English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

3:00 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 Okay, have fun colouring egg or buying coloured eggs, or buy tiny bank tellers—whatever you do with Easter.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

We sure will be coloring ourselves. We are not the lazy kind of people.

Cerberus

Oh dear. Body paint?

Or just regular paint?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Mud.

And some bog water.

Cerberus

Mud. Well, that is a creative colour spectrum.

Do post pictures!

And include your cat, if you have one.

Cats love mud.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Actually the traditional way to color eggs is by cooking them with onion peels, so yeah, the color spectrum usually ranges from maroon all the way to maroon.

Cerberus

3:03 PM

Especially if they're brown already: nice colour interchange.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

But we actually have some nice colors this year.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Oh is that so? Typically German, or general European?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

And my wife participated in an egg-coloring workshop just a couple days ago.

@Cerberus Russian.

Possibly Slavic.

Cerberus

Oh!

Cool.

I may actually have tried that when I was a kid.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Actually the eggs taste better, too.

Cerberus

3:04 PM

We use felt-tips.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

They get just a teeny-tiny awesome flavor.

Cerberus

Hmm interesting.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You probably wouldn't be able to tell that it's onions.

JSBᾶngs

@Reg do your wife's look as good as these?

Cerberus

Oh, another fun thing to try: let differently coloured candles drip on the egges.

@JSBᾶngs Wow pretty! Those done by hand?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

3:05 PM

@JSBᾶngs well, actually better in certain ways. But less work in others.

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus yep. traditional romanian painted eggs.

i've tried making them. they're incredibly hard

Cerberus

Nice.

I understand. Very precise work.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs are those cooked?

It would be a pity to put that on cooked eggs.

Cerberus

We do anything, from pretty figures to funny pictures and comics.

And the earth.

> We demonstrate a middleperson attack on EMV which lets criminals use stolen chip and PIN cards without knowing the PIN.

JSBᾶngs

@RegDwightѬſ道 no, you make a tiny hole in them and blow out the egg. probably very similar to what you learned.

Cerberus

3:10 PM

Haha, middleperson.

Oh yes, blowing out eggs is done here too.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs actually I never colored any blown-out eggs.

That's a different sport entirely.

JSBᾶngs

@RegDwightѬſ道 have you blown any colored eggs?

Cerberus

The bottom line is, I want to eat the egg.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I'm talking about coloring cooked eggs you have to eat right away lest they spoil.

JSBᾶngs

@RegDwightѬſ道 right, that's different. cooking them in onion peel, etc. i read the conversation above.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

3:12 PM

Coloring empty shells is something you have all the time in the world for, and that can survive for as long as you care.

It's more in the Faberge department, really.

0

Q: "for good or ill" meaning?

i saw a scene in Downtown Abbey show . they were ariving to Crawley family house. the boy says : Here we are, ma'am, Crawley House For good or ill what "for good or ill" means here ? any answer would be appreciated.

expressions

JSBᾶngs

cries a little

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I have spent such a huge chunk of my lifetime on correcting the spelling of thousands of people, whether on Wikipedia, on SE, or in my job... I should have learned Japanese instead.

JSBᾶngs

then you'd get to correct people's stroke order

btw, can you use your awe-inspiring powers to make expressions a synonym of common-expressions?

Robusto

@JSBᾶngs But you'd rarely get the opportunity. Certainly not in chat.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs You mean the latter as the master?

Not the other way round?

JSBᾶngs

3:18 PM

@Robusto then you can correct their use of romanji, or correct them for using the wrong one of a set of homophonous kanji

@RegDwightѬſ道 probably expressions should be the master

Robusto

@JSBᾶngs The possibilities are endless.

JSBᾶngs

but if we do that, what happens to the tag wiki on common-expressions?

Robusto

The awkward thing about correcting someone's Japanese, though, is that the better you are at Japanese the less likely you would be to correct someone.

In English we have no such scruples.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

The world hates me today.

JSBᾶngs

@Robusto because it's impolite?

@RegDwightѬſ道 common-phrase is a tag?

Robusto

3:20 PM

@JSBᾶngs Yup.

JSBᾶngs

kill it with fire

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs Everything is a tag on zombo.com. Everything at all.

JSBᾶngs

map common-phrase and common-expressions to expressions

RegDwight Ѭſ道

That's what I'm doing, yes.

JSBᾶngs

good for you

Cerberus

3:25 PM

> A very cheap and simple solution would be to set up a small CMOS camera with an infrared filter attached. With a lens properly focussed on the relevant areas (keypad, card reader etc), a “key” image of the ATM can be aquired in this spectrum. By feeding the images to software, an alogarithm can be designed to detect when the ATM is not in use. This would allow for an unimpeded image of the ATM, which can then be compared with the original “key” image. Any alterations in shape, size or IR reflectivity can be detected and an alert sent.

This sounds like good idea.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I somehow doubt this cheap solution would cost less to set up and maintain than 1 Euro per citizen per year.

