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1:27 AM
Never get into an argument with an Irishman, mate.
 
2:26 AM
@M.A.R. I was proofreading a translation the day before yesterday in which mycophenolate mofetil was mentioned ))
Half of the translators I checked made a mistake while translating that English sentence.
 
3:17 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
4:48 AM
 
5:29 AM
> Personnel, which is allowed to access “clean” rooms should be positively oriented towards maintaining cleanliness.
Am I right to think that this is a broken non-restrictive clause, and that the information after the comma is "additional"?
Also I think that there must be a comma after "rooms".
I call these "commas a-la Russe" because in Russian a comma must be placed in a restrictive clause.
Although in Russian the clause is set off by commas on both sides.
> Лица, имеющие доступ в «чистые» помещения, должны иметь позитивное отношение к подержанию чистоты
I think that when a translator translates this and puts a comma right where there's a comma in the Russian original sentence, he commits a mistake.
In Russian the clause is restrictive despite commas.
You cannot take away the bolded part from the Russian sentence. It is essential. Only the persons who have access to cleanrooms must be oriented towads maintaining cleanliness.
In English, you should avoid using a comma there. Or else you would create a non-restrictive clause.
However, in some cases it is okay. I remember asking a couple of questions on SE where I turned out to be wrong in "correcting" other Russian translators.
But it would be a chore to leaf through the hundreds of my questions now.
It's hard on my conscience to proofread and assess Rus to Eng translations, because I commit a number of errors myself.
> The term kippering is used in slang to mean being immersed in a room filled with cigarette or other tobacco smoke.
 
5:49 AM
@CowperKettle I’d write: Personnel who are allowed to access clean rooms should be . . . “ (On another issue, do you need to scare-quote “clean” rooms? Or is the context so obvious that this is unnecessary?
 
@Xanne The original Russian text has these quote marks around "clean", so I think it's not a crime to retain it in the translation.
Using a "comma a-la Russe" is a crime though. At least from the standpoint of an editor.
It changes the meaning.
And it shows that the translator did not read much English literature.
Thus he will constantly make mistakes because his own translation will apear normal to him. His brain will not detect the phrases where he possibly made mistakes.
 
I agree, @CowperKettle. Leave the quotes on clean alone.
 
Maybe in a couple of years there will be neural networks that will translate perfectly.
I was reading about this GPT-3 or something, and it's impressive.
Generative Pre-trained Transformer 3 (GPT-3) is an autoregressive language model that uses deep learning to produce human-like text. It is the third-generation language prediction model in the GPT-n series (and the successor to GPT-2) created by OpenAI, a San Francisco-based artificial intelligence research laboratory. GPT-3's full version has a capacity of 175 billion machine learning parameters. GPT-3, which was introduced in May 2020, and was in beta testing as of July 2020, is part of a trend in natural language processing (NLP) systems of pre-trained language representations. Before the...
There will be need for proofreaders.
But at least this will greatly improve the flow of information from country to country.
 
6:16 AM
@CowperKettle It would seem, then, to be a translation error to include commas in English around a phrase intended to be restrictive; in the instant case it means that all personnel are allowed to access clean rooms, which is unlikely to be the case.
Personnel, when accessing clean rooms, should be . . . The commas are okay here.
The commas do not lead to the conclusion that all personnel access clean rooms nor to the conclusion that only specific personnel do so.
 
6:44 AM
@CowperKettle I think that will not happen until computers are able to understand the world as humans do.
Before that time, machine translation will remain stunted.
 

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