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6:00 PM
Preparing for Thursday's webinar:
 
Punishment for using Windows :)
 
I would press "OK"
 
@Adám Have you tried a saner operating system.
 
Well the only advantage for him might be APL-friendly stuff on windows?
 
@Mr.Xcoder @Pavel That's not Windows' fault. I'm making the GUI.
 
6:02 PM
oh
 
@Adám Oh, it's just not finished yet
 
how many times I've said "oh" already? EDIT: 11
 
@Pavel Well, something must have gone wrong. I did expect a question there.
 
@labela--gotoa 11 times
 
@Mr.Xcoder You were 1 second faster than my edit
or 2?
 
6:03 PM
That's what we call "Ninja'd" :P
 
I'll remember it :P
 
OIC, I'd changed to lowercase and the :Select was looking for uppercase. D'oh.
 
Ninjago is a lego sub-brand IIRC
 
ngn
6:05 PM
somebody should count how many times "pages of" has been said
 
meta-message-count
anyway gtg o/
 
@Mr.Xcoder You need quotes.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Vi.Ultimate crackpot In minimum number of ASCII bytes, write a plain text "physics research article" in English that scores each item in The Crackpot Index at least once. I'm not sure if such thing is on-topic here or on the Puzzling.

 
6:06 PM
Can those interested come to Language Development, please? I want to request feedback / ideas for Physica's syntax and don't wanna clutter TNB even more.
 
@Mr.Xcoder It's more ontopic than most TNB discussion
 
Ok, I guess I'll just ask here then
CMP: What should # do in Physica?
Note that infix stuff is very hard to implement given the current transpiler
 
depends on the language
ikr
 
@Mr.Xcoder Comment
 
Currently they're comments
 
6:10 PM
it's about physics, but, is it a golfing language?
 
No.
 
ah
then i'll go for comments
 
#!/usr/bin/env physica
 
We need one more "sponsor" for Best of 2017
Anyone interested?
 
@Mr.Xcoder I've committed to 4.
 
6:11 PM
weren't there enough people?
 
I'm kinda poor rep-wise rn, and I already have a 500-rep outstanding indefinite bounty
 
I'm also rep poor, I don't even have 500, so not meh :(
 
@totallyhuman There were, but MagicOctopusUrn didn't respond although he did come to TNB, so I'll take that as a "I step back"
 
Still waiting for @WheatWizard to do Damerau-Levenshtein in brain-flak.
 
I'm rep-rich: 23,750. 500 is nothing to me.
 
@Mr.Xcoder Yep. 500 rep to do it in BF
 
BF meaning Brain-flak, not brainfuck
 
Yes
 
Someone mentioned brain-flak?
 
@Adám The fun fact is that the last post to be rewarded is mine :P
 
6:14 PM
oh right dj gets summoned too easily
 
@Mr.Xcoder I wouldn't mind giving you rep.
 
1
A: List of bounties with no deadline

Pavel500 rep for a Brain-Flak answer to Balance the Brackets The challenge is clearly brain-flak related, and should have a brain-flak answer, though this is understandably difficult.

 
@DJMcMayhem Seriously, you have a notification on things being said?
 
@Adám Ik, I was just saying that if you would, I'd overtake you...
 
@Pavel Honestly, far and away the hardest part of that would be the swapping
@Adám I will neither confirm nor deny that :P
 
6:16 PM
@DJMcMayhem Well, it is pretty easy to set up. The chat bot in the APL Orchard scans for all kinds of stuff.
 
@DJMcMayhem then I'll have to report you to the authorities for spying :P
(seriously though, I don't think it's that hard to make some code which can read who posts what real-time even when one isn't in the room at all)
 
ngn
@Mr.Xcoder I assume this is the Physica you are talking about - https://github.com/Mr-Xcoder/Physica
So it has phycial constants built in? I'm intrigued.
 
Are bots actually forbidden here are they only not allowed to speak?
 
@ngn Yes, it has / will have. Currently it has some constants and very few (mostly useless) built-ins, but I am planning on pushing some major changes to GH shortly :D
 
ngn
@Mr.Xcoder @Mr.Xcoder how do you plan to diambiguate name clashes (or rather letter clashes)?
 
