English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

9:00 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It's OK, I don't blame you any more than myself. But we have had other discussions that were more fun, that's all I meant.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's pretty common. I wouldn't call it silly ignorance either... more like willful obstinacy.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Okay, okay, explaining your perspective...I am convinced!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No! You were supposed to remain unconvinced!

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Do you know anyone like that? I don't, at least not anyone I have ever had a serious discussion with.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Dammit, this is just like that time I time-traveled and stepped on a minotaur.

Cerberus

9:02 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 You'd like that, wouldn't you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, I've read lots of prescriptivist advice that's like that. And lots of school-teachers are like that.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Again? Are you in a time loop?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Didn't you just ask me that?

Actually this conversation is a lot like one we've had before. Where twelve exhausting hours later we realized that your definition of prescriptivism was different than mine.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 School teachers, maybe. But I don't know any. But could it be that you're interpreting this advice as stupid-prescriptivism while in fact it is not? How do you interpret my prescriptivism? Or, if you don't call it that, then why are you so jumpy when I give advice on Greek words?

Matt Эллен

man, doctors are such prescriptivists

Jez

9:05 PM

Grrr

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Could be...but rest assured that most intelligent people who say "x is wrong" are not of the stupid kind.

Jez

bloody woman ignored my online dating message. bitch.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен I bet Mr S would whoop their behinds if he could!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I interpret your prescriptivism as playful and well-meaning holding-back-the-tide-with-your-bare-hands. Because I know you are like a curmudgeonly descriptivist. But that's because I know you a bit.

KitFox

@MattЭллен thwack

Matt Эллен

9:06 PM

@Cerberus kinky

Jez

Anyone read Bill Bryson?

KitFox

Not intentionally, no.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox :D I'm not a doctor!

Jez

grandma's reading it to me. it's terminally boring

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Okay, so you know I consider any and all linguistic advice stylistic. When I say "x is wrong" I mean that I and a significant group of people won't like it. But you still seem to disapprove?

@MattЭллен Hmm is it still kinky if they don't like it?

Matt Эллен

9:08 PM

@Cerberus It depends on if they like not liking it

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Jez's chat-up lines are always the best.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, specifically, I disapprove of stylistic advice that is only applicable to Classics scholars, or which requires learning Greek or Latin to apply. Because we're not speaking those languages, and they've been gone long enough that it shouldn't matter how it works in those languages.

KitFox

@Cerberus Or if MrS likes it.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightѬſ道 lol

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Hmm so masochism is multi-dimensional?

Matt Эллен

9:09 PM

@KitFox oh, yes, that too!

KitFox

@Cerberus Duh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

wait what? I like what now?

Matt Эллен

spanking prescriptivists or doctors

KitFox

Proscriptivist doctors.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox is that a doctor that forbids you from something?

KitFox

9:11 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 claps hands You got it!

Matt Эллен

it's a doctor that identifies you as an enemy of the state

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Cuz my pharmacist wife would scold me if I didn't point out that that piece of paper the doc gives you with your meds on it is called a prescription. Not a proscription. not a subscription. Not a perspection.

Nor any of the other words patients use.

KitFox

makes notes

Robusto

@Jez Yes, of course. Why?

KitFox

Perspiration. Perspicacity.

Matt Эллен

9:12 PM

despiration

KitFox

Conscription.

Or just a scrip.

Not to be confused with scrip.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Okay, fine, but you don't need to speak Greek to be able to copy the way a phrase is traditionally used. And I'm assuming you wouldn't want to form new words from Greek/Latin if you don't know either language. The fact is just that there is a tradition and a significant group of people (including people who don't know any Greek at all) who dislike it when they realize that "the hoi" is a pleonasm. It's fine if you disagree, but why forbid me from advising people this way?

My advice would make sure that absolutely noöne would object to this person's use of language. Isn't that what most people want? They can just ignore it if they like.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Perspectivist!

2

Matt Эллен

oh, you love it when people say the hoi polloi

KitFox

And the hoity toity say le the hoi polloi.

user19161

hocus pocus

Matt Эллен

9:14 PM

@KitFox :D yeah

user19161

hanky panky

user19161

hewlett packard

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Ahhhh! double thwack

user19161

hand phone

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm pretty sure that most people who might know what "hoi polloi" means would consider it wrong if you leave out the "the" because "hoi" is not an article in English.

