The Nineteenth Byte

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

6:00 PM

@zyabin101 thank you captain helpful

Poke

i hope this goes on forever

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

7

Q: Write a Semiquine

Suppose you have 2 languages, A and B. A string s is a semiquine in A and B if it satisfies the following conditions: s is a quine in language A. s is a polyglot in A and B. The output of running s as a B program is a different string s', which is a quine in B. The goal of this challenge is t...

i asssume that's what he means

ColdGolf

@MartinEnder A semi-quine is a program that uses quine-like features.

But is not a quine in and of itself.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

o-O

Poke

What's a quine-like feature

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

6:01 PM

that doesn't make sense

Poke

i like this game

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Poke which one?

Martin Ender

@ColdGolf your definition is now circular

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

Nathan Merrill

what if you have a semiquine where you score the levenstien distance between the two programs divided by the program length?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

6:01 PM

?

ColdGolf

@Poke A quine like feature is defined, by my definition, as a program that produces at least 75% of its own code in the output.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

too much edit

@ColdGolf o_O

why would that even be a thing

Martin Ender

@ColdGolf well at least that's a definition

ColdGolf

Yeah.

trichoplax

This sounds suspiciously like a "Do X without X" challenge. I can't imagine how that would work

Martin Ender

6:02 PM

how do you define those 75%? by levenshtein distance?

ColdGolf

By numbers of chars

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

so a semi quine is a quine that prints out > 75% of it's source code

Martin Ender

even if they appear in different positions?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

ohhhh

Martin Ender

like if abcdefg produces gafbced is that still disallowed?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

6:03 PM

i get it

ColdGolf

@MartinEnder As long as 75% of your code is different chars.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

so levenshtein?

Martin Ender

well if I just shift all of my characters along by one, I'm pretty sure more than 75% of them will be different

hence the question whether you'd want to use Levenshtein which would catch things like that

ColdGolf

If your code uses 130 unicode chars, then at least 97.5 (rounded to 98) chars, of your choosing, must not be in the output.

And so on.

Martin Ender

okay, so I think the answer to my earlier question was "yes"

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

6:04 PM

ye

Martin Ender

position doesn't matter, but only whether the character still appears

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ColdGolf so "add 2 bytes every repetition, and the new code can't contain > 75% of the original code"

ColdGolf

Yes.

Is that a good challenge?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no

Nathan Merrill

wait, we're switching definitions here. your original post says that a quine produces 75% of its own code (so I could have 50% of the same characters, and not be a quine)

Martin Ender

6:05 PM

then I could just include some dummy characters and swap them out every time

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

Martin Ender

(as long as they make up 25% of the code)

ColdGolf

@MartinEnder How?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

or a cyclic program with 2 different states

trichoplax

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Won't that eventually exhaust the available characters?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

6:06 PM

you just swap "styles" every output

so "abc1" -> "def2" -> "abc3" -> "def4"

ColdGolf

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ The rules would be. Increasing by 1% each time.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

?

ColdGolf

first 75%, next repetition 76% of chars must be different, next repetition 77%, and so on.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ColdGolf yeah, i ignored the + 2 bytes part

Martin Ender

@ColdGolf when you find yourself patching out one loophole after the next with very specific rules targeted at exactly that loophole there's a good chance that the underlying idea might not work as well as you hoped.

4

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

6:08 PM

@ColdGolf TL;DR: I don't think this is a feasible idea. You need to add waaay too many rules, it just gets too complicated.

Lynn

My prediction: closed as unclear what on earth you’re talking about.

Martin Ender

Trust me, I know...

ColdGolf

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I think it would be challenging and fun. Especially when you get to the point where 100% of chars must eventually be different.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

I don't think so.

ColdGolf

I do.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

6:08 PM

@ColdGolf You realize that is impossible to do forever.

@ColdGolf Cool. I'm 1/5 for the close votes.

