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4:00 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing does your answer to the fibonacci string challenge just get F(i) lol
@hyper-neutrino It gets the ith element of F(i), yeah :P
Which is enough I think
Someone DVed me and I'm back to a non-multiple-of-ten D:
Actually, no, it gets the ith element of F(i+2), due to ¡ being wierd
Guess I'm going to improve KotH some more given that those seem to be getting popular lately
okay. was just curious cuz it looked like it :P yeah it's enough just will compute way more values than needed but it's code-golf, who cares :P
4:02 PM
@RedwolfPrograms I have an idea
you play uno
and that's it
It's a very luck based game
Is there really a strategy to uno tho?
some, but not enough
Lots of real world games unfortunately don't translate well into KotHs
IDK maybe you don't need any strategy for a good kOTh?
4:04 PM
I think you need a good balance of skill, strategy, and luck to make a good KotH
IS there any kind of kotH based on ludo?
let's test it
Too much luck? It's a random draw. Too much skill? Optimized easily. Too much strategy? Unsolved mathematical problem, brute force it.
Challenge: make an entirely luck-based kOTh and get lots of upvotes
@Wezl I unfortunately have done the first part by accident. No luck on part 2.
4:05 PM
yeah not guaranteed to be possible
Also I will report you to the police for that capitalization
OOOoOoooORrRrRrrr ThhHHHhHhhhhhhhHhhhIIiiiiiIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiIIIIIIs
Man, it's not always helpful, but when it is, Jelly's dyadic ¡@ is really helpful
For those who aren't familiar, it's basically a generalised Fibonacci operator, so f¡@ for a dyadic function f calculates the Fibonacci sequence but with + subbed with f
did @RedwolfPrograms ragequit or is he flagging my account
I don't really mind that, kOTh is just painful :p
4:16 PM
says the person who apparently title-cases SQL
The worst part is the documentation actually does that
lowercase SQL is the only valid way to go
How do you pronounce sql
i use lowercase sql cuz i find it easier to read than shouting
@Wezl squill
4:17 PM
@Wezl Ess Que Ell
I say Esquel
@RedwolfPrograms Thanks for the Reviewer badge :D
@Wezl Structured Query Language
i usually say "sequel" but the correct answer is "however your employer/boss pronounces it"
4:19 PM
No, the correct answer is "sorry I don't know SQL"
imagine having an employer/boss
@RedwolfPrograms how do you pronounce that?
Feb 28 at 0:59, by Redwolf Programs
Imagine having a job
@RedwolfPrograms I know the only relevant bit of SQL: DROP TABLE :P
Same way that the only bash I know is rm -rf / --no-preserve-root
CMC: Take a positive integer as input, then return a program in the same language. Its length should be the inputted number. No exact scoring criterion because this is a CMC and I'm lazy, but the programs outputted should product the largest output possible.
@RedwolfPrograms Jelly, 3 bytes
Not the largest possible output, but a big output
4:25 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Jelly, 5 bytes
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

BeefsterMake it prime with the smallest suffix primes code-golf Given a positive integer as input, output the smallest positive integer such that appending its digits (in base 10) to the end of the input number will form a prime number. Examples 1 --> 1 2 --> 3 8 --> 3 9 --> 7 11...

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

l4m2Given a table(2D array of strings), arrange width of each column to shorten total width, such that containment in each cell can be fully shown with a space after it, being allowed to occupy next several cells if they are empty. In another word, for each column provide a width \$W_j\$, making \$\s...

@RedwolfPrograms Jelly, 6 bytes
Imagine having the ability to use TIO
@RedwolfPrograms Python 2, 22 bytes
I think repeated application of ! produces a larger number than repeated application of * (power), right? 9!!!! is larger than ((9*9)*9)*9?
4:27 PM
I had pretty much the same idea lol, ”!ẋṖ9;
Not sure this is optimal.
@cairdcoinheringaahing oh it's not even close lol
((9^9)^9)^9 can compute
9!! doesn't even compute cuz
You might be better off using some bytes for a quick to repeat application of a few factorials.
362880 factorial like
have fun
(9!)! is on the order of 10^1.86mil
1.6097144004100126211034436107333177265055203976228861583 × 10^1859933
4:30 PM
(10^1.8) million, or 10^(1.8 million)?
@Adám Hang on, yeah, that'll be huge, gimme a second
@pxeger The latter. The former is tiny in comparison.
APL: ,∘'9'⍴∘'!'⍤-∘≢⍨
Python 2, 25 bytes Try it online!
@rak1507 Simples: {1↓⍵1/'!9'}
4:31 PM
lol that is slightly easier
But still not optimal. You want
Can't we just append comments at the end of answer? It increases our code length (score) too
!⍣9⍣9⍣9…!9 or something.
@Wasif the code length isn't the score , the goal is to output a valid program with that length, that produces a big number
4:33 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Jelly, 11 bytes
Essentially, we apply ! 9! times, then do that again \$2^{n-4}\$ times
@cairdcoinheringaahing Can you not make it repeat 9! times or something?
@rak1507 Maybe !⍣r⍣r⍣r…!r←!9 ?
@Adám yeah, something like that
there will be sufficiently many bytes after a while that you could implement something that grows faster but that's probably a waste of time trying
@Adám Yeah, that's better, for only 1 extra byte: 12 bytes
For an input of 10, it calculates:
a = 9

