@HyperNeutrino but will it blend

?

also 32-byte python 3 quine works in proton 2 :D (not on TIO because I just fixed it and I won't ask Dennis to pull again until majorly significant changes are made :P)

Since I just bought one, the remarkable tablet is $100 off today (it's a digital e-ink notebook that runs linux and open source software).

@HyperNeutrino I've pulled it anyway.

Oh okay thanks :D well in that case, multi-argument functions work as well now :)

CMP: Should print(1) print 1 or is 1.0 fine?

(assuming --sympy is off)

@HyperNeutrino It should print 1

Proton 2 is so much faster than Proton 1 lol

Printing a float instead of integer sounds obnoxious

@HyperNeutrino should definitely print 1, no questions asked

ok

Should print(2.0) print 2 or 2.0?

>_>

because proton2 currently has no way of distinguishing them because they're all mpmath.mpf

@HyperNeutrino Basically, ints should print ints and floats should print floats

@cairdcoinheringaahing SOGL, 7 bytes: 3*.I4*Ν

except if x.0 automatically gets coerced to x

hm... I'd need to add a distinction for int and float then, which I currently don't have...

@HyperNeutrino What would print(1/2) print?

0.5 with sympy off, 1/2 with sympy on.

OK, in that case, printing 1.0 is fine

Because everything is a float

yeah

@mınxomaτ I must have one of those.

sympy on and sympy off

@Dennis ikr

I just got an idea for a challenge using a generalisation of Pascal's triangle: Pascal's pyramid :)

I've drawn some inspiration from a discrete maths problem over on Brilliant :)

And o_O the elections start in less than an hour

I can't wait for them to be over

lol true

(darn it, I have to wait until I get home to vote. It starts like 30 minutes after I leave school wifi zone)

I'll be right here sets alarm at 22:00 :)

why all that rush? voting should be a calm, thorough process

TZs yay (I got confused for about 0.3 seconds)

@EriktheOutgolfer well the last nomination happened days ago lol

@EriktheOutgolfer We've had plenty of time to think about who to vote lol

but still

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ you do have a point

@mınxomaτ Link please

@Pavel remarkable.com ...

I might wait until tomorrow or even closer to the end of election time

@mınxomaτ Ty

CMP: What should be implemented next in Proton 2.0? Current ideas include lists/sets/tuples (and maybe dicts though those are slightly different), list indexing (a[b]), subreferencing (a.b), or declaring functions.

@HyperNeutrino why

@EriktheOutgolfer to think about it more and read through all of their questionnaire questions a few more times ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk yet, I might vote later tonight or later this week. It depends on whether or not I am absolutely sure of who I want to vote by tonight.

CMP: If I found a formula for <the thing you are required calculate in the challenge>, should I let the answerers find it and just give the normal description of <the thing you are required calculate>, or just include it in the challenge?

@mınxomaτ Oh it's a pun - I love it - plus it looks ideal

I wonder how much they had to pay for the domain.

lol I have not been in JHT for so long :p

We haven't done any training in a while

yeah

Actually, we did so a week ago

17 minutes until election!

(And yes I encourage people to take their time.)

*15

I'm not gonna vote immediately.

@HyperNeutrino @Mr.Xcoder Any comments on my ad?

@Adám Oh, I did you make an ad?

Oh, this...

ninja'd

I found it in my inbox, somehow managed to overlook it

Looks good.

@Adám I like it, but would you mind keeping the original text as-is, if you can still edit? (I'm talking about Want to post competitive answers or improve your Jelly skills?)

I am waiting for some more feedback before editing in though...

CMP: This or this?

I think make the white text larger.

Also imo the text in your ad should be a bit larger, for clarity.

Lol ninja'd.

@Mr.Xcoder OK. Should I brighten the entire thing? I can make the jellies look more transparent.

Yes, if possible.

Is the moderator election page down or is it me?

It's you. And everyone else. Yes, it's down (for now).

tfw... ninja'd

...twice

@PhiNotPi Looks like you're not the only one :P

hi all!

Hey! I haven't seen you in a while

yeah that's true

been kinda busy and couldnt find the time to golf anymore

working as blockchain developer nowadays so thats fun!

