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7:00 PM
Be the change you wish to see in the world universe
@StackMeter You've got write access in JHT now
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Call one of them Lucy, and when someone asks what it's short for, say it's Lucifer :P
CMQ: How high does your reputation graph go? (the one in the reputation tab, not the main one)
 
The daily rep one
 
Oh, do you mean the bar chart?
 
7:03 PM
Yeah
 
rip
200 daily max
 
55% of my repcaps were within a month of now
 
if you get more
 
7:04 PM
Interesting
 
CMQ: Who wants a bounty on their question
 
does that tack on to the repcount for the next day
 
@Wezl Award one on the Ash floating point one
 
@StackMeter Nope
 
@Wezl me
 
7:04 PM
@Wezl Moi
 
There were some super impressive answers
 
why
 
Once you hit 200, the rest of the day is lost
 
I'd like more attention here
 
because I need to hit 1k quick
 
7:05 PM
@StackMeter you haven't asked any questions
 
@StackMeter If you learn Scala, I have a bounty for answers that use it.
 
@StackMeter To stop users who repcap regularly from rocketing ahead with rep. We had a discussion about this previously, and basically users who have more rep would have even more without the repcap
 
I'm never going to hit 3k lol
or 1k for that matter
 
(really poorly made) userscript to replace links' innerHTML with their hrefs: gist.github.com/hyper-neutrino/895eab0cc8f7935da98dad32621ffab6
 
@Wezl Learn Scala and/or answer old questions and I can give you some bounties
 
7:08 PM
@Wezl Not if you keep offering bounties :P
 
@user How big is the scala compiler? That's why I'm not about to
@cairdcoinheringaahing exactly
 
Why would the compiler size matter?
 
@Wezl You can try Scala online in Scastie
 
@RedwolfPrograms it's bloated, and it's on the JVM anyway
 
It's smaller than the Java compiler, but it does require a JDK installed
@Wezl There's Scala Native (beta) and Scala.js (stable)
Scastie has Scala.js, but you might want to try ScalaFiddle
 
7:11 PM
apparently I already have ecj installed and it took seconds to say Unrecognized option : --help
 
I kinda feel like stopping my bounty until I get 10k rep, but that might not happen anytime soon anyway
@Wezl The Eclipse Java Compiler?
 
yeah
not that that's very related to scala but anyhow
 
Why are you using that? (I mean outside of Eclipse)
 
IDK it's just already installed
 
Oh ok
iirc it's a bit slower because of incremental compilation or something
Although it lets you do cool/crazy stuff like compile even when you have errors
 
7:14 PM
OH MY GOD
 
?
 
SOMEONE HELP ME BEAT XNOR
 
No need to "shout", keep it civil please
 
sorry
just that it's 50 reputation a pop
 
Don't worry so much about reputation, it'll come on its own if you focus on golfing
 
7:16 PM
although that being said, it's very tough to outgolf xnor
 
High quality posts -> more rep
 
Also, the point of reputation is that if you get it, it means you deserve it. Getting bounties is great, but it's kind of a shortcut (hence the 500 rep limit)
@rak1507 Hence the bounty :P
 
yep
@user are you saying I don't deserve the thousands of rep I've got from APL bounties :P
 
...
 
See, I'm not sure if I should be a buzzkill or not. This answer has always annoyed me as it makes no effort to golf, but it has +1300. Is it worth flagging for deletion as not a serious contender?
 
7:19 PM
No
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing no, it's a fun answer, and it's historic at this point
 
Neither of which is a good argument for keeping it
 
Also, what do you flag answers with if they're not serious contenders? I thought it'd be NAA but that got declined.
 
Validity should trump fun and history
 
Disagree.
 
