The Nineteenth Byte

label a -- goto a

7:00 PM

@AdmBorkBork Ok. But how can they be sometimes late then?

Οurous

@labela--gotoa the data gets stuck somewhere in the internet

100% accurate

AdmBorkBork

From what I know, it's an internal-to-SE function that runs periodically. Sometimes the running of it hits right away when things are posted, sometimes the running misses the post and so it's a "long" time waiting for the next cycle.

It's not an instantaneous thing; it's on a scheduler.

moonheart08

Uh, question: The Powder toy has an "easy" way to make quines, but no idea if it counts, so it's a bit of a greyzone. TPT has a particle called DRAY, or Duplicator Ray, which duplicates a set of particles. Does that count as a self reading program?

Pavel

@moonheart08 There is a TIO bot, and it's not run by Dennis

Mr. Xcoder

@Cowsquack Thank you for spotting that. Is it better now?

I should make a CSS file instead of updating each HTML page each time

betseg

7:07 PM

nice responsive design

Mr. Xcoder

I like viewing it from mobile better than viewing it from Desktop lol

label a -- goto a

agree, even though I prefer the one you used in your about me and Jelly smart type

but that wouldn't necessarily fit here

Mr. Xcoder

Oh about me isn't a thing anymore

It currently looks like this.

I deleted the whole thing

label a -- goto a

oh

again? I seen you recreate the whole repository few times (unless it's Github feed making jokes of me)

Mr. Xcoder

Because I always dislike it D:

label a -- goto a

7:10 PM

I actually liked your previous

Mr. Xcoder

And I'm a HTML newbie

label a -- goto a

I've got a bit of HTML experience, so I could help you out, if you need :P

Mr. Xcoder

Yeah I liked it too but it looked awful on mobile, that annoyed me so much that I deleted it

betseg

feature-request: phi

Mr. Xcoder

Will add.

label a -- goto a

7:11 PM

Hmm

Mr. Xcoder

(it currently lacks a lot of things)

label a -- goto a

I'm always making my templates mobile and I would love to help you making it mobile :P

Mr. Xcoder

But the new Physica docs look amazing on mobile imo

(The layout, not the color scheme)

betseg

and definitely not the fonts

label a -- goto a

Actually, it's nice, agree

Mr. Xcoder

7:13 PM

Yeah not the fonts either. But the layout.

Pavel

@Mr.Xcoder Link?

label a -- goto a

but the menu takes a bit of space, at least on my debugger

Mr. Xcoder

@Pavel Here (note that the fonts and the color scheme suck for now, but the layout is mobile-responsive)

label a -- goto a

Well, you can get used to it, so that's not a bit problem

betseg

doctype says html5 but elements say xhtml 1.0

label a -- goto a

7:15 PM

@Mr.Xcoder You could eventually make a repo for a Jekyll theme so you wouldn't need to copy&paste the html

Mr. Xcoder

That could work

Pavel

@betseg Syntactically valid HTML is overrated anyway.

betseg

@Pavel i meant <aside>, <nav>, <main>, <header>, CSS grid (or flexbox), etc

Mr. Xcoder

And making languages and docs for them are great for gaining programming experience. For instance, I didn't know how to use <meta> tags in HTML before writing this website

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder And about making mobile websites, I completely agree with you, seeing a mobile website work fully OK is a really a success :P

I hate HTML layout model

Mr. Xcoder

7:18 PM

I'm currently making a separate CSS file so that I can use it for the entire project, and then I'll gladly accept font and color suggestions :)

label a -- goto a

:+1:

betseg

betseg.github.io does this thing look vaguely okay on mobile

Mr. Xcoder

The menu is cool

Adám

@betseg The ≡ look like it's sticking out under the window border.

betseg

@Mr.Xcoder it's the worst hack i've ever done

Mr. Xcoder

7:19 PM

^^

Adám

@betseg Cool, it's a CSS-driven menu. I like those.

label a -- goto a

For me the menu is too big on mobile and the button is too small/doesn't fit the rest, but otherwise would be nice.

Mr. Xcoder

I have trouble opening the hamburger menu on mobile, too

But it looks nice

Erik the Outgolfer

@Dennis Erik wouldn't either, they would just go to the TIOBot room. ;)

betseg

@Adám i cant wait for :has()

label a -- goto a

7:22 PM

@Adám You remind me of myself trying to make a working button-click menu using only CSS. ಠ_ಠ A long and hard work, but I did it!