ColdGolf

The limit of repetition is as much as you can feasibly do.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

closed as subjective

ColdGolf

That is, the number of unicode characters you can use = "feasibly", so when you exhaust all unicode 9.0 characters, that's fine.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

2 mins ago, by Martin Ender

@ColdGolf when you find yourself patching out one loophole after the next with very specific rules targeted at exactly that loophole there's a good chance that the underlying idea might not work as well as you hoped.

ColdGolf

What's wrong with the underlying idea?

A generic "loopholes are banned" would do, right?

quartata

6:11 PM

No

ColdGolf

"Cheating and loopholes are banned" is what I always use.

quartata

What's a loophole

ColdGolf

A standard loophole.

Nathan Merrill

we have a meta post of loopholes, but that doesn't include loopholes specific to a challenge

quartata

No standard loophole covers the things you're describing

In other news it took a while for me to realize this actually rhymes:

in Beep Boop Maggot, 49 secs ago, by quartata

quack

in Beep Boop Maggot, 55 secs ago, by Laff-O-Tron

quack more like cocoa

It's doing better than I thought

Business Cat

6:14 PM

Wat

quartata

@BusinessCat Give it a try. It's not as bad as I expected

Lynn

Ahh, I really want to use Kakoune in golf.

I hope there’s more ascii-art soon. Hint hint.

quartata

in Beep Boop Maggot, 1 min ago, by Business Cat

Please don't make fun of me bot

in Beep Boop Maggot, 1 min ago, by Laff-O-Tron

of more like oaf

Wow, my bot is edgy

Nathan Merrill

@MartinEnder I'm trying to solidify my definitions for smallest-output so I can come up with a better name. I've got three sub-types: those that can't really be chunked, those that are easily chunked, and those that output a single thing.

does it make sense to combine them into a single tag?

mınxomaτ

@quartata #stillbetterthantay

DJMcMayhem

6:27 PM

@Lynn if there's another ascii-art, I have dibs on the vim answer. :P

quartata

@mınxomaτ Yeah, only 10 minutes in he made a joke about Thais

So on par I'd say

feersum

Wow Google atuo-correct is aggressive today.

quartata

Clearly not aggressive enough

feersum

I tried to search for "etwpcreateetwthread" and it searched for "createthread" instead.

Releasing Helium Nuclei

> etwpcreateetwthread

Nice

DJMcMayhem

6:35 PM

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

What base is this number in? code-golf math base-conversion Here's a seemingly trivial challenge that is more challenging than it first seems: Given a string that represents a number in an unknown base, determine the lowest possible base that number might be in. The string will only conta...

feersum

That's not a typo; I spelled my search term exactly right.

Releasing Helium Nuclei

@feersum ye i looked, it says julia

feersum

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei What?

Leaky Nun

halp how flatten in golfscript

Releasing Helium Nuclei

@feersum oh... just a dll used in Julia...nvm

@LeakyNun what is flattening

feersum

6:38 PM

And almost every Windows program that exists.

Releasing Helium Nuclei

@feersum oh

ColdGolf

CMC: Write a self-interpreter of an esolang.

Releasing Helium Nuclei

Can i link one that someone else did

ColdGolf

Nope.

FryAmTheEggman

@ColdGolf Golfscript: ~ ;)

ColdGolf

6:41 PM

@FryAmTheEggman Awesome!

Business Cat

Similarly in CJam: q~

New Sandboxed Posts

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

What base is this number in? code-golf math base-conversion Here's a seemingly trivial challenge that is more challenging than it first seems: Given a string that represents a number in an unknown base, determine the lowest possible base that number might be in. The string will only conta...

FryAmTheEggman

~ is eval and golfscript automatically reads the input :P

DJMcMayhem

@ColdGolf V (sorta): dG@"

ColdGolf

Define "sorta"?

DJMcMayhem

6:43 PM

In regular V, the program continues after an "error'. In this self interpreting version, the program ends after the first error.

