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12:00 AM
keeping with the theme though -- the adventure started off as "where'd the tax collector go?" and turned into what is intended to be the opening scene of a campaign, with the party sent on a quest for a day in court, papers in hand :>
(and also meeting the head of the coven, an elven arachnaur :> as it's a coven of fey witches patronizing the fey spirit of spiders :>)
 
a coven of fey spider witches in a modernized castle harboring a rogue tax collector?
did I get that right?
 
@SimonH. more like a young tax collector who has more stubborn in him than legal-beagle chops ;)
(and was given a dump of a job to begin with, because he got rubbish paperwork from his superiors)
 
@Shalvenay y'know what, you seem pretty good at this stuff. could I ask your advice on a campaign of mine?
 
(which plays into why the coven wants a day in court -- something's rotten in the capital...)
@SimonH. ask away :)
 
apropos of nothing, from my planning notes for an upcoming campaign: "Ultimate evil plan: blow up world with antimatter? why?"
 
12:08 AM
alright. so I have this campaign where dwarves are going to war with half-orcs for taking their mountain fortress. the players decided not to side with either of them (wisely, honestly) and they are now in the half-orc capital.
I'm trying to think of ways to continue from here because the players clearly don't like other group and they're just going along with it for perceived benefits.
I just don't know where to go from there.
 
@SimonH. are they more interested in getting both sides to the peace table, or watching the world burn?
 
@Shalvenay they don't care about peace.
 
@SimonH. this sounds like a grand opportunity for them to pull a false flag op and watch the sparks fly, then
 
@Shalvenay what do you mean by that?
 
@SimonH. pull off something nasty and frame the dwarves for it
 
12:13 AM
@Shalvenay should I introduce an NPC to suggest it to them or should I have a side show a weakness they can exploit? I don't want to feel like I'm railroading them
 
@SimonH. I'd start with having some chinks show up in the armor, and then if that's not a strong enough cue, then a NPC can step in
 
@Rubiksmoose Blowing up the world with antimatter is a reason unto itself :P
 
(ok brb)
(ok b)
I'm gonna try giving them multiple (small) options like rumors of military operations near dwarven territory and then try to have a double agent convince them
 
@SimonH. xD I think that could work
 
@Miniman Now that is thinking like a true supervillain!
 
12:23 AM
what is it with you guys and antimatter bombs
you need sci-fi for that x.x
 
@SimonH. (superhero campaign lol)
 
wait, are the players trying that or the DM?
 
Potentially that is going to be my main super villain's goal. Still in early planning stages though.
I mean the players potentially could though. One of them is made out of antimatter (hence the subplot here)
 
gotta have a lex luthor-style slideshow presentation about it
 
Gotta be a TED talk
LEX Talk
 
12:29 AM
"and here, ladies and gentlemen, is where the slums of our once-great civilization lie"
"all it would take - one simple bomb and they'll be out of our hair forever."
 
oh dear. That does sound like a super villain. Should I be worried about you?
 
only if I'm on the same continent ;)
 
12:44 AM
I didn't mean to scare you guys away, come baaaack ;-;
 
nah, just had to eat dinner.
 
eh, I'm eating too
probably why I'm not done yet...
 
1:40 AM
WOODPECKERS HAVE THICK, SPONGY SKULLS THAT ABSORB IMPACT, A MODIFIED HYOID BONE THAT WRAPS AROUND THE SKULL LIKE A HARNESS, & A THIRD EYELID THAT PROTECTS THEIR EYES. ALL WHICH IS NEEDED WHEN YOU BANG YOUR HEAD INTO TREES AT 15MPH, 10,000 A DAY. #SHOUTYSCICOMM https://t.co/aKQn9NxaCS
(click through to see gif)
100% more metal than the eagle cam
 
1:52 AM
#SHOUTYSCICOMM is amusing.
 
Is that just a tag for all caps science stuff?
 
2:07 AM
With a bend toward the hardcore awesome science bits, yes.
 
Ah
 
bats shout at their food
just felt like pointing that out
 
Lol
I should start shouting at my food
Might make me as cool as bats
 
maybe they'll grow sonar-blocking genitals too
that would be 10/10
fun fact: schrodinger was a serial animal abuser.
 
