The Nineteenth Byte

> useful applications other than for code golfing are very limited due to their limitations on overall speed, readability and function[citation needed]

Geobits

I just don't think adding for the sake of length is a great idea. It leads to really overblown fluff pages, and bloats the whole site.

Mars Ultor

1:09 PM

Okay

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

sequence identification! it's not really on OEIS: 0, 0, 1, 15, 276, 7140, 258840, 12698280, 812831040

Mars Ultor

So the question is: can we golf it down?

> An example of GolfScript code to print 1000 digits of Pi:

Geobits

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That looks very familiar, but I can't put my finger on why :/

Mars Ultor

^^ Not sure if that needs something line 'the following/below is' at the start

TimmyD

> It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove. -Antoine de Saint Exupéry

Mars Ultor

1:12 PM

@TimmyD i.e. when there is nothing more

Geobits

> Oh, bosh, as Mr. Ruskin says. Sculpture, per se, is the simplest thing in the world. All you have to do is to take a big chunk of marble and a hammer and chisel, make up your mind what you are about to create and chip off all the marble you don’t want. — Paris Gaulois

Mars Ultor

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ oeis.org/A180397

Example, second row

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Closed form?

(second challenge, co-de-go-lf)

Mars Ultor

T(n,m)=binomial(m!,n) <- idk which is the constant 1 - m is 1 or 2 or something

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ?

Kenny Lau

n=2.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:17 PM

code-golf with lotsa hyphens

Mars Ultor

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ?

Geobits

clog fled

go elf cod

good clef

TimmyD

good flec

Geobits

Gel C: Food?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

+/>:i.<:! N

Mars Ultor

1:19 PM

@Geobits My first thought: x86_64-go-cod-elf-gcc

Geobits

^^ that's not an anagram

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ pyth.herokuapp.com/?code=.c.!Q2&input=8&debug=0

TimmyD

C:\Food>gel

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

noice

TimmyD

What you run when you're making Jell-O

Mars Ultor

1:20 PM

moves abandoned Gel project to windows partition

zyabin101

Golfed Co.

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ actually.tryitonline.net/#code=Miwh4paI&input=OA

Geobits

L.C. goofed

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau what

what is that language

Geobits

I think it's Actually Actually.

TimmyD

1:21 PM

Doc of Leg

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

OH LOL I thought that was 3 bytes and thought the box at the end was a terminal ccursor o_o

that was weird

Kenny Lau

-1

Q: How many minimum days will he take to complete N units of work?

A person has to complete N units of work; the nature of work is the same. In order to get the hang of the work, he completes only one unit of work in the first day. He wishes to celebrate the completion of work, so he decides to complete one unit of work in the last day. Given that he is only...

Let's re-open this :)

Geobits

dolce fog

TimmyD

Sounds like a tasty dessert.

zyabin101

WordSmith.org's I, Rearrangement Servant found 19 anagrams for code golf. Quick, guess em' all!

Geobits

1:25 PM

That's boring. I'd rather find funny ones than try to guess a list.

Mars Ultor

All

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

internet anagram server

zyabin101

@MarsUltor X.X You spoiled the fun.

Lo, cog fed!

Doc El'Fog

Geobits

Go F le cod

zyabin101

Good Flec

Geobits

1:28 PM

-1 repeat :P

TimmyD

@Geobits Well then. That poor fish.

:D

Fleco God

bai

BAI

1:32 PM

God of Cel

Doge colf?

zyabin101

Doge floc

 /\_/\/\_/\/\_/\/\_/\/\_/\
 wow.)(. .)(. .)(. .)(. .)
 ( v )( v )( v )(such floc
  /\_/\/\_/\/\_/\/\_/\/\_/\
  (. .)(. .)(. .)(. .)(. .)
  ( v )( v much doge )( v )
 /\_/\/\_/\/\_/\/\_/\/\_/\
 (. .)(. .)(. .)(. .)(. .)
 ( v )( v )( v )( v )( v )
/\_/\so much_/\/\_/\/\_/\
(. .)(. .)(. .)(. .)(. .)
( v )( v )( v )( v )( v )

Mars Ultor

Oh, avocad is to juic as doge is to floc

zyabin101

Oh, let's anagram avocad juic.