6:19 PM
@ngn What name clashes?
 
yay double pings
@Adám well this room has strict rules but I'm a bit unclear on that, chatiquette doesn't mention anything
 
@Adám You know, that's actually an excellent question. I'm not sure.
My personal opinion is that listening bots would be perfectly fine, but I can't speak for all of the ROs, so maybe it would be worth a meta question.
Or I could ask some people in the RO room what they think
 
You have a RO room ಠ_ಠ
 
@DJMcMayhem Don't you have to know these things if you're a king mod, ya know?
 
technically he's not a mod yet :P
 
6:22 PM
@Mr.Xcoder Yes, because it isn't polite to discuss suspensions in public
 
And why do ROs discuss suspensions? Shouldn't that be a mod's job?
 
@Mr.Xcoder Why not? That only makes sense.
 
RO? :P Another abbr i don't know
 
ngn
@Mr.Xcoder well, for instance "e" could be the base of the natural logarithm or the elementary charge
 
there are also kicks, it's not polite to discuss about them in public either
 
6:23 PM
@Mr.Xcoder If it's because of something that happened on main, yes. But sometimes it's because of behavior in chat
 
@labela--gotoa Room owner
 
@labela--gotoa Room Owner
 
ah, ok
thanks
 
@labela--gotoa Like a mini-mod for one chat room only
 
a list of all shorts used in chat would be nice ಠ_ಠ
@DJMcMayhem I know, I'm RO of one room
 
6:24 PM
ask Adám then :P
 
@ngn I'll name the elementary charge another way.
 
he has a list on meta
 
29
Q: What are the PPCG specific abbreviations and terms?

AdámNewcomers to PPCG are often compelled to ask what many of our abbreviations and terms mean. Let us list them here so this information always will be easily available.

Courtesy of Adam
 
ah, thanks
(why I didn't search for it myself ಠ_ಠ)
 
it's hard to search for a lot of stuff :P
 
6:25 PM
I meant, I didn't search for it...
 
don't worry
this is a chat room, not regular Q&A
 
ngn
@Mr.Xcoder unit suffixes to numbers would be a great feature for this language :)
 
Indeed... Currently I'm using all the units from the International System of Units.
But I think I'll make a v2 sometime, which will hopefully have this feature.
 
ngn
@Mr.Xcoder so, if I want to name a variable "a" would it clash with the physical constant "a" (I'm sure there must be something called that in physics...)
 
:42838186
umm wtf
 
6:31 PM
@ngn Yes. You are encouraged not to use variables that conflict constant names.
 
:42838212
 
what the heck is this
 
@labela--gotoa you can't reply like that...
 
@EriktheOutgolfer ?!?!!
 
ngn
@Mr.Xcoder that's true for any programming language, actually
 
6:32 PM
@labela--gotoa There has to be an actual message text for pinging to work.
 
I written two letters, they turned into a mention to Mr.Xcoder and after a second they turned into a number
 
@ngn Except those without reserved names.
 
@Adám I did not mention anybody
ಠ_ಠ
 
there's the sandbox to test stuff too ;)
 
i know, but what the heck, why did this happen
i written "^^"
 
6:34 PM
caret reply
 
@labela--gotoa That automatically responds to the message two steps up.
 
ngn
@Adám we've talked about this... apl makes a hard distinction between its internal stuff and the rest
 
you have a userscript
 
oh, okay...
 
@ngn Not all APLs. ngn/apl doesn't.
 
6:34 PM
I think I would have to uninstall some userscripts....
 
ngn
@Adám but in reality language/libraries/user programs are one continuum
 
ngn
so, it's important to think about some namespacing mechanism early
 
I'm making a language where my nick would run correctly and is based on label-goto. Actually, it's named gotofuck/labelfuck.
no, didn't meant to send it
 
uh, you can delete messages
 
6:37 PM
@EriktheOutgolfer I didn't meant to send it yet
 
uh, you can edit messages
 
yeah...
that doesn't help much lol
nvm
 
Question: Should I make Needs["module_name"] necessary for importing Physica modules, and Requires["module_name"] for something else?
I could use Requires for Python modules
 
I think I won't make them do something else, since that could cause confusion. But I'm not expert in this
 
ngn
I have a cunning plan: post a codegolf challenge "output the fundamental physical constants", and when they come up with a short solution, I'll publish it in a theory of everything -> Nobel prize -> money and glory for the rest of my life :)
 
6:39 PM
I'll have good docs, so...
 
