TeX, LaTeX and Friends

siracusa

00:08

Does l3regex support more than 9 capturing groups? The \g command seems to also support numbers larger than 9

Seems like it does

Joseph Wright

07:12

@egreg I'll remove \c_term_ior today

Skillmon

08:31

@PauloCereda why does your editor have a GUI?

@JosephWright why? Is there any alternative interface to terminal input?

Joseph Wright

@Skillmon Yes. We changed stuff ages ago to use a pool of streams for writing. But that means allocating unopen read streams to the terminal. Unlike writing, we need an EOF test for reading. Things get confused, so we need a dedicated \ior_get_term:nN function: it's in l3experimental.

@Skillmon Conceptually, reading from the terminal probably should be different from reading from a file anyway

@Skillmon I think we will likely move those functions to stable soon (@egreg, @PhelypeOleinik, @UlrikeFischer?)

David Carlisle

I'm feeling left out :(

3

Skillmon

@JosephWright ok, had no idea. Maybe I should try to get more involved in l3experimental and try to read it once in a while :)

@DavidCarlisle please don't cry!

egreg

@JosephWright Yes, there should be a stable way to read from the terminal. Not so used nowadays, perhaps, but surely necessary.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Quite

@DavidCarlisle Sorry ;)

@egreg I guess another PR ...

@egreg Really just a question of deciding if the interface I've suggested (using one possibly-empty tl) is OK

Paulo Cereda

09:10

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle Quack

David Carlisle

Jul 23 at 12:12, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda dinner

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle you are mean

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda I know:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle I... I...

I wasn't expecting that...

/quacks in despair

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda nobody expects the Spanish inquisition

Paulo Cereda

09:13

@DavidCarlisle ooh fear and surprise

@DavidCarlisle nobody expects @JosephWright reading your code and writing stern comments. :)

@Skillmon it's the terminal, not my fault. :)

Faheem Mitha

09:30

@DavidCarlisle Historically speaking, some people probably did expect the Spanish inquisition. Though probably only Spanish people.

(And yes, I know it's a MP reference.)

Paulo Cereda

Meanwhile, Biggles dictates a letter.

@JosephWright LEMON CURRY?

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda !!!

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Theory of the brontos. :)

Faheem Mitha

10:57

@EnthusiasticEngineer I try to put mine in an ordered hierarchy of folders/directories. And I make heavy use of (distributed) version control (Mercurial). You can't commit everything, but small PDF files are not a problems. And even B&W scans are quite small, relatively speaking.

Distributed version control makes searching for stuff a bit easier (look at the logs for keywords). And pushing remotely is an efficient and reliable form of backup.

Of course, distributed version control also has other benefits.

texdr.aft

11:13

do any TeX engines have readline support?

Joseph Wright

@texdr.aft huh?

texdr.aft

@JosephWright I mean support for GNU readline-like functionality in the terminal, like using the arrow keys without them getting transformed into escape sequences or using up and down for history

Joseph Wright

@texdr.aft Works for me in pdfTeX (TL'19 on Win32)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright backspace works but do arrow keys, if I left arrow I get

$ pdftex
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019) (preloaded format=pdftex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
**\read -1 to \zz
entering extended mode
abccc

*\show\zz
> \zz=macro:
->aaa^^[[D^^[[Dbbb^^[[D^^[[Dccc .
<*> \show\zz

?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Works for me, like I said: going to be dependent on the build I guess (also might depend on the terminal: I suspect e.g. passing from TeXworks, the editing is all done in Qt, then the final result is passed back to TeX)

David Carlisle

11:24

@JosephWright yes would work for me if I ran it inside emacs, I suspect few tex users know tex has an interactive input so probably not a very requested feature

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle To be clear, I tested both from Command Prompt and TeXworks, to be on the safe side :)

texdr.aft

@JosephWright I suspect it has something to do with the platform, since unix terminals usually follow posix standards but Windows Command Prompt is entirely different

Joseph Wright

@texdr.aft Possibly: like I said, I think if you try in an editor, the results could be different anyway