I, Java Du Coc

Sp3000

@zyabin101 VTC duplicate

zyabin101

/o\

Codava Juic

Ava Doc Juic

Yes, these anagrams are not so cool as the Du Coc one.

TimmyD

1:50 PM

Und now ve vait.

zyabin101

@TimmyD Fur vat?

TimmyD

The bot to catch up.

Geobits

Ah, ze bot. Notorious slacker, zat.

zyabin101

Tri...

Du...

Won...

Challensh!

Geobits

san, ni, ichi....?

quartata

1:55 PM

vy are ve speaking en fake German

Mars Ultor

三，二，一。。。

@Geobits さん、に、いち。。。

Geobits

Yea... I'm lazy. Sue me :P

Mars Ultor

@Geobits ಠ_ಠ use an IME

Plus, you get easy-to-type faces as a bonus

Geobits

iie

TimmyD

@quartata Uh, yes.

zyabin101

1:56 PM

san, er, yi...

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

The Large Hash-ron Collider Related: Hash collision: "NO" means "YES" code-golf hashing string Meta: this is still a skeleton challenge to put my thoughts down and get some feedback. Since this is more of a "how to do" challenge, rather than an explicit input/output challenge, I think feedback...

TimmyD

'bout bloody time. Lazy bot, slacking on a Friday. :p

Most of the people viewing this question now are probably at work and "unwinding/on break" — David Grinberg 2 days ago

New Main Posts

2:17 PM

0

Q: Bogosort sorting Algorithm

Here goes the question... Recently louis has learned bogosort sorting algorithm. He thought that it is too ineffective. So he decided to improve it. As you may know this algorithm shuffles the sequence randomly until it is sorted. louis decided that we don't need to shuffle the whole sequence eve...

code-generation

zyabin101

\o/

The cv-pls userscript works!

Apparently, the winning criterion appeared. I lose. /o\

Sp3000

Does anyone get how to calculate the sample outputs? This looks identical to Gorosort to me, yet if it was Gorosort those wouldn't be the answers

Rainbolt

@KennyLau What is the point of having a close reason for "This challenge has no objective winning criteria" if you can just add one to the challenge? Don't you think it's kind of up to the author to decide that?

TimmyD

@KennyLau Assuming the challenge to be code golf and arbitrarily editing that in is, I think, poor form.

Rainbolt

I mean, say you choose one that he doesn't agree with, just to keep his question open. Then he gets answers, and then he comes back and can't change it.

Kenny Lau

2:25 PM

Sorry, edited out.

Rainbolt

Crisis averted. Now all is well with the Internet.

quartata

A Pyth program has been posted on CR. Is this the end of the world as we know it?

Kenny Lau

by me.

1

A: Diamondize a Matrix

Pyth, 41 17 bytes tm_<dx+dYk.T+LaYk Try it online! Inspired by @Doorknob's solution to another problem. How it works: tm_<dx+dYk.T+LaYk +L prepend to each subarray... aYk (Y += ''). Y is initialized to [], so this prepends [''] to the fir...

using this answer

ungolfed

Sp3000

@quartata Graduated? Tick. Calka posting golf answers? Tick. Yeah maybe.

TimmyD

@Rainbolt Well, that's that, then. Have a good weekend, everyone.

ಠ_ಠ @ the person who has the 8th star on that one line of the starboard ...

Rainbolt

2:31 PM

The starboard is bugging me. I'd prefer they all be 7 stars, or be completely messed up, but not in between.

TimmyD

Ninja'd

:p

Rainbolt

I think my thought was significantly different than yours though

TimmyD

No, no ... no. Maybe.

Rainbolt

Samurai'd

FryAmTheEggman

But there are seven seven star posts :o

Rainbolt

2:32 PM

(Samurai'd is when you reject a ninja'd)

Sp3000

Question got deleted, but apparently: codechef.com/FEB11/problems/BOGOSORT

TimmyD

I thought samurai'd was when you got double-ninja'd

Kenny Lau

@quartata Help review my code :)

Rainbolt

Check out this card, Triskaidekaphobia.

Look at how many logs are in the fireplace, and how many spoons are hanging on the wall

FryAmTheEggman

That card is amazing and I love it.

Rainbolt

2:36 PM

And the mana cost - 1 black 3 generic

FryAmTheEggman

Oh wow I had missed that, I was disappointed the mana cost didn't seem flavourful before, that's really cool!