That's cool

Blockchain as in cryptocurrency? Which one?

nah, crypto's are just one use case of the blockchain technology, i'm using the Ethereum blockchain to write smart contracts for government purposes

specifically in the accountancy branche ^^

good to see you're still here, how've you been doing?

Great! :)

I actually am running for mod right now. The election just started (although it's broken)

I haven't been writing as many challenges though

ah that's cool! i'll throw you a vote when the election page is back up

how's the community? still as lovely as 1-2 years ago?

has dennis been outgolfed already? :P

I bet they are rigging the elections.

@Adám One laaast thingy... Since the aspect of that first sentence is interrogative, can you pleeeease append a question mark?

@BassdropCumberwubwubwub Still as lovely and great as it used to be back when I joined :)

I see it as a continuing sentence, it doesn't finish at "Jelly skills" but continues to the last line

I want it to have the same text as this, if possible. Namely, a question mark after the first sentence and an exclamation mark after the last one.

that kerning is so nice

That's better :) I'll edit that in, and leave a comment giving you credit and asking for feedback. Thanks!

@Mr.Xcoder Anything else to fix while I add the ! ?

Let me see...

@Adám Yeah, perhaps you can make Join us at Jelly HyperTraining! bigger and / or bold.

@Mr.Xcoder I think that if I make it bigger, it doesn't need bolding too.

I did say and / or

ಠ_ಠ why is my kerning message starred

Would you like me to unstar it?

i like being starred

i dont like random things being starred

Is the election link supposed to work, or is it meant to be broken?

@Οurous It is supposed to work

Ah

@betseg ._.

@betseg you did this to yourself

yup.

> Yes, we do look at every error. We even try to fix some of them.

@Adám That’s great :-)

@Οurous @Pavel chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240?m=25365994#25365994

@betseg I was wondering if we had a "test post, don't upvote" message.

Apparently we do.

@Οurous I suppose it has a gazillion upvotes?

@Adám codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/14696/59487

@SEJPM reddit.com/r/pics/comments/92dd8/test_post_please_ignore - that number, when vote adjustment was more of a thing, was very high.

O_o Typo again!

I am afraid I am going to have to roll back. It already got 2 downvotes!

@Mr.Xcoder Here's a +1 to encourage you not to

I like this

Hmmm...

@Mr.Xcoder The new one looks a lot better imho.

@Mr.Xcoder have another +1. I didn't up the first one because it was ugly IMO.

Cool, re-rolled back.

@Adám Would it be possible to spell JELLY with these, preferably on a transparent background? I think that would make a really cool logo.

@Dennis I think he said he ate them all already

I love the new version, I kinda don’t understant why it got some downvotes at first

Downvotes condense spontaneously from the ether. I much prefer the new version

Well I’ve made the first version in like ~5 minutes during a homework break so naturally this one looks much, much better

Having said that, in general I would prefer the option to post multiple images and the ad software pick one at random each time

^

I don't dislike the first one - I just like the new one a lot more

@Dennis I did collect all the letters to do that, but since I didn't need it, I ate them instead of photographing them. I also thought clear letters would be cool:

@trichoplax I wasn’t talking to you specifically :) It was just a note.

@Mr.Xcoder I didn't think you were - just noting too :)

@Adám Looks nice, but not the best choice for a transparent background... So you just bought these and took a photo?

@Dennis Yep. And then we had a ~2 hour discussion about the kosher-ness of gelatin.

I prefer not to think about what gelatin is made of.

where did you get thsoe and where can I get them @Adám

Yay, elections!

WOOT

\o/

@Dennis The tech: I bought two bags of Haribo jelly letters, borrowed my wife's phone (Nexus 5X), put the letters on the back of a Corning-ware plate on a low wall in the shadow on a half-cloudy day. Photo tweaked with Windows 10 Photos, then overlaid with text+special effects in Word, screenshot and finally cropped and resized in Paint.NET.

@Adám Dear god, you used word as a photo manipulation tool?

@Pavel No, as a 3D text composer.

@Adám That sounds like it might work with the tools I have available (no Nexus 5X and no Windows, but still). Now I just have to figure out how to import edibles.

@Pavel The APL Orchard ad is also made in Word, including the on-table text:

@Dennis Do they not have jelly candies at a nearby store to you?