@texdr.aft I have to wonder what prompts the question!

texdr.aft

@JosephWright I've been messing with plain TeX and doing a lot interactively, so the inability to move the cursor is pretty noticeable (not a huge problem though of course)

there's something called rlwrap that seems to work quite well

Paulo Cereda

11:51

@DavidCarlisle bah emacs

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda that is not how you spell bless

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle hmm

texdr.aft

emacs is just intimidating

Skillmon

12:09

@texdr.aft better use VIM :)

texdr.aft

@Skillmon ed is clearly the superior text editor

Skillmon

@PauloCereda ^^^

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon :)

Skillmon

@PauloCereda and that is all the window has (screenshot done with import)

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon ooh

texdr.aft

12:17

Skillmon

@texdr.aft those are more than 80 chars in width

@texdr.aft and more than 24 lines in height

texdr.aft

@Skillmon that's fair, but it's fullscreen and that would require an awkward text size

Phelype Oleinik

@JosephWright Looks good to me :-)

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik LISTEN TO MR. CARLISLE

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda Huh?

texdr.aft

12:27

Paulo Cereda

4 hours ago, by David Carlisle

I'm feeling left out :(

texdr.aft

@Skillmon is that better?

Skillmon

@texdr.aft the size looks right, but now it got some ugly GUI

:)

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda Joseph can ping up to three team members. He made his choice ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik bah

You guys are mean

@PhelypeOleinik I will write a stern commit message.

Skillmon

12:30

@PhelypeOleinik are you an official team member now?

Paulo Cereda

:D

@Skillmon he's the blame bloke. :)

@PhelypeOleinik ^^

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda I should probably arrange myself a "you are not mean" message...

@Skillmon Depending on what you need me for ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik hold on

@PhelypeOleinik you are mean

@PhelypeOleinik You are not mean. :)

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda That was easy :-)

@Skillmon latex-project.org/about/team

yo'

@PauloCereda no, you will not :-)

Paulo Cereda

12:36

@yo' <3

Skillmon

@PhelypeOleinik were you always there? Last time I checked I cannot remember you being in that list...

Phelype Oleinik

@Skillmon No, one or two weeks ago

Skillmon

@PhelypeOleinik congratulations!

Phelype Oleinik

@Skillmon Thanks :-)

Ulrich Diez

13:29

PLease somebody re-open the question "How to read a picture with name # in it?" (tex.stackexchange.com/questions/502392/… ) . I was about to submit an answer. The question was closed while I was clicking the submit-button.

Ulrike Fischer

@UlrichDiez is your answer different to the various answers in the duplicate?

Ulrich Diez

Yes it is.

Meanwhile I posted my answer to the duplicate.

Byebye.

Ulrike Fischer

@UlrichDiez wow. I understand that you didn't want to loose that.

Ulrich Diez

13:44

I didn't want to loose that - What do you mean? :-) After all, I've stored that code on my machine... ;-)

Joseph Wright

@UlrichDiez Done

Ulrike Fischer

@UlrichDiez I meant I understand that you wanted to post it. It sometimes happens that a post gets closed when I have written a few lines and then I don't care and throw them away.

Ulrich Diez

@JosephWright Thank you. Meanwhile my request turned obsolete as I decided to submit my answer to the duplicate. The experience of the message about the question being closed popping up right at the moment when I clicked the `Post your answer"-button did confuse me for some moments. Sorry for the noise.

@UlrikeFischer This happens to me rather often. Reason: A bad habit of mine is that often I do not search for possible duplicates before starting writing an answer.

Faheem Mitha

14:35

@PhelypeOleinik So, how does one become a LaTeX team member? Do you have to ask nicely?

Ulrike Fischer

@barbarabeeton any idea what an author could want \ita to be if \eg is e.g. and \ie is i.e.?

barbara beeton

@UlrikeFischer -- I can't think of any latin abbreviation. What's the context?