@betseg That's the CSS feature of my dreams

@betseg But W3C keeps changing it, it was selector:has(), it was $selector and even selector!

pretty how will it look when browsers apply it finally

Adám

@labela--gotoa Pure CSS

betseg

@labela--gotoa my hamburger menu uses:

nav ul {
    display: none;
}
nav input:checked ~ ul {
  display: flex;
}

≡ is input checkbox

label a -- goto a

@Adám I know, I did with a similar trick

@betseg Nice!

betseg

youmightnotneedjs.com

AdmBorkBork

"You might not DJ" is a very different site.

label a -- goto a

7:25 PM

But mine was a bit complex, it did it work with :focus, :active, :focus-within and similar stuff

I wish I will never have to do it again

Mr. Xcoder

:o look at my website now... It's so broked.

(will fix shortly)

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder Also a tip, github lets you omit the .html part, so you can make it syntax instead of syntax.html

Mr. Xcoder

Wooohooo, it's back

@labela--gotoa Oh lol true

betseg

Adám Mr.Xcoder labela--gotoa (dont want to ping you all) i pushed an update, can you check the hamburger? (if its the same click here)

2

Erik the Outgolfer

it's the same and no I won't click there

label a -- goto a

7:29 PM

Oh, that's better here.

Mr. Xcoder

Much better

@betseg But your title "betseg" is waaaaaay off-centered

label a -- goto a

if l:
pass
else:
pass

I think I should stop sitting here, because my code won't improve itself...

AdmBorkBork

All y'all talking about this new-fangled fancy HTML and CSS and reactive and responsive and whatnot and I'm just sitting over here like "My website looks like it was made in 2006 ..."

label a -- goto a

same for me

haha

Mr. Xcoder

@AdmBorkBork this?

AdmBorkBork

7:32 PM

Yah

I mean, mainly because it was made in 2006

label a -- goto a

@AdmBorkBork It doesn't look so bad, must say it's quite nice, even now

Οurous

My website is one page of ASPX, that I keep telling myself I'll expand later.

label a -- goto a

@AdmBorkBork LAST UPDATED: 2009 08 05 ok

AdmBorkBork

Yah ...

betseg

how's the new new hamburger menu and top bar?

Riker

7:35 PM

that background with the pink hurts me

please

betseg

mine?

Riker

yes

also nice last name (via twitter) tha'ts a pretty cool one

betseg

you mean its meaning or appearance

Mr. Xcoder

yay I centralised the CSS

betseg

\o/

label a -- goto a

7:36 PM

Now your site looks really cool

\o/

betseg

oh wait desktop looks borked

/o\

media.giphy.com/media/13XW2MJE0XCoM0/giphy.gif .

9

Mr. Xcoder

CMP: Fonts for the text? Monospace fonts for the code block? Color recommendations? (for this, for reference)

Adám

@betseg Why do they say that the accordion and tabs are not kbd nav'able? They indeed appear to be. And so I mine (which look better, imho).

betseg

@Adám maybe browsers added it after the site was made? no idea.

label a -- goto a

Verdana or Geoge UI?

Geoge UI light is nice

betseg

7:38 PM

segoe?

label a -- goto a

but unsure it will fot

fit

betseg

@betseg NO IT DOESNT LOOK BROKEN ON DESKTOP IT WAS BECAUSE OF CACHING

sorry for yelling

Οurous

@Mr.Xcoder Consolas is my favoured monospace, but I don't know if it's viable.

label a -- goto a

I was once banned by one mod on one site for yelling in an rpg game... .-. he was demoted in 1-2 weeks

betseg

maybe use some popular web fonts from fonts.google.com or something

Adám

7:41 PM

@Mr.Xcoder Why the side menu in desktop mode? Are you planning something below it? Will it move with scrolling?

Mr. Xcoder

@Adám It will not move with scrolling.

What do you suggest instead? Dropdown?

Adám

@Mr.Xcoder So why not have it be like a menu bar across on desktop, and then switch to the current for mobile?

Mr. Xcoder

Ok, I need to refactor my CSS completely in that case

label a -- goto a

Can somebody rate this? The menu is NOT responsive yet in this case, but I have no real idea what to do instead.