@KennyLau FYI you can add line breaks to your Pyth program by doing <space>"<newline>" that could improve readability. e.g. pyth.herokuapp.com/…

Kenny Lau

@FryAmTheEggman Help review my code :)

Pyth

For discussion of the language and golfing in it

Why is this room so unactive :(

join join join!!

FryAmTheEggman

That would require me to sign up on code review, which is something I cannot do >:P

Kenny Lau

@FryAmTheEggman :p

Geobits

@Rainbolt I opened one of those last night. Very quirky.

Nathan Merrill

3:02 PM

interviewing with google in an hour :)

Rainbolt

Google was my dream job in college

Nathan Merrill

and then?

Rainbolt

Less so now that I have an awesome job, but it would still be cool

Kenny Lau

Are hard-coded variable inputs acceptable by default?

Geobits

@NathanMerrill Good luck :)

Rainbolt

3:04 PM

Yea, good luck. Is it considered ninja'd to be the second person to wish you luck?

Nathan Merrill

@Rainbolt I'm happy with my current job (but I wouldn't say its awesome)

but thanks

its 5 45 minute interviews

Geobits

dayum

Nathan Merrill

so, its going to be a long day

but even if I don't make it, I still got a free flight, hotel stay, and food

and an office tour

Padra

@MartinBüttner yeah, sorry.

>.<

Martin Büttner

@NathanMerrill best of luck then :)

Easterly Irk

3:11 PM

@NathanMerrill nice!

Kenny Lau

3:23 PM

Pyth

For discussion of the language and golfing in it

advertisement :D

TimmyD

What's the procedure to move from discussion to support? Specifically, I'm looking to go through the process to expand and better categorize our Community FAQ in preparation for it being Featured.

Rainbolt

3:39 PM

That sounds like a feature request to me

Discussion: Should this be done?
Feature request: This should be done.
Support: I need help with something that has already been done.

If you already know what you want it to look like. Otherwise, I'd keep it as a discussion and gather feedback on what it should look like.

(I have a feeling that I completely misunderstood your question)

TimmyD

Well, for example, our truthy/falsey question is about as consensus as you can get (+60/-3), but is still listed "Discussion."

Maltysen

why is pyth on code review?

FryAmTheEggman

The world is ending tomorrow, didn't you get the memo?

Geobits

@Maltysen That's the second time I've seen someone say something like that... where is pyth on code review?

FryAmTheEggman

2

Q: Diamondize a matrix

The task is to output a representation of the matrix where the top left element is on top, the anti-diagonal is the central row and the bottom right element is at the bottom. For example, consider the following matrix: 1 2 3 4 5 6 The diamond version of this matrix is: 1 3 2 5 4 6 wh...

pyth

Rainbolt

3:45 PM

@TimmyD We decided what truthy or falsy are, and that's all that was needed from that question. The only time you need to move on to a feature request is when there is some action required beyond simply reaching agreement.

Geobits

Oooh, I thought you meant the pyth chatroom was somehow counted as a CR one (both times it came up right after a link to the room).

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@FryAmTheEggman wat

FryAmTheEggman

Idk ask kenny :P

Maltysen

> I am especially interested in advice on the readability of my code.

-_-

feersum

code-review-trolling

Geobits

3:48 PM

Is whitespace significant in pyth? If not, "readability" would be helped just by line breaking and indenting.

Maltysen

@Geobits it is, but not usually

FryAmTheEggman

It kind of does, I commented in here about it though

Geobits

I see.

FryAmTheEggman

@Geobits I suggested adding stuff like pyth.herokuapp.com/…

Maltysen

oh that's smart

Kenny Lau

3:50 PM

@FryAmTheEggman I think this is better

TimmyD

@Rainbolt Erm, that's not what the Community FAQ says ... :-/

FryAmTheEggman

@KennyLau Yeah that probably is better

TimmyD

18

Q: Community FAQ for Programming Puzzles & Code Golf

Community FAQ For the Programming Puzzles & Code Golf site For official guidance from Stack Exchange, visit the Help Center. Posting Challenges/Solutions How can I incorporate good-looking mathematical exposition into my question/answer? Posting Challenges What details should always be ...

support faq

Maltysen

@FryAmTheEggman we could just make double spaces or tabs be comments

if we're getting serious about making Pyth usable for real life ;P

FryAmTheEggman

Well it's already usable for real life, it's just showing it to other people where it struggles :P

Maltysen

3:54 PM

yeah, in all seriousness, I actually do use it a lot outside of PPCG.

fast to type :P

Optimizer

TimmyD

Neat

Optimizer

This one's better:

[NSFW] i0.wp.com/s.mlv-cdn.com/img/…

Maltysen

XD

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Good thing my friends looked at my screen before you did that.

