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12:41 AM
@UlrikeFischer Ok. You can also look at the docutils-test-dev branch, there I tried to automatically select rst2man or rst2man.py depending on what is provided by the system. I do not know how this behaves on Windows though because it uses POSIX shell features.
 
 
7 hours later…
8:08 AM
@DavidCarlisle A latex-dev bug :)
 
8:20 AM
@JosephWright yes I remember thinking about lowercase when we started with some of these changes but it seems to have slipped through, I believe you have some more robust lowercasing macros we could use if....
 
@DavidCarlisle Secret plan FTW
 
@JosephWright at least one user ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer grumpy embedfile users this morning:-)
@JosephWright Frank's response was interesting:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I told him where to find the issue ;-) I will answer later.
 
9:09 AM
@JosephWright ooh
 
 
2 hours later…
11:11 AM
talk on opentype variant fonts, math layout at around 42 minutes in:-) youtube.com/watch?v=MuuAmG_qer8
 
@MarcelKr├╝ger that doesn't work. it returns
Der Befehl ""$(command -v rst2man || command -v rst2man.py)"" ist entweder falsch geschrieben oder
How does one at best detect windows in lua?
 
11:46 AM
@UlrikeFischer l3build should have that detected already
@UlrikeFischer l3build upload uses if os_type == "windows" then where os_type is os.type
 
12:13 PM
@DavidCarlisle thanks will try. Do one write "how to typeset math" or "how to typeset maths"?
 
12:31 PM
@UlrikeFischer British English: maths, N. American English: math
 
@UlrikeFischer as Alan said maths is normal in the UK, but I use math more and more in an international setting as "maths" confuses the Americans.
 
@DavidCarlisle ;-).
 
1:06 PM
@JosephWright between us, keeping ctan busy:-)
 
1:58 PM
@UlrikeFischer I reported the issue that affected hyperref doc, although it's currently flagged as spam :-) puszcza.gnu.org.ua/bugs/index.php?437
 
@DavidCarlisle I don't understand their bug reporting system ;-) For some reason I get mails from tex4ht bugs but I can't answer. If I want to comment I write Michal a mail.
 
@UlrikeFischer it said i couldn't submit a bug as I wasn't logged in, I was wondering if it was worth setting up an account but clicked "login" just in case and apparently firefox had my login and password and I have been a user since 2016, I have no idea why I opened it before:-)
 
2:40 PM
Bad user interface 101: Users who you've already added to your group don't show up in searches to add new users.
 
3:16 PM
@AlanMunn And Australians! I'll never get used to math.
 
@DavidPurton Yes, I supposed so, but I wasn't sure.
 
@DavidPurton ashes series finally getting started...
 
@DavidCarlisle Bit late for you though ;). Perhaps you can salvage the series. But we should have won the third test!
 
 
3 hours later…
6:06 PM
If I want to return multiple values from a Lua require command, do I need to stuff things into a table? The obvious foo, bar = require... does not work. Only the first is returned.
 
@FaheemMitha seems that way
 
6:38 PM
@DavidCarlisle Ok, thank you.
 
7:17 PM
@FaheemMitha two ways:
[paulo@satyagraha ~] $ cat a.lua
return { 1, 2 }
[paulo@satyagraha ~] $ cat b.lua
local a, b = unpack(require('a'))
print(a, b)
or
[paulo@satyagraha ~] $ cat c.lua
return function() return 1, 2 end
[paulo@satyagraha ~] $ cat d.lua
local a, b = require('c')()
print(a, b)
 
@PauloCereda oh you snuck in an unpack:-)
 
@PauloCereda Thank you.
Probably the first version.
I had in mind something more elaborate, but I'll give this a try.
 
@DavidCarlisle we ducks are good at programming languages. :)
@FaheemMitha been there, done that. :)
 
@PauloCereda Hmm?
 
@FaheemMitha I had to deal with this scenario before.
 