@Dennis I just noticed that now, came into chat, figured nobody else was talking about it since i was late

lol

@Riker You're vegetarian, right? Do you eat fish?

I highly doubt it. Haribo isn't a big player here.

@Adám yes, not often tho (I just don't like it >.>)

@Dennis That's OK, I'll buy some more and spell Jelly for you. Colour preferences?

I assume it's kosher, so it probably doesn't have that much maet

@Riker Kosher jelly is fish based. Other kinds of jelly are pig or cow based.

ah

@Riker Right. I don't know where in California you are, but at least in LA it should be possible to get these.

@Adám ~1h from LA

are you in CA?

@Riker No, UK.

UK IIRC

good day to all

@Riker Have you been eating jelly all this time, not knowing its true contents?

@Pavel no I just hate gummy bears

I can't remember last time I ate them

@ThomasWard o/

It's not just gummy bears. It's all gelatin-based foods, which is actually quite a lot of stuff.

@Pavel now you have me wondering... is there such a thing as vegan jelly / gelatin...

just because curiosity is evil

@Pavel I'm aware, so I try to avoid gelatin

@ThomasWard Yes. Some Jelly is made without gelatin entirely. It may be really rare, depending on where you live, though.

but I'm not quite as active as I really should be

@ThomasWard If you can find it, it's probably based on Agar, which is red algae.

@Adám Thank you! It's kinda hard to visualize for me, so no real color preference. Just not too clear for a white background.

@Pavel I prefer jam/preserves from the local farms in my county here in this state, so I wonder if those are vegan. Not that I care, I'm just now stuck on the 'curiosity' path :P

whcih is your fault so I'mma blame you for it :p

@Riker I think you have a fairly good chance at Pico Glatt Mart, 9427 W. Pico Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90035 (corner of Elm Dr. & Pico Blvd.). I can't spot them on the pictures from inside the store, though.

@ThomasWard Such are usually thickened with pectin, which is vegan.

@ThomasWard Same, but you can't make chewy candies out of just jam.

@Adám O_o

what

@Pavel Actually, I once spent a lot of time and sugar experimenting, and was eventually able to make proper chewy candies from just white sugar and water. A very involved process though.

@Riker Your best bet on where to pick up the jelly letters I used for the JHT ad.

@Adám And they weren't sticky or anything? Like if you put them on something and then picked it back up, none of it would get left behind?

Because if so, I need instructions, dammit.

@Pavel They were not completely dry, but I packed them in small pieces of baking paper, and that worked fine. The same really applies to commercial chewy candies. Their inner wrappers are some type of coated let-go thing. Consistently came off in one piece.

@Adám So how did you make them?

I need to start producing large quantities as soon as possible

@Pavel It was like 7 years ago… I used to supply local deprived children in a remote village where they had no access to processed candy:

Well looks like I'm experimenting with sugar for the rest of the day.

@Pavel IIRC, I mixed sugar and water on a pan, then boiled it until dark brown and so little water content that it would become completely hard if cold (throw drops on thick steel to test). Then I added water to the super-heated substance (watch out!) and carefully dissolved the candy-mass. Then I boiled it in until it had the right water content to turn chewy. I poured out on a large baking paper, and then at the right moment, cut, separated, wrapped, and froze them.

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Add to list of interesting off-topic TNB discussions: Confectionery

CMC: Given a list of integers, return the two which, when multiplied together, give the greatest value. Note that this is not always the two greatest integers, consider [-20, -5, 10, 8] which should give (-20, -5).

@Pavel APL (Dyalog Unicode), 35 bytes ⊃b/⍨(⌈/=⊢)×/¨b←,a⊣(1 1⍉a)←0⊣a←∘.,⍨⎕

@Pavel Jelly, 5 bytes: ŒcPÐṀ

@DJMcMayhem Yikes!

I've been trying to think of a good way to do it in C# Linq for a while now

@Adám Jelly is incredible

Explanation please

@Adám I can basically understand what the individual pieces are, but I'm having some trouble putting it all together

@Pavel Husk, 4 bytes: ►ΠṖ2

Thanks

@Pavel Œc all pairs, ÐṀ Return the one with the highest... Product

@H.PWiz Fails

Husk doesn't like spaces in input

Ah

@H.PWiz also fails if you remove the spaces in Pavel's example (E:NoOutput)

oop wait

that was tio.run's fault

it exploded :)

nevermind!

hehehe

oh wow, mod election is STV

Always is

TIL

@betseg STV?

