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4:32 AM
@marmot done tex.stackexchange.com/a/498028/101651! With also a correction in the subtables alignment. Could you please check if it's all correct (I did it on my smartphone, since I'm not at home and my hotel doesn't have the Wi-Fi in the rooms) thank you!
@AlanMunn Grazie! Looks great to me. (I gave +1 when I saw the answer.)
4:46 AM
@marmot Why is a marmot speaking to me in Italian? @CarLaTeX :)
@AlanMunn Because it is late and I was confusing you with @CarLaTeX. Scusi!
@AlanMunn I think the message was directed to me :)
@marmot Thanks :)
3 hours later…
7:51 AM
@CarLaTeX You did that on your phone? I am impressed. I know it’s technically feasible, but I lack the patience to work on such things without a proper screen and keyboard.
8:24 AM
@JosephWright the uncompress key in tagpdf is currently broken as it still uses \driver_pdf_objects_disable:. But as the master on github and the ctan version differ currently quite a bit regarding the backend code, that's not so easy to correct. Do you think the code and the documentation is in a state that we could update ctan?
8:42 AM
If I'm trying to combine a tabular format with an itemized list, to start with, is it better to have one table with itemization inside, or one table for each itemized entry?
@FaheemMitha use p type columns and nest the itemize in those, load enumitem to adjust the left skip of the itemize.
@FaheemMitha depending on the nesting order they produce completely different results and have different implied meaning, so it depends what you want the text to mean
@UlrikeFischer I'm happy to do a release: it was more concerns about wanting all of the hook stuff in
@UlrikeFischer One for the meeting I guess
@Skillmon Sounds like a plan, assuming that's doable. You don't happen to have an example on hand, do you? And I'm already using enumitem, of course.
@DavidCarlisle I'm not sure what different meaning would be implied. It's just an itemized list of tables.
@FaheemMitha an itemized list of tables is a different thing to a table of itemized lists.
8:57 AM
@DavidCarlisle From a typographical point of view, certainly.
Just to be clear, the difference would be minor in practice.
If it was one table, it would be sort of subdivided into tabular sections, corresponding to different list items.
@FaheemMitha from every point of view it seems to me do you want the top or bottom thing?
@DavidCarlisle Nice use of picture!
Top is a single table, that contains two itemized lists, below is a single itemized list that has a table in each of its three items
@mickep I am a natural artist and typographer, as you observe.
@DavidCarlisle Very artistic.
It doesn't make much difference to me, except that I want the columns to line up correctly, and I want the enumerate numbering (not itemize, sorry) to come at the beginning of each table, not in the middle, for example.
@FaheemMitha in the top one the list are unrelated, so if they were enumerate not itemize, they would both start from 1, in the second one the tables are unrelated so there is no alignment the items in the tables.
9:04 AM
@FaheemMitha May I ask what it is that you are trying to typeset? (Not technically, but what content)
@mickep It's a legal document.
Just trying to mimic the layout. Arguably not worth the effort, but I tend to be a bit OCD.
@DavidCarlisle Aligning the tables would be nice.
@FaheemMitha so your layout is more like the bottom one in my drawing? (you still haven't said and I honestly can not guess)
@DavidCarlisle I suppose it is, yes. Though the two don't seem that different to me. In the first case, the tables would be a bit further out, I guess. And the alignment wouldn't be consistent?
@FaheemMitha Do you have an image available of what you try to mimic? (It is probably easier to discuss then what to do.)
@FaheemMitha I give up. you clearly have some content in mind but I can't really imagine many things that could easily be flowed into both those layouts so where there was a choice of the two.
9:10 AM
@mickep I'd have to mock something up. But I guess I could.
@DavidCarlisle It still doesn't seem that different to me. In the first drawing, you've drawn the first column as a box type thing, but you could make that look like the second drawing quite easily, I imagine. In any case, I suppose there's not much discussing it without an actual example.
For the sake of discussion, is it actually possible to nest an enumerate environment inside a tabular format?