Matt Эллен

9:15 PM

quite

user19161

rather

Robusto

Bill Bryson is not terminally boring. He is quite funny and an excellent prose stylist. So put that in your grandma's pipe and smoke it.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't think so: most people who don't know would not like it if they knew. Besides, does it matter what "most people" think? The ideal is to use language in a way that the people who matter to you all approve, isn't it?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus no sense only spanking one cheek, eh!

Cerberus

At least it is to me.

@MattЭллен That would be like stepping on the seam between two tiles!

Or not on it, depending on how you're wired.

Matt Эллен

9:17 PM

I think I understand

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It matters what "most people" think if "most people" would consider the "right" way to be wrong.

user19161

@Jez Let's be nice.

Matt Эллен

like using nugget only when you mean something valuable

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

can we get a coca search on the use of hoi polloi with and without the "the"? let's settle this debate once and for me.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Huh, you think many people would dislike leaving out the article? Well I never...

Matt Эллен

9:18 PM

@Cerberus I think most people in English speaking places would include the article

like how people say "a myriad of"

KitFox

I'm not sure why you would.

user19161

I don't even know what hoi polloi is.

KitFox

@MattЭллен D'oh. I think I said that earlier.

Matt Эллен

heh :D it's fine by me!

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 And make sure they spell it οἱ πολλοί — none of your modern, Romanized transliterations!

user19161

9:20 PM

Hoi polloi

Hoi polloi (, hoi polloi, “the many”), an expression meaning "the many", or in the strictest sense, "the majority" in Greek, is used in English to denote "the masses" or "the people", usually in a derogatory sense. Synonyms for "hoi polloi" include "... commoners, great unwashed, minions, multitude, plebeians, the plebs, rank and file, riff-raff, the common people, the herd, the many, the proletariat, the proles, the peons, the working class". The phrase became known to English scholars probably from Pericles' Funeral Oration, as mentioned in Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian Wa...

KitFox

3 hours ago, by KitFox

I had a myriad of people ask me if I was disappointed that my eldest was not born on Leap Day, to which I responded "hell, no. Who would want to be born on such a day?"

Ack, no! I did!

Matt Эллен

oh noe! @Cerberus will spank you.

Robusto

In fact, a closer reading of prescriptivist rules would probably have us all speaking Greek anyway.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен But would they consider no article wrong?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So @cerb, do a coca search on hoi polloi. You'll be annoyed, I think, at the abysmal (by your theory) use of this phrase.

Matt Эллен

9:21 PM

@Cerberus probably, depending on the context

user19161

The Bridge is full of stupid flags.

Matt Эллен

indeed

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=14776715

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Most people use most phrases in abysmal ways. But that is not relevant for me or other people like me, of which there are plenty.

@MattЭллен That's very silly. I'm surprised so many people would even use the phrase.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

In fact I'm not even sure how the phrase could ever be used in English, except in almost zero circumstances, if it has a built-in article.

Cerberus

9:23 PM

Strange.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus well, I'm probably over generalising - it's mainly people of my parent's generation and older who would use it

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It's quite simple: you just leave out the article wherever you see it.

Matt Эллен

but of those people I'm guessing most of them would use it with an article

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> they were considered eligible by the Hollywood hoi polloi

So that would be

> they were considered eligible by Hollywood hoi polloi

?

Matt Эллен

no

> hoi Hollywood polloi

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:24 PM

> they were considered eligible by hoi Hollywood polloi

Cerberus

You can't use any word before the phrase like that.

Matt Эллен

at least in normal English

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

well, fine. Take your Greek phrase and keep it. it simply doesn't fit in English.

Robusto

@Cerberus Yes. You. Can. This is English, not Greek.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm going to coin my own phrase.

It means "the people"

I call it "hoi polloi"

Cerberus

9:25 PM

It fits perfectly.

aedia λ

@KitFox Carl Sagan did in Cosmos too I'm pretty sure

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It is an English word

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 If it means "the people", you want me to say "the the people"?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The first part is simply farther away from the second part

Robusto

It's obvious @Cerberus doesn't care to mingle linguistically with the hoi polloi.

Matt Эллен

9:25 PM

I'm going to coin a phrase - it means snooty types - I call it "hoi polloi"

KitFox

@aediaλ You are so sweet.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No, you can't just sub a definition in for a word

Cerberus

@Robusto smack

aedia λ

@KitFox No wait, not Sagan, Asimov. But my point still stands

Feb 1 at 16:06, by aedia λ

I used to, in my shamefully prescriptivist younger days, be upset about myriad of things, and I still notice it sometimes. I noticed Asmiov using myriad differently than I would when we were listening to Foundation or Foundation and Empire, and grinned to myself.