7:32 PM
@PauloCereda but you hide it well
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh
 
@PauloCereda Ah
@PauloCereda You forgot to tell David that he's mean.
 
@FaheemMitha I used Lua in my thesis. :)
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
@FaheemMitha oopsie
 
@PauloCereda LuaTeX, or just Lua?
 
@FaheemMitha Lua, I implemented stuff.
 
7:38 PM
Jun 17 '18 at 15:39, by Alan Munn
@PauloCereda You are mean.
@PauloCereda did it work?
 
@DavidCarlisle I am on mobile, could you please add the answer in which I tell myself I am not mean?
@DavidCarlisle against all odds, it did!
 
@PauloCereda I could but instead I'll repost this:
Jun 17 '18 at 15:39, by Alan Munn
@PauloCereda You are mean.
 
@DavidCarlisle oh
 
Someone stole our local toilet :(
 
@PauloCereda Why Lua?
 
7:48 PM
@DavidCarlisle ? what is a "local toilet"?
 
@FaheemMitha it was very expressive to represent the concepts I had in the thesis in a concise way.
 
@PauloCereda Oh. Most people would prefer something like Python. I would myself.
 
@UlrikeFischer a toilet that is not that far away.
@FaheemMitha Brazilians stick together:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I don't see how that is relevant.
 
@UlrikeFischer This was quite a posh toilet: bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-49700620
 
7:52 PM
@FaheemMitha having to build things from a very basic ground was interesting, from both theoretical and practical perspectives.
@DavidCarlisle that too. :)
 
@DavidCarlisle oh a golden one ;-)
 
@PauloCereda Also, takes a long time. Also, bugs.
 
@FaheemMitha not at all. And bugs are present in every nontrivial program.
 
@PauloCereda They are. But there are less bugs in programs that are widely used.
And the bugs are usually less serious.
 
@FaheemMitha If you are doing low level coding and not needing python's collections of libraries I can't see why you would lose much if you chose lua over python
 
7:55 PM
If it's just you vs the universe, personally, I like the universe's chances.
 
@FaheemMitha Lua is widely used (especially by the gaming industry)
 
@DavidCarlisle Summarised above.
@DavidCarlisle Lua, yes. Your custom code, no.
 
@FaheemMitha that's why you should use windows not a minority os like debian?
2
 
@DavidCarlisle Um, what?
 
@FaheemMitha for a thesis novel work is more or less the point.
 
7:56 PM
@DavidCarlisle Sure. But it's also handy to have libraries.
 
@FaheemMitha That depends on the the subject.
 
@DavidCarlisle exactly. I found myself speechless at how tables are expressive. I wasn't in need of any other structure...
 
Good evening everybody
 
8:22 PM
@PauloCereda I tried your approach with functions instead of integers, but it doesn't work, but I'm not clear why. I.e.
local function foo ()
   return "foo"
end

local function bar ()
   return "bar"
end

x={foo, bar}
unpack(x)
 
@FaheemMitha you want a,b = unpack(x) I would have thought?
@FaheemMitha vv
local function foo ()
   return "foo"
end

local function bar ()
   return "bar"
end

x={foo, bar}
a,b=unpack(x)

print (b())
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I see.
Ok, my actual code is (first local1.lua):
local function foo ()
   return "foo"
end

local function bar ()
   return "bar"
end

return {foo, bar}
local2.lua is:
x,y = unpack(require('local1'))
print(x())
print(y())
error is:
bad argument #1 to 'unpack' (table expected, got function)
 
@FaheemMitha I get:
$ texlua local2.lua
foo
bar
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh
 
@FaheemMitha I don't see how you can get a function object from the require() did you load the file you expected?
 
8:35 PM
@DavidCarlisle I'm checking. I'm trying it from the command line and getting weird errors, so I must be doing something stupid.
(I normally use Emacs.)
 
@FaheemMitha as does @PauloCereda
 
Ok, it's working from the command line for 5.2, but not for 5.3.
5.3 doesn't recognize unpack. I think it's in a module.
 