Something in the ballpark of this question would probably work.
Q: How to use itemize in Table environment

superhuman1314I want to create a table like the picture below, and i wish to itemize the lamba_1 > lamba_2 > 0 using 'item style', which is the cell of each categories. Can someone help me?

I thought Werner's approach was quite original. Faking an enumerate environment.
@JosephWright if we do a release, we should coordinate. The code in tagpdf is easy to adjust, but the documentation doesn't compile, so I probably need a few days. And will \pdf_uncompress: be then available?
@UlrikeFischer We'll have to think about l3pdf: it's currently not in the release part of the tree
9:50 AM
@UlrikeFischer Move to l3experimental?
@JosephWright would be fine with me. \pdf_uncompress: is really useful ;-). I even remember the name without looking it up.
@UlrikeFischer I'll make sure we talk about it at the meeting then
@JosephWright I will be there.
10:14 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen With the app VerbTeX, it's quite convenient
5 hours later…
3:11 PM
This room is locked due to inactivity.
@PauloCereda 42 days later…
3:25 PM
@PhelypeOleinik ooh
3:44 PM
@UlrikeFischer Do you need l3pdf to go straight into l3kernel or should I put it into l3experimental?
@DavidCarlisle, @egreg Comments on ^^^ welcome
@UlrikeFischer I'm thinking that adding it as a separate package just makes life more tricky longer-term
@JosephWright The documentation is still a bit esoteric. A separate package is also my idea.
@JosephWright no it doesn't need to be in l3kernel. As long as it is in texlive I can load it (as I did with l3str_convert for some time). I think a separate package is okay as long as it is still (probably) subject to substantial changes.
@egreg, @UlrikeFischer Cool: that's what I'd done (and i think matches the current 'policy')
@UlrikeFischer My plan is to upload to CTAN later today and to give them a note asking that they wait for your tagpdf upload before installing
4:04 PM
@JosephWright fine. I'm just looking how much I need to do, but I'm away in the evening so can't really code (but I made a draft for the slides ...).
@HaraldHanche-Olsen that's interesting to hear
@JosephWright I have a key "compresslevel" and there is now now expl3 function for it. I think I will simply drop it, I don't think it is usefull, one only need uncompress, what do you think?
@marmot thank you. that was perfect :)
@UlrikeFischer Sounds good to me: it's basically on/off at the user level
@UlrikeFischer Building for CTAN now
@JosephWright are you using the expl3 code from master?
4:17 PM
@UlrikeFischer Yes: have a couple of failures I need to check ...
@JosephWright my documentation compiled at the first try. I wonder what is wrong - I was expecting lots of errors ;-).
4:45 PM
> Linux Usage on Azure Has Surpassed Windows, Microsoft Developer Reveals
4:58 PM
Decision made: In two days I go to order my home organ. Everybody's welcome to the organ opening party in September! @barbarabeeton @PauloCereda
@yo' which model? :)
Johannus Studio 150 (black)
@yo' you're living in Czechia, if I remember correctly?
@Skillmon indeed, in the capital
@yo' that's not far from where I'm living... That's an electrical organ, isn't it? How good are the sounds of these?
5:05 PM
The party will certainly include a chocolate tart made with the help of barbara's measurement kit, some nice Scotch, and cachaça from a local distillery in Analândia!
@Skillmon indeed electrical. Johannus is of the better ones. Many churches now get these, however, mostly the low-end ones (which I'm not quite satisfied with). And I'm gonna try a similar model from Johannus in 2 days before ordering.
@PauloCereda @barbarabeeton ^^ (see 2 msgs up)
5:18 PM
@yo' <3
@yo' beautiful organ!
@PauloCereda I don't buy unbeautiful things :)
@yo' :D
5:34 PM
@PauloCereda Er ... cool ?
@JosephWright yes :)
@PauloCereda they play the 1812 overture in Boston every year on independence day at the end of the fireworks. I haven't been in years, but it was always so cool and fitting.
