Charcoal HQ - 2018-03-06 (page 7 of 10)

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3:00 PM

Maybe we should change terminology because of a vocal minority?

delete with contempt

That user could also have asked what the OP meant with the term, instead of going all-out on the use of that word.

obliterate with utmost prejudice

I don't think we need to stop saying "nuke" here but for a meta post where some segments of the readership have a very vague idea of how these things actually operate, it's useful and transparent to avoid jargon

related meta.stackexchange.com/a/139950/347191 . According to this, if one were to comment on or before flagging it will end grace period.So there is a possible workaround. — Suraj Rao 32 secs ago

3:03 PM

... when we nuke* a post... (* "delete as spam": hide the revision history, apply a -100 reputation penalty, block the IP)

@tripleee This.

@doppelgreener Or more accurately, don't use that particular SFF chatroom. It's not really a chatty chatroom, just a community cleanup room where only a few people hang out. Kinda like SFF's version of Charcoal.

@Randal'Thor TREU isn't... really... that much more active.

TQAT is probably the most active at the moment.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, link at end of answer: Creating a smaller OSM extract from a Large OSM extract by Schola on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Glorfindel

3:18 PM

@Mithrandir Ever since what happened to Mos eisley

...

@JohnDvorak Oh, I'm well aware of who Shog is, and that I might be playing with fire. Probably wouldn't have dared touch his comment if I hadn't already seen Emrak/Zye get away with something similar on Literature.

New metasmoke user 'Nico Haase' created

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Phone number detected in title: apt-get returns Err archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main b43-fwcutter i386 1:013-2 404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.201 80\] by Daniel Wigert on askubuntu.com

fp- by Glorfindel

@Randal'Thor Did you clean up the other answer and other rude comments or did someone else do that?

@Mithrandir Yeah, but there's always been a sizeable "SFF chat" community. Most of them just ... moved, now.

@Magisch At least three of us have been deleting comments there. The other answer was self-deleted.

@Randal'Thor They went to Slack or something, didn't they?

Maybe that was C++

3:25 PM

@Undo iirc because several of them got perma banned from chat

@Undo Yep.

Probably shoulda forced it long before we did, but... 20/20 hindsight

I never found out what happened with mos eisley that forced such a reaction

transcript of the deleted room says nothing either

@Magisch Frankly, neither did I. Mos had had problems in the past, but I'd thought we were mostly past them and doing well, then suddenly boom.

probably because most of the cruft got deleted

3:29 PM

Well, it is a wretched hive of scum and villany

what do you expect ;)

New metasmoke user 'C8H10N4O2' created

New metasmoke user 'IronFlare' created

America waking up

@Undo That was ~2-3 hours ago

New metasmoke user 'T. Verron' created

Well, by 'waking up' I mean "made their commute, got coffee, and looking at screen now"

3:33 PM

@Undo .... Well .... I've been looking at the screen for an hour now, after making my commute. But I am lacking the coffee this morning

You're not awake yet

tp

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs Well, you're a paperclip. Where would you put the coffee?

@Randal'Thor I have my ways

@Randal'Thor would a Smokey feed into TREU be useful? It's not just spam but a thing that could do with lots of community eyes from anyone at all, not just those most enthusiastic about cleanup.

3:35 PM

We're at almost 100 new autoflaggers over the past two days.

(feel free to set me straight if I seem confused, I'm not one of the experts on SFF :D)

@Mithrandir With conditions set up and everything? Awesome that OCS still seems to work

@doppelgreener Probably not, IMO. The Restaurant denizens are probably mostly either in here, or in the SFF cleanup room, or aren't keen on handling spam anyway.

anyone speaking portuguese here? stackoverflow.com/a/49134450 possible r/a candidate

sorry, wrong room :-P

3:38 PM

none of the answers are correct the iss does not do that ever! It is totally mental retarded. There is a lot to do to make it work and it seems like no one knows how to do it. Not even with Aspo is possible and much less like php. It seems that they confuse operating system with the type of programming language that possible foot use in them. Banana for monkey and corn for horse. Stone age software, or mental retardation time instructions of torn underwear. Dying of hunger helping those who are going to die of hunger. Microsoft and associated companies. Take shame on your face to work right.

No forgiveness

You die

I'd say maybe :P

Brad got it

ok, it got larsoned

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Where can we store our luggage after checking out so we don't have to book an extra hotel night? by On 16th on travel.SE

@SmokeDetector f

3:43 PM

> Banana for monkey and corn for horse

Gotta find a way to work this into a sentence somehow

Sounds like a saying you'd just throw out to help make your point. "Well, that's just how it works. It's like a banana for monkey and corn for horse." Then make sure you give them a look that says "if you don't get this you are dumb"

Horses for cornses?