7:20 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Mod intervention
 
I also disagree
 
I don't think it should be there, but it's not worth bothering
 
to me, that answer is a net positive overall
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing it is valid and my policy on non-serious contenders is if it is not attempting to meet the criteria for the challenge at all
minus the whitespace, i'd say this answer doesn't belong to that category
and clever approaches that might not be the most optimal have pretty much always been seen as a positive
 
There are multiple golfs suggested in the comments that trivially reduce the byte count, while still preserving the "point" of the answer
IMO it makes no effort to properly compete
 
7:25 PM
killjoy :P
 
we could open it to meta. because i think this kind of creativity embodies the whole point of the art side of code-golf but it is technically not competitive and doesn't attempt to take trivial steps to be more competitive
2
but my opinion will differ from other people's so it's not very straightforward
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing no because 1300+ people disagree with you (people in TNB may have more experience with the site, but those opinions still count)
 
The people have decided they like it, stupid as their decision may be. Who are you to question it?
:57639295 I saw that :P
 
7:29 PM
@user Respectfully, that's an awful attitude: something's popular, so it's fine no matter what. If people like it, that's fair. People clearly disagree with my view that it isn't a valid answer, also fair. But that doesn't mean that the response should be "it's popular, so it's good"
2
 
hence why i'd open it to meta if there's sufficient belief that it should be deleted. because i am a moderator with unilateral power but i signed up to use that to uphold the beliefs of the community, not my own
 
Populism sucks; at least that's what all my friends say
3
 
If I was bothered enough, I'd take it to meta. Or would've flagged it in the first place without asking around
As it stands, I suppose I'll grid my teeth until someone else thinks it should go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm not saying it's good, but it's pretty subjective, and I don't see why a few people's opinions matter more than those of a thousand people
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing grit*
 
7:31 PM
How important are the hyperbolic trig functions for a golfing language?
 
(I do agree that they should have removed that whitespace but this might set a bad precedent)
 
@RedwolfPrograms probably at most a 2-byter, don't think they're at all common, so not worth wasting a single-byte built-in for IMHO
 
@pxeger Nope, I'm making my teeth into a 8x8 grid so I can play tooth chess :P
 
@RedwolfPrograms not important enough for one byte builtins, 2 bytes
 
Well for 2 bytes ofc :p
 
7:33 PM
@RedwolfPrograms there's not really a reason not to add them - basically no implementation or upkeep cost
 
@user Because, as the site has shown time and time again, voters generally don't give a crap if an answer is "valid" or "a serious contender", they just see something that fits with the creativity of the site and upvote it
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Fair enough, but as rak mentioned above, it's historic at this point, and it does show creativity even if it's not optimal. I say we keep it
 
Which is why a meta discussion would probably be the most appropriate way to decide, with users who actually know and participate in the site providing arguments, rather than people who have 101 rep and an upvote button
 
That's a good idea
 
this is a similar discussion but to a greater extent
 
7:35 PM
Would it be about this one answer or are there similar answers (highly upvoted, not optimal but interesting in some other way)?
 
I don't have enough of a stake in the fight to bother writing out a meta discussion, I'm fine with leaving it be if that's what people want
 
Apathy is the best stance to take here tbh
 
I brought it up to see if people agreed with me or not, and I think I know :P
 
Well I do..
 
also keep in mind that this question has likely hit HNQ at some point so a lot of upvotes may be from people who have no idea what our site is about
 
7:36 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing To be fair, I don't like that the author took no effort to improve the answer by removing whitespace, and I've downvoted it because of that.
@hyper-neutrino That's true, I guess
 
@pxeger Feel free to bring it up on meta, I'll happily add my support. But I suspect you've got the same amount of apathy towards that as me
 
inedeed
 
I'm lazy
 
On the other hand, I'm at 29/30 for Inquisitive on meta... :P
 
Ok, it looks like it was a port of the Scala answer. Now I'm really angry >-(
 
7:40 PM
The Python answer came first, by 2 minutes :P
 
Oh ok, now i'm mad at the Scala answer
 
It's probably a coincidence maybe?
 
Stop making me change my allegiances so much! :P
 
Wait, no, 2 hours, Scala answer first
 
@RedwolfPrograms Possible, yeah
 
7:41 PM
17:48 vs 19:46 (scala vs Python)
 
25 secs ago, by user
Stop making me change my allegiances so much! :P
 
I say we delete the Python one honestly, since it turns out it's not novel
 
Congrats on being the first answer on this site to reach 1,000 upvotes. :) — Joe Z. Dec 6 '15 at 2:48
It hit +1000 in under 2 years, and has had +340 in 5.5 years
 
Congratulations on being the first answer on this site to reach 1,000 upvotes and get deleted - caird, probably
 
CMDQ: Should flat be shallow or deep by default?
 
