Charcoal HQ

You should be able to request a test subject. something like !!/backedbeansand- and then meta smoke would reserve a post for testing purposes and it replies with We have backed beans and spam spam spam and luxery tide pod soaps

iBug

Test what?

Tschallacka

1:07 PM

They are looking for a test post to test something on, but stuff vanishes too soon :P

JAD

@Tschallacka nah, theyre grabbing an old spam post from MS, and reposting it

since they want to know what happens on the site

CalvT븃

Yeah no I can't post anything for another 40 minutes

Must be via the IP

WELZ

aaand here it comes.

CalvT븃

Not cookies or session or account

Mithrandir

Ouch, heh

Art can clear the flags though

CalvT븃

1:09 PM

Only on my EC2 so I'll stop and start it later which will change the IP

ArtOfCode

@Mithrandir already done

WELZ

didn't even catch it lol

!!/scan softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/q/48986/36605

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in body, pattern-matching email in body: How do I assume title as the co-signer on car loan after the borrower's death? by spamposter on softwarerecs.SE

ArtOfCode

uh

CalvT븃

Was a guest user so not a problem

ArtOfCode

1:10 PM

that's software recs

delete it quick

SmokeDetector

tpu- by WELZ

Glorfindel

also, weight too low ...

WELZ

wasn't me :S

Processed Meat

0

Q: Is this question SPAM?

I get the feeling this question is only asked to place a lot of links. I cannot read czech but it seems to me that many of the links are commercial ones. The user has only asked this question and seems to have got all his reputation from this question. I am not sure if it should be flagged for s...

WELZ

@SmokeDetector flag that guys, still alive

ArtOfCode

1:11 PM

@SmokeDetector @WELZ if this is your post, you're gonna want to delete it before it gets spam nuked

tripleee

these test posts are too similar to real spam to avoid flagging, could you put something obvious in the title?

Glorfindel

@CalvT븃 it's a problem, you can't delete posts as an anonymous user.

WELZ

@ArtOfCode I'm not saying it was or wasn't. but why's that?

CalvT븃

@Glorfindel Art can delete it thought (cc @ArtOfCode in case!)

ArtOfCode

@WELZ I'm not a mod on software recs...

Glorfindel

1:12 PM

whois softwarerecs mods

ArtOfCode

heh, wrong room :P

WELZ

Hardware recs Lol

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Evengard' created

Glorfindel

@ArtOfCode on purpose :P

JAD

:|

SmokeDetector

1:12 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly dots in body: Displaying one column as two | mySQL by Clemens Steinbauer on stackoverflow.com

Undo is

@SmokeDetector f

fp- by Magisch

okay, the official verdict is "eh" and that I need to do more in-depth testing locally

Mithrandir

Pong @Undo so that you're aware of this muck-up

Glorfindel

1:13 PM

And we've confirmed that we're officially the worst group of spammers ever.

8

WELZ

Lol

Tinkeringbell

Question? For cases such as this, isn't it possible to create a post/question explaining that there will be tests, and then post spam answers? Would be much less chaotic maybe?

WELZ

@Tinkeringbell probably

Tinkeringbell

Isn't there an SE site where this thing can be tested?

Tschallacka

charcoal area 51 :P all questions regarding metasmoke and charcoal heh

ArtOfCode

1:15 PM

@Tinkeringbell not a single site, no. We just use sites that someone's a mod on when we need to test things like this

JAD

hmm, arguably the charcoal SE site, when that goes in beta

CalvT븃

@Tinkeringbell Aye, but there's no Charcoal person who's a mod there

JAD

I can't remember the name of the project

Mithrandir

Channels?

JAD

that

ArtOfCode

1:16 PM

SO For Teams

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'kingofzeal' created

JAD

I'm not sure how similar it'll be to SE

tripleee

should we propose charcoal.se on area51?

ArtOfCode

hehe

reckon we could get enough supporters? :P

WELZ

I had thought about it... but there isn't enough content

Tschallacka

1:17 PM

with the number of people who lend their account, if they all vote in support we should be golden

spam is content? right right?

WELZ

Lol

JAD

@Tschallacka well, we could make them ;)

Tinkeringbell

@ArtOfCode Hmm... that's .. not .. how .. I learned .. testing is supposed to work...

Tschallacka

it will act as a honeypot for training the smoke detector

ArtOfCode

@JAD Hmmm... not sure we could, actually

JAD

1:17 PM

A51 is weird, I know

@Tinkeringbell Note the [tag:dev-on-prod]

ArtOfCode

@Tinkeringbell No, it's very much not :D Take a look at the room tags for a brief explanation of why everything is upside down here

Tinkeringbell

@JAD Yeah, I should have been warned XD

Mithrandir

There have been suggestions for a Sandbox.SE before.

iBug

@Glorfindel Undo is, provided he's online.