2:27 AM
@KorvinStarmast That's an inclusive "or," right?
=D
 
I want an RPG where you get to play as a cat who takes over the world by manipulating humans in weird and convoluted ways
call it "toxoplasma: the board game" or something
you could have stats for cuteness
if you roll high enough, they have to do what you want them to do
but if you fail, you could get in trouble and lose trust
so its a gamble
 
2:44 AM
@SimonH. LOL
 
@Shalvenay seriously though!
you could have different types of cats that do different things like combat, manipulation, distraction, and so on
 
@SimonH. Well, there's Call of Catthulhu, and The Secrets of Cats.
 
@BESW NO WAYYY
> catthulhu
 
The Secrets of Cats is one of Evil Hat's earliest pay-what-you-want Worlds of Adventure for Fate.
 
@BESW oh, no kidding! what do you think of it?
 
2:51 AM
I haven't played it yet, but I've used some of the mechanics in another game.
Overall it's maybe a little overcomplex for my tastes, but my tastes are running very minimal lately. It's got a solid concept and executes it well. The mechanics look to all reinforce an interesting playstyle.
 
@BESW so it's compatible with fate core only?
not accelerated?
 
It's designed with Fate Core as the original chassis, yes. But Accelerated and Core are, in most ways, the same game.
 
They might have cut it to fit accelerated by now
And if not yeah it could probably be switched easily
 
that's good, because I heard core was more complicated. accelerated seems more interesting to me
 
The biggest difference is that Accelerated uses approaches instead of skills, and since Secrets of Cats uses skills and skill ranks as a primary method of mechanizing magic, that would be difficult to translate into Accelerated without re-writing the magic system completely.
Eh. The Core book has a LOT more pages than Accelerated, but that's mostly because it talks a lot about the how and why of the game (which applies to Accelerated too), making it easier to adjudicate and modify to your group's needs.
Neither Core nor Accelerated are anywhere near as complex as, say, D&D or Call of Cthulhu.
 
2:57 AM
noted. I'm not sure about a cat RPG with magic, though. not particularly believable.
 
The Accelerated book is a slim volume that gives you just enough to start playing, while the Core book is more of a full manual explaining the guts of the system rather than just how to start playing.
@SimonH. [grin] Cats leave half-eaten dead animals in your house because those are sacrifices which fuel protective rituals keeping evil out of the area.
Cats get stuck in trees because they learned how to walk invisible platforms... but they can't get back down while humans are looking because that'd give it away.
 
@BESW okay, teamwork is pretty cool, but if they're just fuzzy versions of other fantasy tropes then it's barely a change in the first place
if all it does is reskin everything to cats then that's not work the time. you could just play D&D and pretend everyone's a cat
 
D&D doesn't really do a lot with animal sacrifice as a basic spellcasting tool.
Nor does it frame stories as the group defending their enormous lumbering humans (called "burdens") from various threats both mundane and supernatural, while trying to avoid the censure of the Parliament of Cats.
[shrug] You'll have to read the game to decide.
 
I meant that your example was interesting. is that a part of secrets of cats?
 
What example?
 
3:03 AM
@BESW auguries are the only ones I can think of. And that's just being lazy and grabbing historical anecdote rather than figuring out how magic actually works in their own world.
 
@BESW the animal sacrifice example.
 
Ah.
> Our most potent magics must be fueled by blood sacrifice. To lengthen and empower our spells, we will kill a small animal like a bird, mouse, frog, or rat and pour its life force into our spells. [Secrets of Cats 7]
> By sacrificing a small animal and leaving its corpse as an offering to Death, you raise a powerful magical barrier around a place. Left untampered, this ward lasts until the sacrificial offering is nothing but bones, but humans tend to remove them long before that stage. To prevent interference, you may need to find ingenious hiding places for your offerings. The corpse must be fresh when you create the ward—one sleep old or less—but it doesn’t have to be complete; you might like to bite the head and front parts off for a tasty snack before you get to work.
 
that's a lot deeper an explanation than I expected. thanks, man.
 