>_>

Maltysen

4:01 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ did they notice king kong?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I was too busy covering the image.

Optimizer

with a shirt?

TimmyD

@ whoever keeps creating inconsistencies in the star board -- "Some men just want to watch the world burn." ;-)

6

hah

New Main Posts

0

Q: Reverse Greek Conversion Golf

Introduction You must create a function to convert Greek numerals into Arabic numerals. The input will be a Greek numeral less than 1000 and more than 0. This is the reverse of my previous challenge. Algorithm Split input into letters (e.g. ΡΚΓ -> Ρ, Κ, Γ) Take each letter, and change to char...

code-golf number natural-language conversion

Optimizer

2 more..

and it will be mod abuse!!!11!!!eleven!!!

zyabin101

4:04 PM

waffles

TimmyD

Oh, man, I could go for some waffles.

Rainbolt

@TimmyD You're referring to "Tag as faq-proposed and support. When a post seems to hit a mature state, it will have faq added by a moderator." I hadn't read that until just now, and I'm not sure it's the best tagging system we could be using.

zyabin101

Sorry, whoever of the mods came. Just testing.

TimmyD

@Rainbolt Yeah, it seems pretty klunky to me, too. It seems that graduation has increased our new-user activity, and I would bet that finalizing site design and adjusting reputation and all the rest of the "finish graduation" stuff would only increase it more, so I'd like to try and get ahead of the influx if possible.

Rainbolt

Actually I just changed my mind. It makes sense to me now. The FAQ is for people who need help using the site, and so every question linked by it will probably be about help using the site.

Tag it discussion, support, and faq-proposed. Problem solved lol

Geobits

4:08 PM

Adding [faq-proposed] makes sense (to put mod eyeballs on it if nothing else). I'm not sure why it needs to be changed from [discussion] to [support] unless the decision is then made to actually [faq] it.

Rainbolt

I want to discuss how to use the site. It deserves to have both tags on it.

Geobits

TIL [faq] is a magic link :/

TimmyD

But I'm not sure that mod eyeballs are actually seeing it? -- the Community FAQ post was last updated a long time ago.

Geobits

I think the point is that retagging it as [faq-proposed] is intended to do that (not just mods, but in general), so a discussion can start about whether it should go into the faq.

intended

Pestering people about it might work better in practice ;)

TimmyD

Ah, so I'm asking the wrong question. The question isn't one of mechanics (how does this get tagged such-and-such) but about process (what's our method of building a FAQ)

zyabin101

4:12 PM

@Geobits Oh, I see.

Rainbolt

I still don't see lol (still trying to find the magic link)

Geobits

At least the starboard is all multiples of 3 now. Well, not once I say this, I'm sure, but for now...

Optimizer

5 more

zyabin101

@Geobits Not this time.

Geobits

@Geobits You must be some kind of psychic.

Optimizer

4:14 PM

@Geobits not really. too obvious

Geobits

@Rainbolt Just type [faq] in a chat message and it converts it to a link like this: faq

Optimizer

dayum

Geobits

Of course, it goes to the tour page for some reason, but...

zyabin101

I wish [tour] was going to the tour page.

Rainbolt

11

A: Complete list of help center magic links

It would appear that nicael is correct, that's the complete list. Here's the most complete list of magic links I can find (both help center and other), from Laura's answer and the balpha answer nicael linked to: [help] -> /help (the help center landing page for whatever site you're on) [help/on...

zyabin101

4:15 PM

But you have [faq], so what do you expect?

Geobits

We need a [sandbox] magic link so I can stop using ppcg-sandbox.noip.me

Rainbolt

What the FAQ I've been rickrolled

I lost the game too. Thanks for that

Geobits

No problem. I lost too :D

TimmyD

@Geobits sandbox.ppcg.lol

Rainbolt

And yes, I spoiled your rickroll for everyone else just so that I could make a not so funny pun out of the word FAQ.

