The Nineteenth Byte

>>> import time
>>> for i in range(1, 100):
...   print(time.time() // 60)
...
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0
24406567.0

Agawa001

so, rand(), must be technically calculated

quartata

So random

mınxomaτ

so original

very joke

quartata

I didn't think he was joking

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Agawa001 roll a dice

Agawa001

12:08 AM

and anything occurs as what people call it "chance" or "random", is backgrounded on a reason

while we are unaware of that reason

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

or atmospheric noise

Anonymous

Benedict Cumberwubwub

mınxomaτ

Wow that was late.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@mınxomaτ done for you.

Check the PRs.

Agawa001

how bout randomizing a function according to how random a random thing can be starred at a random tange of time in 19th byte 's board, nothing can be more random than this

mınxomaτ

12:18 AM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Did you test this in all other browsers? And pls minify.

Dennis

>>> import time as hammer
>>> hammer.time()

12

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@mınxomaτ working on it

orlp

when you want a quick coffee, do you just chew instant coffee?

mınxomaτ

instant coffee != coffee.

quartata

^

Helka Homba

12:20 AM

@Mego With regards to this I think the system is fair enough for challenge writers as it stands

But people always say I'm the exception :))

(continues to stroke ego in private)

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

>>> import antigravity

mınxomaτ

@HelkaHomba "ego" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

>>> from __future__ import braces as stop_the_bad_import_jokes
SyntaxError: Not a chance

Anonymous

@HelkaHomba I disagree. Trivial challenges and clever solutions to challenges get significantly more votes than clever challenges. Answer votes giving more than twice the rep that question votes do only makes it worse. To make things worse, trivial challenges get more answers, which puts them on HNQ, which then attracts more views, votes, and answers.

Anonymous

Trivial challenges dominate the highest-voted and most-viewed challenges

Anonymous

12:26 AM

Meanwhile, interesting, novel challenges get ignored, likely because "too hard; can't be bothered"

Anonymous

Your challenges are the exception, because you have a unique reputation within this community for creating very good challenges. When you post a challenge, we all flock to it, because we know it's going to be good, and it inevitably ends up on HNQ. Challenges by anyone else don't get that same kind of response.

Leaky Nun

@FryAmTheEggman nice...

Anonymous

Out of the top 10 users by reputation, you are the only one with more questions than answers posted.

Helka Homba

@Mego Yeah. It is admittedly difficult to garner interest for clever/in-depth challenges (unlike simple acsii-art stuff I often churn out). But I think it's more an issue of human nature liking quick and easy stuff, not a severe problem with our site.

Leaky Nun

Have anyone noticed that we're approaching 30000000?

Upgoat

12:30 AM

@LeakyNun ?

Leaky Nun

@Upgoat You just replied to 29958876

Helka Homba

@Upgoat Message number. I just responded too 29958877

Upgoat

oh ok

Agawa001

sudoku minimal clues, and O(n) longest palindrome finder are exemplary hard to an impractical extent, i mean that they remain theorical until a satisfying solution pops in.

Upgoat

but we still got ~50000 to go

mınxomaτ

12:31 AM

pls no spam

Anonymous

On PPCG and Puzzling, it's at least as hard to write a good challenge as it is to come up with a good solution to one. The fact that we don't have a system for rewarding good challenges like we do for rewarding good solutions implies that we value solutions more than challenges. The q/a ratio of our top users by reputation enforces that problem.

Helka Homba

If we had to do something I think the +10 rep challenge votes would be the simplest thing, but apparently that can't happen :/

Agawa001

typedef ctime night; sleep(night->time());

zZ good fight

i mean night

Upgoat

@Agawa001 night!

Anonymous

When a significant portion of our userbase says "can we please have this?", I'm not satisfied with a "no too hard" answer

Upgoat

12:35 AM

solution: get a job at SE?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I might actually want to do that

El'endia Starman

@LeakyNun Yeah, I noticed that yesterday.