I couldn't remember but this is from when I was actually listening to it so it must be true.

We're on Second Foundation now.

KitFox

Who cares what hoi polloi think?

@aediaλ I liked them at the beginning, but I felt like they petered out in the middle, and I lost interest.

Just when things were getting good, actually.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:28 PM

All I'm trying to say, Cerb, is that Greek grammar has no bearing on English grammar. And getting upset about that is pointless. It's like getting upset about the fact that the American national anthem was a rip-off of a british song, which nowadays would be prevented by copyright. Who cares?

Cerberus

Well, this discussion is a bit open ended. I and many people with me strongly dislike "the hoi polloi", while perhaps a larger group is fine with it. That is not really an argument for me. But let's agree to disagree.

KitFox

Anyway, I have to go. Later!

aedia λ

Bai!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus People with you, who also study greek and latin?

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Wait, what?

Matt Эллен

9:28 PM

cya @KitFox

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox yeah, the tune is from an older british song, according to wikipedia

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I'm not upset; I simply disagree.

Matt Эллен

the British National Anthem, no?

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Oh, right. The lyrics were a poem originally. I forgot.

aedia λ

@KitFox I like those three but not really the prequel or the other one or two. And Foundation and Empire I don't even like that much, it's just a bridge to Second Foundation.

KitFox

9:29 PM

OK Bai!

Matt Эллен

Bai (hugs)

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 People who care about consistency in that way. I'm not saying other people don't care about consistency in their own ways, but they don't care about it my way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus OK, so we disagree. But it's not just "hoi polloi". It's ANY piece of advice about English that says "this is wrong because in Greek it's like this..."

Robusto

@Cerberus The point is, if I were speaking to a bunch of fustian-stuffed pedants, I would be careful to say things like "I do not care to mingle with οἱ πολλοί, do you? Pass the caviar, please." But if I were writing or speaking to the general public — in English — the use of the article would not bother me at all.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I find that a perfectly good argument stylistically. Why shouldn't it be?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:30 PM

@Cerberus because we're not speaking greek!

it doesn't matter what people were doing 2000 years ago in a different language!

Cerberus

@Robusto In that case, wouldn't you rather know what those pedants like and dislike, instead of not having the choice?

Robusto

Purists would only ever speak Proto-Indo-European.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It does to many people.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Like Robusto said: by extension of your strategy, the whole language should be ancient greek, perfect and unchanged lo these many years

Robusto

@Cerberus It depends. Do I want to watch them get their knickers in a twist or not?

Cerberus

9:32 PM

A balance has to be struck, and such inconsistency should be an argument. It may not always win, but in this case I feel it should.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus did you take a look at all the uses of hoi polloi in the COCA search I linked? Are you telling me that almost every single one is wrong?

Matt Эллен

no balance! all conversations should be figured out by guess work

Cerberus

@Robusto Exactly. You want to be able to control this knicker-twisting power rather use it inadvertently to your disadvantage.

Robusto

@Cerberus hoi polloi 1837, from Gk. hoi polloi (pl.) "the people," lit. "the many" (pl. of polys; see poly-). Used in Greek by Dryden (1668) and Byron (1822), in both cases preceded by the, even though Gk. hoi means "the," a mistake repeated often by subsequent writers, who at least have the excuse of ignorance of Greek. From Etymonline. Hahahahaha!

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes. Easy question. Again: I don't care what hoi polloi write. If they all wear torn jeans, I still have every right to dislike it and advise my friend against them.

@Robusto What of it?

Matt Эллен

9:34 PM

*the hoi polloi

Robusto

@Cerberus You know, you get all bent out of shape about "misuse" of Greek and yet you don't care enough about English to write syntactically complete sentences in chat.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Look, you know how language works. So for you to advise people to use a non-existent rule for an English word that originated in some other language, because in that language it was a phrase, is misguided.

Cerberus

@Robusto So?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Let's close the subject. We're not going to agree here.

Robusto

@Cerberus You're like those people who get all bent out of shape when an animal is harmed, yet look with unconcern on the slaughter of human beings.

Matt Эллен

(0_0)

Cerberus

9:36 PM

@Robusto And? Does that mean the animal should be harmed?

