The Nineteenth Byte

Kenny Lau

00:00

@isaacg Could I pull the doc and make a huge improvement?

quartata

@Downgoat No it doesn't

It goes from code to AST in one step

The RPN stack is because it shunts operators

isaacg

@KennyLau I'm totally open to pull requests

@Downgoat You don't need a tokenizer if everything's 1 character

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Idk.

^^

Downgoat

@quartata okay, then have you finished a lexer for pytek?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Jolf only has one phase: interpreting. it does parsing and evaluation in the same step >_>

quartata

00:01

@Downgoat It's just a parser.

It doesn't work in the way traditional interpreters work. We refer to the interpreting in stages instead

Stage 1 takes the code and makes an AST

Quill

does anyone know any good blog posts on building a language?

quartata

Stage 2 takes the AST and turns it into a slightly more interpreter-friendly tree of special objects with stuff

Stage 3 is when the tree is traversed and stuff gets run

And yes it all works currently

Downgoat

@quartata lexer = the thing that goes over the code

quartata

@Downgoat I know what a lexer is.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

BAI

quartata

00:03

The lexer and the parser are all one stage.

Downgoat

okay, you said it was just a parser before

oh wait

quartata

It is.

Downgoat

>_> I'm an idiot

quartata

Concatenative languages are great

CJam is concatenative

Downgoat

JavaScript languages > all other languages

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

00:04

What is concatenative?

Quill

JavaScript can run on Internet Explorer; how can it not be the best

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ The more formal way of saying stack-based

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

oh really? TIL

Quill

when you can write another language inside a language you've written... that's success

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Why not postfix?

@Quill I need to do this now

quartata

00:06

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That's not a paradigm that's a syntax style

Downgoat

@Quill brb writing language inside cheddar

done

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata oh. then what's pyth and jolf? Procedural?

Quill

@Downgoat maybe finish cheddar first ;p

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ GO DO YOUR HW

Downgoat

00:06

@Quill :/

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

AHHHHHHHH SOWEE FORGOT

Downgoat

okay, fine

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

WTF IS WRONG WITH ME

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ STAHP FORGETTING

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

PRESSING CTRL+W BAI

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

00:07

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ SAME PROBLEM WITH ME, BUT JUST DO IT

bai

Quill

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ you missed it, I was batman in voice chat earlier

how could you miss it

Downgoat

Hi ~~batman~~ @Quill

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Quill NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Downgoat

or were you here this whole time?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Quill i don't believe you.... >_>

Maltysen

00:08

I still see Conor…

also why is Riker in small caps?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

funness

I have come to the small cap side.

Quill

Downgoat

Finishing the Cheddar parser feels like PPCG graduation. I am so damn excited but I don't know what to do with my life anymore...

Zach Gates

Serial voting on my questions ಠ_ಠ

Downgoat

@ZachGates upvotes or downvotes?

Zach Gates

00:14

Both

@Quill Skype group? :o

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

if anybody sees conor, tell him to get his ass doing hw.

@ZachGates both skype and discord exist.

Quill

@ZachGates discord

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ what are you, his mother?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no.

his annoyer.

@ZachGates I always thought your profile pic was you wearing a white and goldish shirt.........

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yes, procedural

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Now I realize that is a brick arch.

I just realized codejam starts in ~24 hours.

Quill

00:20

peanut butter and codejam

Zach Gates

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Wait.. it isn't??

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata cool

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ZachGates I think arch in the bg?

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

....cussing son of a cuss word

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

sowee

you can stays

i no bugs

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

00:24

YAY

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

oh I finished the layouts!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

for what?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ @CoolestVeto @Downgoat: github.com/RikerW/Small-Caps-keyboard-layout

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

oh :D

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ how do I install it?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

00:25

read the readme

Downgoat

sigh I hate reading docs...

Quill

it's like one paragraph long

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

Downgoat

@Quill !!!

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ please golf

Quill

one paragraph... more like one word

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

00:26

TL;DR: Put it in ~/Library/Keyboard Layouts/.

Downgoat

also can I remove the space after "Fraktur" or will that break it?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat it shouldn't matter

Downgoat

Sᴍᴀʟʟ ᴄᴀᴘs

Zach Gates

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ It's actually a fairly edited photo

Downgoat

ʏᴀʏ, ɪᴛ ᴡᴏʀᴋs!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

00:27

nice job m9

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ᴛʜɪs ɪs ᴄᴏᴏʟ, ɢʀᴇᴀᴛ ᴊᴏʙ!

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

And you added it to input sources in system preferences?

And did you even see the others?

Downgoat

𝕪𝕖𝕤

ℑ 𝔡𝔦𝔡

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

coolio

quartata

I don't know if anyone else noticed this but this is cool (read demented):

1

A: "Hello, World!"