Cerberus

Perhaps not.

Then again, how many ATMs are there in Europe? And you only need to install such a camera once to be protected for years, if it works.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It will easily cost 5 Euro to just install it, per machine. Production and maintenance costs not included, however minor.

Cerberus

Well, there are fewer ATMs than people.

And they should work for several years.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Well give me a number to work with.

Cerberus

3:39 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 But, agreed, skimming is a relatively minor/cheap problem, hehe.

Ohh I have an idea! Display a moving image on the ATM.

The camera compares the image to data from the bank at a distance.

The image continually changes according to an unpredictable pattern.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

What are you even talking about.

Cerberus

That way, skimmers can't just hang a small photograph in front of the little camera in order to fool it.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Ah. That.

Well we are getting there. Now it costs only a couple thousand per machine.

Cerberus

Then again, the skimming device could internally film the image and display it on its exterior...

I think the physical characteristics of the ATM machine should be key.

For example, it may be impossible to use enough small cameras inside the skimming device. Or at least too expensive.

Another thing: the entire front of the ATM could be made one smooth surface.

That way, clients can immediately see if something is stuck onto it.

So the skimmer would have to replace the entire front of the machine.

Oh! The front could be weighed automatically.

So attachments would show up.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

So every time someone pushes a button, the ATM ceases working. Brilliant!

Cerberus

3:47 PM

But the the skimmer could use an extra device to pull it up a little, to compensate for the weight. Or use a light gas.

@RegDwightѬſ道 No, it would only check the weight if there's nobody working on the machine.

Okay, but then the motion detection might be vulnerable.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

So every time someone attaches his old chewing gum to the machine, it ceases working. Brilliant!

user19161

The accounts tab does not show on the user page anymore.

Cerberus

True.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting what is this, an echo?

Cerberus

So there should be a heavy fine on putting chewing gum on the machine.

user19161

3:49 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 One now has to navigate to network profile before viewing other accounts.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus How about a heavy fine on using the machine at all. That way everybody wins.

@WillHunting It has been like that for an eternity.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 No, only a few hours I believe.

Cerberus

Then people who went to a bar and needed more cash would be forced to go home or drink nothing.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Exactly.

You don't have money, you don't get to spend it.

Cerberus

No, I think increasing the cost for the forgers is the way to go.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

3:50 PM

It's been like that for thousands of years.

Cerberus

Just as with cash.

Yes.

And the physical properties of the machine can be used to increase the cost.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Oh! I have an idea! How about putting a heavy fine on forging?

Cerberus

We already have that, and it isn't working, because the reward is great. Not so with chewing gum.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Singapore has that with chewing gun.

Cerberus

Yup. And it is said to work.

user19161

3:52 PM

Anyway have a blessed Good Friday. May everyone's life be filled with the miracles they need.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Actually I'm readjusting my priorities.

user19161

Over and out!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Ignore the skimmers. Fine gum chewers.

Cerberus

Bye!

I suppose it would be easy to collect 500M from fines.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Just tax it.

1 Euro per chewing gum sold.

Cerberus

3:53 PM

Might be a good idea.

Don't they haves taxes on chewing gum somewhere?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You could save two Greeces with that. And go to a bar afterwards.

Cerberus

Singapore, perhaps?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Not sure about taxes, you just don't get it anywhere but at drug stores.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Not such a bad idea.

I wonder how much chewing gum costs society each year.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It costs OVER 9000 in looking like a moron.

Cerberus

3:55 PM

It would also help people emancipate if they were unable to chew on chewing gum.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

When I was a kid, I would sometimes chew gum, and whenever I would do that, my Tetris highscores would be abysmal.

Chewing really does make me stupid.

Cerberus

Haha.

Funny. I heard people say chewing gum helps people concentrate.

JSBᾶngs

why is this stupid thing STILL not working?

Cerberus

By the way, cleaning up cigarette butts costs about € 4 /person/year here, including non-smokers.

I imagine the costs for chewing gum might be higher.

JSBᾶngs

and why did i only realize THIS MORNING that orthodox easter is next sunday, not this sunday

STOOPID POPES AND THEIR STOOPID GREGORIAN CALENDAR

Cerberus

3:57 PM

You've painted a huge basket of boiled eggs?

Which will stink in a week?

JSBᾶngs

fortunately, i haven't actually painted any eggs at all yet

so i can breathe a sigh of relief

Cerberus

You're lucky.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

4:14 PM

Bah. Some woman from a state lottery just called me trying to sell me a ticket.

It's always such fun when they do that.

JSBᾶngs

weird. in america i'm pretty sure that people never sell lottery tickets door-to-door

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Not door-to-door.

Cold calling.

That was invented in America.

Cerberus

Wow.

On your land line?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

On my land line at work.

Cerberus

Wowie.

Stupid people.

Could be illegal.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

4:17 PM

Yeah. They do that like every year.

Cerberus

I think it would be illegal here.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's a state lottery. I am pretty sure they define what's legal and what's not.