Matt Эллен

not much like them

Cerberus

Look, I don't know why all of you keep harping on this. I have explained why I dislike this phrase and that I feel I should be allowed to tell people why. I don't know what else there is to say.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Fine. I don't know HOW you sleep at night with all that cognitive dissonance clanging around in your brains. ;)

Robusto

NO! DON'T CLOSE THE SUBJECT! WE NEED TO KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE HOI POLLOI UNTIL IT GETS TRACKED ON KNOWYOURMEME.COM!

Cerberus

Pfff.

Robusto

9:38 PM

@Cerberus If it will save a human life, I say yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus mainly because this particular instance is just a good example of how you treat the entire subject of latin/greek origins.

Cerberus

When I'm telling people I don't like torn jeans, noöne gets upset...

Matt Эллен

...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus You're not going around trying to stop people from wearing them because "that's not how they did it in Athens"

Robusto

Matt Эллен

9:39 PM

they were naked in Athens

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен almost like their jeans were so torn, they were all tear and no jean!

Matt Эллен

lol

Robusto

@Cerberus Maybe you should harp on the evils of Apple instead. You haven't done that for a few hours now.

Cerberus

I'll try not to comment on Greek words.

If it so upsets you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, don't stop being wrong because it upsets us! Stop being wrong because it's wrong :p

Cerberus

9:41 PM

I'll also try not to harp on Apple or religion.

Matt Эллен

it does not upset me! I like to hear your opinions

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

wait... there won't be anything to talk about!

Cerberus

What if you stopped harping on my harping?

Robusto

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Also it doesn't upset me to hear why the English usage would be wrong in Greek. What upsets me is when that's presented as a rule that English speakers are expected to know.

@Robusto who do the onions respect?

Cerberus

9:42 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I'm not biting any more.

@MattЭллен Well, I do sort of agree that I should cut back a little on sharing them like that...

Robusto

Matt Эллен

lol

yes!

Cerberus

@Robusto I am! Art thou still not happy?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

so, it's that time of day again. I must venture forth into the storm to recover my children from whence they were left this morning.

Matt Эллен

good luck

Cerberus

9:45 PM

bites tongue

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

thanks. The storm I refer to is a literal one.

Cerberus

Good luck!

Is it cold?

Snow and ice?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus aw, don't hurt yourself!

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Always.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus snow and wind, anyway.

looks like it's not that cold. rain forecast for the next few days so perhaps the snow will melt and I won't have to shovel.

Cerberus

9:47 PM

Ack.

Matt Эллен

Ack?

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 As long as it keeps you out of church, we may thank God.

Matt Эллен

Syn

Cerberus

Throw some hoi polloi in the wind to sap its strength.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен syn/ack

Matt Эллен

9:48 PM

don't talk back

Cerberus

@MattЭллен That was about the snow and the wind.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus How can I do that? isn't that sentence grammatically incorrect?

Matt Эллен

oh, that's yakity yak

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен fin

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 All the better to distract the wind!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:49 PM

Shouldn't it be "Throw some polloi in the wind..."?

@Robusto If it took bad weather to keep me from church, I'd have no excuse this winter.

anyway: bye everyone!

Cerberus

Actually, it should be "some pollous". If you follow the Attic dialect in any case.

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 What? I thought we cured polloi in the '50s.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus which I do, religiously

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Great! Athens rules!

Matt Эллен

we have travelled back in time?

because Athens is bankrupt where I come from. but I suppose they could still rule...

I r off to bed.

Cerberus

9:53 PM

@MattЭллен Oh, well, new doesn't travel fast here: to me, she still rules the Mediterranean! Good night!

user19161

I think I will just ignore all the chat flags from now.

Robusto

I usually just mark them invalid. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

Cerberus

Hear, hear!

Most flags seem a bit prudish.

user19161

I think if A has a problem with B in chat, A should just talk to B about it instead of flagging B.

user19161

Flagging does not solve the root cause of the problem.

aedia λ

10:01 PM

@Cerberus Nah, that can't be true. They're waving their goods around in the wind for everyone to see.

user19161

Flagging just keeps the transcript clean, but who cares?

aedia λ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Safe travels!

I don't really understand what happened here so I'm going to just shove these onions and dead harp seals over to the side and sit down.

Cerberus

@aediaλ Eww now I can never look at a normal flag again!