Like I said, read the book. It's free.
If you're worried about a game that's just re-skins of existing tropes, Call of Catthulhu's much more of a sinner there because its setting and story is basically "What if the Investigators in a Call of Cthulhu or Trail of Cthulhu game were cats, and all the Mythos stuff was cat puns?"
 
alright, I'm looking into it now.
 
3:11 AM
(Though, it does allow for influencing human thoughts with the basic Challenge mechanic, so in that it's a better fit for your original speculation.)
 
I haven't read the core or accelerated yet because I only read full books I have copies of
 
@BESW Cattacus Finch?
 
> Humans have very large and agile minds, capable of solving intricate problems and grasping great ideas. However, these minds are unwieldy and not well defended. Humans live in ways out of touch with their own ancestral Ape God, Kong, and an animal with a stronger spiritual connection can influence a human’s thoughts.
[Call of Catthulhu 18]
 
I know it's kind of pointless but that's me
 
Mew-Go instead of Mi-Go, Hastpurr of Catcosa instead of Hastur of Carcosa, Doggone instead of Dagon, The Catnip Out of Space instead of the Color out of Space, etc.
 
3:14 AM
Lol
 
It's very much a humor game.
 
3:43 AM
Fish time for the eagles!
 
4:17 AM
Is this question an X-Y problem? I think it is but I may be making some assumptions ...
 
We have a policy against swearing right?
If so, any place I can reference that?
 
Is it in be nice
 
search term on the meta might be profanity
 
@KorvinStarmast bingo
 
4:19 AM
20
Q: Is profanity allowed on RPG.SE?

Chuck DeeThere have been questions in relation to language used, and offenses given in word choice- but what about outright profanity? Though (I think) most here are adults, that's not necessarily a given, and I've always viewed profanity for it's sake to be the recourse of a limited vocabulary rather th...

Cheers, and good night. :)
 
Thanks and you too.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:58 AM
I need a Grovel-bot in a campaign.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:18 AM
> I think "realism" is often used by authors and readers as a way to say "my most cherished biases." - Jaycee Jarvis
 
7:34 AM
Ugh, I've skimmed over 4e PHBs and I remember another reason why I didn't like this back in the day... there's too much choice.
I like classes for distinction, and some of that value is lost when they become overtly specific.
I think PHB 3 is the worst offender here, because of the psionic classes. Monk is fine to me, and I think the Psionic power system sounds like a cool twist on the powers, but I dislike what I perceive as "filling all the boxes" with the introduction of psionic classes for every role.
 
7:56 AM
Hi, can anyone link me to any guidance / etiquette on selecting an answer to a question that's provoked a wide range of responses, a number of which have merit? Should I just pick my overall favourite, then comment what I liked about other answers, that my preferred answer didn't cover?
 
@Tiggerous I know the situation, it's sometimes really hard to pick just one. The site etiquette doesn't, in formal or informal terms, exactly expect "why I accepted this and not that" -comments, but if you feel the need to leave one, it doesn't exactly hurt.
 
@Tiggerous You should pick the one that helped you the most with your problem. the voting is supposed to express the opinion of the community, not accepting.
(It is written down somewhere, but I'm too lazy to unearth it. Maybe in the help center?)
 
Yeah, pick the one that works for you.
 
@kviiri @Szega Thank you both, those are helpful clarifications.
 
And there's no expectation of picking any, even if they're good, if they haven't solved your problem.
I once accepted an answer that looked like it'd fix my problem, but then I tried it and it didn't help at all! So I had to go back and un-accept it.
 
8:06 AM
@BESW Thanks for those thoughts. I think the problem probably has been solved by the collective answers, but all of the answers indiviudally are partial answers, hence my indecision.
 
Ah, makes sense.
....You might consider self-answering with the combination solution that worked. I like reading those, when they detail what was done and what the effect was and why the effect was satisfactory.
 
Hmm, I'll think about that. I feel like it's generally poor etiquette round here to just take other people's answers and expand upon them, but maybe it's not so bad if it's me as the original asker that does that.
 
Aye, it's the personal experience angle that really makes an answer shine out.
That experience is what makes it yours, rather than just polishing up someone else's.
(It's also what makes an answer super extra useful to everyone else, because they can see the process and result rather than just speculation.)
 