9! times do:
  9! times do:
    9! times do:
      9! times do:
        a = a!

that's gotta be like at least 3 or maybe even 4
Might be 5, still working it out
4:38 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Can you not do that !9 times?
@Adám I don't think so, but I think my explanation might be wrong, and it's actually bigger
I want 9! times do:9! times do:…(!9 times)…9! times do:a=a!
Correction, for an input of 10, it does:
a = 9

a! times do:
  a! times do:
    a! times do:
      a! times do:
        a = a!

Where a! is recalculated each time it begins a new loop
reminder to everyone: nominations for TNB room owner close at UTC midnight today (in 7 hours) (though everyone who intends to nominate has probably done so already; just giving a last reminder)
As an example of just how big ¡ can go, this is a version that starts with a = 2 and replaces ! with increment
(Yeah, it times out)
4:44 PM
o.O wow. yeah i think that's gotta be close to optimal lol
@cairdcoinheringaahing Ouch.
@cairdcoinheringaahing you can get way higher than that, look at this
I have a program that's one byte shorter than yours, and outputs a program of the same form as yours but much, much longer
the extra byte could be used to stick a V in there and eval the generated program
Forgot about ȷ, that makes it insanely larger
with a few more bytes you could apply this technique recursively to itself
We need a bigger universe.
4:52 PM
@ais523 You need a at the end to comply with the original CMC (output length = input)
ah, I was ignoring the original question, just showing off a technique
Ignoring the CMC, we can make it even larger by using Ø% (\$2^{32}\$)
how new is that one?
I think it was added with the latest bunch of atoms
also, that's two bytes long, and using larger constants is normally one of the worst ways to increase the size of a big-number-calculating program, the extra byte may well be usable elsewhere
4:56 PM
Yeah, using ȷ! as the first 2 bytes would be much larger, I was sticking with the "constant followed by a bunch of s" pattern
there's actually an interesting question about PPCG rules: a golfing language would benefit from a builtin that expands to some specific, incredibly large number (for algorithms where you want to do something a large but finite number of times); larger numbers would be usable with more algorithms, but if it's large enough the programs will never run to completion so there'd be no way to test them
@ais523 How about a "run for exactly 200 quadrillion years" builtin?
@pxeger that would be a similar idea and have the same problem, I think
although you'd want an exact number of instructions executed, rather than realtime, so that you got deterministic results despite things like CPU load and processor frequency scaling
(as a nondeterministic result is less generally usable)
@cairdcoinheringaahing Starting with a = 1 and it still times out:
1‘ followed by n ‘¡

n  out
0  2
1  3
2  7
3  2047
4  times out
that function appears to be named w_n(2)
according to a quick OEIS search
(although the results are off by 1)
I guess the actual function is therefore \n.w_n(2)-1
where \ is a lambda function definition
5:18 PM
Q: Division and remainder

LeoThis challenge, while probably trivial in most "standard" languages, is addressed to those languages which are so esoteric, low-level, and/or difficult to use that are very rarely seen on this site. It should provide an interesting problem to solve, so this is your occasion to try that weird lang...

