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12:08 AM
@Adám With the exception of Dyalog Ltd, I wonder where you can get a job primarily writing APL
@Pavel Just a few examples. We have customers that are getting quite desperate for APLers or people who are willing to learn APL.
@totallyhuman ftfy
12:37 AM
isn't that kotlin
ok no but it's not proton either
@HyperNeutrino is proton printing 0-99 instead of 1-100 intentional?
1:19 AM
@EriktheOutgolfer didnt work out for me
@ManishKundu (?<=abc)[.\n]*(?=xyz)
also btw i am using python 3
That'll match only the part on the inside
its producing no output
i tried this : re.search("(?<=abc)[.\n]*(?=xyz)","helloabchowarexyzyou")
@ManishKundu I forgot Python is a bit odd... tio.run/##DchBCoAgEADAe68IT7sRXromvsVkQcFc2Yyyz5tznNJq4Lz1Hs/…
1:29 AM
Thanks for helping
1:55 AM
@Pavel Does [.\n] work in any flavor?
Anyone want to try a quine in Forked for say 100 rep?
@MDXF How big are its Ints?
@H.PWiz Unspecified, my interpreter uses C's default int size
So probably 32-bit
@Adám But they're trying to use . as any character, not an actual dot.
2:09 AM
@MDXF Hm, I probably wouldn't try anyway
@Dennis Oh, but dots in brackets means actual dot. So they just want everything, including newlines?
@H.PWiz Why is the int size important?
@Adám That's precisely my point.
@MDXF Because arbitrary precision integers can be used to encode entire programs.
@Dennis doesn't it work everywhere else?
It does not. [.] is a dot.
I fixed the bug in my Allegro program! Woohoo
@Dennis Oh wow. So if the interpreter were in something that had unbounded ints (e.g. PARI) then that would work?
That's what, e.g., the Hexagony quine does.
Yeah, just convert from base 256
Oh wow
Idk how I never picked up on that
2:12 AM
@Dennis Just set (?s)
Yes, there are many ways. I was simply contesting that Python is weird because [.\n] doesn't work in it.
@Dennis So what does [.\n] do in Python?
@Dennis I could have sworn dots worked like that. Guess not.
@Pavel You're thinking about (.|\n).
God damn, after fighting with autocorrect for years to not correct DotA to dots, it now corrects dots to DotA.
2:16 AM
@Adám Match a dot or a linefeed.
@Dennis You lost me. How is that strange? Do other flavours take that dot as any-char?
It's not strange at all. That's my point.
It wasn't Dennis who claimed it was weird
50 mins ago, by Pavel
@ManishKundu I forgot Python is a bit odd... https://tio.run/##DchBCoAgEADAe68IT7sRXromvsVkQcFc2Yyyz5tznNJq4Lz1Hs/CUmehqUjMFY‌​T0RU58AAV2N@7wqBew5m0fqlUFSolHBn6c0MjGt0Ls/Qc
@Dennis Oh, my bad. Too tired, I guess. My chat activity diagram says its time to go to bed…
2:19 AM
Do other character classes work in []?
Yes, [\s\S] works.
@Pavel Yes
2:35 AM
Should I declare a winner to my polyglot challenge?
@Zacharý yeah go check Jo King's, I think I'm done with it
@Zacharý Do you want it to end?
@Mego it's already pretty much inactive
I'd add a note that I can redeclare a winner
Did I discover this (aka this) method of generating the Fibonacci sequence?
Or has someone else already used it?
I can't find it anywhere else but it seems so simple, I doubt I was the first to come up with it
2:39 AM
@MDXF No...? That's the standard iterative implementation with an extra variable
@Mego Oh then I just failed to recognize it. Can you link another answer that uses the same implementation?
@Mego Ah thanks
3:11 AM
My consecutive visits reset
despite the fact I joined over the app
im done
Just try again
@Christopher There's already an election message pinned
Though it should probably be edited
for the Q&A/nominations
3:16 AM
@trichoplax Wanna edit your pinned message to mention that it's election time and not nomination time anymore?
cc @Dennis
removes vote for mego
We could pin a new message, but we already have something election-related pinned, so we might as well just edit the already-pinned message
but that takes longer
you can remove the pin and pin a new message
@Christopher It's not really a time-sensitive thing
3:18 AM
Anyway I need to go to bed so I'll let someone else decide :P
@Mego rip my chance to be pinned :P
night guin
@Christopher Fighter of the dayguin
@Mego :|
@Mego Then everything changed when the dayguin Nation attacked. Only the Penguin, master of all two guins, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he vanished. A hundred years passed and my brother and I discovered the new Penguin, an nightguin named Mego.
3:31 AM
Cast your votes in the 2018 Moderator Election!
just :|
wtf (why the face)
Best of luck to everyone up for election!
Ah, sorry. I only read the transcript up to the ping.
3:35 AM
all good :P
This is a rather tough decision this time 'round.
mego didn't want to pin it
@ATaco I know right
Q: Print Pascal's Triangle