@StrongBad ooh I like it
@JosephWright The debug branch isn't working right now, is it?
5:49 PM
@StrongBad -- at the end, the bells are the church bells from the neighborhood. I don't know what they do for the cannons. (Usually, at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, there is a similar concert, and there is a Marine contingent that fires off 55mm howitzers. My sister, many years ago, watched as the glowing wadding crossed in front of an airplane landing at National airport. Poor pilot!)
@yo' -- It will be a delightful party, I'm sure. Sadly, I don't think we can make it. Nonetheless, have a blast!
Happy Canada day!
@barbarabeeton they do howitzers in Boston also: youtube.com/watch?v=DtXUj-09PME. This will be my 2nd year in DC for the 4th, but I couldn't hear the music the first time I went. Given the politicization of the event this year, I don't think I will be going to the mall.
@JosephWright ^^
Best comment: The conductor didn't say anything about Monty Python, but look at the facial expressions of the band, like Ms Clarinet just to his right. They know.
@StrongBad -- If I were in Washington this year, I certainly would boycott the mall.
@barbarabeeton it's understandable. And thanks!
6:00 PM
@PauloCereda -- That's a heck of a lot of gold braid!
@barbarabeeton it's fancy. :)
@barbarabeeton it is even worse than that. They use metro ridership numbers in the estimates of the crowd size, so we even try and stay off of the metro during events we don't support (not that it stops him from lying about the numbers).
@StrongBad -- With any luck, someone in one of the military flyovers will have a camera and take a photo that will show how many spectators are (not) there. It's a real pity. The Lincoln Memorial shouldn't be sullied by politics.
6:24 PM
@PauloCereda -- I hear that you're expecting a real cold spell (probably < 10C) later this week. Get your warm clothes ready.
@barbarabeeton yes, it's very cold for us! I got an extra blanket and a warm jacket. :)
What would be the correct way to setup a macro in L3, that's argument pattern should be something like #1 : #2 \q_nil with the colon of category other?
@Skillmon \use:x { \cs_new_protected:Npn \foo:w ##1 \c_colon_str ##2 \exp_not:N \q_nil } { #1 and #2 }
@PhelypeOleinik I'll take a look
@JosephWright that seems way better than what I had in mind, thank you very much (was working with \char_generate:nn and a temporary macro...)
6:52 PM
@JosephWright one would have to protect the \foo:w with \exp_not:N, though :)
7:15 PM
@JosephWright I did try l3build check in the root directory and a bunch of tests failed. Now that I found the logs, it seems that the debug code tries to insert \__kernel_chk_var_exist:N #2 in \clist_concat:NNN, which doesn't contain a #2...
@JosephWright I'm writing something
@PhelypeOleinik Cool: I'm in the middle of some action points ...
@JosephWright Action points?
@PhelypeOleinik Release of expl3 coming up
@PhelypeOleinik Monday is team meeting day ;)
@JosephWright Oh, nice :-)
@PhelypeOleinik ACTION: Joseph :)
7:17 PM
@JosephWright Ooohh
@PhelypeOleinik ooh
@PauloCereda /ooh-counter
@JosephWright we Brazilians and ducks and Brazilian ducks ooh frequently. :)
@PhelypeOleinik ooh a counter
@PauloCereda I'm confused :-)
@PhelypeOleinik oh no
/quacks in despair
7:22 PM
@PauloCereda don't be desperate, stressed duck doesn't taste as good!
@Skillmon aw <3
Oh wait...
Oh no
@PauloCereda I'm despaired enough for both of us, have to prepare a short presentation for Friday, only 4 minutes, and I have no idea what to tell in four minutes except for "Hi, my name is Jonathan, and today I'm going to talk about <insert incredibly complicated title here>. Thanks for your attention! <the end>"
@Skillmon oh /hugs
@PauloCereda best of all: The presentation is not related to any project of mine, doesn't affect anything else, but I get a mark on it. Most useless presentation I'll hold my entire life.