5:33 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing I was just thinking if the name Jay in your profile des is your real name or it comes from Jelly. :P
@math It's the name I go by IRL, nothing to do with Jelly :P
oh, ok.
Ooh, Low Blow just dropped a position!
Yeah, Simple Killer's so much better against Tit for tat, Low Blow can't keep up on points
Still number 1 in the overall rankings tho \o/
Can't you detect Tit for Tat in some way?
And then just return 1 each time?
5:38 PM
I can and do, but Simple Killer plays 100 against Tit for tat, which plays it back, so Simple Killer gets ~100000 points against Tit for tat, while Low Blow gets a few hundred
Then can you return 100 each time?
As soon as you play anything other than 100 to Tit for tat, the strategy is to drive it down to 1, otherwise it'll just beat you
@user No, cause I don't know which bot I'm up against in the first round, and playing 100 first means I get fewer points overall than just driving Tit for tat down
Hmm, then you'd have to open with 100, thus also gaining 100 from Dedicated Counter. Edit: nvm
I think I'm going to make a computer in Minecraft this afternoon
@RedwolfPrograms See you in a few years :P
5:40 PM
Might do it on a creative server so y'all can pop in and laugh at me from time to time
The wins for Low Blow is annoying, it wins against Hard-coded 90% of the time, must have just gotten unlucky this time
I hate non-deterministic things :(
Probabilities are evil.
Probably Definitely why I failed stats and am failing quantum physics
CMQ: What review queue do you have the fewest reviews in?
Reopen Votes
Same here, 31 :/
5:46 PM
It's likely to be LA or RV for most users, seeing as they have <10k total reviews
Can you see all your stats for review queues in the same place?
No, but you can just click the "Stats" button for all 6
Oh ok
There's only 7 relevant numbers on each :P
First Posts/Late Answers (2 for each)
5:47 PM
I have the most of FP
@cairdcoinheringaahing ?
@RedwolfPrograms Same here, 442
@RedwolfPrograms CMQ: Fun misinterpretations of FP (don't actually answer this)
@user Need Review, Reviews Today, All time reviews, the 3 badges progress bars and your all time reviews
Oh, I see
5:51 PM
CMP from the SO blog: what's your favourite badge on CGCC?
Nice Answer/Question. It makes me feel appreciated, more so than Famous Question.
What's a good high-performance fungeoid I should use in my next project?
6:07 PM
@Lyxal I still only have 68 unique badges, but I just hit 69 silver badges ;P
@Wezl IIRC Befunge-98 has stuff like shell commands available to it, so maybe that?
6:24 PM
Grim Trigger looks like a fun bot
It's not going to win a lot, but it could decrease other bots' points
It's giving Simple Killer more points (and so is High to Low) :/
Plus it means I have to do more bot analysis to stay competitive. I definitely should've created a bot that learns, rather than gets taught
6:41 PM
Time to train a neural network :P
Do 10k users get notified of any flag on chat, or only ones for sites they're on?
Any room's flags
I've been notified about flags in a room on Portuguese SO (or some other language) before :P
@user Grim Trigger and High to Low have secured Naiive's points win over Low Blow :/ Naiive now gets ~60k more than Low Blow
Naiive was definitely far too OP to be an example bot :P
6:54 PM
Just Random would have been way better, honestly
OP's too smart for their own good :P
1: Crab with 15/16 wins
1: Low Blow with 15/16 wins
Isn't Crab supposed to win every match?
I don't even know what happened there
I guess there was a tie? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Me neither, I'm running a 10 match competition so I turned off my score reports :/
I'll see if I can repo it again
Probably a tie yeah
I think it must have been that Meandian returned 1 on it's first round, so no-one got any points
7:04 PM
I just wrote my first answer in Stack Exchange! Let me know if it's invalid.
avoids urge to comment "Nice first answer! Welcome to Stack Exchange!"
As an aside, I actually modified the parser to just print a warning instead of erroring on unmatched closing braces and parentheses so I could treat them as comment characters, but 1) that approach didn't pan out 2) it would've been longer than 2 bytes and 3) it was cheating to modify my parser for this challenge.
@RedwolfPrograms :P
The physics differences between SMB1 and SMB3 are so annoying
Most of the time when I die in SMB1 it's because I jump straight off a cliff expecting to be able to do some specific thing
Does that make your head hurt?
Considering switching to :P
7:08 PM
laughs in q:
@user Not as much as multithreaded Node :P
I really want to answer this in my language :P
I don't really know why this wasn't very well received. Any ideas?
@RedwolfPrograms It got distilled down into an "easy" formula that every answer used
Hmm, true.
7:28 PM
Is a language not Turing complete if it can't produce a quine?
a language can be Turing complete without having I/O
It has IO, just not strings
A string can be defined as a list of ASCII code points
And I have no idea if it can produce a quine even if it had strings
or, a language can be written in a weird code page yet have no non-ASCII support
7:30 PM
But I'd think any otherwise TC language (capable of IO which can represent itself in some way) has a quine, right?
But how do you choose which representation is fair to use?
@RedwolfPrograms Idk
Well, how does your interpreter take input?
If it's ASCII/UTF-8, then that
It's pushed onto the stack
Wait no
@RedwolfPrograms No strings, although I can represent strings as stacks of stacks of empty stacks
7:31 PM
I meant to ask how the programs are formatted. It's ASCII, right?
I guess you could do stacks of stacks, where the length of the stack is a code point
Magic the Gathering is TC
@JohnDvorak ???
There's no way you can make a quine with that
7:34 PM
@RedwolfPrograms You were right
The only problem is finding the quine now :(
@JohnDvorak of course it's a Trading Card game :P
I was very confused about the pinned message, before remembering that mods can edit any message at any time :/
7:50 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing :P yeah i decided not to post another message because i've already posted a reminder earlier but this makes the pin more visible and maybe draws attention to the fact that it's closing in 4 hours?
again, not expecting new nominations, it's gone about how i'd expect it to
poor wezl :(
yeah :c
Wasif and Wezl were the only users who got downvoted, and Wezl's on +4/-6 :/
4/6 vs 4/1 is very surprising to me...
7:57 PM
@Wezl FYI, Hawk returns floats (.0 floats but still). I'd suggest changing sum(map(lambda t: t[0], last_results)) // (len(last_results)*1.5) to int(sum(map(lambda t: t[0], last_results)) / (len(last_results)*1.5))
* Wezl is very very slightly offended at the python version being shown first

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