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3:00 PM
The former.
 
Hope
 
A broad spec at the very least.
 
I've started writing my language in December, and I still don't have a spec.
 
@QPaysTaxes Well I usually have a general idea and make the interpreter as easy to modify and change later on.
 
At least plan beforehand the data structure
 
3:01 PM
@QPaysTaxes I write a spec.
A spec is sooooo helpful.
 
Let's just put it this way: jumping into it helps you form new ideas about what you need faster, but writing a spec causes less kicking of self in the long run
 
For example, I'm writing one called "Checkpoint"; I have no actual code yet, just this:
/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
 * CHECKPOINT - By Conor O'Brien *
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
 * Language Overview *
 * * * * * * * * * * *
 * Checkpoint's layout is the manipulation of
 * "vans"; these are coordinates with three
 * attributes:
 *   - Speed "S"
 *   - Number of Passengers "P"
 *   - Distance "D"
 *
 * Thus, a van can be represented as a three-tuple
 * (S, P, D). Each van travels along a straight road;
 * D is the distance from the origin point. Speed is
 * measured in units/step, and distance in units.
 
@QPaysTaxes I always write a spec, but it will evolve as I go along and see how the language works in practice.
 
For languages with like 10 commands, it is pretty simple to write the specs beforehand, but with like 150 commands, it is better to get started on a codebase first.
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ You really need to stop writing esolangs.
 
For a minimalistic esolang, there's not much room for evolution though.
 
@Solver :( why?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I was joking :) Crazy is good.
 
@QPaysTaxes No such thing.
 
3:04 PM
@Dennis Can you pull Cinnamon Gum? It has a library it needs now: exrex. You can get it with pip/easy_install
 
@QPaysTaxes and remember: excel spreadsheets are a lifesaver
 
Oh true
BAI GONNA LEARN FRENCH
3
@QPaysTaxes maybe later
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Bon courage.
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Au revoir!
 
3:05 PM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ {insert french goodbye phrase here}
How does one French?
 
hahaha
 
wait shoot I'm not supposed to be here
 
3:07 PM
nooooo
 
Great minds waste time alike —PhiNotPi
 
Why does QPaysTaxes have a unicorn as their avatar?
 
In honour of this website network
 
got another one!
 
\o/ I'm the #1 rep user on LL!
 
3:10 PM
@TonHospel of course the next challenge is to make it multi-core :)
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Language Learning beta
 
ninja'd
 
He has 501 rep :P
 
XD
82 q/d o_O
bai
so do I bai
 
3:14 PM
@Lembik: That's actually not that hard since the dimension extensions are independent. But Seeing how fast the complexity goes up it won't gain much in n value
 
@TonHospel you might get to n = 13 :)
or even n = 14... I just tested n =14 and it takes about 2 minutes
so that seems plausible on my cpu
 
Going to actually learn something.
bai
 
@TonHospel I can't find any actual math to tell me what size I should expect the output to be surprisingly
for n = 14 and m = 7 the output is less than 3 mostly
but not always
@TonHospel do you have any feeling for how large the output should be for a random M?
 
@Downgoat sure.
 
No, but I think I can write an estimator. Lemme work on that a bit...
 
3:20 PM
I went to sleep.
 
@TonHospel cool!!
 
0
Q: What language should I use for a single language KOTH?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJI'm working on a KOTH contest, and it is a little bit more on the complicated side. Each bot is expected to keep track of a lot of state. For example, move history, position in the board, position of other bots, etc. It seems to me like the best way to do this would be to make each bot an instan...

 
.___.
 
@StackCodeGolf/mods refresh my new profile so it shows up in chat. It has a new avatar.
 
3:30 PM
@EasterlyIrk No, I just refreshed his profile. :P
 
oh
nvm
>.<
 
Yes. It's Unipants! An unicorn looking like pants.
 
@zyabin101 wow... uhh... interesting idea?!
 
^
It looks like @BentNeeHumor's icon a bit.
 
@EasterlyIrk BentNeeHumor?
 
3:32 PM
Does anyone else here see a fifth mod on this page: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/users?tab=moderators
 
@Downgoat TheNumeralOne.
@GamrCorps wtf
 
@EasterlyIrk I think it was TheNumberOne
 
@GamrCorps True.
 
@GamrCorps Kasra. Yeah, apparently that's a common thing. Don't know why.
 