WELZ

@Mithrandir it would just become spam haven

Tschallacka

1:19 PM

will there be bacon? I like bacon and spam

ArtOfCode

We are [crazed-maniacs] running around with [plastic-knives], using [programmatic-crowbars] to perform [dev-on-prod] using [best-bad-practices] and following [panic-driven-development] methodology. Our [roadkill-pasta] went bad yesterday, so we're all grumpy, which means [everything-is-broken].

Glorfindel

@ArtOfCode autoflags don't trigger on child metas, do they? If they do, it's probably better to pick HR.Meta next time.

iBug

I like bread and spam, best served with cream.

ArtOfCode

@Glorfindel uh

genuinely don't know

iBug

@Glorfindel Human Resources (department).SE?

Glorfindel

1:20 PM

Hardware Recommendations

WELZ

!!/scan hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/q/8915/7853

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body: Get a blank card for free? by smartpost on hardwarerecs.SE

WELZ

!!/scan hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/q/8915/7853

SmokeDetector

@WELZ Post Get a blank card for free? does not look like spam.

iBug

"Art"ware recommendations

doppelgreener

1:21 PM

@SmokeDetector O_o

iBug

!!/scan hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/q/8915

SmokeDetector

@iBug Post Get a blank card for free? does not look like spam.

WELZ

I gotta go, but it seems like this won't work after all. -_-

iBug

what the heck?

doppelgreener

So it concludes it doesn't look like spam if it's already got a report

ArtOfCode

1:22 PM

pretty sure it's gotta pick it up naturally the first time, y'all

CalvT븃

@WELZ can you edit it then scan again?

doppelgreener

that sounds like an improper handling of a return false;

Mithrandir

@Glorfindel you need 5 rep for Meta posts

ArtOfCode

but let's stop spamming HR now :P

Glorfindel

@Mithrandir ah, gotcha.

ArtOfCode

1:22 PM

@CalvT븃 wouldn't get flagged

Suraj Rao

spam stackoverflow.com/a/49131184/4826457 ?

iBug

!!/scan hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/q/8915

SmokeDetector

@iBug Post Get a blank card for free? does not look like spam.

WELZ

!!/scan hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/q/8915/7853

SmokeDetector

@WELZ Post Get a blank card for free? does not look like spam.

doppelgreener

1:22 PM

!!/scan hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/8915/…

SmokeDetector

@doppelgreener Post Get a blank card for free? does not look like spam.

doppelgreener

(different url?)

ok :)

CalvT븃

So yeah needs to be picked up naturally the first time

iBug

!!/scan hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/q/8915/123456789

Magisch

@SurajRao Self promotion

SmokeDetector

1:23 PM

@iBug Cannot find data for this post in the API. It may have already been deleted.

iBug

@SmokeDetector What?

CalvT븃

@iBug Art deleted

Suraj Rao

@Magisch well I warned the user

iBug

So conclusion?

ArtOfCode

10 mins ago, by ArtOfCode

okay, the official verdict is "eh" and that I need to do more in-depth testing locally

CalvT븃

1:24 PM

We are bad spammers

iBug

eh

Mithrandir

I think that Charcoal has now posted more spam on HardwareRecs.SE than real spammers in the past couple months.

Suraj Rao

clearly cross site spammer softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/329383/…

ArtOfCode

@SurajRao self-promotion, treat with caution

Suraj Rao

doesnt SD give username matches url reason for github?

iBug

1:25 PM

The last Relapse CD was "eh"

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Nonny Moose' created

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, no whitespace in answer: Displaying an image from a json file by user9451427 on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Glorfindel

terdon

@SurajRao Why is that spam? There is clear attribution.

Tschallacka

lol, last minute edit, I dont know the answer, maybe you should ask jesse - deleted

iBug

furious terdon has come again!

doppelgreener

it's definitely a poor quality answer though

ArtOfCode

1:27 PM

s/furious/correct/ :P

terdon

@iBug Furious?

iBug

@terdon Sorry, I meant Fast and.

"fast and" terdon has come again!

Suraj Rao

OP is posting their library in multiple sites.. no other visible contribution. they are there for self promotion

doppelgreener

@SurajRao i raised a custom flag on that post

> this user was also advertising this project on stack overflow (but without attribution there) -- stackoverflow.com/a/49131184/254830, might be a 10k-only answer soon. probably keep an eye on this user. they meet guidelines of stating association here, but they aren't meeting our answer quality requirements.