Jack BrownOverview Pascal's triangle is the series of rows of numbers, starting with 1, where each cell is formed by summing the two above it. Here's an example. Challenge and Scoring The challenge is simple: given a number, print that many rows of Pascal's Triangle in as few characters as possible. Low...

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

kshishooLargest output with smallest code: Using any language you prefer, output the most text you can with the shortest amount of code. (You are not allowed to use loops) All output characters should be english letters, punctuation marks or symbols found on common keyboards (Note that this does allow ...

4:40 AM
Woohoo just got one rep from an undownvote \o/
@ConorO'Brien Looks like Dr Seuss
4:58 AM
Attention: In under 24 hours two answers (1, 2) by Esolanging Fruit are about to become the first safe submissions to the new Programming Language Quiz. If anyone can crack them, please do!
5:09 AM
(nvm only the second one, I just cracked the first one)
why does this not work? :1 doesn't match L("1") so since it's OPTIONAL shouldn't it skip and try to match the separator?
@MDXF second one might be 123 but interperter is written in visual basic
@quartata trying it out, do you want credit if it works?
if it is 123 it's been deliberately obfuscated
the other digits are no ops
Interpreter is still running
5:17 AM
That Underload one is pretty nice
As soon as I noticed all matching [] and () I tried Underload
@MDXF probably stuck in a loop then
It was waiting for input. It's not 123
I think I tried that already but I'll check again
5:18 AM
hm hm hm
I can't find an interpreter
nor do I have the motivation to write one
use the bash script to convert it to unary
er sorry brainfuck
The bash script converts Brainfuck to Golunar
not the other way around
hm there has to be one out there since I've seen it in answers
@quartata answerers have just been manually converting it
Eh, I'll just be happy that I cracked the Underload one, ping me if this is indeed Golunar
gn o/
5:21 AM
I think Golunar -> Brainfuck is just convert decimal number to binary, lpad zeroes, chunk into 3s
It becomes <-],],++].-..[<]]<>[+..],[>.,][<.<.<[].++-.,]--<<.,>[,><][<<<.]>>],[[]+<,<->-,+--‌​+..<,-<],[+>-<-]>.<+[->[,,>->][],],+].<],[[>,>+.[.],-]-.[>++>-<+.+><<+<.>,<<]+[--]‌​+[-<..+>,<]<-<[<[+,<>[,+>,>[[]+-[<[][+<]>><.,..-><>>],>]<<<>+,[]<.-<[],++,[.[.,->‌​[>]+-.-++[-,[[.+],>++[-[+-<,-->,,,.-,..][--<++<[.]<.>,,,<[,[-,.].<[+,>[>->,-<<]-[<[‌​,<..[>+,]->].+-<. which isn't valid Brainfuck
wait nvm I forgot about the significant 1
I want to do a blog post about bootstrappin' brainfuck
@HyperNeutrino even with it's no good
Which surprised me because it was padded correctly
Oh wait it wasn't actually
one extra digit
Wait wait
It was
Forgot that bin starts with a 0b
unary spec is a little vague on whether it's big or little endian, that could make a difference
sample golunar program is big endian
so I guess that's that
6:22 AM
Does the second half of this comment appear backwards to anyone else?
What is going on there?
the link doesn't jump to a comment for me
Can we do a challenge about 'long language, short interpreter'
6:45 AM
that sounds familiar
Does anyone know if Windows comes with a C# compiler by default?
I don't think it does