Thanks for the advice. I may need to leave this question open for a while if I do that. I'm in the early stages of homebrewing my new campaign, but we're still a few sessions off finishing the last one and only play twice a month.
 
Makes sense!
Like I said, there's no pressure to ever accept an answer. If you want to recognize an exceptional answer without accepting it (beyond just an upvote), you can bounty it.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:23 AM
@BESW hehehe
 
9:42 AM
@Rubiksmoose In that RPGSE meta I also just dropped a few links to meta.SE guidance on the topic, too.
 
I'm making macaroni casserole today and our store has some funky pricing policies.
(or possibly the supplier)
A 1kg bag of macaroni costs twice as much per kilo than a 400g bag. I've heard of bulk discounts, and occasionally rounding errors result in "bulk tax", but... twice as expensive when bought in large quantities? Come on.
 
10:10 AM
wahat?
that doesn't make any sense
it's the same stuff right?
 
Yep
 
well you need to teach em to stop that by buying all the cheaper ones and leaving the rest to rot there :P
honestly though like,... if it's because they have different suppliers,... I don't understand why they don't,... maybe consolidate the prices
make the cheaper one a bit more expensive and cut the price a little on the more expensive one
unless they just figure once the cheaper one runs out people have no choice in the matter
but what do I know anyway
 
I did some searching, apparently it's mainly because 1) the 400g bags are used as a loss leader and 2) the 400g bag is more popular
For 2, gee I wonder why.
 
oooooh
 
I would totally buy the 1kg bag if it wasn't twice as expensive.
 
10:17 AM
no yeah wait
if they are keeping track of that, but only with the price like that,.... it's kinda tainted info isn't it?
I still do not understand
 
Yep, me neither
It's stupid :<
I would love to have bulk discounts on my carbs
 
that would be great
macaroni is my favorite too
with cheese but still
 
Macaroni casserole is quite similar. I feel like such an adult when I'm making it because it's easy to bake in bulk
"Meal planning yay"
 
Lol
I have had some macaroni casseroles
They are definitely the best kind of casseroles
In my personal opinion
 
I usually throw in a diced bell pepper for color. :)
 
10:30 AM
Bell peppers are nice.
I've been making fried fish with onions and mushrooms and bell peppers every Friday for a while now.
 
I like bell pepper,... But my parents make em in ways I don't like
It took me some time to even realize I did like bell pepper
 
10:47 AM
Ah, my parents (and everyone else) did that with beetroot.
Pickled beetroot ruined beetroot for me until my parents started experimenting with baked beetroot too.
 
11:12 AM
Hmm
For the bell peppers the usual problem was either overcooking, or getting a hold of really waxy ones
 
Yeah, I like to saute them in olive oil with apple cider vinegar.
 
I put red bell peppers in my casseroles pretty much for cosmetic purposes only. They taste good too, but the original reason why I started adding it is that the food just looks a lot more appealing if it's isn't just a vague mix of yellowish gray and brown lumps :)
The casserole is in the oven, krrsshs. I repeat, the casserole is in the oven.
To speak a bit on-topic, we were discussing ideas for a future 4e campaign. Currently one seems rather appealing to me. The basic idea is a game of "conquest" in a sense: the region is overtaken by a malicious force that has driven the good guys on the defensive. The players reclaim areas of the region by completing quests and at the same time unlock utilities of strategic value.
Eg. helping out an alchemist restore her supply chain would give the players the ability to buy potions, and seizing control of the thieves' guild would allow them to fence magic items.
 
11:31 AM
@kviiri Sounds cool, though for a more Points of Light feel I'd say it shouldn't be about "reclaiming" territory but rather reaching out to establish new points of light.
Although I suppose it could be about trying to keep one of the points of light from going out entirely. That could be interesting.
 
@BESW I'm not too good about the setting but that's certainly an option
 
....if I were going to do it, then in the interests of avoiding D&D's habitual manslaughter themes I'd probably invoke a Vermin Lord.
 
What's that?
 
