The Nineteenth Byte

Bálint

12:00 AM

@NathanMerrill Oh, sorry, it should be

Helka Homba

@NathanMerrill Use language you want. "Invariant" could be used when discussing symmetry but it doesn't have to be.

Bálint

"A shape is symmetrical, if there exsts a line, to wich the image mirrored is invariant"

That's the official definition

Helka Homba

@Bálint That's rather unclear language imo

Bálint

@HelkaHomba It's 2 AM here, it's hard to translate then

Nathan Merrill

for a multi-line input, do I just say "accept a string"?

are there other possible input methods

trichoplax

12:02 AM

That's reflectional symmetry - invariant under reflection

Nathan Merrill

2d char array

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba A shape is symmetrical if there exists a line (called the axis of symmetry) such that mirroring the shape across the line doesn't change the shape.

quartata

Have we had a zig-zag product challenge?

Alex A.

Is that clearer?

Helka Homba

@AlexA. Better

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

12:03 AM

What brace and indent style is most idiomatic for bash functions?

function() {
    foo()
}

Bálint

The "doesn't change the shape" part is what invariant means

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

function()
{
    foo()
}

Alex A.

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ 3 spaces? Good god.

Bálint

> Invariance is specified mathematically by transformations that leave some quantity unchanged

trichoplax

@AlexA. Did you put the previous version through auto translate -2 times?

Alex A.

12:04 AM

lolwut

Helka Homba

@NathanMerrill Probably good enough. Depends if you want to allow array-style input which may give some languages a leg-up

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@AlexA. That was not intentional.

Alex A.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Bálint

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Then make it intentional

Helka Homba

@AlexA. maybe it was e spaces but got rounded

Alex A.

12:05 AM

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ IMO open brace on the same line as the definition and indent 4 spaces

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

No, it was pi spaces, but got rounded down.

Helka Homba

My stomach always has spaces for pi

trichoplax

In between the two there's an array of strings:
1. 2d array of chars
2. 1d array of lines
3. Single multiline string

Alex A.

Whoa, round(e) == round(pi)

using the standard >= 0.5 go up, otherwise down rule

Helka Homba

@AlexA. They're the same person!

Alex A.

12:07 AM

Whaaaaaaa

t

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@HelkaHomba Sounds like

xkcd

Wow, that onebox looks terrible.

Alex A.

> Image not found

You're right, it does :P

quartata

Hmm, for a graph-theory challenge would it be best to let the programs take input as either an adjacency matrix or an adjacency list?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

There, I fixed it.

It only took me like 80 tries.

Quill

I'm gone for five minutes and alex arrives.

remind me not to close the tab again

quartata

12:09 AM

Oh hey, is graph-theory not a tag here?

Helka Homba

@Quill that was way more than 5min

trichoplax

graphs

quartata

@trichoplax Ah, right. Maybe we should make a tag synonym

Bálint

@HelkaHomba sqrt(-1) 8 Σ π, and it was delicious

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

5

quartata

12:10 AM

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ no one tells Alex what to do

trichoplax

@quartata Sounds good. Although actually applying graph-theory to a challenge would result in graphs showing up as long as you don't type too quickly

Quill

@HelkaHomba it was like 5 minutes after I closed the tab

quartata

@trichoplax I don't have enough rep in graphs to make it I don't think

trichoplax

@quartata If we put our rep together we probably have enough

Alex A.

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Fight the power

quartata

12:12 AM

I mean in graphs

You have to have like 5 upvotes in the tag I think

trichoplax

Pretty sure I have zero in graphs

quartata

Same.

Quill

@trichoplax just like power rangers, you guys should form to become ~~a giant robot~~ rep enabled

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

I have 0 in graphs.

Bálint

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ There aren't a lot of graph challenges

trichoplax

12:13 AM

@Quill Hmmm. Should we become quartataplax or trichotata?

Quill

those are actually both really good names, I can't pick

quartata

Hmm, both sound pretty good

Bálint

@trichoplax quartaplax actually sounds cool

trichoplax

@Bálint Yes that's a bit shorter but still reminds me of both - I like it

Alex A.

@trichoplax To do what? If you're making a tag synonym, I can automodically do it for you.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

12:14 AM

Deja vu

I've heard this pun before.