Ulrike Fischer

@barbarabeeton good that you asked ;-) I just realized that it has also \fra (for french) and \deu (for german), so \ita is obvious ;-)

barbara beeton

@UlrikeFischer -- Hah! That makes sense. My immediate reaction was "italic", but there are several other well established commands for that.

Phelype Oleinik

14:58

@FaheemMitha My job title (if you call it that) in the LaTeX Team is "expl3 promotion", and I was invited in for doing that. Of course I end up doing other stuff, like writing some code (bug fixes, mostly) and messing up the repo so that @JosephWright can fix it ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik ooh job title. :)

Faheem Mitha

15:18

@PhelypeOleinik That's nice.

Alan Munn

@PhelypeOleinik And working on me to be your first success story. :)

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn ooh

Faheem Mitha

@AlanMunn Success story?

Alan Munn

@FaheemMitha @PhelypeOleinik has been working on convincing me that I should be using expl3 instead of good old fashioned 2e. If he succeeds in this, he will be a success at his expl3 promotion job. :)

Faheem Mitha

@AlanMunn Oh, I see. I tried expl3 recently. It was a little intimidating.

Alan Munn

15:32

@FaheemMitha @PhelypeOleinik The basic strategy is saying "See how much easier that is with expl3."

Faheem Mitha

@AlanMunn Saying it to who?

Alan Munn

@FaheemMitha Anyone who will listen. :) But me in particular lately.

Faheem Mitha

Hmm. Nobody has tried saying that to me.

They should. I'm very suggestible.

texdr.aft

@FaheemMitha "See how much easier that is with expl3."

Faheem Mitha

@texdr.aft You need to sound more convincing.

texdr.aft

15:35

@FaheemMitha \emph{See how much easier that is with expl3?}

Faheem Mitha

Better.

texdr.aft

Or would that be something like \doc_emphasize:n { ``See how much easier that is with expl3?'' }

I don't really know anything about expl3 to be honest

Except that things are much easier with it

Faheem Mitha

Yes, that's how religions work. It's all on faith.

Phelype Oleinik

15:58

@FaheemMitha It all started with @AlanMunn kicking and screaming:

Jun 5 at 17:27, by Alan Munn

@PhelypeOleinik You're trying to drag me kicking and screaming into latex3. :)

texdr.aft

Right now LaTeX3 is essentially just the "programming layer" right?

Phelype Oleinik

@FaheemMitha It takes you a little while to get your eyes used to all the _ and :. But once you get used to that, various programming tasks become much easier.

@texdr.aft The programming layer is expl3. LaTeX3 is more of a conceptualization of the entire process of making a document. It's supposed to take LaTeX's goal of "let the author focus on the content" to a further abstraction level and make the document designer's life easier. See this answer by someone who actually knows what he's talking about :-) tex.stackexchange.com/a/46427/134574

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Oct 31 '17 at 17:48, by Harald Hanche-Olsen

@bertieb ed, you say? ed is the editor!

texdr.aft

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ed is the original text editor; all others are just rip-offs

vim took vi took ex took ed

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik Alan in English, so only his monocle fell while he politely said curses!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

16:12

@texdr.aft Of course. Why do you think I'm quoting the original ed man page?

It clearly said, “ed is the editor, not “ed is an editor”.

Joseph Wright

@FaheemMitha Showing an interesting, doing stuff: for me, it was writing l3keys, for @UlrikeFischer taking up luaotfload (broadly), for @egreg and @PhelypeOleinik doing promotion work here

barbara beeton

@texdr.aft -- And emacs has always been emacs. (By the way, emacs has an excellent tutorial built in. I won't get involved in editor wars, since users have their own good reasons to prefer particular editors. But I wouldn't have ever learned TeX if I hadn't learned to use emacs first, since that was the editor being used by the TeX project at Stanford, and that's where I learned TeX.)

texdr.aft

@HaraldHanche-Olsen the GNU ed man page is so watered-down and weak compared to the original

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright and tagging ...