@kviiri Basically, the major theme of the setting is that the world is a wild and dangerous place. Civilizations occasionally rise up but rarely last more than a few generations. At the "present time" in the setting only a scattering of isolated communities are "points of light" in the untamed darkness.
@kviiri A Vermin Lord is something I came up with some time ago to try and avoid the thoughtless slaughter of sapients while still being able to run a campaign with a clever, confrontable villain.
There's a god of vermin. It's powerful but diffuse, because vermin are numerous but not very worship-oriented.
But on the few occasions when a sapient creature becomes a priest of the vermin god, all the power of the world's vermin can be focused through a single consciousness.
 
My current sketch for the excuse plot is that the party approaches an island that hasn't been responding to communications in months. A strange entity boards their ship and tries to control it, but accidentally capsizes the ship. The players land on the island to learn that this entity is a malevolent interdimensional terror that has started spawning all sorts of evil things trying to conquer the world.
 
11:38 AM
That priest becomes a Vermin Lord, not quite an avatar of the vermin god but certainly a force to be reckoned with--and he has all the vermin of the region as his army to command, to mutate, to send forth and overrun.
 
Thankfully, the people on the island aborted that plan by scuttling all their ships... but now the malevolent entity is desperately trying to force them to build one for it. (yep, it's a minor god that lacks the ability to fly, swim or breathe underwater)
 
So the party gets to fight a lot of different kinds of enemies --swarms of ants, giant three-headed fire-breath rats, gangs of centipedes, dens of spiders, etc-- without ruthlessly slaughtering sapient creatures for pocket lint.
 
That sounds cool
 
But they're also facing a coherent intelligent force behind all the mindless vermin, which can be confronted and reasoned with or killed as they choose.
And the Vermin Lord's identity can be tailored to the kind of campaign you're running: is it someone they know and trust, or someone they've made an enemy of in the past, or someone who's being manipulated for an even larger purpose...?
 
Spyro the Dragon had a weird little twist in why killing enemies yields treasure - the enemies... were treasure, turned into enemies by the bad guy.
 
11:42 AM
Cute.
The first time I ran a Vermin Lord campaign, it was a twosies game in 3.5 with a player who made a half-dragon minotaur. His backstory was that the dragon was Lawful Good, minotaurs are usually Chaotic Evil; he was Chaotic Good, his twin sister was Lawful Evil, she kicked him out of the minotaur tribe and took it over.
Naturally, the conclusion of the campaign revealed that his sister had become a Vermin Lord in order to consolidate her power over the tribe.
@kviiri "Stuck on an island" is a great way to narrow a game's scope to something more manageable! I've done it a few times.
And "don't leave or the evil will come with" is a nifty way to enforce the sandbox.
 
@BESW "No boats" works too ;) (until they learn powerful teleportation majicks...)
 
Well, yes.
....depending on your level, you could have fun with the Feywild and Shadowfell versions of the island.
 
oo, that's true
 
They're both sideways dimensions, planes just a little offset from the Material World. The Feywild is riotous growth, unchecked wilderness. The Shadowfell is crumbling ruin, a dying place.
 
Morning, nerds
 
11:49 AM
I like them both thematically.
 
My personal headcanon is that they're (loosely) projections of the Material World's past and future, respectively.
The Feywild is prehistoric, the Shadowfell is post-apocalyptic.
 
In one short DnD game I ran, there was a portal to Feywild on a particularly beautiful hill overlooking the ocean, near a ruined castle. To enter Feywild, one has to watch the sunset there. If done correctly, the sun freezes into place instead of setting further, at which point turning around reveals the ruin to actually be a beautiful elvish palace in Feywild.
 
Yeah, I really like how 4e blurred the lines between the planes and said "you can learn rituals if you want to have more control, but often moving to another plane is just as easy as turning sideways."
Opens up a lot more freedom for players and GMs alike, and makes the world feel more legitimately mystical.
 
@kviiri That's so I nice I might steal it. :) You ok with that?
 
@Szega Absolutely!
@BESW I also like playing up both the good and bad sides of Feywild and Shadowfell. Feywild may be the place of stupendous beauty where the trees themselves dance to the tunes of legendary trubadours, but it's also a place of raw emotion and terrible retribution. Untamed, in a sense.
 