Well, it is responsive for small screens, but not for medium ones

Adám

@labela--gotoa Icons fade when hovered. That's backwards.

Mr. Xcoder

7:43 PM

Looks good

But you have 2 GitHub links

label a -- goto a

@Adám That's on purpose...

It's a hover effect for all links on the site

Adám

@labela--gotoa Not sure bottom bar is a good idea. May interfere with / get mixed up with nav bars on mobiles.

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder The one in main menu and the one in the docs menu are different ones

Mr. Xcoder

I like this :)

Adám

Way too much colour fading/shifting when hovering

label a -- goto a

7:45 PM

@Mr.Xcoder Basically, I made the template for this kind of stuff, but not for the sub-sites, so they suck actually...

betseg

and the animations are too slow imo

label a -- goto a

Maybe I should use 2 different themes .-.

Mr. Xcoder

^^

label a -- goto a

Really? how?

oh wait

about the css menus, they are not on the /codenote part of the site... forgot about this .-. because I don't need them on the part

Mr. Xcoder

When going to the bottom bar, the orange line (which might be a bit too orange) appears with some delay.

betseg

7:47 PM

@Riker chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/42839385#42839385 .

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder You think so? :/

Mr. Xcoder

Oh wait... I didn't see that colors change after it appears

That's actually cool :D

For some reason, I didn't see them turn white the first time

label a -- goto a

Well, the whole theme originates from my older version of CodeNote site, and now it's global on the whole peradev.net

Mr. Xcoder

I am afraid that, if I make the header sticky, I'll bork the mobile layout.

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder I actually worry if it works on old browsers, especially IE, but I did all I can... :?

@Mr.Xcoder You mean the title header or the menu?

Mr. Xcoder

7:50 PM

@labela--gotoa Both.

Because I am trying to incorporate the menu onto the header

label a -- goto a

Well, after you make it into a button (at least on mobile) then it's fine

but not otherwise

Mr. Xcoder

I want to keep the current layout on mobile (no sticky header on mobile, sticky heder on desktop)

betseg

transition: background 0.4s, color 0.4s 0.2s;'d look cool :P

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder Ah, that's easy then.

Mr. Xcoder

Ik, I'm doing it now.

label a -- goto a

7:53 PM

@media (min-width: ...px) {
  #header {
    display: sticky
    top: 0
  }
}

Alternatively, fixed, but that won't be good idea, because that would hide some tesxt

Mr. Xcoder

Yeah but I have to pin the menu too and make it horizontal instead of vertical

betseg

38 mins ago, by betseg

doctype says html5 but elements say xhtml 1.0

<aside>, <nav>, <main>, <header>, <footer> etc

Mr. Xcoder

I use @media only screen and (max-width:620px) for small windows

totallyhuman

I feared the day tnb would be taken over by webdev D:

betseg

@Mr.Xcoder who even prints websites these days

why screen

Mr. Xcoder

7:55 PM

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

betseg

wait, you can emulate a parent selector using CSS grids

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder I moved the menu locally outside the main div and made it sticky, it works pretty well

@betseg what?

betseg

you can change order of elements using css grids, that means you can use ~ and + instead of a parent selector and just change the order

label a -- goto a

:/

that's not the ting

maybe it could work

betseg

well i did say emulate

label a -- goto a

7:58 PM

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ATaco

El Gasp, Web Development

label a -- goto a

raise Exception("label error: The file is empty.")

Why did I make the exceptions be a valid code in the language .-.

Mr. Xcoder

Any help changing this such that the menu is horizontal instead of vertical? I borked it earlier ;-;

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder What's wrong with vertical one?

Mr. Xcoder

It doesn't look good...

label a -- goto a

8:04 PM

why?

it looks ok for me

Mr. Xcoder

Because it makes no sense to have it vertical if it isn't sticky.

And I want to make it sticky + horizontal instead

label a -- goto a

fine

my css contains useful stuff for such things for the p-bar class, but be aware, that some only fit my site, so

they may work bad

Mr. Xcoder

That's what I get for working in JSFiddle ;-;

HyperNeutrino

oh boy proton 2 takes 18 years to start up again

Mr. Xcoder

Inefficient additions?