Joseph Wright

@PhelypeOleinik Oooh, ex cathedra answer ;)

@UlrikeFischer That too, true

Paulo Cereda

16:16

@JosephWright ooh das pope

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer I was generalising: I was asking a lot of questions when I wrote keys3 (before the big refactor, so we still had \def_protected:Npn or \exp_after:NN or the things with d, capital O, C, no V-type, ...)

@UlrikeFischer I also did the 'make things releasable' work: cons :(

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda der Papst …

texdr.aft

@barbarabeeton I do respect emacs greatly, all jokes aside.

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh

Joseph Wright

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I was thinking the gender felt ... wrong

Paulo Cereda

16:17

@JosephWright hmmm

Joseph Wright

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Except Pope Joan of course ;)

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda Something like "bloody bastard, ye'r trying to bloody yank me booting and screeching into latex3" (plus the monocle)?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@JosephWright die Papstin?

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik I must refrain from making comments now... :)

Joseph Wright

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Ah, right: I was thinking about the ending of the word

Paulo Cereda

16:19

@JosephWright: Loop Space just sent me the best book in Math history:

4

@CarLaTeX @UlrikeFischer ^^

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda OH MY

Paulo Cereda

Cannot wait for @DavidCarlisle remarks that this might be a recipes book...

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda /quacks in delight

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright LOL

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda Not that ducks in this chat are particularly discrete …

Paulo Cereda

16:22

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oi

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Added to my wish list

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn, @PhelypeOleinik ^^ o que eu faço... O QUE EU FAÇO?!?!!?!

@JosephWright I wanted to... but the price...

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@JosephWright CRC Press; not cheap.

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda How many kidneys do you have?

Joseph Wright

@HaraldHanche-Olsen True

Paulo Cereda

16:23

@PhelypeOleinik that really mean!

Phelype Oleinik

4 hours ago, by Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik You are not mean. :)

@PauloCereda I knew that would come in handy :-)

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik /quacks in despair

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda I'll look at end-of-financial year: I bought several books this year (use up my money before accounts get zeroed)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Jul 29 at 12:34, by Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh

Joseph Wright

16:25

I actually teach some maths courses

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Added to my wishlist, let's hope for the best...

Phelype Oleinik

Jul 3 at 9:43, by CarLaTeX

yesterday, by David Carlisle

Dec 12 '17 at 20:26, by Alan Munn

20 mins ago, by CarLaTeX

Dec 26 '14 at 0:17, by Faheem Mitha

I've got a feeling we had this discussion in this channel before. I'm getting a sense of deja vu.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Jul 3 at 9:48, by David Carlisle

yesterday, by Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle We're fast approaching the day in which all chat messages will be recycled.

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh

texdr.aft

@PhelypeOleinik Maybe I'm just not yet used to stack exchange chat, but that is one of the most confusing things I've ever seen

Harald Hanche-Olsen

16:30

@texdr.aft It's just @PhelypeOleinik quoting @CarLaTeX quoting @DavidCarlisle quoting @AlanMunn quoting @CarLaTeX quoting @FaheemMitha. What's confusing about that?

5

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen hmmmmm

Harald Hanche-Olsen

It's a common sport in these parts.

Phelype Oleinik

@HaraldHanche-Olsen @texdr.aft That and ooh counting. Welcome :-)

texdr.aft

The nested quoting is clear but every quote is from a different time

@PhelypeOleinik thank you

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PhelypeOleinik And palindrome hunting.

Faheem Mitha

16:32

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oh, more ed fanatics. We have them in U&L too, notably Jeff. Do you know him.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@texdr.aft At least they are in the right order. “yesterday” and “20 mins ago” are relative to the time of the quoting.

@FaheemMitha I may know some Jeff but perhaps not that Jeff.

Faheem Mitha

@PhelypeOleinik I see it's catching.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Well, this Jeff likes ed.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I should charge royalties.

texdr.aft

ed being the only editor available at the time explains some of the brevity/terseness of old unix code and commands, I believe

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@texdr.aft Mm. I think one of the originators of unix once said, in response to a question about what he would do different today, said something like “I would probably add a final ‘e’ to the name of the creat() system call.”