11:56 AM
Very much so.
 
While Shadowfell, for contrast, associates not only with sadness and darkness but also the virtues of seriousness
 
Contrary to what A Series of Unfortunate Events would like us to believe, memento mori is not supposed to be depressing or oppressive.
 
who was I talking to yesterday and they mentioned dungeon world's roleplay incentive?
The bonds thing is pretty cool
 
I think it'd be cool to frame the Shadowfell as a comforting, snuggly darkness which reunites people with those who have gone before... except for the bits where people are trying to enforce an uglier narrative.
 
@goodguy5 Yea, bonds are cool
I think discussing such relationships at character creation is very important.
 
12:11 PM
My favorite versions of Fate include relationship aspects.
 
need a nearby banana
 
One of our DnD games started with everyone declaring their backstories. Each GM picked a player their campaign part would focus on. That didn't work quite so well..
later, we switched to the format where instead every PC would have a special bond with as many PCs as possible, and that worked way better.
 
I would have probably tried to do a little more session-0 backgrounds stuff Saturday if we hadn't had to spend the first 2 hours or so doing chargen
I feel like I'm at the point where I can more-or-less make a character in about 10 minutes
 
12:42 PM
@goodguy5 I don't think i'm at that point :)
 
Morning, eagle staring experts
 
@NautArch The longest part is writing down equipment lol.
 
@goodguy5 Do you use point buy or roll stats?
 
point buy. I dislike rolled stats. especially when it's an option (vs a mandate).

No one should use rolled stats or everyone should be on board with it.
 
@goodguy5 After having made my first point buy character for @nitsua60's ToA campaign, I do like the evenness and not overpowered feeling of them.
but I also like rolling stats and having more powerful characters.
 
12:45 PM
I don't really see any advantage in rolling
 
@NautArch Do you like rolling stats and having less powerful characters?
 
...I like rolling for Hate. Does that count?
 
@BESW For each of the gods?
 
@BESW Mmm, you are making me hungry. My wife is of a like mind regarding fish, though we tend to grill/broil the fish with those same ingredients. salivates slightly
 
@Anaphory Yeah. Randomizing is more fun when the stakes are lower.
 
12:48 PM
@SPavel hasn't happened yet :) Would need some seriously bad luck with our dice rolling mechanic of 7x4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest die and lowest overall roll.
 
@NautArch So just do point buy with more points
 
@NautArch oh... that's hardly rolling
that's just fishing for 18s lol
 
@goodguy5 Um, pretty sure the dice leave our hands and hit the table :)
 
@BESW And lemon, don't forget lemon
 
@SPavel I marinate the fish in lemon and soy sauce.
Add some pepper in the pan.
Sprinkle some ginger salabat powder on it.
 
12:50 PM
Eagle is snacking
You made him hungry
@BESW Nice
Lightly breaded?
 
No, just marinated sashimi-cut tuna, sauted/fried in a cast-iron pan with a little olive oil and chopped up with the spatula as I cook it.
 
I like a little breading, flour or corn starch
Makes a nice crust
 
@NautArch less the verb "rolling for stats" and more the concept "rolling for stats".
 
Then I add in the onions and cook 'em for a while, then the mushrooms and put the lid on to steam 'em, then the bell peppers and toss it while cooking.
 
also, what's the average for that (7X4d6v1)
 
12:53 PM
If I've got kale, I put that on top at the end with a splash of water and put the lid on again.
 
@goodguy5 Maybe "rolling for heroic stats" would be better.
 
Nice, usually I just throw stuff in the pan as I wash/chop it
Brussels sprouts in a bit of soy sauce/maple syrup glaze
Asparagus, boiled sliced potato
 
@NautArch makes enough sense.
 
Bit of lemon
All-purpose side to any dish
Eagle is windy
 
@NautArch My nephew has a great roll dice scheme for his campaign. If the total skill modifier bonuses are three or less, re roll. If the total bonuses are 10 or more, either re roll or work with DM to reduce scores so that the total bonuses are 9.
 
1:03 PM
@KorvinStarmast what's the initial roll?
 