but you can get a redistributable package
nvm just get a compiler
@Pavel IIRC MSBuild comes with the .NET framework, which current versions of windows come with
do we have a standalone msbuild tho
6:53 AM
@Pavel Yeah they do, just checked. Find it under C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework%ARCHITECTURE%\%VERSION%\MSBuild.exe
oh we do
visualstudio.com/ko/downloads there's build tools down there :D
nevermind the locale
@lol didn't even notice tbh, it changed to the right one when I loaded it
1 hour later…
8:05 AM
Is there a unicode character for an arrow with heads in all four cardinal directions?
@Mego Good idea. I see Dennis has dealt with it.
@Οurous Seems like no
9:03 AM
@Οurous No, but some are close: 🕂✢⧾🜊✣
1 hour later…
10:04 AM
@Downgoat haha same - I didn't know how much I would like C++
What development IDE(s) do you use regularly? -> strawpoll.me/15064026
@Οurous 🟇 ?
@Christopher Are you sure that it's UTC time?
@MDXF Have you tried not giving any input ('</dev/null')?
10:20 AM
@Solver What about Other?
Anyone try Headsecks?
(ref implementation link broken now)
I tried 7, doesn't work.
@Solver Notepad? Notepad++?
@Solver IntelliJ IDEA?
@Solver MATLAB? :)
@Solver Dyalog IDE, and sometimes RIDE.
10:54 AM
@Solver CleanIDE, and (already mentioned) NP++
haha - shows you my inexperience with development IDE's
@Solver you'll get so many IDEs as a response here that most developers won't ever hear of, let alone use.
Oh yeah and Xamarin
@Solver There certainly are a lot of them out there:
The following tables list notable software packages that are nominal IDEs; standalone tools such as source code editors and GUI builders are not included. These IDEs are listed in alphabetical order of the supported language. == ActionScript == == Ada == == Assembly == == BASIC == == C/C++ == == C# == == Common Lisp == == Component Pascal == == D == == Eiffel == == Fortran == == Groovy == == Haskell == == Haxe == Go to this page: Comparison of IDE choices for Haxe programmers == Java == Java has strong IDE support, due not only to its historical and economic ...
@Οurous probably a natural side-effect of the kinds of language used here
btw, is there an IDE for Jelly :D
11:15 AM
Esoteric IDE? Does it have Jelly?
lol a golfing ide would be great
@Solver That would be so cool. Imaging stepping though Jelly's built-ins and inspecting arguments as you go along…
Can anyone try some of the (lowest numbered) languages codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/40562/… ? (Again, for this)
@Adám and a proper way to go through documentation
11:28 AM
@totallyhuman I'd like to hover the mouse over any built-in and get a tooltip. Also, when stepping through the code, atom-by-atom, it should display all arguments and description of current atom.
Q: Magic square variation

Sal.CognatoI am reposting this from maths.stackexchage - maybe someone can find a solution using programming! https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2640001/magic-square-variation The reason I post it here is because I think it is impossible to solve!

I think this is intended to be PHP, but it is missing a starting <?php tag. — totallyhuman 1 min ago
php programs need that right?
...or not
11:56 AM
They do?
12:13 PM
Q: Can you outgolf Bill Gates?