@Skillmon oh no
7:33 PM
Good evening to all users into chat. Just a curiosity
A: align multiple equations without amsmath package

SebastianoYou can use \usepackage{IEEEtrantools} to align multiple equations without to use amsmath package. \documentclass[a4paper,12pt]{article} \usepackage{IEEEtrantools} \begin{document} \begin{IEEEeqnarray}{lCr} a & = b \label{eq1} \\ c & = d \label{eq2} \end{IEEEeqnarray} \end{document}

For this question there is another answer.
  a & = b \label{eq1} \\
  c & = d \label{eq2}
Is it my impression but the first column is misaligned?
@Sebastiano amsmath's align has the same output... I think the bounding box of the a is a little wider to the right.
@Sebastiano Remember that the environment aligns the left side to the right, so your measurement should be to the right of a and c.
@Sebastiano You are telling the environment to use = as alignment point, it's the correct output.
@PhelypeOleinik ^^ spot on
I is getting gooder at my TeX skillz. :)
@PauloCereda And I don't even have my good glasses on :D
@PhelypeOleinik LOL
@PauloCereda (The truth is I don't have good glasses right now Ç_Ç)
7:44 PM
@PhelypeOleinik oh no
@PhelypeOleinik I have no choice: either I use good glasses or I will constantly hit stuff, walls mainly. :)
@PauloCereda Me too. The ones I have right now are probably 1-2 degrees off. I'll get better ones in a few weeks
@PauloCereda Me using the computer is almost the same as the old lady from that meme :P
@PhelypeOleinik Ouch, take care. In my case, I thought my last glasses were off. It happened that the prescription remains the same, but a lot of the chemicals they put in the lens already dissipated.
@PhelypeOleinik LOL
@PauloCereda LOL
@PauloCereda Exactly!
7:59 PM
@PhelypeOleinik @PauloCereda Thank you very much for your details :-) My best regards.
@StefanKottwitz I'm proud to say that my Bachelor's thesis only had one (unspotable) underfull hbox warning, on the title page.
@Skillmon Probably just a manually made line ending that is fine on a manually made title page.
@StefanKottwitz nope, in a tiny citation advice on the title page in the lower left corner, no \\ .
@StefanKottwitz just a title consisting of too many too long words that couldn't get line broken well in that particular advice :)
@Skillmon Soundslikeagermanword.
8:09 PM
@StefanKottwitz the two words being problematic in that case were Hauptkomponentenanalyse and merkmalsbasiert
@StefanKottwitz not that long, but too long for that line.
@Skillmon So you are a Hauptkomponentenanalysenbachelorarbeitverfasser! Cool!
Is that "Filter" button on the main page new? It isn't nicely coloured for me -.-
@Skillmon My 189 page Calculus lecture notes have none at all. ;-)
@egreg my thesis was only 85 pages long and had one. I guess you really earned those 751,797 reputation :)
8:36 PM
@Skillmon not a single underfull hbox warning in my thesis.
@DavidCarlisle See email
@JosephWright sigh
@DavidCarlisle :)
8:51 PM
@DavidCarlisle then why are all your questions about underfull hboxes?
@HaraldHanche-Olsen actually they are all about overfull boxes I think you misread them.
I never misread any of your questions.
Jun 6 '18 at 15:36, by Alan Munn
@DavidCarlisle You're getting such a lot of mileage out of presupposition failure these days.
9:41 PM
@DavidCarlisle We're fast approaching the day in which all chat messages will be recycled.
Dec 12 '17 at 20:26, by Alan Munn
20 mins ago, by CarLaTeX
Dec 26 '14 at 0:17, by Faheem Mitha
I've got a feeling we had this discussion in this channel before. I'm getting a sense of deja vu.
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@AlanMunn oh no
@PauloCereda 6228
10:52 PM
@PauloCereda or cats.
@PauloCereda @barbarabeeton still no snow though. You really should visit us "up north" (from your POV) in the winter (summer from your POV) season.
@AlanMunn we could then communicate by the 8-digit message codes. How cool!

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