@NautArch 4d6 drop 1.
six times
Arrange to suit, per PHB.
Our other DM has a simpler deal: if none of the rolls offer a raw 16, we can either keep the rolls or re roll, depending on if we are happy with it.
 
@KorvinStarmast That's very similar to 4e's "if you want to roll" guidelines.
 
My tier three campaign was simply "roll, that is what you get." So I did.
Lucky me ended up with a 17 and some other OK stats. So I made a Half Orc Champion.
 
4d6-drop-one six times, assign as you like, and the GM will step in if the sum of your modifiers is under +4 or over +8.
Yeah, the very first D&D game I played in as a character rather than a GM, I rolled two 18s and pretty much garbage for everything else.
 
@NautArch I think I explained my nephew's scheme in an answer. @BESW I am guessing my nephew ported that in from 4e, which he played a bit of.
 
1:09 PM
In 3.5, it was much harsher: you re-rolled if the sum of your modifiers was zero or lower, or if your highest score was 13.
(no cap.)
 
@KorvinStarmast What was the other half?
 
@SPavel Traditionally it's one-quarter dwarf, one-quarter elf.
 
@BESW >society plagued by freakish half-breeds
 
@Spavel The other half is Human; he looks more like his mom. She's mostly Sulois, with a bit of Flan and Oeridian in the mix. (World of Greyhawk setting, 5e).
 
1:12 PM
@SPavel That's a rather rude thing to call humans.
(I'm fond of the notion that humans are a dwarf/elf mix, but neither dwarves nor elves are willing to talk about it.)
Also, I'm so glad 4e gave an origin for half-orcs that doesn't make their backstories default to tragic war crimes.
 
@BESW Heh, I wonder if the dwarfish and elfish terms for "I'll respect you in the morning" are related/cognates of each other. The old "morning after regret" trope might have played in on a civilization wide basis ...
 
It doesn't make orcs any better, but every little bit helps.
It's also semi-canon in 4e (that setting likes giving multiple-choice lore) that dragonborn are cousins of dwarves.
The dragon god Io borrowed the humanoid template from Moradin to make dragonborn, which is why they have mammalian physical traits.
 
@BESW My character's mom was abducted, served as a thrall/slave (and thus "used" by the brutal captors) but escaped when the character was four and a half during an elf raid on the orc encampment. Led the three survivors on a survival trek through the woods until they found a human settlement. Settled down there to raise her son.
 
GNAAAAA! just found a target for hatred.... "RAW rules"... Department of Redundancy departmen anyone?!
 
@Trish Submit it to the Tautology Club for review at the monthly meeting, held every time the Tautology Club's monthly meetings are held.
 
1:18 PM
idk know what you mean
 
The world of D&D is a world at war/cultural conflict, in the existential sense, once you look at the MM and the Vuolo's guide back stories to so many non human races. And that doesn't even include the human societies/civilizations that are at odds with each other. Without that underlying tension, to include cross planar depredations, the game loses its sense.
 
@BESW Your sentence is just an intrinsic loop, but RAW rules is just like a "guerillia war" is literally a "little war war"
 
As opposed to a gorilla war...led by King Kong
 
@KorvinStarmast Na, Gorilla Grodd!
 
...now I'm wondering if there was ever a Monster Island/Gorilla City crossover.
 
1:23 PM
@BESW @Shalvenay has a neat take on orcs riding some wild cattle/beasts as a pastoral and nomadic peoples. (With the full warrior trope). Ran a small adventure with him that featured his take on orcs. It was refreshing. My half elf paladin ended up negotiating with and making friends with the shaman leading that clan.
 
Orcs can get pretty interesting once you put aside the default interpretation, which has ... enormous, serious problems.
(They can get interesting within that default interpretation, but it's fairly constrained & mostly we've seen it & often even those avenues have their own problems.)
 
Elder Scrolls orcs are interesting
 
oh neat: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/96339/how-do-i-balance-a-partys-ability-scores

We were just talking about this
My friend and I just realized the other day that Orcs are basically just Soviet-era Russians.
Everyone is just hungry and upset with how terrible life is. Oh, and the leader is whoever is hardest to kill.
 