HyperNeutrino

8:08 PM

It seems to be spending a ton of time parsing

let me see what happens if I remove the most recent syntactical additions

it seems that removing layers is making it faster, though that might be due to inconsistencies in both my computer and TIO

oh huh. Program.grammar_resolve_refs() is taking most of the time lol. Guess I just won't resolve refs then :P

yay now it's almost instant

label a -- goto a

I named a variable l in Python... And font in Visual Studio makes it look very similar to 1

.-.

Mr. Xcoder

Are JSFiddle's permalinks broken?

Pavel

> Using Visual Studio for python development

label a -- goto a

.-.

what's wrong with that? It works good

Erik the Outgolfer

> Using Visual Studio

label a -- goto a

8:15 PM

Except that IntelliSense sometimes goes crazy

Pavel

@labela--gotoa It works slightly to significantly worse to nearly all alternatives

@EriktheOutgolfer VS for C# development is acceptable due to a lack of good free alternatives

Mr. Xcoder

Is it possible to make a li display inline items?

label a -- goto a

It has all features I need according to one of comparisons, where most of free Python IDE's don't

Erik the Outgolfer

I don't know anything about C#, but I can feel your torture

Mr. Xcoder

@Mr.Xcoder display:inline(-block); for the uls, perhaps

Pavel

8:16 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer The fact that C# is the best language evar makes up for it

@labela--gotoa PyCharm

Erik the Outgolfer

PyCharm Community Edition though

Mr. Xcoder

Even the community edition is good

Pavel

@labela--gotoa What do you even need in a Python IDE anyway

@Mr.Xcoder Certainly better than VS

Erik the Outgolfer

yep

Mr. Xcoder

I didn't buy the premium version, PyCharm CE has more than I'll ever need.

label a -- goto a

8:18 PM

I see nothing wrong in VS, except IntelliSense... .-.

Pavel

Sublime Text or Notepad++ are enough for python development by themselves, IMO.

Erik the Outgolfer

who buys the premium version >_>

label a -- goto a

No

Cows quack

@Mr.Xcoder yes, it is better now

label a -- goto a

No, not notepad++

that's not good

Pavel

8:19 PM

@labela--gotoa Extremely slow, uses a ton of memory, crashes a lot, looks ugly.

Mr. Xcoder

Cool!

label a -- goto a

@Pavel Is not slow for me, doesn't use a lot of memory, works without crashing and looks nice

Mr. Xcoder

You basically applied "¬" to the entire sentence :P

label a -- goto a

Ok, IntelliSense is slow

Pavel

@labela--gotoa I don't believe that VS takes less than 30 seconds to start up on any machine known to man

moonheart08

8:20 PM

The NES has so many hardware quirks ;-;

label a -- goto a

@Pavel I don't even have a powerful machine and it starts up quite fast, I don't need it to do it faster

Mr. Xcoder

Let's not start discussions about VS again. We all know how they end

label a -- goto a

haha

I don't like MS products, but even my brother does agree that VS is good. Ok, end for now

Pavel

VS code is

label a -- goto a

VS Code is a super-slow and limited version of Notepad++

mınxomaτ

8:23 PM

VS is pretty good these days.

label a -- goto a

at least it was when I installed it last time

quartata

@labela--gotoa that must have been a long time ago

although I'll at least grant you the slow part because it's electron

Pavel

@mınxomaτ It's not that bad anymore, but still worse than most alternatives

@quartata Remarkably fast for an electron app though

mınxomaτ

@Pavel Not really, no.

E.g. Rider might be fast, but is missing many critical features.

Mr. Xcoder

Is it just me or all the IDEs look much better and more responsive in pictures given by their creators on their official webpages than irl?

label a -- goto a

8:26 PM

if VS had anything else than a download page then maybe

lol

Pavel

@mınxomaτ For Python, I meant.

For C#, yeah, you're still kinda stuck with VS

mınxomaτ

I wouldn't say stuck either.

Mr. Xcoder

For example Xamarin. I saw an image, and thought Wow this looks great I must have this one. When I downloaded it, it immediately felt sucky: huge launch time, bad design, etc...

Pavel

@mınxomaτ I use Sublime Text, but most people don't agree with me there.

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder That's nothing. I once wanted to create my own IDE in a game engine. Game engine. Game Engine

mınxomaτ

8:28 PM

I use Rider mostly because I need to develop on macOS and linux with synced settings. JetBrains Toolbox is really the only way to do that consistently.