Helka Homba

@trichoplax I vote for Triquartataplax

trichoplax

graphs graph-theory

quartata

@AlexA. Tag synonym graph-theory to graphs

Alex A.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

@quartata Do both currently exist?

quartata

I thought that mod votes on those weren't binding

@AlexA. graph-theory doesn't exist

3

El'endia Starman

12:15 AM

@quartata They are.

Bálint

@AlexA. graph-theory doesn't

El'endia Starman

And now I'm trying to think of anything that mod votes aren't binding on...

trichoplax

@El'endiaStarman Upvotes?

Alex A.

If I vote on a proposed synonym, it's just a vote.

I have to manually make the synonym.

El'endia Starman

Oh. Well, I never voted on any synonyms on C.SE, I just made them... :P

Quill

12:16 AM

@El'endiaStarman kicking Downgoat out of chat... oh wait

El'endia Starman

@trichoplax Depends on how you define "binding". :P

trichoplax

@El'endiaStarman Instant gold badge...

El'endia Starman

Yeah, SE wouldn't make it that easy for mods. :P

Alex A.

I thought you were saying "instant gold badge" to "kick Downgoat out of chat"

2

+1 for that idea

trichoplax

Context is glorious

Downgoat

12:18 AM

@Quill ಠ_ಠ ;_;

@El'endiaStarman on elections

ev3commander

'Sup

Alex A.

3 mins ago, by Alex A.

If I vote on a proposed synonym, it's just a vote.

Ninja'd

ev3commander

we talk 2 much

Downgoat

Hello @ev3commander!

@AlexA. :(

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Aw. My laptop just randomly died and won't turn on. =(

trichoplax

12:20 AM

@Downgoat Do you mean ಠ;_;ಠ ?

Downgoat

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ D: did u juic it

Bálint

@ev3commander in a chatroom?

@trichoplax no

this one

I meant ;ಠ_ಠ;

12:21 AM

I checked once.

Quill

@trichoplax that looks like a spider

Helka Homba

@El'endiaStarman Idk, I was ahead of Martin in golds at one point before he became a mod... ¬_¬

ev3commander

5 min later, 100 new msgs

Downgoat

@HelkaHomba I read golds as goats ._.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@Downgoat idk how since it's running avacadOS

El'endia Starman

12:21 AM

@HelkaHomba Wasn't Martin one of the first pro-tems?

Bálint

@Downgoat goldengoats

trichoplax

@Quill With the many eyes?

Quill

@trichoplax like the tears look like pincers

trichoplax

////ಠ;;ಠ\\\\

Downgoat

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ i tink u can clik the avocad an it wil juic yuor computr

Helka Homba

12:22 AM

@El'endiaStarman No. There was a long period when it was just Doorknob and Chris (and gnibbler and dcmkee I guess)

El'endia Starman

Ooh, okay.

Downgoat

@Quill why would we kick out the goat when we can kick the evil code reviewer >:)

Bálint

@Downgoat I tried to, but 30 min and no juic

Quill

@HelkaHomba yeah, wasn't Martin chris' choice when he got employed?

Downgoat

@Bálint ;_;

Helka Homba

12:24 AM

@Downgoat I admit to having ∫[0 to 2pi]sin(x)dx goats.

Quill

@Downgoat I haven't posted there in 9 weeks

Downgoat

@HelkaHomba i don't speak greek letters

@Quill :D

Helka Homba

@Downgoat wolframalpha.com/input/?i=integrate(sin(x),+0,+2pi)

Doorknob

@Quill yep

Quill

MIYAVI - WHAT'S MY NAME?

►

@Doorknob yay for knowing things :)

Downgoat

12:26 AM

@Quill I read the title as MARVIN - WHAT'S MY NAME? for some reason...

Alex A.

@Quill And once we graduated, he was overwhelmingly the community's choice

Quill

@AlexA. I was there for that

Alex A.

Who are you?

Downgoat

@AlexA. He is Quill.....

Quill

@AlexA. You should know that.... I'm standing right behind you after all

Helka Homba

12:28 AM

@Quill Birds have short memory spans. (Or is that only fish?)