Robusto

Flagging in chat is the coward's way of calling someone out. It is the snitch's justice.

KitFox

Jesus Christ, I'm gone for twenty minutes and you've filled an entire page with nonsense.

Robusto

10:04 PM

@aediaλ But aren't "goods" ipso facto good? What is this world coming to?

KitFox

And the stuff that @aedia had to say.

aedia λ

@Robusto A conclusion, if we don't do something about it?

user19161

But I flag comments that are really off and bad on the main site because it is supposed to be about ELU, not people's quarrels.

KitFox

Do people still use quarrels?

Robusto

Yeah, flagging on the main site is often necessary. But in chat, anything goes except really malicious vituperation or spam. Not necessarily in that order.

user19161

10:08 PM

I don't know. Sometimes we can't tell if A and B are having fun or the opposite.

KitFox

I thought those were made illegal, along with hollowpoints.

Mmm, vituperation.

Robusto

►

aedia λ

Gosh I love that soundtrack.

Now I'm jonesing for another Fallout playthrough.

KitFox

I should maybe try Fallout, since y'all seem to like it.

user19161

I noticed "y'all" is very popular with females.

Robusto

10:12 PM

Haha. I tried that recently only to find that my Fallout 3 disc is unreadable by the XBox.

@JasperLoy That's a pretty random conclusion. Where did it come from?

aedia λ

@Robusto Oh no!

user19161

@Robusto Well, it seems that the female chatters in this room use it liberally but not the males.

user19161

But no official statistics.

KitFox

I think it is the first time I have ever used it in this chat.

user19161

I'm sure aedia has used it a few times.

Robusto

10:14 PM

@aediaλ Oh yes. It totally sucks, because I got hold of the xpacs and was in the middle of beating "Broken Steel" when the XBox decided enough was enough.

aedia λ

How is playing games like that on XBox, anyway? @Kit, you have one too, on which you play Skyrim?

I've never had a game system other than Wii - been a PC gamer nearly exclusively.

KitFox

@JasperLoy Correlation = living in the South. Not gender related.

Robusto

@aediaλ I like to get away from the computer. I work at a computer all day, and when I relax with video games I like to lean back and look at things in the middle distance. Easier on the eyes.

KitFox

@aediaλ I have a PS3, actually, not an XBox.

@Robusto This.

Robusto

Also I have a huge TV, so it's pretty awesome.

KitFox

10:16 PM

Yeah, that too.

user19161

@Robusto You should do away with games altogether then!

aedia λ

I have about a 32" tv to which my gaming computer is connected, and I have mouse and keyboard set up on the coffee table, and right now I usually sit on an exercise ball to play.

Robusto

@JasperLoy Stop trying to prove to me that you're crazy.

KitFox

Nothing quite like the feeling of your balls jumping into your throat when you base jump off of the tallest mountain in Skyrim

aedia λ

I used to try to play on the couch but my new couch is also a futon now that we've been in the studio and it's totally not a good height.

Cerberus

10:17 PM

@aediaλ Hmm do exercise balls really work against back pain?

KitFox

@aediaλ Hmm. I have a cat and two small children.

Gotta go. Later!

user19161

One can just admire the stars to relax the eyes at night.

user19161

But there are stars on TV too.

user19161

And there are also stars in this room.

aedia λ

@Cerberus It's comfy to sit on while I play and a good height. I can't really say, except that it's way better than anything else I've tried other than standing (which only works for Wii games, not keyboard) or sitting crosslegged on the floor (which after a while bothers my neck with the gaming setup).

Cerberus

10:20 PM

Hmm OK, so you're not doing it specifically against back pain?

aedia λ

@Robusto Oh man I would be so frustrated! I haven't played most of the expansions.

Robusto

That's it. My old 46" TV is behind it because I had to wait for my son to help me take it down and put the new 60" up on the wall mount. The game being played right there is Just Cause 2, which is a fun sandbox shooter.

Bad camera on my old phone, but you get the idea.

aedia λ

@KitFox I love love love jumping off things in Skyrim. I have repeatedly jumped off towers just because it actually nauseates me to watch the animation, like I'm really my character. My husband found Become Ethereal and so he showed me a bunch of jumps that he survived but I haven't got it on my character... yet :)

user19161

-1

Q: The best language to learn?

Which language do you suggest for learning? I know english very good, and know some of german. I want to start learning fourth language but can't decide which to choose. My native language is Bosnian. :)

learning

aedia λ

@Robusto Ahhh sweet!!

user19161

10:26 PM

Off-topic.