7:43 PM
Man the revisions make it worse. Someone edited in a golf (boo), but then the dude just rolled it back and never bothered to implement that golf :/
 
Burn it! Burn it with fire!
 
yeah the scala answer makes me real angry (at the python one)
 
No the scala one is original!
It's a good one
The Python one is the bad one
Oh ok
Hooray for english being ambiguous
 
Lemme just draft up the meta post, how's "Do we hate fun?" for a title? :P
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing i just posted one already
 
7:46 PM
The answer is obviously "Don't worry, we don't byte"
 
oh hey the featured sidebar updated. yay
 
Just saw :P
 
Why on earth does JS have both trimStart and trimLeft and they work exactly the same
 
they probably work differently for some extremely obscure inputs
 
Nope, they're identical
 
7:49 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Deep
Maybe there should be another (2-byte) command taking the levels of nesting as an argument
 
Considering making + and - vectorize by default, instead of converting both arguments to numbers
 
8:11 PM
Why did I bother typing up and citing all those previous meta discussions when New Posts nailed my point in 3 lines? :P
> Handling old, popular, creative, but non-competitive answers
Delete them
Now - caird coinheringaahing (31,331)
2
 
It's like poetry
 
8:27 PM
What does Jelly mean by convolution for æc?
 
How does that work in Jelly? Looks like it's an operation on functions
 
I believe it's the convolution of 2 polynomials, expressed as lists of coefficients
@rak1507 IIRC it's implemented by hand, not using numpy in Jelly
 
looks like it
def convolve(left, right):
	left, right = iterable(left, make_range = True), iterable(right, make_range = True)
	result = [0]*(len(left)+len(right)-1)
	for i,x in enumerate(left):
		for j,y in enumerate(right):
			result[i+j] += x*y
	return result
 
8:30 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing sure, but that's just docs for it
 
NMP come on, it's been 45 minutes since i posted to meta
 
Don't you post for it, I warned you yesterday what happens :P
 
@hyper-neutrino Where'd the anime girl go? :'(
 
4
Q: Handling old, popular, creative, but non-competitive answers

hyper-neutrinoTake a look at this answer: Produce the number 2014 without any numbers in your source code. This is the most upvoted answer on our site right now. However, as many have pointed out, by modern standards, this is not a competitive solution because it doesn't take trivial steps to be more competiti...

 
Due to the way OSP logins in (via codegolf.se rather than directly into chat) I think it'll get the Fanatic badge on July 6th at the latest :P
 
8:40 PM
:p
Unless I decide to shut down the server for maintainence at the exact right time ;)
 
I get Enthusiast in two hours
Or three maybe
 
It's UTC days, so 3 hours 20 mins
 
Thanks!
 
@Ausername Congrats on Sportmanship btw, we need more users with that badge :)
 
8:46 PM
@Delfad0r decided to change it cuz even though lyxal and other people who say "my opinion isn't valid" are certainly joking, i'd rather not give a negative or unprofessional appearance, and to avoid confusing people about my gender identity, and because i'm getting bored of people refering to a character from a video game made by a chinese company as "anime" lmao
basically no real significant reason. also the lambda symbol looks cool
 
@hyper-neutrino Pretty sure Lyxal isn't joking
Lyxal is Lyxal :P
 
@hyper-neutrino You're going to need to steal caird's kneecaps too it seems
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing your kneecaps. hand them over
 
@hyper-neutrino Can I at least keep one?
 
8:49 PM
for now, you may
 
Just take some elbows as a warning
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing What would you use it for? Are you saying you would stand up?!?
 
@Ausername That's very difficult, but doable. Generalist is literally impossible to get on CGCC as it's "Only awarded to anyone after each of the 40 top tags has over 200 questions" (source) and we only have 27 tags with 200+ questions: codegolf.stackexchange.com/tags?tab=popular
We'd need 86 more questions for anyone to even get close to it (plus just a whole lot more questions under a whole lot more tags)
 
That's an awful prerequisite for a tag
It's basically SO only
Maybe math and SU too
On a typical QWERTY keyboard, which hand does more typing?
Probably the left one, right?
 