David Carlisle

@texdr.aft naturally, like:

Jul 12 at 9:43, by texdr.aft

@DavidCarlisle that's what I thought was going on, but with no context I didn't want to accidentally disrupt something significant

texdr.aft

16:46

@HaraldHanche-Olsen consider too that pre ansi c only considered the first eight characters of an identifier to be significant. but that does not explain creat of course

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda you should pay more attention to what @egreg tells you:

Jan 8 '13 at 13:35, by egreg

@PauloCereda Here's a book for you! http://www.amazon.com/Discrete-Mathematics-Ducks-sarah-marie-belcastro/dp/1466504994/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357652050&sr=8-1&keywords=discrete+mathematics+with+ducks

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh first edition! <3

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda different duck (the first one got eaten)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle you are mean

David Carlisle

8 hours ago, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda I know:-)

Paulo Cereda

16:48

@DavidCarlisle oh

Harald Hanche-Olsen

22 mins ago, by Harald Hanche-Olsen

Jul 3 at 9:48, by David Carlisle

yesterday, by Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle We're fast approaching the day in which all chat messages will be recycled.

texdr.aft

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I can see this as meaning "22 mins ago, Harald Hanche-Olsen quoted a message from Jul 3 at 9:48 by David Carlisle, which quoted Alan Munn's post from yesterday" (which makes no sense) or "22 mins ago, Harald Hanche-Olsen quoted a post by Alan Munn from yesterday, which quoted a post from Jul 3 by David Carlisle". If it's one of those it's surely the latter? Or have I got it all wrong

David Carlisle

@texdr.aft the post by Alan was on 2nd July so it shows as Yesterday when I first quoted it on the 3rd and stays that way in quotes of quotes

texdr.aft

@DavidCarlisle OH. Thank you.

That explains everything

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@texdr.aft ooh, a universal explanation!

David Carlisle

16:55

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Brexit solved

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle Well, that was easy. What's next? Peace in the Middle East?

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh

texdr.aft

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes. It explains literally everything about everything. It's amazing that people hadn't figured this out until now

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle The moral of that story? Always use full dates. You never know when someone will recycle.

texdr.aft

@FaheemMitha Maybe show the absolute date after the relative date

Faheem Mitha

17:03

Recycled electrons. The ultimate in Green.

@texdr.aft Sounds cluttery.

texdr.aft

@FaheemMitha It wouldn't look very good. That's true

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@texdr.aft It's not that easy to guess.

texdr.aft

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I feel silly now

Faheem Mitha

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oh, right.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Odd, my response to @texdr.aft shows up before the message I responded to! Do others see that too?

texdr.aft

17:09

Yes

Paulo Cereda

@FaheemMitha mouseover the relative date shows the actual date. :)

Faheem Mitha

Odd, I see a circular loop in the references.

Hmm, something is a bit screwy here.

Paulo Cereda

@PauloCereda This message points to itself.

@FaheemMitha ^^ see :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda Can you use it to implement the Y combinator?

texdr.aft

@PauloCereda If I reply to this message

then... well that's interesting

@HaraldHanche-Olsen There's potential for a lot here

"StackExchange chat is turing complete"

Alan Munn

17:26

So much linguistics implicit in this discussion. Multiple embeddings, recursion and deixis.

texdr.aft

We can implement linked lists trivially so i suppose with a lot of coordination we could create a tree of some kind

@AlanMunn Linguistic recursion is cool

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda Yay!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Hmm … this message is a reply to the message below.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen This message is a reply to my previous message.

Alan Munn

@texdr.aft ^^^

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda I took your idea and ran with it. ↑↑↑

texdr.aft

17:40

@AlanMunn Syntax diagrams are always interesting. Thank you for that

@HaraldHanche-Olsen If only a message could actually "do" anything

texdr.aft

17:58

@AlanMunn Is there a known "recursion limit" for English?