Stewie Griffin Pancake sorting is the colloquial term for the mathematical problem of sorting a disordered stack of pancakes in order of size when a spatula can be inserted at any point in the stack and used to flip all pancakes above it. A pancake number P(n) is the minimum number of flips required ...

1:09 PM
@HyperNeutrino I actually gave up on the idea, because after refining my formula, I could do it in 2 bytes of Jelly ;-;
oh lol
Because I noticed that the nth layer is, in fact, a multiplication table of the nth row in Pascal's triangle with itself
And therefore getting the element on the nth layer, on the rth row and cth column is literally just binom(n, r) * binom(n, c)...
oh lol :/ that makes it a bit less of an interesting challenge than I originally thought :P interesting idea though
Thanks... I liked the idea a lot, but it is definitely pointless to post now that I found this...
My history teacher cannot teach this week so we left school earlier today :)
@Mr.Xcoder Don't worry; history repeats itself.
1:15 PM
I hate history nonetheless.
wait you don't have a concept of substitute teachers, you just leave class? o_O
We do have substitute teachers, but they won't come unless it's in the middle of the day. It was the last class so they thought they better let us go home :P
oh wow lucky D:
i wish i could leave school early lol
All the classes today sucked (except for maths): Chemistry (we haven't done anything today :|), Latin (ಠ_ಠ), Biology (ಠ_ಠ), German (ಠ_ಠ_ಠ)
@Mr.Xcoder Latin‽
1:26 PM
CMP: What should array[] mean in Proton? Currently it doesn't parse.
@HyperNeutrino I wish I could go back to school.
@Adám Yes, this thing
Well actually I wish I could just finish all of high school in the next year ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't really learn that much especially from science and math class lol.
@Mr.Xcoder I guessed that it wasn't a dance class. They teach you to read (or speak) Latin?
1:27 PM
@HyperNeutrino are arrays mutable? if so, create a new copy of the items
They are. That's what I was thinking. So a[] == a[:]?
@Adám Reading mostly, pronunciation rules, and the history of the Roman Empire :S
(sorry for the pings)
@HyperNeutrino I felt stupid spending three years in high school even though I took a University entry test during my second year — and passed with a higher score than my final HS score.
@Mr.Xcoder I like pings.
@HyperNeutrino Ugh...
1:29 PM
@HyperNeutrino seems so. IMO [:] is unintuitive.
or maybe deep copy? That'd get confusing quick though
I just realised array{} doesn't parse in Physica either lol
@Mr.Xcoder Latin Pronunciation? That doesn't exist.
@Adám lol I have to spend 4 whole years here and I'm not really even learning much from most of my courses lol. I started learning uni-year-1 level math stuff in grade 8 and understood it all and scored like 80%-tile among actual university students on the same test ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Adám Yes, there are some rules: ae -> æ -> e for example
I hate the fact that our system (the one in Romania) discourages independent learning...
Like I know how to derive some types of functions and at the same time they teach us what a function is ;-;
our system seems to discourage that quite a bit as well. it also seems to discourage individual thinking styles lol. i got a ton of math marks taken off just because i didn't do it the teacher's way (which, mind you, wasn't even the proper way half the time)
1:32 PM
And professors that say When you enter that door you only know what I taught yet and don't accept questions about topics we haven't reached yet
(teachers seem to not understand the concept of students knowing things that they weren't forced to memorize taught yet)
@HyperNeutrino yeah, I've just gotten used to do school the teacher way, not caring about correctness :p
@HyperNeutrino The only thing our system doesn't discourage (apart from laziness lol) is individual thinking, and I am very happy about that. All the grading sheets include a note saying that Any other correct solution should be awarded full marks
@dzaima the thing is like i'd rather my math mark drop 1-2% than me lose my form and forget how to do it properly
@Mr.Xcoder oo that's nice. that was mostly just my math teacher from last year and the year before; this year it's a lot better because my math teacher is an actual mathematician
@HyperNeutrino well then don't forget the proper way if the subject is important to you, and if anyone notices, blame school :p
1:36 PM
@HyperNeutrino my maths teacher just tells me to stay quiet in math lessons, I know way too much :p
well my math mark dropped from 98-99 to 97 and it's grade 10 math so the mark really doesn't matter that much
And now I hate the Romanian ministry of education because they've scheduled the national stage of both the Chemistry and the Physics olympiad in the same day week (they both last 1 week)!
@HyperNeutrino I don't want to be unsensitive, but students also often do not understand the value of following a well-constructed teaching program
1:37 PM
@Fatalize I agree with you, but I also think "well-constructed teaching program" doesn't suit the teaching program here :P
@Fatalize it's just very annoying to have the teacher tell you that you can't take a square root of a negative number :p
Of course, this is all based on my opinion, and I'm slightly very biased against the school system because it doesn't let me move quickly enough through the content to match my pace and also because they almost didn't let me skip grade 9 math
@dzaima Well in |R you can't, so most likely the teacher is right
@HyperNeutrino We are not allowed to skip grades under any circumstance.
ooh rip
1:40 PM
Sure it's fun dealing with i² = -1 and all, but if you don't properly teach what complex numbers are, what roots are, etc., it's just something you'll know that will ultimately be useless in your future work
The valuable part is understanding how these things are defined and why
@HyperNeutrino (related) for the 9th grade exams coming up my speech part is about why I think school is horrible :p
lol :P
\o/ It's my first Jelly answer I've written in less than 1 minute since I started
where I live, they won't let us take any root of a negative number, for example the third root of -8 doesn't exist, but the negative of the third root of 8 does
1:43 PM
also ŒḂÐf -> fU$
we haven't done third roots \o/
@dzaima I taught my 5yo that + and × are commutative while – and ÷ are not. Wonder what happens if he starts asking questions in school…
Q: Length of the Longest Palindromic Substring