8:54 PM
 
my initial guess would be the left hand, since when i compare one-handed typing speed, i'm faster with my left hand, but that isn't really that good of an indication :P
 
Probably left because of E, T, A, and S
i guess backspace is on the right, so it might depend on your error rate :p
 
no I use my left hand for backspace
:)
 
I type very weirdly
I use both hands, but I only use one finger on each
Or that might be normal idk
 
@RedwolfPrograms Authoritative reference needed?
 
8:59 PM
No, reward an existing one
 
boring but ok
 
@RedwolfPrograms We would have 130 users with Generalist without that requirement
 
wait but which one would I reward it to then?
 
As soon as we pass it, a bunch of people are going to be awarded it
 
@Wezl Don't worry about it actually, I'll do one myself
 
9:04 PM
Who would get a Generalist badge without the 200 question/tag requirement. If the number in the final column is 20 or higher, you would get it
 
@RedwolfPrograms Left, I can eat a pizza with my right hand and type with my left
@RedwolfPrograms And you call yourself a programmer?!
 
Just 18 of them :(
By the way, thanks @Wezl
 
9:28 PM
I found a part of the help center that's actually relevant! From What are declined flags, and what should I do about them?:
> the better we are at working together to solve problems, the better Code Golf Stack Exchange works for everyone!
Good to see that the spirit of the site is in the help center, albeit in the wrong place :/
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing I mean, a good part of the help center is relevant, there's just a lot of Q&A-specific stuff mixed in with it
> The problem may be subtle, and those reviewing the flagged content simply missed seeing it (e.g., you flagged a comment as abusive for attempting to rickroll, but the moderator handling the flag neglected to click the link).
The rickroll part even has a link to the video. hyper-neutrino, is this your work?
 
wait does that mean that's a valid reason to flag outside of chat?
 
Yes
You even get badges for it :P
If an answer is invalid, drop a comment saying "This answer is invalid, so I've flagged it for deletion", click "Flag" -> "In need of mod intervention" and say something along the lines of "This answer is invalid and should be deleted". Alternatively, flag spam or posts that are VLQ
 
Starting up the server again, for anyone interested in helping with the computer
(It's on 1.16.4, not 1.16.5, so you may need to switch the version in the launcher)
Finished a circuit to increment an 8-bit number!
 
9:52 PM
I'm curious, how exactly does this work?
 
I made a half adder using redstone comparators and torches
If you don't know redstone it's pretty neat
 
I need to look it up then
Oh wait they're just electricity
 
Basically yeah
 
This is really cool
 
I'll send a screenshot once I finish rearranging some stuff
The left row of lights is the input byte, the top one is the output
 
10:05 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm proud of you for saying this.
 
There is a cat in my incrementer
This is good news
I will name it Turing
 
I made a redstone computer back in the day, and the way i built a counter was with chained edge-triggered t flip-flops
 
You're still benefited by the flags because you may use builtins that would otherwise be more bytes without flags
but not a bad answer
 
@Wezl but I didn't use flags in the answer
Not in the one I linked
 
10:16 PM
I think their point is that, since Vyxal can offload some operators to flags, those other operators can fit in one byte rather than two
 
...I would say I feel like there's a shorter Jelly solution with Æp, but given 2 or 1 it straight up errors, so it may be longer to have to cover the base cases directly
 
Imagine not returning 0 if there isn't a previous prime
@RedwolfPrograms I'm still not sure I understand what you're saying. Is it that I could turn flags into operators?
 
Yeah, Æp (and the other sympy based functions) are annoying for any arguments other than normal
 
going to crack the source open to see if there's some third party function it calls that happens to error or if okay yeah it's external lmao
still silly that jelly doesn't catch the exception but at least it's excusable
 
@Lyxal Like if you had two one bit operators, x and y, and a flag z, whereas other languages use two bits for x, y, and z, Vyxal would still represent programs with only x and y in fewer bits
 
10:20 PM
@RedwolfPrograms yes, that's the point of flags
I'm very well aware of that
The linked answer doesn't use flags which is why I'd thought I'd share it
 
I think the answer's fine, I'm just demonstrating what Wezl said
 
So just to clarify: is it an observation or a language feature suggestion?
 