Cerberus

@Robusto Wow!! That's huge.

Robusto

@Cerberus That's what she said.

aedia λ

@Cerberus Well a little bit against back pain. It definitely bugs me to sit in the same position too long, or sit in general, but I didn't want to totally change my computer use style and I thought it might help.

Cerberus

Your mother?

@aediaλ So I guess forcing you change position is exactly what it's supposed to do, right?

Robusto

@aediaλ Skyrim is amazing on my new TV. Way better than Oblivion was.

aedia λ

10:30 PM

drools a little

Cerberus

pouts

aedia λ

I want a giant tv but can't mount it to a wall right now and don't want to buy another giant expensive thing that I have to worry about moving next time we move...

Stupid apartments.

Robusto

Yeah. Nice to have a house.

aedia λ

Someday I'll have a big display.

Robusto

They're coming way down in price.

aedia λ

10:33 PM

@Cerberus Yeah you end up using your legs and stomach muscles to balance yourself, so you wiggle a tiny bit, and you have to shift around if you get uncomfortable; I think I notice it much sooner than if I'm just in a chair because my legs get tired or stiff.

Robusto

I've tried those exercise balls and those "kneeling" chairs and all that. I last about a day before I give up and go back to slouching in my chair because I just need to get some work done.

aedia λ

Because of how my coffee table is it's not perfect and I do sometimes rest my leg against the table or the ball against the couch behind me a little but it's still comfortable.

Oh I don't use it for work.

I have a real chair at work. I wish I had a nicer one.

Robusto

I bought an Aeron chair for my home office but I don't like it. It's not really what I imagined it would be.

aedia λ

They make them sound so perfect.

They're really not like, adjustable in a zillion directions and even fetch you coffee?

Cerberus

@aediaλ Hmm that does sound quite uncomfortable.

aedia λ

10:36 PM

@Cerberus I only use it max a couple hours at a time, gaming on evenings or weekends.

Cerberus

@Robusto Ah, the kneeling chairs are still uncomfortable? People talk about them as if they were magical sex machines.

@aediaλ Hm OK. I believe some offices have them?

aedia λ

@Cerberus Exercise balls?

My office got me an adjustable keyboard tray (if you recall, I'm short) but we just have junky chairs.

Robusto

@aediaλ BTW, if you liked Fallout 3, you'll LOVE Skyrim.

aedia λ

I do love Skyrim.

I just want to see it even bigger :)

Especially smashing the dragons with my big axe.

Robusto

@Cerberus Well, I have done both and I have to say this: kneeling chairs have a ways to go before they can claim to be as good as sex.

@aediaλ That is teh awesome.

Cerberus

10:40 PM

OK I'll tell those delusional people.

Robusto

I can kill a dragon in about four strokes of Wulfrath.

Cerberus

I take it that's not the name of your favourite kneeling chair.

Robusto

@Cerberus Nope. I don't have a favorite kneeling chair. I despise them all equally.

Cerberus

I suppose if everyone is despised equally, that's better than being liked less than one's friend.

aedia λ

@Robusto I thought I was going to be a bit of an archer, because in Fallout 3 and NV I ended up sniping a lot because stuff would overwhelm me if I got too close too fast especially early on. But then I was just terrible at shooting the bow (as I later discovered, partly because my wireless mouse was on the fritz). I started wearing heavy armor, bashing everything around me with a two-handed axe, which was totally different than how I'd ever played, and didn't look back. I love that game.

Except I feel bad for how many horses I've killed, but whoops.

Robusto

10:49 PM

@aediaλ Funny, I took a different route. I started off as a tank and then built up my archery skill. There are archery perks that make it really easy to snipe.

aedia λ

@Robusto I did get a few and got a little better at archery. I have the Nightingale bow too, now that I don't really need it.

I like the way the game has flexibility in the path you take, so that you don't have to shape your character too much with initial choices.

Robusto

Next time I play through I'm going to be a thief. You do 6x damage with backstab and you can carry more loot.

@aediaλ Yeah, it's really well thought-out.

Mahlzeit. Laters.

aedia λ

G'night!

@Cerb, so you've never got into any of these role-playing/shooting games?

I was never into first-person/3rd person shooters, really; watched friends and my brother play things like Rainbow Six. But then Mass Effect and Fallout got me.

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