Quill

It would've been funnier if Alex said that.... because subtle puns

Bálint

poor Alex

ev3commander

Um wur

um wut

Um wut

Why doesnt

graph-theory

exist

trichoplax

@PhiNotPi For some reason I thought you were the author of the tetris challenge - only just realised it's Joe Z...

Downgoat

@ev3commander ?

ev3commander

12:30 AM

starboard

3rd on the list

trichoplax

@ev3commander It made sense in context, but it got starred because it causes confusion out of context

Bálint

@ev3commander because graphs do

Downgoat

@ev3commander why all the Um wats

ev3commander

misspelling. also dont ping me

or star me

Downgoat

@ev3commander you can edit...

Bálint

12:31 AM

Just press up

Helka Homba

@Downgoat He's trying to say Tum-water

PhiNotPi

@trichoplax Also, the challenge is 3 years old, so I don't envision it getting suddenly closed.

Downgoat

do java answers just get upvoted a lot now out of empathy for attempting to golf in Java? brb learning Java

ev3commander

and also,

do you know why water's number is lucky?

Helka Homba

@Downgoat it was also a new user

Bálint

12:32 AM

@Downgoat No, it's upvoted because it's a first try.

trichoplax

@PhiNotPi I mentioned the possibility of a winning criterion to you because I thought it was your challenge - just realised my mistake...

Bálint

And it was mentioned here in the chatroom too

Downgoat

@HelkaHomba I didn't get upvoted as much as a new user :(

Quill

but that's JavaScript, so it balances the love/hate

Bálint

@Downgoat me neither

Downgoat

12:34 AM

@Quill ಠ_ಠ

Helka Homba

@Bálint fyi you can reply to specific messages. Mouseover them and click the arrow at the far right

Bálint

@Downgoat It was mentioned here in chat, so it got a little attention

Downgoat

@Bálint ah ok

Bálint

@HelkaHomba I actually know that, but the @ way is faster, and people usually understand what I speak about

trichoplax

@ev3commander Did you know you can turn off the pings using the speaker icon at the top right of the chat?

Downgoat

12:36 AM

Hey, a cool new user (who also happens to be a fellow upsidedown goat) posted a sweet JS answer:

ev3commander

No.

Downgoat

4

A: 5318008 - Fun with Calculators

JavaScript (ES7), 73 bytes This can be done in ES7 a mere 73 bytes: s=>[for(w of s)'oizehsglb'.search(w)].reverse().join``.replace(/^0/,'0.') Ungolfed: var b = function b(s) { return s.length < 10 && /^[bglioszhe]*$/.test(s) ? s.replace(/./g, function (w) { return 'oizehsglb'.sea...

ev3commander

Es7?

Quill

@trichoplax there's another good way to do that where you smash your computer with a hammer

Bálint

@Downgoat Seriously? (no pun intended)

trichoplax

12:37 AM

@Quill Good to know both ways in case you don't have a hammer to hand

Quill

Smart thinking. That's the kind of thinking that earns you those sweet rep points on LifeHacks.SE

Helka Homba

@Downgoat Enough goatshilling ._.

ev3commander

Is it ES7 or ES6?

Quill

@ev3commander there's both

ev3commander

hmm

es7 exists?

ididntknowthat

Oh i did

Just confusing meself

Quill

12:40 AM

It's just commonly called ES2015

Bálint

@Downgoat The guys post was actually badly golfed, your one isn't

And apparently that makes people feel empathy

Helka Homba

@ev3commander Java 10 is the thing to watch out for

Java 9 exists?

@ev3commander no

then java 10?

12:41 AM

@ev3commander but if microsoft can count in base 9, why couldn't java do the same

ev3commander

what about win95 or win98

Quill

@Bálint s/empathy/pity

Bálint

@Quill thanks

@Downgoat you know what? I upvoted it

ev3commander

press option-cmd-escape

Helka Homba

@ev3commander java9countdown.xyz

trichoplax

12:45 AM

Just realised that this doesn't have a winning criterion other than "first to post". Once the first solution is posted, it may lower the barrier to entry and result in more solutions. Maybe it would be worth adding a winning criterion before the first solution comes in. Like starting position that fits in the smallest rectangular area, or fastest run speed in terms of arena ticks. That would allow for a basic first solution using existing components for pixels and logic gates, but still leave the competition open for more innovative customised solutions later. — trichoplax 2 mins ago

Alex A.