Suraj Rao

alright..

Tschallacka

1:31 PM

I vote alleft

CalvT븃

Me too

Probably should coordinate that

terdon

This seems like an excellent example of a post that charcoal should simply leave alone.

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Sanchises' created

terdon

You could raise a custom flag explaining your concern if you really want to, but unless you understand the subject matter well enough to judge whether or not that answer is actually useful, don't downvote, don't comment, don't do anything at all.

There's nothing wrong with inaction, sometimes.

doppelgreener

right, i've downvoted as LQ, and feel comfortable doing so specifically because i use software engineering, and raised that comment to inform site moderation, but that's the extent of it

@terdon completely agree

JAD

1:34 PM

if anything, isn't it still mostly a link-only answer?

terdon

That would depend on the site. The answer still stands without the link, it does contain enough information to tell you that "I've written this thing that would be useful here". You need the link since it doesn't sound like something that could fit in an SE answer. Links don't make an answer bad by definition, certainly not if the answer is suggesting a resource (and the question is one where a resource can be an answer).

JAD

fair enough, thanks

terdon

For a more extreme example, an answer on hardware recs that says that "This particular piece of hardware would work for you. It has features X,Y,Z and you can find the manufacturer's page at example.com"; wouldn't be link only.

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'John M' created

Magisch

> Shog9 As an aside, after some thought I've edited one of your comments to remove unnecessary rudeness.

:o someone's playing with fire

Suraj Rao

1:40 PM

Well those generally tend to ask for external resources and so are valid answers

ArtOfCode

@terdon nowhere near it... in fact, we need all of those answers we can get :P

WELZ

It's remarkable to me, that we automatically find all this spam, yet can't post spam that will get auto found! Yet all these spammers somehow have no trouble in MAKING SURE that we catch it instantantly

JAD

@WELZ well, do we really have data on the amount of false negatives we have?

Glorfindel

The problem is HardwareRecs gets so few spam posts that all posts are put into a queue.

WELZ

what queue?

Magisch

1:44 PM

@ArtOfCode seems like SFF leans toward rejecting autoflagging alltogether

ArtOfCode

@Magisch no, looking like they don't want 5 flags, but would keep 3

CalvT븃

@Magisch link?

Glorfindel

!!/queuestatus

SmokeDetector

askubuntu.com: 1
hinduism.stackexchange.com: 1
crypto.stackexchange.com: 1
scicomp.stackexchange.com: 1
opensource.stackexchange.com: 1
musicfans.stackexchange.com: 1
space.stackexchange.com: 1
judaism.stackexchange.com: 1
law.stackexchange.com: 1
blender.stackexchange.com: 1
es.stackoverflow.com: 2
buddhism.stackexchange.com: 1
languagelearning.stackexchange.com: 1
chemistry.stackexchange.com: 1
sustainability.stackexchange.com: 1
italian.stackexchange.com: 1
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com: 1
quant.stackexchange.com: 1

Magisch

@ArtOfCode the comments are split between "no bots at all" and "how dare shog direct this to mse"

Glorfindel

1:45 PM

@WELZ ^^ that queue.

doppelgreener

@Magisch i suggest keeping mentally separate "the SFF community" and "the people vocally and loudly completely freaking out about outside influence and corruption of democracy"

Glorfindel

Makes sure we don't run out of API quota.

WELZ

6

Q: Do we want Smoke Detector to auto flag spam?

TL;DR: there's a system called "Smoke Detector" that has been automatically flagging spam here for the past year. You can view a list of posts that have been flagged by clicking this text (warning: some vulgar / offensive content if you click through to the flagged posts in that list.) Right n...

discussion flagging spam

ArtOfCode

@Magisch what doppel said. Comments are people freaking out. I'm inclined to ignore them. Voting puts the top answer as keep 3, no 5.

Magisch

@ArtOfCode Is that easy to implement?

SmokeDetector

1:46 PM

New metasmoke user 'g00glen00b' created

ArtOfCode

@Magisch yeah, dead easy

Magisch

i.E are we doing sites being able to choose their own autoflag numbers?

ArtOfCode

same way it's done for ELU and Workplace

Magisch

Because shog suggests we shouldn't do this "piecemeal"

at least thats how I read his comment

ArtOfCode

@Magisch If sites make meta posts on their own and come to us with the results, we can and should do what we're asked to, within reason.

We shouldn't go splitting it up across all the sites ourselves.