BTClang, 53 bytes My newest invention! BTClang is short for Bitcoin language. Although it has nothing to do with bitcoins, it shares some similiarities with this language. Code: 4|$&2h 2|A% 3|Im! 3|%([F 2|!4P 2|"Cv 3|zJO 1|!M 2|!&r Explanation: First of all, each line of the code consists of...

Downgoat

00:32

what does Python do if you add two things that can't be added together?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

errors

Downgoat

ok, that is what Cheddar's behavior will be then

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Python 3.4.2 (v3.4.2:ab2c023a9432, Oct  6 2014, 22:15:05) [MSC v.1600 32 bit (In
tel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 3 + ""
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'str'
>>>

Downgoat

what should Cheddar's behavior be for int+string?

Zach Gates

Check if the string is an int

quartata

00:34

int.toString() + string

Zach Gates

add them as ints if it is (or a float)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^^

Downgoat

should it do String:int + string?

ok

writing the interpreter is waay more fun then writing the parser...

Zach Gates

true

quartata

Coercing to int is nice on paper but it could result in nasty things in practice

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

00:35

I like writing a parser

quartata

If you do do it like that do it like Perl: + is add and . is concat

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

except for the edge cases

quartata

+ always tries to coerce to int

. always coerces to string

Quill

@Downgoat, for primitives you should try and do it like javascript, but for types that inherit Object, throw an error IMO

Downgoat

@Quill NO

quartata

00:35

@Quill oh no no no

Quill

and why is that

Downgoat

JavaScript has the stupidest type casting system

quartata

please no

Downgoat

[] + [] should NOT be ""

Quill

Array isn't a primitive....

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

00:36

That's true, but helpful for JSFuck

Downgoat

@Quill it is (in Cheddar)

quartata

[] + ![] = false

JS everybody

Also @Downgoat please PLEASE make integers and floats separate types

Downgoat

{} + {} = NaN

@quartata why?

quartata

@Downgoat oh my

Quill

console.log([] == "") //true
console.log(![] == !"") //false

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

00:38

Because [] is truthy.

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ that is dumb. [] should be falsey

Quill

@QPaysTaxes that's a chrome and V8 thing, not JavaScript spec

quartata

10000000000000000 == 9999999999999999
true

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat ik

@quartata That's just number types, not just javascript

RenderSettings

@quartata no, make the default int type bignums

bignums are fucking magic

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

00:39

^

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That's why integers should be separate from floats

Downgoat

@quartata Cheddar will use my ulta-fast BigInt library for large numbers

quartata

Floats lose precision like that

@Downgoat Has nothing to do with the size.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata idc

quartata

It's because all numbers are floats in JS

They lose precision which causes dumb shit like that

Downgoat

00:39

bigint = infinite prescision

quartata

If they were longs or something that wouldn't happen.

RenderSettings

I mean, it would happen, just at a very high number instead

quartata

Please PLEASE do NOT make integers and floats one type

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ZachGates check your skype account.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata shut up already >_>

RenderSettings

00:40

Oh, long int instead of long float

quartata

@RenderSettings Yeah.

Downgoat

@quartata bignum = infinite prescision

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ You understand why that's a problem right?

Downgoat

there is no need to sepearate them

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

> infinite

Dennis

00:40

Found a better method and fixed a bug in #

RenderSettings

bignum = black magic

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat SPELEING

quartata

@Downgoat Why use a heavy-memory arbitrary precision number when a long can hold both those numbers

RenderSettings

incidentally, Hoon's atoms are bignums and it's glorious

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata I really don't care honestly. it doesn't affect my coding, so I don't care. If it were to, then I'd just use a different tool.

Downgoat

00:41

@QPaysTaxes ints will convert to bigints once a certain limit has been exceeded

RenderSettings

>heavy-memory
bro do you even gmp

quartata

@RenderSettings Yes I do

Still no point in using one when a long is fine

Dennis

@quartata Not false, "false".

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

quartata

@Dennis even worse

@QPaysTaxes [] + ![] doesn't produce false it produces the string "false"

Dennis

00:42

> [] + ![]
< "false"

RenderSettings

haha what

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

IKR?

Maltysen

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ finished your hw?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

It makes sense if you actually consider JS's arithemtic process.

quartata

![] = 0

[] = ""

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

00:42

@Maltysen not even close

@quartata that's not right

Dennis

> {} + {}
< NaN
> ({} + {})
< "[object Object][object Object]"

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

[1,2] + [3,4]
"1,23,4"

rofl

RenderSettings

@Dennis ALL OF THESE EXAMPLES ARE PERFECTLY FINE, MOVE ALONG CITIZEN

Maltysen

@Dennis ok, that one I don't get

quartata

I think it's [] + false -> "" + false -> "false"

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

00:43

oh, I get it

Quill

I'm planning on writing a blog post that explains that javascript stuff

quartata

It coerces the boolean to a string

@Quill You can't defend this kinda stuff. I'm sorry, it's just wrong.