Kasra Rahjerdi is a CM
 
3:33 PM
:P
 
JavaScript is an option which would allow you to host the KotH directly in a Stack Snippet for example. Using something offline has the advantage that someone can make a dummy implementation of the class and forward the calls to another process, which would then allow other languages to participate at the expense of some convenience. Whether you can afford Python really depends on how fast your controller will have to be. If performance is a concern, Java might be the better choice. — Martin Büttner ♦ 16 mins ago
@MartinBüttner +1 for JavaScript
3
 
I just noticed that @Dennis's hometown is here.
 
@Downgoat JS is best.
 
3:34 PM
@EasterlyIrk yeah, I'm pretty sure he does live on PPCG
 
> Dennis♦
The Nineteenth Byte
oops
didn't mean to get alex in that pic.
 
0
A: Are the brackets fully matched?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'BʀɪᴇɴReng v.3.3, 137 bytes, noncompeting Try it here! aií0#zl2,q!~1ø :"]"eq!v:"}"eq!v:">"eq!v:")"eq!v)1z+#z ve¤[2-2< < < +1< >]?v$$$zÀ0#z >ðq!vlqv¤l2%[1Ø \$2+)1z+#z/ ~n1/ There's a bit more golfing to be done, but at least it works. I added a command ð to keep track of stacks ...

@EasterlyIrk What have I done
 
I'm going to get a better profile for myself...
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ oh god oh god oh god oh god
That looks... Sucktastic and disturbed.
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Is this dubstep? :P
 
3:36 PM
@El'endiaStarman XD What makes you say that?
@EasterlyIrk I spent two days on the thing >_<
 
For some reason, it looks somewhat like how dubstep sounds. :P
7
 
hm ... ^
 
I have a 500 byte version+, but it stopped working and I just implemented a new command
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I like it, but I actually saw it as a face not as code.
 
3:38 PM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ what is SeraisToi?
 
@EasterlyIrk Serais Toi?
 
a empty repo he has.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

FliiFeIs the path correct ? Given a string, your program must determine wether or not Jack can reach John, following the signs on the map. You must return a truthy or falsy value. The input string will contain the following characters : and \n (space). Only used for padding. >, <, ^, v, are the "s...

 
It also means "Would you?" in french.
 
@EasterlyIrk most probably an esolang
 
3:42 PM
empty repo though, I WANT MOAR CODEZ
 
is Peter Taylor still active on PPCG?
 
@Lembik yeah, he's still living in the sandbox
 
@EasterlyIrk ?
oh
 
@Downgoat :)
 
3:48 PM
> Last seen 12 secs ago
 
Still working on the code design
 
@EasterlyIrk It looks nothing like me.
 
okai
@BentNeeHumor green with pokey thing. Yes, it does.
 
The poky thing on me is a tongue, not a horn :P
 
3:52 PM
still pokey
 
Anyways, he looks more like pi than one.
 
I really want to post these super cool Cinnamon Gum answers, but Dennis is AFK and hasn't pulled Cinnamon Gum yet. #ninteenthworldproblems
 
I have 30+ answers in Reng that I'm not posting because there's no reason to :P
 
The new g and h modes are actually super cool.
 
3:55 PM
@quartata @Dennis you know what to do.
 
He's afk, he doesn't know what to do
 
Clone from Cinnamon Gum's repo.
@quartata Now he does.
 
@zyabin101 But he's probably teaching right now
He can't just say "excuse me someone on the internet needs me" and walk out of class in the middle of a lecture
Well, maybe
lol
 
His computer's probably in the back of the hall buzzing with ping while he's talking
 
"BRB, kittehs on teh Interwebz needz codez, LOL"
 
4:04 PM
How often do elections happen?
Once a year? Once somebody resigns?
 
@PhiNotPi Once a year.
 
okay
 
Every year SE asks the moderators if they think the site needs more moderators; if so an election happens.
 
@PhiNotPi Yes, normally once a year. This depends on workload to some extent, though. And yes, usually, there's an election after someone steps down.
 
There's no schedule.
 
4:05 PM
I think it's been two years since the last election on C.SE. A good number of community members are doing a lot of the mod work, which is awesome.
 
Elections on SE are sooo much better than in real life :P
@El'endiaStarman I will probably never get enough rep to be mod :(
 
@Solver Technically, rep doesn't matter. In practice, if you don't get very much rep, you probably weren't/aren't particularly involved with the community.
 
@Solver you don't need that much rep. Just a lot of dedication to the site
 
I guess I'm just friendly.
Thanks for the encouragement, though :P
The reason I brought up rep:
I don't EVEN KNOW CJAM.
Period.
Or full stop.
Whatever you want to call it.
 