Leaky Nun

@El'endiaStarman Nice

Anonymous

We are fundamentally different than the rest of the network (Puzzling notwithstanding), and the CMs have acknowledged this. The fact that they haven't made any of the changes that we've requested, or commented on them at all (except saying "no too hard" to the challenge rep increase) is very frustrating.

3

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@LeakyNun I'm replying to this to verify myself

Leaky Nun

12:39 AM

29958964 :o

Anonymous

We had to pester the CMs endlessly to graduate. I don't want us to have to do that every time we need something changed.

Quill

Some tasks take a team—now you can assign issues and pull requests to up to ten users: https://github.com/blog/2178-multiple-assignees-on-issues-and-pull-requests?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=multiple-assignees https://t.co/FwYZaiVzWd

Tweeted by github on May 27, 2016 at 5:20 PM

Anonymous

I fear the outcome will be "supporting non-Q&A sites is hard, so no". Or worse, "supporting non-Q&A sites is hard, so you and Puzzling are getting shut down".

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

That won't happen. Not right after graduating both.

mınxomaτ

8 hours ago, by mınxomaτ

> Multiple Assignees

ninja'd

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:42 AM

@Mego if that were to happen, we'd at least have TNB to organize a secondary site :P

Alex A.

@Mego Stack Exchange doesn't shut down healthy communities.

@Mego I honestly don't think pestering had anything to do with it. They keep tabs on the status of the various sites with automatic triggers telling them when sites are ready to graduate.

Anonymous

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Perhaps I should have said "eventual outcome". I don't expect that we'll be shut down anytime soon. But some point in the future, it could happen, unless something drastically changes, and we get the support we need from the CM team.

Anonymous

@AlexA. We had to pester them because those automatic triggers weren't working. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/274340/…

quartata

@Quill finally

Anonymous

@AlexA. We're an exception to several rules already. What's one more?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

12:45 AM

I still don't think that will happen. Were frustrated with SE, but not the other way around. As far as SE is concerned, we're doing just fine without any site-specific customization's, so why bother?

TBF, we are doing fine. We could be doing even better, but the current system is OK.

Alex A.

@Mego That logic doesn't apply here. We are a Stack Exchange site that brings traffic to the network. We don't break any of SE's rules. As a community we function differently, but otherwise we are a typical SE site. And SE has said that they don't shut down healthy sites.

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ We'd know if they were frustrated with us.

Anonymous

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ I disagree. Our average QPD has been steadily dropping since graduation.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

That's my point. They aren't.

Alex A.

I know, I'm just adding information.

Quill

@AlexA. unless you're ai.SE

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

12:48 AM

@Mego Really? Do you have a source on that?

Anonymous

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ codegolf.stackexchange.com/site-analytics

Alex A.

I don't see any evidence of a significant change based on the graph.

quartata

Yeah, that looks pretty normal. There was a peak right before graduation obviously but it hasn't like flatlined or something

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

If you back it up further to jan of 2015, we're steadily increasing.

Anonymous

We're getting a lot less high days and a lot more low days

Quill

12:50 AM

Anonymous

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ If you back it up to 2015-jan-01, the recent downward trend is even more visible

Anonymous

It's OK to post screenshots of the site analytics page in chat, right?

quartata

Yeah.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

I think so.

Quill

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ this ain't site analytics, this is SEDE, baby

quartata

12:51 AM

That isn't site analytics that he posted

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

oh.

quartata

Yeah, he doesn't have enough rep to see our site analytics

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

I thought that was CR's.

idk why

Well, gbai everyone. I'm going rock climbing.

Quill

Anonymous

Quill

12:54 AM

@Quill That's a 300 week change

quartata

@Mego I assume this is weekly view right?

Anonymous

The graph I posted is 2015-jan-01 to 2016-may-27, questions, weekly view

Anonymous

Yep

quartata

I personally think that's not a very drastic change but OK

I'm not sure where you're going with this, at any rate

Anonymous

What I'm saying is, since graduation, there's been a decline in the number of challenges posted per day

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

12:56 AM

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ nice! bye!

where?

at a gym or a outdoor place?

quartata

@Mego OK, sure. And?

