hours of rolling pretty regularly to hit 6 in this system. So if you're only rolling a handful of times each session... should last a few sessions.
(And since you're not showing the players your work, you can always fudge it partway through.)
 
Ben
Mmm.... fudge
I think that'd be the easiest way to manage it'
 
2:39 AM
Gemini: Your conspiracy theories will gain new attention when giant mutant sewer wombats are discovered beneath Cincinnati.
 
2:53 AM
lol
fantastic news
then my conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with that will gain new attention when that happens too right?
 
3:25 AM
@BESW ...wat
 
3:48 AM
any poor unfortunate souls in here wanna read a boring 3 page character backstory? I want to make sure it's readable / understandable before I send it to my GM
 
@BESW I thought that went without saying. (Your conspiracy theories will gain new attention when giant mutant sewer wombats are discovered beneath Cincinnati.)
@Asteria I'll be happy to. Where is it?
@Asteria Would you like suggestions or edits?
 
@KorvinStarmast thank you for being an unfortunate victim. I've just done it in a google doc.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AO3WML9uFBPxhCZhPrnIHqyqyWO311spdTPlP7gdZa8/edit?usp=sharing
Suggestions would be good, I'm trying to build her a certain way but I don't know if my intent is getting across
 
OK, I'll take a look. :)
 
the first two pages are just GM stuff though, so you can skip that. thanks in advance <3
 
4:04 AM
I am not sure how failed politician who ran through money is still wealthy for the later part of the story ... somehow seems a mismatch. (I understand the theme, though, of Kristov's constant efforts "back into the inner circle?" that was why he used her so ...)
 
ah yeah, this is why I wanted it checked :P he's built his wealth back up using the flesh he sold and later on, selling the secrets she found and stuff. I'll have another go at conveying it though. thanks!
 
OK, he deals in secrets and blackmail. Maybe make that a little clearer? And yeah, it fits well.
Interesting and dark. Which game?
 
Blades in the dark
 
Hmm, when she was 16, no longer tender flesh, "10 years" to put the plan together but she takes him out at age 22. Math error, or missing something about when her debut at the parties happened... at 12?
 
woop, math error. numbers are hard
 
4:11 AM
no worries, this is why we get a second set of eyes.
playing with the dead before him.
near the end
I think you meant "playing with the dead body before him" in that sentence?
Maybe that murder was for a longer sentence (described as very horrific) so maybe "after 5 years she made her escape ...." fits with her growing in talent/power?
 
I diiiid, but I've changed it to "relishing in the brutality he wrought" instead
 
Based on the back story, I'd say her deception, charm, and persuasion would be put to work for 5 years to set up a jail break/escape. Based on how you built the narrative.
Just an idea, unless "you've served your sentence, off you go" is part of how the game story begins
 
ah, the setting for the game is "Due to the mass of crimes that year, every criminal was sentenced to 5 years in the most brutal prison, regardless of crime"
The PC's are approached after being let out about getting their "revenge"
 
Oh, cool, then never mind. Fits well then.
 
One of the players said his PC is going to jail for 5 years for littering, so it's interesting
 
4:15 AM
jeez that is even darker than I thought blades in the dark,.... was
 
One of the players said his PC is going to jail for 5 years for littering That's what Arlo Guthrie told the murderers in "Alice's Restaurant." 8^D
 
@trogdor I always play good, nice characters (and my group is used to me playing nice), so this time I'm trying to go waaaay dark
 
everything together, not just the litering and getting 5 years for it
 
Top to bottom, I think it flows well enough. Best wishes with the game.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing peoples face when my PC pretends to be nice the whole time ends up staby stabing
 
4:17 AM
Muahahahahaha!
 
@Asteria fair enough, I played exactly one campaign as an evil character, and even then he refused to personally kill unarmed civilians
he didn't Stop the other PC but I still didn't have any inclination to go that way with it
 
Night to all, have to fix stuff in the morning before the grand turkey debacle ...
 
thanks for the feedback @KorvinStarmast , I can definitely see room for improvement now that you've pointed it out
 
XD
 
sleep wellll
@trogdor my PC would stab someone in a heart beat if she could gain from it...though, no children. she has daddy issues :p
 
4:19 AM
yeah that is too far, is it because the setting is really dark or just because you wanted to try this?
because maybe I should re-consider wanting to try Blades in the Dark if it is the first one
 
a bit of both, we're playing assassins so I could have gone noble and stuff. But i've always wanted to try dark
 
that is fair
I have not tried since that one time, but I don't know that a,.... morally deficient character is my style at all
it could be that I just don't give it any chances though
oh! yeah Great Ork Gods yeah nevermind
 
mhm, same. I'm not sure how I'll go playing her, but it can't hurt to try
xD
 
I forgot, all my Orks were horrible horrible monsters
so maybe the setting and the group's mood and inclination has more to do with it for me
 
@trogdor I'm not sure it counts as a morally deficient character when you're playing a game where morals don't enter into it at all.
 
4:24 AM
@Miniman but, like,... I think it probably does?
it was still me playing those orks
that was the thought process
if you want to make it about "in comparison to everyone else playing" then yeah there is nothing to say XD
if an ork is not a horrible person in that game, the other orks will kill them
it's actually incouraged
even rewarded XD
 
in comparison to the other PC's, at least mine pretends to be nice...
 
if you kill another ork you get oog and all orks want oog
@Asteria always important, how else can you stab them in the back later?
 
@trogdor exactly!
 
@Miniman Stories always reflect on reality; Thermian defenses about internal morality don't really hold together very well against out-of-story arguments.
 
I figured
I think I might know what it is for me actually
in Great Ork Gods I don't care about the ork
 
4:33 AM
oh?
 
the ork can be horrible and also die horribly
and then I make another one and I don't care about the ork
 
GOG Orks are designed narratively to be acceptable targets, and mechanically to have no sunk costs and be imminently replaceable.
 
I think in most other games I care about the character too much to let them be a horribly mal-adjusted person
 
@BESW I'm not trying to say his ork was actually a fine upstanding citizen. Just that, from the POV of whether he's tried playing a morally deficient character, it might not really count. Like, if I say I've tried Fate, that's technically true. But I haven't really had the Fate experience, or faced the challenges of playing a Fate game, and so on.
I wouldn't say that I've really tried Fate, even though I have played it.
 
@Miniman ah I think I understand what you mean
it compares well to the thought I just had above ^
in any case, that is the theory
 
4:37 AM
@trogdor Yeah, it's not really something I'd thought about before now. But while I've played some characters who were real monsters, it's never been in a context where that...I dunno, meant anything, I guess?
 
because other than Great Ork Gods I can't think of any time other than that one 3.5 evil campaign we had where I played an evil character
@Miniman I do think it matters to an extent for our thought processes on it at least
 

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