@FaheemMitha the texlua I used would be 5.3
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I realise that.
Does it work for you with plain lua5.3?
 
@FaheemMitha yes just tried it:
Lua 5.3.5  Copyright (C) 1994-2018 Lua.org, PUC-Rio
$ lua local2.lua
foo
bar
 
8:39 PM
@DavidCarlisle Huh. Works for me with texlua, but not with Lua 5.3.
table.unpack works for everything, fortunately.
 
@FaheemMitha odd
 
@FaheemMitha oh that implies it should work in 5.3 but need table.unpack in 5.2 (which matches what I see)
 
@DavidCarlisle Just unpack was working for me in Lua 5.2 and texlua, but not 5.3.
 
it works for me both with texlua from texlive 2019 (lua 5.3) and 2018 (lua 5.2), I don't have a standalone lua.
 
8:49 PM
Still erroring out inside Emacs.
My guess that 5.2 aliased unpack to table.unpack, but in 5.3 they removed it.
 
@FaheemMitha that isn't what I see, and isn't what that link you gave said
 
@DavidCarlisle That answer just said:
> In Lua 5.2, unpack was moved to table.unpack.
It doesn't say that unpack no longer works in 5.2
 
@FaheemMitha yes the english grammar was a bit suspect but the main point is that the code as written (just with unpack) works in 5.3
 
@DavidCarlisle Hmm. Odd. I'm running Lua 5.2.4 and Lua 5.3.3.
@DavidCarlisle What version of 5.3 do you have?
 
Lua 5.3.5 Copyright (C) 1994-2018 Lua.org, PUC-Rio
 
8:56 PM
@FaheemMitha but your error message doesn't say that unpack doesn't work but that it got a wrong argument. Are you sure that your files are looking as you are saying? In lua 5.2. I can reproduce your error if I do return foo, bar instead of return {foo, bar}
 
@UlrikeFischer That's inside Emacs, not on the command line.
On the command line I get expected behavior, modulo the unpack issue.
The Emacs error is completely incomprehensible.
 
unpack = unpack or table.unpack
 
@FaheemMitha emacs can't really affect this (unless you have a different path)
 
Oh, I think I know what the problem is. The REPL got "contaminated."
 
This might fix. :)
 
8:58 PM
Exiting and trying again.
 
@PauloCereda yes sure but question was why @FaheemMitha is getting a different initial state
 
@DavidCarlisle dragons
 
@FaheemMitha the emacs error is the bad argument #1 to 'unpack' (table expected, got function) ? Are you sure that in emacs the same files are used?
 
Yes, that was the problem.
@UlrikeFischer Yes, I was using the same files. The REPL seemed to be caching values for some reason.
 
@DavidCarlisle oi
 
9:00 PM
What is the REPL?
 
@UlrikeFischer Sorry, I meant the Lua interpreter.
Anyway, I exited the Emacs session and restarted.
I wasn't using the Emacs server in this case, so things are now working normally in Emacs. Not sure what happened.
A waste of time, but what's new?
 
@DavidCarlisle your tex4ht bug report just came through ...
 
@UlrikeFischer well, fix it then!
 
they are just singing "Britons never shall be knaves".
 
@UlrikeFischer sung by an American, and conducted by an EU citizen:-)
 
9:14 PM
@UlrikeFischer Who are?
 
@FaheemMitha last night of proms, so the people in the royal albert hall
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah, yes. I thought it was "slaves". Are they trying to be topical?
 
@FaheemMitha it is, but it probably went through a translation and back:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle it went through the devious mind of my husband ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer audience being a sea of EU flags must cheer up our prime minister:-)
 
9:17 PM
I think "knaves" definitely fits the current U.K. administration.
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh yes
 
Interesting times.
 
@DavidCarlisle Weren't tempted to do \let \MakeTextUppercase \tl_upper_case:n ;)
 
@JosephWright wait for the secret plan
 
All those secrets must be exhausting.
 
9:24 PM
@FaheemMitha only one:-)
 

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