Observation
 
I don't know which it is, and either is fine
Oh okay
Cool
 
Its saying that any language that uses flags cannot properly compete with one without :P
 
10:23 PM
It's weird having two devices open on TNB because I hear a ping on both about a second apart
 
@RedwolfPrograms please make that into a youtoube channel
 
@Wezl ah yes, youtoube, my favourite meme consuming platform
 
^ I suppose this is your work @Lyxal
 
@user beautiful isn't it.
My influences are finally paying off
 
10:32 PM
I meant the star, but unfortunately, yeah
@Lyxal Also, your influences are your influences, not "finally paying off"
 
changed my pfp, but my subtlety and artisticness(?) will never be realized :'(
 
@user good
 
@Lyxal I've made the joke once, now never again :P
 
@Lyxal Good?! I hoped I'd you annoy with your own joke
 
@user quite the opposite
 
10:33 PM
Argh!!
 
Argh gotta deal with all this annoying quantum stuff in my redstone
 
How do you express that feeling of frustration through text? "Argh" doesn't cut it
@RedwolfPrograms I thought minecraft blocks were quanta
 
@user is the postfix influencing your mind?
 
Are you making a quantum computer?
@Wezl Nah, just these stupid math problems
 
@user There's a bug called quasiconnectivity that affects pistons and droppers
It's some weird quantum sorta stuff
 
10:35 PM
(was referring to the "you annoy")
 
Oh lol
Yeah, the Factor has turned my brain to mush
To be fair it was pretty mushy already
@RedwolfPrograms Sounds like quantum tunneling?
 
lol mine too
 
hey look it's one of our mods: λ
and here's hyper with a headband: ƛ
hey wait so does that mean HN can legally claim copyright on some of my answers which use λ?
 
Or you could copyright it first and get HN to change their pfp
 
It'd be trademark not copyright
 
10:45 PM
Then you could sue the hell out of mathematicians, computer scientists, historians, etc.
@RedwolfPrograms Oh right
Ha, this user's pfp looks like mine from a distance. I was wondering when I posted a question on Philosophy SE before seeing the username
 
SE's identicons look kinda ugly imo
 
@RedwolfPrograms They're used to represent you, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
:P
 
This computer is going to be very slow
Probably somewhere around two to four seconds per cycle
 
Wait, we have a subreddit? r/ppcg
2
 
10:50 PM
Well, I suppose that answers that :P
 
The top three messages are "we have a subreddit?" "anyone still here?" and "question about avocado"
Quality™
 
Looks like no one uses it, although the famous question about avocado has reached r/ppcg too
 
Aww my reddit premium expired.
Sad.
 
@RedwolfPrograms Scroll down and you see another avocado question and a post about evil sheep
 
Oh yeah, the sheep vs goat rivalry is a bit of CGCC history lost to the transcript :P
 
10:52 PM
Downgoat vs. ???
 
No, sheep (the animal) vs goat (the animal)
 
Just the animals?
Is there any context to this?
 
Um
I don't think so
Jun 12 '17 at 15:33, by Erik the Outgolfer
sheep = evil creatures of Satan
People just don't like sheep :P
 
...Interesting
 
I just realized I designed registers that don't actually store things
They just copy the input
I am a very smart person
 
10:57 PM
The tag wiki sounds wrong
It's described in the sense of a winning criterion, but no one thinks it as one these days
 
 
@Bubbler Maybe add "(not a winning criterion)"
 
@hyper-neutrino FTFY
 
How many general purpose 8-bit registers would you say are needed for a reasonably usable TC computer?
 
16+
 
10:59 PM
30k
 
@Bubbler as a whole is a pretty vague tag
 
16 you can fit in half a byte
 
Brainfrick has 30k memory cells
 
I'm talking about registers not memory
 

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