"These standup meetings don't work well for our team. Maybe they work better for other teams - banana for monkey and corn for horse, you know."

I'll make a note of the date - March 3, 2018 - and now we'll see how long it takes for the saying to spread. When historians look back, they'll see that Undo used it first to get out of stand up meetings at work. Who knows what it'll mean in the future.

Um...March 6th

I fail at calendaring

History is already failing

3:52 PM

@Andy Some people understand calendars, others don't. It's like banana for monkey and corn for horse.

ha

Wonder what happens if you try to feed a horse a banana?

room topic changed to Charcoal HQ: Where diamonds are made, smoke is detected, and we break things by developing on production. 87,500 true positives and counting. Handy links: charcoal-se.org, github.com/Charcoal-SE, charcoal-se.org/blaze, metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com [banana-for-monkey] [best-bad-practices] [corn-for-horse] [crazed-maniacs] [dev-on-prod] [everything-is-broken] [panic-driven-development] [plastic-knives] [programmatic-crowbars] [roadkill-pasta]

@YvetteColomb might know.

@Undo Depends

Some horses like it

Some hate it

Some don't know what the heck they're supposed to do with it

3:54 PM

"Standup meetings are like banana for horse."

@quartata TIL our tags are sorted in alphabetical order.

does that automatically

@Undo That's surprisingly accurate

...we might want to prune some of those

the pasta one can go, I don't remember origin on that

3:54 PM

Jan 5 at 15:24, by Glorfindel

room topic changed to Charcoal HQ: Where diamonds are made, smoke is detected, and we break things by developing on production. 81,000 true positives and counting. Handy links: http://charcoal-se.org, https://github.com/Charcoal-SE, http://charcoal-se.org/blaze/, https://metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com [best-bad-practices] [crazed-maniacs] [dev-on-prod] [everything-is-broken] [panic-driven-development] [plastic-knives] [programmatic-crowbars] [too-many-tags]

[too-many-tags]

it was when I was eating puttanesca and y'all were talking about eating roadkill venison

oh yeah

relatively recent

too soon tbh

it was kinda traumatic

The deer is already dead, might as well put it to use

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body: Jquery Remove Button is deleting all img tags and not the selected one by OT66 on stackoverflow.com

3:56 PM

the correct term is bambi

I think the key here is that, 5 flags is only for posts that have a higher probability of being spam. So we should ask more questions. What percentage of total flagged posts is this? And what are the current accuracy stats on this "level' of posts? — alexr101 12 mins ago

Can someone answer that with proper numbers? :P

I got it

(And not 42)

@SmokeDetector v

@quartata Or BAMbi, in this context.

3:57 PM

My stickers have arrived \o/

also TIL art has really good handwriting

@terdon no u

@quartata Roadkill, right? So a car hit it, right? BAM!

(yes, I know, but I can't help how my brain works)

@Magisch I saw a screenshot of his letter to angus and it actually freaked me out

@terdon I got the joke. I was just rejecting it

@tripleee hey, somebody else wants to 'nuke' a post: meta.stackexchange.com/q/307643/295232

@terdon Looks fully functional to me....

3:59 PM

@quartata Perfectly understandable.

@Tinkeringbell I appreciate that :)

man y'all are bullying animals I'm going to tell on you to Yvette

Did metasmoke self-correct that one false positive at 300 weight?

It's not showing up for 300/100/1 anymore

@quartata or Henders...

bahahaha

Huh

4:01 PM

it did

@Undo which FP? thanks

metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/24413

How did that happen

@quartata The system worked. It's 299 weight now :P

@quartata reasons becoming less accurate.

4:01 PM

Well there you go

3 of those reasons are correlated with each other

I'm just going to say 100.00% accurate over 29702 posts, historically.

maybe someday I'll get something working for that

@Undo while this is a VLQ post, I do see a zealous flagger marking this a spam.

it was actually Korean, and on AP which is weird anyway

@Glorfindel It's also almost the perfect storm of false positive

email, phone number, korean text

4:05 PM

also we didn't have auto flagging back then -- this is retroactive

What's the minimum weight to hit 99.75?

180~ I think

fun fact #2: 280 is now a single-false-positive thing

With almost 40k hits

@Undo 185

That's all sites, min 2 reasons, max 1 rep

4:08 PM

k, thanks

@Magisch I have 184

source: I have 185/1/1 and it's 99,76%

It's freaking awesome that the system chose this time to learn that FP out of existence.

@Undo it works (tm)

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: Get comments from facebook ads (marketing) by joy vera on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Glorfindel

4:10 PM

@Undo UPDATE reasons SET weight = 34 WHERE name = 'Email in body'?