=== is great though

Maltysen

@quartata so useful though

quartata

Not even Perl does this level of coercion, and Perl freaking STORES numbers as strings

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Quill Please write it at least unbiasedly, I do not want to read another fucking bunch of vapid nonsense

Quill

00:44

@quartata I can and will defend this stuff... and then I will eat a pizza

quartata

@QPaysTaxes Well, it's one of three ways it can store it.

Maltysen

@Quill \o/ js pizza shield

quartata

Depends on the context.

Downgoat

Please recommend Built-ins for Cheddar

4

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

How can you attack JS if you stand behind a shield of perl?

Dennis

00:45

@Maltysen (Forgive my terminology. I have no interest in learning JavaScript properly.) {} is a code block in the first example, but a dictionary in the second.

RenderSettings

That...might be even worst?

quartata

@Maltysen Really? The last thing I want in production code is having to spend 10 minutes figuring out how something gets coerced and having it explode in my face

Quill

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ do you mean that from the perspective of a javascript hater or fanboy

quartata

@Quill fanboy

Maltysen

@quartata i'm not saying its good overall, just that its useful (but IMO tink its is good overall)

Downgoat

00:46

@QPaysTaxes PascalCase for classes. camelCase for methods

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Quill ?

quartata

Although both terms are derogatory IMO please don't use them in any intellectual debate on JS

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ where did he do that?

ohai @Phrancis

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata There's no such thing. the same shit is thrown around every time

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

I saw that.

quartata

00:46

@Maltysen Useful in golfing that's for sure

Maltysen

@Dennis why is it different?

Downgoat

> Everything Jelly has. 'Nuff said.

3

...

Quill

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ did you mean like "don't be a biased fanboy" or "don't be a biased hater"?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Quill Be unbiased

quartata

Oh shit does that form show my real name on my Google account

Dennis

00:47

@Maltysen Because a code block in parens would be a syntax error, so it's assumed to be a dict.

quartata

@Dennis Code blocks aren't a type; I think that's just what happens when you add dictionaries

Maltysen

@Dennis oh that's wicked cool

Downgoat

> Number, PIZAAA

who is posting these ._.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Not me

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat sowee

Maltysen

00:48

@quartata empties eval to undef iirc

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

I only did that one.

quartata

@QPaysTaxes Because I have a Google+ account for RL shit

And I was using Chrome on an old computer where I don't have a different Google account as default

Downgoat

@quartata it only stores the timestamp of posting

quartata

@Downgoat OK, thanks.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Can we see results?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

00:49

@quartata are you a criminal or something?

and ^^

quartata

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ No...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Then why are you so afraid?

Just wondering.

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Because his name is "Herbert Tata"

Maltysen

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ @quartata IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE YOU HAVE NOTHING TO BE AFRAID OF

quartata

00:50

Not a fan of having my privacy invaded, that's all

Maltysen

> varyable

hehe

Quill

mapToFortyTwo haha

Dennis

> {42}
< 42
> {42:42}
X Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token }(…)
> ({42})
X Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token }(…)
> ({42:42})
< Object {42: 42}

@quartata ^

Downgoat

Whoever posted "split to array grid of chars and rows". could you explain what that is supposed to mean?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Quill That was mine :D

@Downgoat That was me

Quill

00:52

@Dennis the second example works fine on chrome

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

string.split`
`.map(x => x.split``);

Downgoat

ah, okay

Dennis

@Quill The latest version of Chrome wraps parens around everything you execute in the dev console. It's not supposed to do that.

Downgoat

> String how do I get to the bus stop?

ಠ_ಠ

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

It's not golfing, just ES6.

Quill

00:54

I'd argue using template strings to simplify the parenthesis on the function is golfing

Maltysen

@Downgoat where is this from?

quartata

@Downgoat Anyways, submitted a whole bunch of built-ins

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Quill shhh

quartata

(serious ones)

Tell me if you need any explanations

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

me too

Downgoat

00:55

@Maltysen from the Cheddar built-ins reccomendation

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

:D

quartata

(they should be fairly obvious)

Maltysen

btw is cheddar a golfing lang?

quartata

No.

Maltysen

oh lel, some of my submissions should be ignored then

Downgoat

00:56

@Maltysen it is a real big-boy language

quartata

I feel somewhat guilty because some (very few) of the ideas I'm slipping you are also ideas I'm putting in Pytek...

I'm sorry @El'endiaStarman I've betrayed you

Downgoat

> Any interable, my dog is named steve

...

quartata

OK...

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