BijanA palindrome is a string which is the same when read forwards and backwards. For example "racecar" is a palindrome, but "Racecar" is not. A substring is a contiguous set of characters in a larger string. Your task is to write a program or method which takes a string or character array as input an...

@HyperNeutrino Nor have I... BAH
We haven't even defined non-natural-number powers.
@dzaima my primary school teacher once said that 1 is prime.
1:45 PM
neither have we lol
@Mr.Xcoder In Denmark, normal school is 10 or 11 years + 3 years high school. I went to school a total of 9 years before going to University.
I've been in school for 8 years now
on my 9th year right now
@Adám o_O Here there's a new thing called "Grade 0", then 8 mandatory years + highschool, which is split in two parts: 2 mandatory years + 2 optional ones (which everyone does because otherwise you lose certain privileges)
@Adám he'll discover lied to him when he learns about matrix multiplication - it's not commutative :)
I think Grade 0 is similar to kindergarten here (german based term)
1:47 PM
@Mr.Xcoder Our grade zero is called reception in the UK
@Adám I remember some post somewhere in which a student was subtracted marks because they illustrated something like 3×5 as 5 lots of 3 things instead of 3 lots of 5 things.......
@Mr.Xcoder Yeah, 0, 1…9, 10 is optional, then 11–13.
@HyperNeutrino Oh there 4 years of kindergarten here before Grade 0.
@dzaima kinda depressing
@Mr.Xcoder how many years old until you go to kindergarten?
1:49 PM
well that makes sense, because multiplication is only commutative in certain fields(/rings? idk), but I doubt that's the reason the teacher did it
And I hate 0/0 doesn't make sense instead of explaining why it doesn't make sense.
@EriktheOutgolfer 3.
@ngn Or quaternions/octonion math…
@Solver as illustrated by the ellipsisessieses at the end of the sentence :p
@Adám what are quaternions :(
An extension to complex numbers
1:50 PM
@Solver Like complex numbers but 4D instead of 2D.
I haven't reached your heights of education yet :)
@Solver I haven't either but I've seen some youtube videos about quaternions :p
@HyperNeutrino That's a BS reason, and I doubt that any math teacher that would mark off points for such a stupid reason would even consider the non-commutativity of multiplication in certain fields
@Solver Shh, you're in grade 9, i'm in grade 8.
1:51 PM
how old are people in grade 8?
@dzaima What is the plural of ellipsis…… ellipses is the plural of ellipse
@Solver ~14 yo.
Q: How to pluralize ellipsis?