I've just checked and I can't go any lower than 184/1/2

@Glorfindel I didn't touch it :P

@alexr101 Five flags is far more risk than three, as a bunch of people here note. We take that into account when choosing accuracy levels. Our current consideration would have been 100.00% accurate over the 29,702 posts that would have matched this condition. See the accuracy graph. Fun fact - that one red dot in that graph isn't there any more. The system found more data in the last few days, learned from it, and that post's weight dropped below the threshold. I expect total percentage of flagged posts getting 5 flags, going forward, to be around 63%. — Undo 43 secs ago

Yeah I'm using 184/1/2 currently

185/1/1 works, too

New metasmoke user 'Daniel' created

4:13 PM

you can't hit 185 weight with one reason :P

Although the 1 reson is pointless because 185 can't come from just one

dog sniped

:p

great now you're sniping dogs

reported

yum dog meat

I meant that as I got sniped by a dog

Although there isn't much usable meat on me - I'm a floating smiley after all

and advocating cannibalism. clearly autoflagging is a slippery slope

4:16 PM

@Magisch You could alway eat your hat...

@Magisch you're a scout I thought

Is that a saying in English too?

@quartata It's supposed to be a tech support smiley

yeah

the headset is shopped' onto a early version of the awesome smiley

4:18 PM

it's definitely the scout's though

@quartata yeah

I think I nicked it from TF2

a friend helped me with it

I know nothing about how to work photoshop

the orange speaker is the giveaway

since it has to work with both red and blue

very distinctive color

where is the site where I can see what smoky has triggered on a particular site?

I thought blaze was it, but I can't seem to find the correct page

4:22 PM

@David metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/…

This is for blender

(I assumed that was what you wanted to see)

@Magisch thanks. and even the right site; )

\o/ guesswork

@David also check the new dashboard: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/sites/…

@Glorfindel oo pretty.

@Magisch are you "technical support" :o [say it with a foreign accent, it'll sound better]

4:26 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body, +2 more: What is Dermagen iQ? by fordonce 19 on workplace.SE

ok I must be missing something. on the dashboard it says "3 attempts to cast flags automatically on Blender in the last 3 months." Then what is the large list below? there are a whole lot more then three posts in that list?

@WELZ I work as a software developer, sysadmin and data protection officer

so no

tpu- by Glorfindel

@David All reports by smoke detector

Only some reports are subject to autoflagging

@David the posts below weren't considered for autoflagging, because they didn't trigger enough detection rules.

4:27 PM

@Magisch ok so that list is any and everything it picked up.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +3 more: dietplanusa.com/miracle-bust/ by wollfkitar on graphicdesign.SE

Aye

tpu- by Glorfindel

@David All reports are posted here in chat, but only those where we can be heuristically extremely sure they're spam get autoflags

@Glorfindel got it. It there a way to see just the auto flagged posts?

4:27 PM

We optimize for no false negatives in reports themselves and no false positives on autoflagging

@David Short explanation: Smokey tries to detect all the spam (and gets some false positives in there); autoflagging tries to remove all the false positives (leaving only the spam)

@David Autoflagged tab on that table

oh. I'm feeling dumb now...

But note that those aren't what we would flag with 5 flags. It's confusing, but none of those would be eligible for 5.

right. I got that.

The little number in parenthesis on each row is what you'd look at - 300 is the threshold we're playing with for now.

4:29 PM

@David It's one: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/100338

(reason I'm looking for this data is because I'm writing an answer for the meta Q)

@David It is a false positive, but would not be autoflagged under current new proposed guidelines

user image

So it'd never have recieved 5 autoflags. Only 3, which were retracted by the members affected or declined by moderators

uhm, is that our personal attack on them? :P

4:30 PM

@WELZ HTML in dropdowns are hard.

@WELZ If you're on about the & - check the different Stack Overflows...

nice. so the one false we did get would not of gotten the 5 anyway.

Correct

@David correct. It was also identified as a false positive immediately by 5 users

yep I was there (shortly after it was flagged)

4:31 PM

Jan 3 at 11:54, by SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body: How to animate stretchable muscles? by jeff on blender.SE

Is when that happened

heh, that title looks like spam even to me

Smiley sniped :D

you all should have a post status column in that table. shows if the post is currently deleted, closed or open.

@David We can't track that. We only track like 5 minutes after reporting

Unfortunately we have API limits which kind of hinder that

4:32 PM

Via websocket

@David When we have that information, it's in the red parenthesis on each row. (the 'deleted one minute after creation'). Don't always have it.

API limits and all

@Undo there is nothing wrong with that title. what in there did set it off?

New metasmoke user 'Ultrasonic54321' created

Title - Position 28-35: muscles
Body - Position 289-301: dermarket.co

4:33 PM

!!/test blendermarket.com

> Pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title
----------
Title - Position 5-17: dermarket.co
Body - Position 5-17: dermarket.co

@David It looks like the kind of muscle supplement spam we get 20 a day of

@Undo oh. that could be the issue

Note that blendermarket.com is now a #notspam-provisional

@Magisch yah I was guessing "muscles" was the thing

4:34 PM

what is "pattern-matching" reason?