@Adám Single Transferable Vote

It's when you rank the candidates instead of just voting for your favorite, which is First-Past-The-Post

votes, then returns to the shadows

@DJMcMayhem wow, is that an ASCII character?

in jelly?

Did you know? All printable ascii is works in Jelly! /s

@Adám did you try building the pairs with ,\ ?

@ngn How?

clash of the titans: APL edition

@Adám I don't know exactly, it just seems promising...

@ngn Of course. To you, everything seems like it needs / and/or \. When one only has a hammer… :-D

@ThomasWard went to sleep after noticing the voting page doesn't give an error anymore

@Adám ,a⊣(1 1⍉a)←0⊣a←∘.,⍨⎕ -> ⊃,/(1∘↓,¨¨¯1↓,\)⎕

@ngn Nice. But I still don't like this entire approach.

Wait, TIO classes Emojicode as a recreational language? Would you call an OO high-level multi-paradigm language "recreational" just because its keywords are emoji?

I'm triggered :p

@Adám if you don't like it and it's shorter, you should start liking it or move on to popularity contests ;)

@ngn I mean, I like it better than mine because it is shorter, but I'd rather scrap the entire thing and fine a much shorter alternative.

@Adám maybe something with @ ?

@ngn I really don't see how. An alternative approach would be sorting and then comparing the products of the first two and the last two. Those are the only candidates.

@Adám that's a much better idea

@Adám ⌈/(2×/⍋⌷¨⊂)

@ngn OK, that's the max product. How do we get the two nums?

@Adám ah, pardon me...

@ngn Btw, I've been adding some cool (imho) apl tips here and here. Feel free to add any that fit into their themes.

@Riker I've never seen one in the wild before!

@Adám we probably shouldn't hijack this room for apl chatter. I tend to use =⍨ and ≠⍨ instead of ⍬⍷list and ⍬⍳list but yours are more train-friendly and also work on enclosed arrays

@ngn Ah, but yours work on high-rank arrays. And we're not hijacking. The room is quiet and we're discussing golfing tips. That's about as on-topic as it gets.

@ngn Added those.

@Pavel @Dennis APL is quite easy to type if you've got the right keyboard layout. You wouldn't call Chinese a recreational language, would you?

@Adám I managed to shorten it a little: ((</×/)⌷⊢)2 2⍴¯2⌽⍋⌷¨⊂

@ngn That's pretty neat. WIBNI we had a sorting primitive, though? E.g. monadic ∧←⊂∘⍋⌷⊢ … Also, I keep thinking that </×/ should be combinable into an inner product.

@Adám you can create another encoding if you feel like it

@ngn Huh? For the sorting, you mean?

@Adám That depends. Are we talking about Sclipting? :P

@Adám yeah, count the frequences of primitives and common sequences (like the one for sort) in existing ppcg answers, build a huffman tree, publish an encoding, and apl might become the most successful language here :)

@ngn Yeah, yeah, we've been down that path before. I think someone wanted to do that for Jelly. But no, I want proper sorting primitives in Dyalog APL.

@Adám I wonder how none of the popular golfing langs (to the best of my knowledge) use a variable-length encoding

For the record, I meant easy to type for an outsider. I can type Jelly just fine on both my desktop computer and my phone. Others seem to have a harder time.

@Dennis You mean non-ASCII langs.

@Adám well, the character set of ascii can be huffman-coded too

Sort of. GolfScript and J, e.g., are still pretty hard to write if you don't know the commands/verbs/train rules by heart.

A language with commands named print, input, etc. is a bit easier to remember at first.

golfscript's instruction set is so small though

@Dennis With emphasis on at first ;-)

Well, sure. Everything is easy once you're an expert. ;)

@Dennis Right. Question is how long time and how much effort it takes to become one. And once you are an expert, how long does it take to complete a given job.

no new plq cops today D:

Plenty of uncracked cops to play around with though.