programmer5000It's obviously ellipsisessieses. Inspired by a chat message. Your challenge Given a list or space or comma-separated string of words, ellipsisessiesesify them. To ellipsisessieses-ify a word: Start with the word. Add the first letter of the original word to the end. Add 2 of the last letter...

@dzaima NARS APL has built-in support.
@Solver Quartenions are used in 3D engines and things like this. Octonions are mostly useless afaik
1:52 PM
@Mr.Xcoder so I'm in grade 7 :D
i'm 13
@Mego yeah I certainly agree that the teacher's just being dumb removing those marks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think I was docked marks for that once so I just did it the way the teacher wanted to get marks lol
In my experience, such teachers are there to fill a seat, not because they are good at math
Ellipses is the plural form of two different English words: Ellipse, a type of conic section in geometry Ellipsis, a three-dot punctuation mark (…) Ellipses may also refer to: Ellipses, a French publication under the direction of Aymeric Chauprade == See also == Ellipse (disambiguation) Ellipsis (disambiguation)...
well people actually good at math wouldn't go teach high school grade <10 math lol
CMP: What is your dream job?
1:53 PM
@Mego My school is known for being selective, so we have some decent teachers in maths and science
@Mr.Xcoder Explaining why requires way more knowledge than necessary to deal with simple fractions. Attempting to explain every detail is impossible and unnecessary
We have some of the best science teachers in the country (except for biology), but the maths ones aren't as good :)
@Mr.Xcoder probably freelance programmer because that way I can do things at my own pace and I don't have to work with people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Adám that's why the j is case-sensitive there :P
@Adám I know there is a correct pluralization, I just wanted to say that for the challange :p
1:54 PM
@Fatalize I know what explaining requires.
@Mr.Xcoder Full time APL teacher, I think.
Otherwise you'd have to teach set theory to 6yo children so that they can use integers
@Mr.Xcoder software engineer/maybe some form of manager
@Mr.Xcoder So you'd also know why it's not a good idea to explain it to 14 year olds, most of whose don't have the tools to understand any of it
@Mr.Xcoder What should we answer if we have a job?
@Fatalize Your job isn't necessarily your dream job.
1:57 PM
@EriktheOutgolfer Apparently to distinguish 1J2 which is 1i2 and 1j2 which is 1i0j2.
@Adám exactly
@Fatalize Yes, but I think that a teacher should know the fuzzy outlines of the future, or at least be able to google them.
@Fatalize I wish I was taught (axiomatic) set theory when I was 14
> Imagine that you have zero cookies and you split them evenly among zero friends. How many cookies does each person get? See? It doesn't make sense. And Cookie Monster is sad that there are no cookies. And you are sad that you have no friends.
@Mr.Xcoder Rentier with many assets then, so that I can do whatever the hell I want
1:58 PM
@Fatalize IMO it's better to have heard why it's impossible rather than just know that it's impossible. Explaining extraneous things for those that can comprehend it is one of the reasons my chemistry teacher is awesome
no fancy math stuff required, just cookies and cookie monster \o/
@HyperNeutrino IIRC, my son said one because every number divided by itself is 1.
@dzaima Most of the time people will not be able to understand the real reason why it's impossible
^^^^, but it's not technically impossible
hm that would make sense for first thought
1:59 PM
@Fatalize many users of APL still don't understand it :)

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