Alex A.

I don't think it's been long enough since graduation to be able to draw any meaningful conclusions about trends.

Anonymous

And that's not good. You'd expect the QPD to stay constant or go up.

quartata

No, you wouldn't. We actually kind of arbitrarily inflated our QPD during that time period since we heard about the broken triggers and for the first time in years we were actually being examined for graduation

Quill

when did we graduate? what date?

Anonymous

12:58 AM

I believe the key to getting more high-quality challenges is to have more rewards for writing high-quality challenges.

Anonymous

@Quill 2016-Feb-23

quartata

As I recall there was a lot of "POST MORE CHALLENGES" and screenshots of the A51 page

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ gym.

Alex A.

@Mego I agree, but I also don't think that without such rewards we'll ultimately devolve into a festering shitscape.

Quill

Anonymous

12:59 AM

@quartata Exactly. There was an incentive for posting challenges (helping us graduate). Now that we've graduated, that incentive is gone, and our QPD is dropping back to pre-graduation levels.

Leaky Nun

@Quill How did you get that graph?

Alex A.

Pre-graduation =/=> unhealthy

Upgoat

@Mego I wouldn't say there is very little incentive for posting questions. Questions already get significantly more rep than answers

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ okay cool

Quill

we can't bounty questions, but you could do a monthly best-of challenge and bounty answers of the winning challengers

quartata

1:00 AM

I don't think having rewards will change the real probablem which is that people like lower quality trivial challenges and voting is generally skewed towards them. Ultimately even if you have a bounty system votes are still the "primary" reward in most peoples' eyes

Anonymous

@AlexA. I definitely did not say that.

Quill

@LeakyNun data.stackexchange.com

Leaky Nun

oh, thanks

Alex A.

@Mego Well, we'd have to devolve as such in order to be shut down

Upgoat

I don't think SE would shut down a graduated site no matter how shitty it became

Anonymous

1:01 AM

@Upgoat A single question may get significantly more votes than a single answer, but those votes count for less than half, and there are a whole lot more answers than questions being posted every day.

Quill

considering CommunityBuilding, Lifehacks and a bunch of other sites have been in public beta with numbers like 1.5 a week for many months, SE ain't gonna can PPCG

Anonymous

@Upgoat Fair enough. SFF is still running, after all.

quartata

@Mego Whoa shots fired

@Quill Or Beer SE

Upgoat

brb posting in mos eisley

Quill

don't start a fire @Upgoat

Anonymous

1:02 AM

@quartata To be fair, they've had a shitton of drama in the last few months. A mod was asked to step down, their chatroom got frozen, and then that same (former) mod got chat-banned, then site-banned.

quartata

@Upgoat Please don't

Upgoat

@quartata too late

quartata

Why would you stir up even more drama in there for no reason

3

Quill

If you're concerned about PPCG's health, don't start getting delusions of closure into your heads.

Upgoat

it would really cause drama??

quartata

1:03 AM

Uh, yes?

Upgoat

ok, removed

Anonymous

I can't imagine why you would think that was a good idea

2

Quill

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/…

orlp

@Upgoat what is mos eisley?

Quill

A bar

Upgoat

1:05 AM

@orlp sci fi chat room:

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/198/mos-eisley

Anonymous

@orlp A wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Quill

9 mins ago, by Mego

I believe the key to getting more high-quality challenges is to have more rewards for writing high-quality challenges.

@Mego any ideas?

Anonymous

21

Q: How should challenge authors be rewarded for creating exemplary challenges?

Over on Puzzling.SE, the community there has been discussing various ways to reward puzzle authors for creating exemplary puzzles. Given that we're like Puzzling.SE in that we're not a Q&A site, and that we've discussed increasing reputation gain/loss for challenge upvotes and downvotes, it seems...