Magisch

1:50 PM

alright

So we'll wait that post out and then implement the results when they're done hashing it out?

It's becoming really hard to keep up with all the discussion

ArtOfCode

Yup. Gonna ask Rand to come to us when he feels the discussion has run its course

doppelgreener

Just a thought, should we invite SFF to have a Smokey feed in their chat? It will give them visibility into what gets spotted and what does/doesn't happen with it.

John Dvorak

yes. They can always decline.

ArtOfCode

Yeah, we can offer

Magisch

You will have the power to remove not only spam but also post you don't like, say from competitors — Peter verleg 1 hour ago

ArtOfCode

1:53 PM

Think we should let them have the discussion first, though.

doppelgreener

Ok.

Magisch

I've finally cracked the code behind art's self promotion of his stroopwafels recipes :D

doppelgreener

Meta post to SFF using the [discussion] [chat] [spam] tags in a couple of days might be good then.

ArtOfCode

@Magisch uh what

Mithrandir

@doppelgreener There is one already.

SmokeDetector

1:57 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: How to use refresh method in ui-grid? by user2067351 on stackoverflow.com

Glorfindel

@SmokeDetector tp- (deleted by owner)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: Bootstrap 3 full width div's in container-fluid by user9451573 on stackoverflow.com

Mithrandir

in SFF community cleanup room, Mar 2 at 0:18, by SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Repeating characters in answer: What’s the correct way to refer to “the Doctor”? by Ftdftkdijjstiofuoldisigurausis on scifi.SE

SmokeDetector

naa- by Glorfindel

tpu- by chade_ on How to use refresh method in ui-grid? [MS]

Glorfindel

(though I could see people flagging that as R/A)

Magisch

1:57 PM

@ArtOfCode joke on that one conspiratorial comment

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Flimzy' created

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Repeating characters in answer: Longest keyword chain? by user9451583 on stackoverflow.com

Magisch

yes it came across as smooth as a tractor going through a flowerbed, but still

SmokeDetector

tpu- by Glorfindel

New metasmoke user 'wally' created

doppelgreener

@Mithrandir oh!

@Mithrandir I guess a lot of people who aren't aware of what Smokey does also don't use SFF chat

Magisch

@doppelgreener or have been permabanned from chat cough

Journeyman Geek

2:01 PM

or just like drama.

doppelgreener

both also good points

John Dvorak

Yeech! SFF's dark chat theme totally doesn't work with my colorful chat userscript...

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Mateusz Szlosek' created

Mithrandir

@JohnDvorak I love the dark theme

SFF has like the coolest design on the network

John Dvorak

I didn't say it's bad, just that I'll have to tweak my script if it's to work with dark themes.

and by tweak, I mean find out how to have it work with different palettes, then find a good palette for dark themes.

Journeyman Geek

2:09 PM

@JohnDvorak lots of other sites wished they had a dark option

John Dvorak

there are some userstyles for dark themes, I believe, but I'll pass

Undo

@Magisch That's a pretty awesome comment, actually. If only we had competitors.

Tschallacka

so if i'm not allowed to look at the review menu item, why is it teasing me with a (2) over there. I sense some diabolical programming

John Dvorak

Post a feature request on github. Nice catch.

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'rpadovani' created

Tschallacka

2:17 PM

with freehand circles: github.com/Charcoal-SE/metasmoke/issues/342

John Dvorak

Nice!

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'carlosmunozrodriguez' created

Mithrandir

@SmokeDetector What happened to the link?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: Change an image with onclick() by hasan on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Floern

JAD

@SmokeDetector k

doppelgreener

2:27 PM

@Mithrandir no man links to Carlos Munoz Rodriguez

thx phone

Tschallacka

heh, that hasan has a beef on that post, was the second time he posted on that post

Magisch

@Undo goes to try and setup a competing charcoal

fails

Undo

So I've got thirteen things in my inbox - what's the lazy dog's version of last night?

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'johnnyRose' created

Magisch

@Undo were you around for the sff meta post?

I think art's got a pending MS deploy too

John Dvorak

2:32 PM

tl;dr: someone who disagreed with smokey being on SFF, quite a bit of discussion, and a sprinkle of accusations of favoritism.

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'David Mulder' created

Magisch

@JohnDvorak also accusing us of being a voting ring, and some other choice insults

Nothing too bad

Undo

@Magisch Another one? Or rand's?

John Dvorak

Before that, a too strongly worded autocomment nearly caused a Bi user to leave, which earned us a flat ban on speech.