@goodguy5 That's not very accurate at all
For one, Soviet leaders were very easy to kill, as they were old and often sick
 
I mean on a local level, but yea
 
1:31 PM
I'm coming to the belief that "rehabilitating" orcs as a fantasy trope is effectively impossible, because modifying or removing enough of the fundamentally bigoted underpinnings of the concept to make them palatable... makes them not orcs. So I'll just do something else to start with.
 
For two, that might be the most reductionist and culturally insensitive thing anyone's ever said in this chat
 
D:
She was Russian and saying it! I thought that made it okay.
 
@goodguy5 I like Dale's answer
 
Okay for her to say, maybe. Less so for others to repeat out of context, maybe.
 
@KorvinStarmast fyi I table-ified that table. I don't know if you're familiar with mathjax array syntax or not; if not there's a description here.
 
1:41 PM
@BESW fair. my bad. was just trying to share something.
 
@goodguy5 Aye, no foul. It might've been clearer to say that "Orcs are basically stereotypes of Soviet-era Russians."
 
@BESW That is not accurate either
 
I'd use the word caricatures
 
Something to convey that it's a misrepresentation they're being compared to, not actual people.
 
Orcs are an amalgamation of unfortunate stereotypes about a great many marginalized peoples. They are far more like an 18th century explorer's understanding of an African or Mongol tribe than any industrialized society
 
1:45 PM
really?
 
Or native americans.
 
I've never gotten that feeling from Orcs
 
@goodguy5 Yes; check that link BESW posted: nkjemisin.com/2013/02/…
It explains it pretty well.
 
checking...
 
Comparing them to the USSR casts a shadow of "not-quite personhood" that was ascribed to the "savage" peoples upon a nation that was a global superpower, and whose achievements in science, mathematics, engineering, etc were among the finest in the world and the measure of any Western civilization
 
1:48 PM
There's some surface level similarities between what your Russian friend described and what's going on for orcs, but orcs' characterisation (and problems) go far deeper.
 
I mean, isn't that exactly what he's talking about? comparing the non-personhood implicit in the orc stereotypes to the non-personhood that anti-Soviet propaganda inflicted on those peoples, and drawing parallels to how different groups are dehumanized by similar means?
 
@doppelgreener The colonial portrayal of Native Americans is different, I'd say - American revisionism likes to paint them as more "noble savage" than, say, Belgian characterization of the Congolese, or Russian of the Mongols
@BESW It's a different not-personhood
 
@SPavel That depends entirely on the era and context you're looking at.
@SPavel Obviously.
 
Thus, not a good comparison.
 
@doppelgreener nothing I can say comes out right, so I'll leave it at "I disagree"
@SPavel Only if you're assuming those traits.
you're committing the fallacy of "comparing A to B is the same as comparing B to A!"
 
1:50 PM
@SPavel Obviously. I was giving him suggestions on how to make his point more clearly, which is not the same as agreeing wholeheartedly with a sincere interpretation of what was clearly a joke in poor taste.
 
I wasn't comparing USSR citizens to orcs
 
@goodguy5 You said, verbatim, that "orcs are just basically Soviet-era Russians because everyone is hungry and upset" which reduces both subjects to having "hungry and upset" as defining traits
 
I did. you're right.
 
And I think we need to step back a bit on this.
 
^likely true
I'm willing to just chalk up my social worth being slightly diminished.

But there is one important distinction to be made that I can't let go.

Comparing a fantasy race to a group of oppressed people struggling to just get by

is not the same as calling an entire subcontinent savages or less human.
that's all
 
1:54 PM
Ooo, it's eating.
 
However, there is one thing that unites Russians and orks - the love of dakka
 
@Yuuki Sushi snacktime
 
I'm going to bed. Y'all be good, now.
 
@SPavel 40k orks best orks
 
Katyusha rocket launchers - the world's most advanced direct-fire rockets strapped to flimsy launch rails and anything that could drive them to the battlefield
 
1:57 PM
Do they work because the user believed that it works?
 
Some say that the Soviet economy only worked because the people believed that it worked, but that's not true - nobody believed that
 
heh
 

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