@WELZ That it matches a regex

@David Yeah, spammers do bizarre things to domain names to obfuscate them. We can probably tune that out.

@David Just containing the word "muscle" gives a post an 98,7% likelyhood of being spam

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title, phone number detected in title: Does Gmail I888862I202 s.u.p.p.o.r.t dependent on phone Google number. why? by Singh Bisht on stackoverflow.com

@CalvT븃 that's good to know. should I get you all a list of other common blender urls, just to see if any of those match bad ones?

4:36 PM

I don't think we have muscle itself blacklisted though

@David the tag description is "Domains classified as not spam by a Bayesian classifier based on other MS domain data."

@David Wouldn't be a bad idea

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

@Undo Yeah, I get the risk factor, but if the accurracy for these higher risk posts is 100% (so far) then the chances are extremely low that a legit post will get deleted. Since the rest of the posts will still get only 3 flags, right? That's just my 2 cents. I don't see that much risk given the reward :) — alexr101 1 min ago

\o/

@Magisch wow. so did this one get marked? blender.stackexchange.com/q/102417/2217

4:37 PM

!!/test blender.stackexchange.com/questions/102417/…

Nope

> Url in title, bad keyword in title
----------
Title - Position 72-78: muscle
Title - Position 1-34: https://blender.stackexchange.com

@CalvT븃 Lol!

!!/scan blender.stackexchange.com/questions/102417

@WELZ Post Create skeleton for muscle simulation does not look like spam.

(you could of deleted that one, and I would not of mind)

4:38 PM

it's a valid question, as far as we're concerned. Making VLQ decisions isn't our thing.

@David ignore my test btw I did a dumb

@Undo you want the urls formatted one per line or something else?

@David That'd work

@Undo I know. was just mini venting.

@Undo ok will ping you with a paste bin some time soonish.

great

4:40 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body, pattern-matching website in body, +1 more: Where to purchase? by fordonce 19 on superuser.com

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

@SmokeDetector only one autoflag?

@CalvT븃 the experiment is still on

@SmokeDetector autoflagged

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs That post was automatically flagged, using flags from: ByteCommander.

Ah yeah - having not been around lately...

4:42 PM

mmmm... Can someone tell me (not give me a link, but tell me) how to get from the main MS page to the results page with a list of all posts on IPS that Smokey caught?

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Misleading link: Angular return results from google PlacesService and add to Observable by Kyle Abens on stackoverflow.com

(no rush)

@Catija Search, select site

One Question: is there a reason why i can'T search/see the security.stackexchange?

@Catija home page scroll down to the bottom -> "Spam/Autoflagging by site (including undeleted)" - the select IPS from the list

4:43 PM

Or that

sorry, found that (was not security but information security)

Thanks!

@Catija metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/…

This is all reports, not all autoflags

fp- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

wait

you said no link, sorry about that

4:45 PM

K, the spam phase is over. Time for the drama phase

New metasmoke user 'Matei Radu' created

New metasmoke user 'GloriaVictis' created

Another take away from the meta post: MetaSmoke is confusing to users. This appears to be a combination of what "True Positive" means. Does it mean Smokey detected it correctly or does it mean we flagged it correctly? It's also hard to find things.

I've mentioned in the past about things being hard to find on both ms and charcoal-se.org

Basically Smokey has grown arms and legs and is now -very- somewhat confusing to anyone that wasn't around while he/she/it grew those arms and legs

New metasmoke user 'yash Purohit' created

New metasmoke user 'poke' created

4:55 PM

@CalvT븃 "they"

Yeah I just had a mind blank as to pronouns

As an aside how do you do strikethrough in chat?

triple dashes

it's weird

different flavor of markdown

Yeah k - no thanks

@CalvT븃 it's established Smokey is a he. It must be confusing for you because you weren't around when he grew gender

Sums it up nicely though

are we sexist?

4:57 PM

I don't think that's established at all though

@M.A.R. Oh I remember that - Glor literally got banned for a few hours because of one of his comments about it

I'm out for two months, and Smokey already sounds like alien technology

@WELZ we are?

@CalvT븃 haha I remember that

@M.A.R. you tell me

Here's another discussion

Apr 3 '17 at 15:44, by M.A.R.

What is Smokey's gender, and how to correctly refer to Smokey without being botist?

Apr 3 '17 at 15:44, by Undo

male

4:59 PM

@CalvT븃 yeah, that one.

I guess that establishes it enough

@CalvT븃 yeah, a message with 7 stars ...

@M.A.R. I'm unconvinced art and undo aren't aliens and we're their AI

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