I know that some say that Piraha (sorry I can't type diacritics) doesn't have recursion at all

Alan Munn

@texdr.aft It depends what you mean by that. There's certainly no upper limit on sentences of the sort in the tree I posted. Of course our ability to process them is likely constrained by memory constraints. And we are really bad with so-called centre embedding structures: The cat the dog chased bit the rat is easy to process, but The rat the cat the dog chased bit died is pretty much impossible.

@texdr.aft The claim about Pirahã is most likely false. (I can point you to a reference, but the discussion gets very technical though.)

texdr.aft

@AlanMunn I am actually interested in that reference, if you don't mind.

I haven't looked into syntax in much depth honestly. I've been too focused on philology, though there are some interesting shifts in syntax that have happened in the Western Romance languages (e.g. how the position of clitics when used with verbs in the future tense in Spanish and Portuguese changed)

Alan Munn

18:25

@article{NevinsPesetskyRodrigues2009evidence,
Author = {Nevins, Andrew and Pesetsky, David and Rodrigues, Cilene},
Journal = {Language},
Number = {3},
Pages = {671--681},
Title = {Evidence and argumentation: A reply to Everett (2009)},
Volume = {85},
Year = {2009}}

@article{NevinsPesetskyRodrigues2009reassessment,
Author = {Nevins, Andrew and Pesetsky, David and Rodrigues, Cilene},
Journal = {Language},
Number = {2},
Pages = {355--404},
Title = {Pirahã exceptionality: A reassessment},
Volume = {85},

texdr.aft

@AlanMunn Thank you very much

Faheem Mitha

19:18

I accidentally came across this record of 2017 TUG elections, which makes interesting reading. Are these the most recent elections?

Joseph Wright

@FaheemMitha We had one last year

Faheem Mitha

@JosephWright Oh. Yes, I see the record.

Faheem Mitha

19:35

An old and basic question, but not one with many answers -> tex.stackexchange.com/q/40775/3406

Peter Grill

Anyone going to be in Palo Alto for Tug2019?

Faheem Mitha

Personally, I hit tab in my AUCTeX a lot, and hope for the best.

Joseph Wright

@PeterGrill From the LaTeX team, I know of only Frank and Chris

Peter Grill

@JosephWright Is Chris on TeX.SE?

Joseph Wright

@PeterGrill ER ... o

@PeterGrill No

@PeterGrill Chris does concepts, not coding

Peter Grill

19:39

@JosephWright: Thanks. Will try to locate them and say hi.

barbara beeton

@PeterGrill -- I'm packing my bags.

Peter Grill

@barbarabeeton Awesome. But, I think you still have some time to pack! Looking forward to meeting you.

texdr.aft

@FaheemMitha I find the PGF/TikZ manual to be a good example of nice LaTeX code

Faheem Mitha

@texdr.aft You mean the bits that are typeset as part of the code?

BTW, how are your VCS efforts coming along?

texdr.aft

@FaheemMitha Both that and the behind-the-scenes macros

Faheem Mitha

19:46

@texdr.aft You mean the source code?

texdr.aft

@FaheemMitha I have started a repository in git (since I have it already installed)

@FaheemMitha yes

Faheem Mitha

I've always felt too daunted to look at it.

@texdr.aft Mercurial is also easy to install. Unless you hare a Windows user. In which case I don't know.

texdr.aft

@FaheemMitha I'm going to try them both. And I use Linux (hence git's already being installed...)

Faheem Mitha

@texdr.aft Which distribution?

Debian is a bit out of date, and therefore so is Ubuntu.

Joseph Wright

@FaheemMitha Easy

Faheem Mitha

19:50

Unstable currently has 4.9, but 5.1 was released today.

Buster has 4.8.2, which is quite old.

You generally want the most recent version. Ditto for Evolve.

texdr.aft

I actually am quite behind in terms of updating, but that's mostly because I'm running Linux on a chromebook and updating is tricky

Faheem Mitha

@texdr.aft Distribution?

texdr.aft

@FaheemMitha Ubuntu

Faheem Mitha

@texdr.aft Ok.

texdr.aft

Also for a good example of Plain TeX source, the source of the TeXbook is provided by Knuth as an example of well-formed TeX code (ctan.org/pkg/texbook?lang=en)

Skillmon

21:08

@texdr.aft switch to a rolling release distro. No version updates -> no big reinstalls.

texdr.aft

@Skillmon I honestly don't know if that's possible with this setup.