But god damn, they really need to port dotTrace etc. to linux and macOS, too.

Οurous

@Mr.Xcoder but good luck using anything else for Cobra

@Pavel you're never stuck with VS, only blessed by the option.

Mr. Xcoder

I'd rather stop using the language than having to use Xamarin again, honestly.

Pavel

@Οurous ಠ_ಠ

Οurous

@Mr.Xcoder did it change much in the last 5 years? Because it wasn't that bad when I used it. Even though it was only for autocomplete, highlighting, and inline running and compilation.

Mr. Xcoder

I was trying to use it for C# development (which I stopped after that event)

For Android, iOS and Windows at the same time

label a -- goto a

8:34 PM

For multiplatform dev, I use GDScript

Οurous

@Pavel no seriously, if you have any suggestions for alternatives I'm open. Configurable IDEs adaptable to an arbitrary toolchain and language, which aren't JVM-based. Or v/vim/emacs

label a -- goto a

It's awesome

Mr. Xcoder

position: (-webkit-)stick; doesn't do anything in my browser o_O

label a -- goto a

It's better than Python for me

But it's layout model could be improved

Οurous

@Mr.Xcoder the cobra package for it is actually better than the C# one it comes with. More buggy, but more useable.

New Sandboxed Posts

8:39 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Want to see a Magic Card Trick? The first magic card trick I ever learned as a child was the following: Have 1 deck of cards where the pattern on the back is not vertically symmetric. Organize all cards to be facing one direction. Ask an individual to, "pick a card, any card, memorize it and g...

ngn

@Οurous why do you exclude vim and emacs from consideration?

Pavel

@Οurous VSCode, Sublime

@ngn Because people don't want to learn the keybindings I guess

Οurous

@ngn because I don't like lisp and I like my mouse

Pavel

@Οurous set mouse=a

ngn

@Οurous both emacs lisp and vimscript are crap languages, I agree

@Οurous vimscript is just tolerable for me to use it, but it's not about the language - it's editing efficiency that keeps me with vim

betseg

8:51 PM

@Mr.Xcoder sticky

orlp

@ngn check out neovim

ngn

@orlp what does it offer to make it worth switching?

orlp

@ngn proper scripting capabilities that aren't vimscript

proper async support

ngn

@orlp oh, wikipedia says it's a compatible extension of vim, that sound good

orlp

@ngn full disclaimer: I don't use it (yet)

I have quite a heavy set of plugins and I haven't put in the effort to switch

DJMcMayhem

8:55 PM

@orlp Vim 8 has async support

orlp

@DJMcMayhem probably due to neovim popping up :P

DJMcMayhem

Haha, I won't argue that point

ngn

@orlp a had a lot of plugins a few years ago but I've gradually reduced them to the bare minimum I need

orlp

@ngn I don't strongly recommend neovim at all

but it's nice to know

that a well-maintained alternative is being made

they started from vim source, so it's not like a 'work in progress' to get to the point where vim is

it's basically removing cruft from vim

Mr. Xcoder

@betseg Typo

DJMcMayhem

8:56 PM

Unfortunately, neovim doesn't work super well on windows, which is mostly why I haven't switched

quartata

@Οurous why are you excluding JVM-based?

ngn

@DJMcMayhem windows... yuck

Οurous

@Pavel VSCode looks really nice, can't believe I haven't considered it before.

quartata

kinda feels like you're excluding all possibilities

mınxomaτ

^

ngn

8:58 PM

@Οurous vscode is electron + more stuff

Pavel

@ngn It's incredibly well optimized electron though

DJMcMayhem

@ngn Yeah yeah yeah, I know

Downgoat

@Οurous it’s nice in theory but it always did really bad on large projects and uses scary amounts of RAM for a text editor.

orlp

@Pavel what an oxymoron

DJMcMayhem

But in the end, I'd rather be able to play the games I own and have everything work out of the box

orlp

8:59 PM

my main desktop runs windows

mainly for games

still windows 7

Οurous

@Downgoat I always try things before I commit to them

orlp

I'll probably never run the crapware known as windows 10

Pavel

@orlp IKR, it's like black magic

orlp

my laptop runs linux

for programming, work and study

Transcript for