New Main Posts

0

Q: The coin catastrophe

In Golfenhagen, The people are allowed, and encouraged, to melt down old coins for scrap metal, if the smelter can make a profit off of it. There are 5 coins that make the Golfenhagen mint. The half-penny(0.5)(H), the penny(1)(P), the tea (5)(T), the flag (10)(F), and the driver (25)(D). Golfenha...

code-golf arithmetic

ColdGolf

@DJMcMayhem I see. Not allowed I guess.

DJMcMayhem

The word "error" is not entirely accurate, but it's close enough without going into too much detail

Interestingly enough, these "errors" are essential, and the way most "conditionals" work.

ColdGolf

Essential?

Theo

If it's essential, then I'd say not including that functionality in your answer disqualifies it

ColdGolf

6:47 PM

I guess so.

βετѧ Λєҫαγ

Hey, are these valid barcodes:

jsfiddle.net/BetaDecay/jd4dovpL/5

DJMcMayhem

@ColdGolf Yeah. More than half of the V answers I've posted intentionally throw errors for branching/conditionals/looping

Which I think is kinda funny/interesting

TimmyD

> Team Fortress 2 [is] a hat trading game with a FPS minigame --JamEngulfer

DJMcMayhem

I know it's not valid

TimmyD

I mean, that's not wrong

quartata

6:49 PM

@TimmyD This is pretty close

DJMcMayhem

Probably impossible, or at least ridiculously hard

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@TimmyD that is most of tf2 in a nutshell

ColdGolf

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ CS:GO too.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

except people running around in a bright green banana hat

@ColdGolf but you guys don't got any bananas, ha!

Martin Ender

@NathanMerrill I'd probably differentiate between those that are "fewest tokens" and "smallest output" (in bytes), but probably not further than that. the latin square type of challenge can be further clarified by using compression as well.

ColdGolf

6:53 PM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ So what?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

um

WE AER COOLER WE HAVE BANANA

flawr

7

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

-1 no freehand circle

3

ColdGolf

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ -10 Old meme.

βετѧ Λєҫαγ

@ColdGolf -15 Old memes rool

2

flawr

6:55 PM

@TimmyD In german there is "Toll ein anderer macht's" - (Nice, someone else is doing the work.)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ColdGolf but i have more stars

so im right

that's how se chat works

ColdGolf

@βετѧΛєҫαγ -20 You are wrong.

flawr

@ColdGolf -15 you don't get it

βετѧ Λєҫαγ

:D

ColdGolf

@flawr -23 It's just old.

TimmyD

6:55 PM

> roughwrought

feersum

How do we say stdout in 1 syllable?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ColdGolf -15 BOW TO THE 15

Poke

@here +30 Less confusing if everyone is >= 0

Lynn

@LeakyNun How about `"[]"-"[]"\*~

ColdGolf

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ -30 Not funny.

feersum

6:56 PM

This could be a good pod cast subject.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ColdGolf -15 y u *2

feersum

All the participants attempt to pronounce, in 1 syllable, "stdout"

ColdGolf

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ -40 Old meme tax.

quartata

Gack, the knowledge base maker has been stuck on Assembling... for 3 hours

ColdGolf

@feersum stout?

quartata

6:57 PM

Now I really regret not adding a progress meter

I have no idea what it's doing

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ColdGolf okay we're done now

@quartata hahaha

it's making skynet

flawr

@ColdGolf -15 you should become an adept

ColdGolf

@flawr -20 For using links.

quartata

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ By the way, I have another bot running in beep boop if you want to play with that

TimmyD

@quartata The day I mastered Write-Progress in PowerShell is likely the reason that I'm still (somewhat) sane.

quartata

6:57 PM

Hopefully this other one should be done soon

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@quartata does he have the [@] restriction?

quartata

No

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

kk

Leaky Nun

@Lynn I only needed to flatten one layer, so {~}% suffices, but thanks

ColdGolf

@TimmyD CMC: Write PowerShell in batch or bash.

TimmyD

6:59 PM

@flawr That's hilarious.

@ColdGolf BATCH 16 bytes -- @echo PowerShell

:p

Transcript for