Skillmon

@texdr.aft I honestly don't know either, because I don't know your setup :)

texdr.aft

And I'm not just trying to get out of updating; it's a matter of whether it can be done at all

Skillmon

@texdr.aft do you have problems with installing stuff in general?

texdr.aft

@Skillmon It's Ubuntu running on a chromebook via "crouton". It and chrome os run simultaneously (there's no dual-booting or anything).

@Skillmon No real problems with installing applications (except out-of-datedness)

Paulo Cereda

21:13

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh

Skillmon

@texdr.aft should be possible to install Arch Linux with crouton, you'll almost always be up to date, but Arch is way harder to setup than Ubuntu.

texdr.aft

@Skillmon I ran Arch for a while some time ago, so I can handle it, but I'd want to wait until I don't have anything to do before getting that set up

Although I appreciate the suggestion. I actually wasn't aware that Arch was installable with crouton.

Skillmon

@texdr.aft then it's manual compiling the software you need to be up to date.

@texdr.aft wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Chrome_OS_devices

@texdr.aft the Wiki has some information (but I'm not sure how stable/well tested that is), but that one doesn't use Arch

@texdr.aft a crouton fork that seems to be more experimental and incorporates Arch: github.com/drinkcat/chroagh

@texdr.aft there is a pull request in crouton's github for Arch support: github.com/dnschneid/crouton/pull/1201

David Carlisle

@texdr.aft do you use the chrome os for much? I just acquired a chromebook for the first time the other day, I'm minded to leave it as chrome os just to see whether it's useful..

texdr.aft

@DavidCarlisle I don't use it at all

It's very locked-down without developer mode enabled, and even then it doesn't allow for much

David Carlisle

21:29

@texdr.aft it does seem mostly geared to checking gmail:-) I'll see how I get on, it's only got 16gb storage so not really a lot of space for multiple os I guess

Skillmon

@texdr.aft why not wiping it and install ordinary Linux?

Alan Munn

@Skillmon Croutons? Are you making duck soup?

texdr.aft

@Skillmon Because of the (admittedly unlikely) possibility of damage mainly. I'd just rather play it safe

Skillmon

@AlanMunn no, my brother made pizza soup today (does this scare our fellow Italians?)

Alan Munn

@Skillmon That scares even me. :)

Skillmon

21:32

@AlanMunn don't worry, it was without any pineapple.

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn stir in a bit of nutella and it'll be lovely, even @CarLaTeX would approve

egreg

21:45

@Skillmon Pizza soup?

Alan Munn

@egreg It seems to me that these two words should never reside in the same phrase.

2

egreg

@AlanMunn Indeed!

Alan Munn

@egreg Click at your own risk.

@egreg Unfortunately Canadians aren't immune from this scourge.

Skillmon

@egreg it's just a soup with cheese, tomato sauce, mushrooms, minced meat, sweet pepper, corn, etc.

@egreg tastes good, unfortunately the name is evil

egreg

@Skillmon Not really attractive.

Skillmon

21:59

@egreg it's pineapple free.

Joseph Wright

22:11

@AlanMunn Thanks

Alan Munn

@JosephWright No problem. I've been flagging but I suspect that's not helpful any longer.

barbara beeton

22:41

@AlanMunn -- This seems to get some of its inspiration from French onion soup, with the crouton and cheese on top.

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton I guess we would call that Flammkuchen soup. :)

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- I suppose you've seen this: Our Language Is Evolving, 'Because Internet'. I fear I'm in the "older" crowd; I still insist on punctuation, and tend to interpret messages literally.

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton Yes, I know Gretchen as well. I think it's a good book (although I haven't read it yet). I'm also a punctuator.

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