I prefer exclamation marks!
 
4:10 PM
@Solver I don't know CJam, Pyth, or Jelly. :P
 
XD
I only know Javascript.
I'm gonna make a JS for golfing.
 
Like Jolf or Japt? :P
 
@Solver I've been here for ~9 months, 99% of my answers are PowerShell
 
@El'endiaStarman JOLF IS BEAUTIFUL
@Solver There's already 5+. Be careful
 
100% of my answers are in my own language :P
 
4:13 PM
Which one?
 
Cookie.
 
Wait a sec...
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ TEASCRIPT is also very beautiful
@Solver ^
 
@Solver [text](link)
 
4:14 PM
Teascript?
 
OK, 95% ... 154 PowerShell answers, 162 total answers.
 
@Downgoat It is! But it wasn't one of the choices.
 
@El'endiaStarman Knew that, did it by accident.
 
Fixed it anyway. :)
 
When I edit a post, all of the words are white.
???
 
4:17 PM
@Solver Are you self-taught?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yes :P
 
\o/ Me too. Can I make some suggestions?
 
I knowz NOTHINGZ :P
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yes please!
 
"w"| wHello, ŕ. Tihis was read from args. Use \[] for expressions and \\ to escape chars."
num| *Pushes num onto stack*
str| *Pushes str onto stack*
" "| *Pushes new stack section*
"$"| $var1:the value as string$                                                                                                         *************************************************
"£"| £var1£ *Places value of var1 onto stack*                                                                                            * If no value specified, value defaults to null*
This is the plan that I'm working on.
 
4:20 PM
cool!
 
Thanks!
@QPaysTaxes That's actually purposeful :P
 
Code suggestions:
Change lines 128, 68 to `if(prog[n] == "{" || prog[n] == "[") {`
Remove line 61.
Line 48 can be `n += 2;` (remove lines 49 & 50)
Line 41 can become `while(true) {`
Line 32 can become `if (prog[n] == "'" || prog[n] == '"') { break; }` (remove line 33)
Also, is it a golfing language?
 
Well done, @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ! That was the fastest that someone has understood my bad code!
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yes.
 
@Solver I coded like you once ;)
 
haha
:P
 
4:24 PM
@Solver Cool! Then no implicit is best: keep your syntax, but also add one-letter variables-assignment and receiving. (OPnameOP) isn't very golfy.
 
Ancestral Vision got unbanned in Modern, and there's nobody in the other chat room to laugh with me at this, so here you go:
 
> Image not found
:(
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I was thinking of that previously :P Yes, I will include.
 
@Solver Cool :)
 
Thanks!
 
4:26 PM
@Rainbolt Was he resuspended or something?
Actually, I have no idea what's going on.
 
The card has suspend
You can cast it for one mana, then four turns later you can draw three cards for free.
 
Which I suppose is a good thing for the player?
 
More cards is better. Three cards for one mana is probably the best rate in the entire game. The waiting time is the only downside.
 
So it was banned from tournament play for some time?
 
Games still last four turns? Last I played, mid-2000s, most matches were over in like 3 or 4 turns.
 
4:30 PM
The ban list from Legacy (an older format) was basically copied when Modern was born. They've taken a closer look at the ban list recently and decided that while the card was abusable in Legacy, it isn't as abusable in Modern.
 
What're the differences between Legacy and Modern?
 
Modern includes cards from 8th edition forward. Legacy includes all cards.
Vintage is just Legacy but instead of cards being outright banned, some cards are restricted to one copy and nothing is banned.
With... what?
 
hi @flawr
 
So Legacy is more unbalanced?
 
The power level is Vintage > Legacy > Modern > Standard, with Vintage being the most powerful and Standard being the least powerful.
 
4:34 PM
^ chart of how the different candidates compared to one another
 
No surprise that I'm losing to everyone. :P
But what do the numbers mean?
 
The power level isn't necessarily to do with the cards themselves (though things like Black Lotus are ridiculously powerful), but that more combinations are available the more expansions you add into the mix.
 
The numbers are the number of votes. At a given (row A, column B), then N number of voters ranked candidate A above B.
 
I'm trying to find a cycle, but I can't
 
@NathanMerrill A cycle in that chart, there isn't one.
 
4:37 PM
@PhiNotPi Wait, so 31 people voted for me above Martin?
 