Magisch

@Undo rand's

got a little more ugly

Andy

2:37 PM

@Undo Just Rand has replied to the SFF post.

Cerbrus

@JohnDvorak (autocomment that really has nothing to do with SD / MS)

Magisch

also someone edited shog's comments because they were rude

not sure how often that happens but that sounds like playing with fire

Cerbrus

🔥

Journeyman Geek

you need to be a mod to do that

Glorfindel

I'm a mod but I wouldn't dare that.

John Dvorak

2:38 PM

Try to flame Charcoal and we'll burn even stronger

Cerbrus

@JourneymanGeek one with balls of steel, at that

doppelgreener

local mods know their sites and how to keep the peace on them

Journeyman Geek

@Cerbrus steel melts. ;p

Processed Meat

5

Q: End the edit grace period upon two or more spam/rude flags being raised

I am aware that a similar suggestion was made and rejected. The major criticism of that one was essentially this The only problem with this is it's unexpected - there's no visible trace on that post to indicate to the user why their grace period didn't apply. Seems like it'd be more sane to d...

feature-request flags spam offensive grace-period

John Dvorak

maybe someone unaware of SE's who's who?

doppelgreener

2:38 PM

if revising shog9's comment is what that takes, shog9 would probably be fine with doing so, or at least not care strongly enough to raise issue with it

Journeyman Geek

I'd totally be having a chat with shog if I ended up doing that, but I'm familiar with his... rather folksy manner

Cerbrus

@JourneymanGeek Not if the fire's fueled with jet fuel ;-)

Mithrandir

@Magisch happened on Literature once too

Journeyman Geek

@Cerbrus dude. Thermite.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, repeating characters in answer, repeating words in answer: How can you access your router via IPV6? by bhim on superuser.com

doppelgreener

2:40 PM

@SmokeDetector sorry we do not speak parseltongue, are you looking for ss.superuser.com

Cerbrus

Thermite rocks... I once burned a hole in a fume hood at school, with the stuff :D

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Tapaka' created

Mithrandir

(literature.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/527/…)

Magisch

@Cerbrus Our chemistry teacher once allowed us to test the new fireproof stand and table with thermite

500g thermite to be precise

doppelgreener

that's brave

but also excellent

that is exactly what science is about

"we have a new thing. it is meant to be fireproof. let's find out by taking this extremely dangerous substance and setting it on fire."

SmokeDetector

2:42 PM

tpu- by Glorfindel

Cerbrus

@Magisch did you tell taht teacher he's awesome?

doppelgreener

@Mithrandir that is a good example of shog9 not considering his comments untouchable or beyond reproach

Magisch

@doppelgreener they got a rebate on the tables because apparently fireproof and molten white hot iron proof are two different things

the stand got just burned through

Journeyman Geek

@doppelgreener the mod also handled it well.

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

@JourneymanGeek Except for the public criticism. Generally that kind of stuff isn't left in comments, but kinda glad it was xD

Journeyman Geek

2:46 PM

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs well, depends on the sort of effect you want.

And I think Zyrah's one of those folks who can pull that off.

doppelgreener

@JourneymanGeek i agree

Journeyman Geek

See, its not "you're wrong"

its "I'm not comfortable with the way this is expressed"

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Ubdus Samad' created

Journeyman Geek

and (god I say this too much this week) - its the sort of thing a mod can/should do as a representative as the site.

SmokeDetector

tpu by Glorfindel on Get a blank card for free? [MS]

tpu by Glorfindel on A free, lightweight but quality video capture software for Windows? [MS]

doppelgreener

2:48 PM

yup

Andy

Minor takeaway from the meta-post: Stop using "nuke". It's confusing people.

Cerbrus

What's confusing is that people assumed there's such a thing as a "obliterate"-kind-of-nuke in SO in the first place.

Mithrandir

So should we nuke instances of its use?

(sorry)

Cerbrus

@Mithrandir That joke's been made already :P

Glorfindel

@Andy and the preferred way to refer to this is?

Cerbrus

2:57 PM

By none other than our Shogmeister

Loong

@Andy It's also not nice when you actually have a nuclear job. :-(

Glorfindel

destroy?

Cerbrus

delete?

Glorfindel

No, deleting a post is different.

Andy

@Loong Maybe we can get an exception there :)

Cerbrus

2:58 PM

@Glorfindel Well, depends. They assumed "nuke" means more than "delete" does

And so far, it seems to be only 1 user that actually has a problem with the term

Glorfindel

Well, it does; it hides the revision history, applies a -100 reputation penalty, hobbles/blocks the IP ...

terdon

spam-delete?

Transcript for