@quartata @trichoplax graph-theory has been created as the master tag for the synonym graphs.

3

trichoplax

Thank you :)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Another google easter egg

Maybe I should nag a goat--close enough

ev3commander

true

!nag Chatgoat

Helka Homba

1:03 AM

Given a square grid of 0s and 1s is there an efficient algorithm for turning it into a checkerboard with the least 0->1 or 1-> 0 replacements?

I guess you need to look at every space anyway so it's O(n^2) no matter what (n = square side length)

PhiNotPi

@HelkaHomba there's only two possible options, right?

Helka Homba

right

PhiNotPi

Although, there's other ways to measure efficiency, like number of read/writes to the board.

Helka Homba

yeah

PhiNotPi

I think the most efficient algorithm is to look at square until there is a clear "winner" (which can take anywhere from half the board to the entire thing), and then only edit squares that you need to.

El'endia Starman

1:09 AM

Most efficient in absolute terms, yes. Still an O(n^2) algorithm.

PhiNotPi

Absolute terms are the terms that matter.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

g'night

A Nerd - I

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Do you know the recursion one?

Downgoat

@Bálint :D :D :D

New Meta Posts

0

Q: Which number formats are acceptable in output?

Comments on this loophole meta answer suggest that more than a simple yes or no answer is required. Which number formats are valid for output? Is there a difference between code-golf and other tags? If a challenge doesn't specify which are acceptable, which should be valid by default? For examp...

Helka Homba

1:21 AM

@ANerd-I Do you know the recursion one?

trichoplax

Do you know the recursion zero?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

BAIIIIIIIII

!

RidiculouslyNicebits

Hmm, Hot Question over at ExplainTheWorldI'mInRightNow.SE.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

1:36 AM

PPCG Minecraft server anyone?

Quill

One of the all time great software stories: Windows 95 was hardcoded to check if SimCity was running. https://t.co/4kBcTVX3Ux

Tweeted by ThePracticalDev on May 26, 2016 at 8:19 PM

2

Alex A.

@Quill I read about this in Joel on Software.

They were overly concerned with backwards compatibility

RidiculouslyNicebits

Makes sense. SimCity was better than Win95, so it should have priority on these kinds of things.

trichoplax

Welcome back @Meanbits :)

RidiculouslyNicebits

But... I was trying to be nice there.

To Maxis anyway.

Downgoat

1:40 AM

@RidiculouslyNicebits what have you done with Geobits D:

Alex A.

"Ridiculously nice bits"? Not sure whether to ?? or ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

RidiculouslyNicebits

It's ambiguous on purpose, so feel free to choose one ;)

Helka Homba

@AlexA. Don't get involved. Don't subscribe to the .*bits cult. o_o

Downgoat

@HelkaHomba brb changing name to goatbits

RidiculouslyNicebits

Where's Irksome Bits when you need him? :(

@Downgoat If you ask Marky, he can change you to goat bits.

Downgoat

1:44 AM

@RidiculouslyNicebits ...

trichoplax

While I wait for meta consensus to develop, does anyone here have an at a glance opinion of whether fractions should be valid number output in a golf? Example

Downgoat

@trichoplax That answer I think had to explicitly cast to a float, which I seems to be redundant so I definitely think fractions should be allowed.

Eastern Bits

@RidiculouslyNicebits I have no clue.

Quill

trichoplax

@Downgoat That reasoning is swaying my opinion

Quill

1:48 AM

solution level tabs-to-spaces-convert :D

Downgoat

@trichoplax what would be a reason to not allow fractions?

it is most probably shorter in languages to do a/b that a+"/"+b anyway

trichoplax

@Downgoat I'm against expressions, like 1+1 or 3*3, so I'd just lumped 7/4 in with those. But I can see the argument for an exception for fractions now

Eastern Bits

@Quill NOOOOOOOOOO

Helka Homba

What of mixed numbers? 1 3/4

Alex A.

@HelkaHomba Wasn't planning on it. Alex Bits just doesn't sound good.

Downgoat

1:50 AM

@Quill what language?

@HelkaHomba ew, who uses mixed numbers

Quill

C#