@El'endiaStarman Yes
 
....huh.
 
ooh, there's a minor one
if you compare the Ph and Me columns
Ma vs Ph = 361, Ma vs Me = 368
however, Al vs Ph = 163, Al vs Me = 161
 
...what is this?
 
whenever I pose a serous challenge like codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/77051/… I always want to advertise it to the world's math loving puzzle solvers. I must get over this feeling :)
 
4:42 PM
@NathanMerrill I don't think that's really considered a cycle, though.
 
not sure what to call it
 
It means that, people who supported Martin were more likely to support me than Mego, while people who supported Alex were more likely to support Mego than me.
Maybe... it's the sign of a "political spectrum" (albeit a very small one)
 
lol
we're diverging into a 2 party system!
 
It'd be hard to keep a 2-party system with STV, though.
 
its a pretty small difference, so it likely negligible
 
4:44 PM
I'd be the Trump of the election if I was still there, probably :P
 
trump! This was briefly the only chat room on the planet not discussing the donald :)
 
@PhiNotPi wait, doesn't it mean the opposite?
 
It's 163 vs 161 not statistically significant.
 
Godwin's law, but more like Trumpwin's Law
 
Ma vs Ph = 361, Ma vs Me = 368 means that more people ranked Martin over Mego than over me.
 
4:47 PM
is this counting comparisons between unlisted candidates?
 
Yes
 
ah, ok
then, yeah, that makes sense
 
Unlisted candidates are considered equal to each other, but below ranked candidates.
 
"Unlisted" meaning candidates where no one voted for both at once?
 
oooh, most non-mod candidates (except for Mego) got a significant jump after Doorknob
@El'endiaStarman it means that if I voted Alex, then Martin, then Mego, my ballot looks like 1. Alex, 2. Martin, 3. Mego, 4. Everybody else
 
4:52 PM
Ahhh, okay, that makes sense.
 
@quartata Installed and pulled.
 
@El'endiaStarman In the context of a single user's ballot, the unlisted ones are the ones the user didn't vote for at all.
 
@Dennis Rhymes!
 
@ChrisJester-Young I notice your CV profile says you dislike php and VB.... :P
 
They are considered below the ones the user did vote for, but equal to the other ones the user didn't vote for.
 
4:53 PM
I think those are the most hated programming langauges.
 
Digital Trauma goes from 82 to 103, Phi goes from 64 to 76, and Elendia from 31 to 36
 
Pro tip: pip > commenting out the dependency > shooting yourself in the foot > easy-install
 
@EasterlyIrk Don't most programmers?
 
But for some reason, Mego has a pretty constant preference vs all other voters
 
4:54 PM
easy-install's greatest use is installing pip.
Just like Internet Explorer's greatest use is installing Chrome or Firefox.
13
 
@ChrisJester-Young @Mast and @Mat'sMug and a couple other CR guys write software in VB, and like it.
 
Is there a way to take this data and make a political spectrum out of it?
 
Pro tip: easy_install == pip install.
 
Maybe a 2D spectrum.
 
@EasterlyIrk Good for them. :-)
 
4:55 PM
@El'endiaStarman s/Chrome or //
 
D:
@ChrisJester-Young as a room owner, can you add me as a room owner?
 
I like IE. There, I said it.
 
@EasterlyIrk I have the technical capacity to, but in practice I would defer that decision to the mods.
 
@TimmyD Everyone hates you now. :P
 
4:57 PM
@PhiNotPi make a graph where the weight of the connection is equal to the number of times the two candidates are listed together
 
@PhiNotPi You can download the ballot file from the election page. Voters can download OpenSTV (sadly, only for Windows and OS X). Else you can download Python, download the linked OpenSTV source distribution, python setup.py install, then run runElection.py with your ballot file.
 
@Dennis may I be a room owner for this room?
 
then group the nodes with the highest weight together
 
@EasterlyIrk "nope"---Dennis
 
though, I'm not sure how that last part works
 
4:57 PM
@zyabin101 That actually shows me the political spectrum?
 
@EasterlyIrk Me too.
 
@zyabin101 you ain't dennis!
 
@EasterlyIrk Why would he or any other mod make you room owner?
 
@PhiNotPi It shows the process of the election.
 
@Dennis Yay
 
4:58 PM
@El'endiaStarman Because they take pity on cats....
 
@PhiNotPi No, it won't.
 
But if you can read the ballot file format, you can do a political spectrum manually.
 
@EasterlyIrk Sadly, they don't take pity on bots with no coding knowledge WHATSOEVER.
 
@EasterlyIrk Why do you want to be a room owner?
3
 
If we're handing out room ownerships I'll take one.
 
4:59 PM
So will I.
 
@PhiNotPi do you think that would work?
 

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