Cerberus

The government is bound by the law too.

At least here.

It is what we call a rechtstaat.

Or possibly a rechtsstaat.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I'm not sure where you're heading with that, but go on.

It's almost as fun as the phone call I just had.

I just let them talk and suppress the laughter every time they have to pronounce my name according to their protocol.

Cerberus

Well, the fact that the lottery is (indirectly?) owned by the state doesn't mean that everything it does is legal.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

4:18 PM

When I'm nice I help them.

When I'm mean I just wait for them to finish spelling it out. Wrongly.

Cerberus

Yeah it's not really a problem if they don't do it often.

Haha.

I imagine it might be fun with your name.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

This one actually just stopped calling me by my name and opted for calling me "Herr", followed by a glottal stop.

I could literally hear her choke.

Cerberus

Haha.

That'll teach her.

She should be locked up in an ATM and skimmed.

From every angle.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

She actually asked me how to pronounce it right away. Not many people do that, but this one did. I think she now wishes she didn't. Because obviously my name is not pronounced anywhere as it is spelled out in Latin.

Cerberus

Hehe.

You should have entered it in Cyrillic in whatever database she is using.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

4:22 PM

That database probably doesn't support so much as cedilles.

Cerberus

All the better.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I'm not so sure.

I imagine her trying to pronounce @JSB's name.

Cerberus

Gutenmorgen, Herr <blank>.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Dear Herr Nullnullsechsundzwanzig siebenhundertdreizehn...

Cerberus

Haha.

What adjective do they use?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

4:23 PM

Sehr geehrte(r)

Cerberus

I don't think they would use an adjective here, not on the phone.

JSBᾶngs

ironically, i still can't read my own name on this computer

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Sometimes Liebe(r) if they want to sound pseudo-semi-formal.

But that is mostly restricted to writing.

Cerberus

Ah.

So they would literally say "sehr geehrter Herr" on the phone?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yes.

Cerberus

4:24 PM

Odd.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

The chances get higher the more of it they actually read off their protocol.

Cerberus

I can't imagine people saying that in English either.

Or in French.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Cher monsieur?

Of course they would.

Cerberus

No cher.

Bonjour, monsieur.

I think.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Well that's a different context.

Cerberus

4:26 PM

Cher sounds like a letter to me. But I could be wrong.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

In German you would drop the adjective in that situation as well.

Guten Tag, Herr...

Cerberus

In which situation?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Obviously Sehr geehrter/cher/dear/... replaces the Guten Tag/bonjour/hello/...

Hell, what am I still doing here.

I was going to leave an hour ago.

Cerberus

In Dutch, you could never start a telephone conversation with "beste mijnheer".

And I'm not buying it for French either.

Haha.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Well I didn't say she actually said that.

You asked what adjective they would use for "dear", I replied.

Cerberus

4:29 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 But isn't the point that you would always start a phone conversation with a greeting like "Guten Tag"?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

When you don't use "dear", you obviously don't use it.

Cerberus

My question was about a phone conversation.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I see that now.

Cerberus

Perhaps that got lost in the noise.

Hehe.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Anyhoo the waters are further muddied by the fact that she didn't get to speak me directly but had to go via a colleague of mine first.

I told him to just get rid of her, but he had to run.

Cerberus

4:30 PM

You should have asked her first and last name.

And addressed her by her name.

Every. Time.

And slowly.

And incorrectly.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Oh the conversation was slow enough already.

Anyhow.

Cerberus

"Ohh I'm sorry Miss, I didn't quite catch your name. Could you repeat it?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I have to run.

Over and out, pips.

Cerberus

Hmm, am I saying it correctly? Let me practice one more time."

OK bye!

Cerberus

4:55 PM

@Reg: I forgot, this is used in Holland.

If you put something over the slit, the card won't fit in any more. Very clever.

These things are a bit of a pain to use, and only the train stations use these as of yet.

But they may be more secure.

I mean, you need some extra space to put the skimming device in.

If you remove the bar thingie, the machine shuts down. I think.

JSBᾶngs

5:18 PM

hey, look, Hanson said something i actually agree with: overcomingbias.com/2008/09/politics-isnt-a.html

somebody call @Vitaly!

Vitaly

wow @JSB! i'm so proud of you!

JSBᾶngs

now let's all hug

how's the back?

Vitaly

fine, thanks

JSBᾶngs

did you go to a doctor? chiropractor?

Vitaly

the former

though they did make me visit some kind of healthy-lifestyle quack because apparently working with computers is not healthy enough for them. i had fun though — at the quack's expense :)

JSBᾶngs

5:42 PM

well, exercise is good for you.

and it's notoriously undone by programmers

Vitaly

i don't disagree with that. the problem with the quack was that he thought computers per se were unhealthy

JSBᾶngs

they tried to tell me the same thing about cigarettes, and look where that got them

Cerberus

5:58 PM

@Vitaly Hi! Wow, that is hilarious indeed, in a sad way.

So what did they do?