Anonymous

The increased rep for challenges is one of the better solutions IMO. I'm still stewing on some of the others posted on Puzzling.

orlp

@Mego wait what

Anonymous

1:12 AM

@orlp Were you not keeping up with the SFF drama?

orlp

@Mego no

Anonymous

On an unrelated note: this page is hilarious

Anonymous

> Programming Puzzles & Code Golf Stack Exchange works really well for technical support

Anonymous

46

Q: Why was a moderator on our Stack asked to step down?

As we all know by now, Richard is stepping down as a moderator for this Stack. As Richard notes both in his announcement and in chat, he was asked to step down by a community manager. After speaking with the powers-that-be, I have been offered a stark choice; jump ship or get pushed. and ...

discussion support moderators community

Anonymous

Also meta.scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/7315/…

Mars Ultor

1:15 AM

@Mego where?

Upgoat

I'm only 1 file away from completing cheddar >_>

Anonymous

@MarsUltor Look at the link in the immediate previous message

Alex A.

3 mins ago, by Mego

On an unrelated note: this page is hilarious

Anonymous

TIL we're tech support

Quill

If anyone wants to play around with that SEDE query I was referencing earllier: data.stackexchange.com/codegolf/query/418726/…

Anonymous

1:17 AM

"Help my code doesn't work!" "Have you tried getting rid of whitespace?"

Upgoat

Mar 28 at 23:50, by Downgoat

@QPaysTaxes Welcome to Programming Puzzles and Code Golf! This website is tagged code-golf so you need to make your code as short as possible, you can start by removing all that horrible whitespace and making all variable named 1-char long.

Wad Cheber

@quartata We bash other sites so much that it would be the most hypocritical thing ever for us to get upset about that.

No worries.

Anonymous

Still, trying to stir up more drama is a bad idea, and is not Being Nice

Wad Cheber

Wait, this is the code golf chat?

Anonymous

Nope this is Code Review

Upgoat

1:24 AM

@Mego ಠ_ಠ

Wad Cheber

I haven't made fun of Code Golf because I don't understand what it is. It seems like the illegitimate love child of Puzzling.SE and Stack Overflow.

Anonymous

@WadCheber That's a very apt description

Wad Cheber

We tend to rag on M&TV, Worldbuilding, and Skeptics more than anything else.

Anonymous

We write short code that often requires a few lifetimes of the universe to run to completion for large inputs

Anonymous

I would never bash on Skeptics. It's too easy. I don't like hitting below the belt.

Anonymous

1:26 AM

Instead I'll just continue to pick on every programming language in existence

Wad Cheber

Questions That Need Answering

Oct 16 '15 at 1:45, 37 minutes total – 64 messages, 7 users, 2 stars

Bookmarked Oct 16 '15 at 2:25 by Wad Cheber

Anyway, we're basically a bunch of clowns, so we don't take ourselves too seriously. Upgoat deleted the comments already, but even if he hadn't, I doubt anyone would have gotten upset.

Anonymous

@WadCheber Well, you'd actually have to have people active in your chatroom for them to get upset.

Anonymous

Heyoooo

Anonymous

(I'm joking, of course :P)

Wad Cheber

HOW DARE YOU!

Actually, the drama you mentioned above has had an impact on chat participation. Things got pretty ugly for a while, and then the elections turned into a clusterf$%k. There was a minor exodus from the site as a result.

Anonymous

1:32 AM

Yeah, I noticed :P

Anonymous

I'm just glad our elections were fairly peaceful

Anonymous

Off to the kitchen, to cook something up :)

Wad Cheber

We had the election to replace the ousted mod and bring in another so we had a total of six, but the election itself led to another mod leaving.

Meh.

@Mego Godspeed.

LegionMammal978

WHY DID I HAVE DO REDISCOVER REDDIT?

(So far, it's that many, times 10)

Leaky Nun

It just closed a second before I wanted to post a solution...

4

Q: Illiteral Prime numbers

Your challenge is to write a program (full program, not a function), that will take an integer and output all prime numbers up to (including) the given integer. Output is any readable list containing all integer primes (array, string, 1 prime per line, whatever you want) and must run to stdout or...