@ngn -1 that would be a bad challenge
 
ngn
@EriktheOutgolfer why?
 
@Mr.Xcoder Wants
Desires
 
No... why u do this to me
 
6:40 PM
@ngn like, just output a list of constants?
 
Needs["help"]
.-.
 
Wooo:
 
nice! :P
 
What are you writing the GUI in? APL? Python? Something else?
 
@Mr.Xcoder APL.
 
ngn
6:42 PM
@EriktheOutgolfer yeah, they are real numbers measured with very high precision, and nobody knows exactly why they are such (except religious people with their "fine-tuning" bullshit)
 
APL has... interesting features
 
Uses
no, sorry, I should stop
 
@Mr.Xcoder Is it strange that APL lets you make GUIs?
 
Requires["module"]ForSurvival
 
Uses is actually quite good and it's golfy :D
@Adám No, it's not strange.
 
6:44 PM
what sensible language doesn't let you make GUIs, Python has Tkinter, Ruby has Shoes, Lua has LÖVE, etc.
 
Brainfuck?:)
 
Swift has... UIKit
 
except most don't have it implemented in a non-sucky way
 
@flawr is that sensible at all
 
yes
it makes perfect sense
 
6:45 PM
I'm making a language that's one of main targets is to make easy HTML GUI's so heh
 
its name tells you exactly what the language is :P
 
@Mr.Xcoder I'm actually using a msgbox cover function which has three levels of UI. If on Windows without a remote IDE connected, it will use WinForms (as in the image). If remote IDE connected (e.g. default on macOS), then it tells the RIDE to display a HTML/JS dialog. If no GUI is present (TTY), it will use STDERR/STDIN.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Purely functional languages aren't great with UIs, generally
 
@Οurous If they are truly pure, then they cannot have UI.
 
But what about functional languages that are used for UIs?
 
6:48 PM
@labela--gotoa Impure.
 
relies on the state of the UI
that's why Haskell has monads
 
@Adám Pure as in language style, not functional purity.
 
CodeNote (my language) in it's pure version has UI management stuff, so... .-. no imports needed for this
 
But... Is it even possible to have a truly pure functional language (functional purity) on a real computer?
 
6:50 PM
@Οurous no, pretty sure he means functional purity
@moonheart08 sure
 
@quartata and Clean has uniqueness annotated types.
 
i don't understand this conversation .-.
 
well ok
barring cosmic rays
that's a fair point
 
@quartata I know, I meant language style though.
 
oh gotcha
 
6:51 PM
@ngn Lol is your pic on GitHub transparent?
 
@moonheart08 I think so, but they would be very boring. Outputting to the screen is a side-effect.
 
ngn
@Mr.Xcoder I don't remember, I think it was white
 
Oh ok
 
@Mr.Xcoder single white pixel.
 
Oh... I should update the website
 
ngn
6:53 PM
@Adám yep, that's what it is
 
@Adám wouldn't modifying memory be a side effect too?
 
0
Q: Are bots allowed in The Nineteenth Byte?

AdámPeople seem to know that active chat bots are prohibited in TNB, but I don't see that written anywhere. Is this indeed so? And if so, are pure listening bots that never speak also prohibited? These could be useful for custom notification.

 
@ngn @Mr.Xcoder No, actually it is a single transparent pixel.
@moonheart08 Hm.
 
A bot linking to a questions about if bots are allowed?.
 
6:54 PM
Feed != bot
 
ngn
@Adám hm... it looked white in firefox but when I downloaded it, indeed it's transparent
 
@AdmBorkBork How is NMP not a bot?
 
It is a feed.
 
@labela--gotoa Because it's just a feed. There's no logic or anything behind it. chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/240/…
 
@AdmBorkBork ookay? So it's a built-in SE function?
fine...
 
6:59 PM
Yeah. SE Chat has a feature where you can automatically "post" messages based on something like an RSS feed. These are tied back to actual users, but there's no interactivity or logic associated with them. It's like how the Active Questions tab keeps updating, but you wouldn't call that a bot.
 
If bots were allowed, wouldn't @Dennis be running a TIO bot? :P
 
Dennis definitely wouldn't.
 

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