Geobits

4:18 PM

I always forget about that one, but it's still not as useful as a magic link.

@Rainbolt I noticed :/

All good though. I usually opt for the bad pun as well.

TimmyD

On a scale from pun to bad ...

Rainbolt

I score a schfifty five

TimmyD

I score a shifty eyes

zyabin101

I score a >_>

Geobits

I think it's about to seriously storm here. The sky got really dark really quick and the wind picked up.

Optimizer

4:22 PM

same here

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

0

Q: Summative Pattern

While playing around with J (link), I found that you can create a sequence of shape N0 N1 ... NK with i. taking a list as its parameters. Since i. creates a range 0 .. RHS and >: increments each value in a range, i. >: i. RHS creates a non-empty range. We can use , to flatten it and +/ to summat...

j

Optimizer

Ye
s

Geobits

@QPaysTaxes The option is nice, but I don't often use them.

zyabin101

like:

ROASTE
D

Kenny Lau

code-review-trolling

Optimizer

4:23 PM

huh?

TimmyD

PowerShell supports them, but of course they have to be special and use ` as the escape character, not \

So it's `n and not \n

Finally! I found it.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ golfing questions are explicitly off-topic.

zyabin101

And wai did i say roaste / d ;_;

Geobits

@QPaysTaxes You mean should strings allow \n or just line continuation?

I'd say yes to allowing both, personally.

[help] Programming Puzzles & Code Golf Meta Programming Puzzles & Code Golf [tour]

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

4:26 PM

@KennyLau It's not golfing.

I'm asking for a more concise way to write it.

Geobits

Hmm. That list of magic links really sucks for chat :/

mbomb007

78

Q: Game of Life: Kill the Sun

Below is an initial state for Conway's Game of Life with a single pulsar. Living cells are white. The area marked with red is your base. You are free to modify any of the red cells, but only those, and only in the initial generation. You are not allowed to do anything once the simulation start...

computer-puzzle cellular-automata

Geobits

Ok, that's what I thought when I said this:

5 mins ago, by Geobits

@QPaysTaxes The option is nice, but I don't often use them.

I don't see a great reason not to allow it, at any rate.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Why have a program error on eol met whilst scanning for string without meeting a line continuation character?

It seems pointless.

Geobits

But it does end ;)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

4:30 PM

No, not you, regular languages.

Like, why should

"thing
stuff"

error in most languages?

Geobits

I think the main reason line continuation chars are used is to minimize accidental mistakes, like simply leaving off the ending quote.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

But then an error would be thrown on EOF met when scanning for string end.

In Geobit's scenario.

Heredocs are a pain to parse.

iirc

Geobits

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Right, if there is no other string further down. If there is, then the parser could get mucked and throw errors all over the place.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Geobits Ahhh.

@QPaysTaxes Will it use multiple characters for begin/end that are the same as a "?

Geobits

Just use ----v for line continuation :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

4:34 PM

oh, phew

Geobits

@QPaysTaxes That makes too much sense. Stop being rational.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Because "this would look ``
really weird"

Geobits

@QPaysTaxes I feel the need to remind you I golf mainly in Java ;)

FryAmTheEggman

s/club/flag/

Maltysen

wow the starboard really got screwed up

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

4:37 PM

print ---v
"Output" <

Maltysen

there: multiples of 5 all around

FryAmTheEggman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ wouldn't that print "tuptuO"? :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@FryAmTheEggman I only specify the syntax. I'll leave it to Texas to interpret it.

BAI TEXAS

o_o

zyabin101

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ "I'm Taxes!" - Taxes

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

TexasPaysTaxes

quartata

4:42 PM

Why does everything on the starboard have exactly 10 stars?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

OCD?

zyabin101

Help me test out my Paper Organizer, more exactly, the way of folding the organizer.

quartata

Please unstar Sp's message

Rainbolt

@quartata That is because every comment in this room is equally interesting (ten stars) or not interesting (zero stars).

zyabin101

It's weird to flip the sheet before folding.

Åna

4:50 PM

@AlexA. Nope, still reviewing away ;P

zyabin101

Apparently a *.doc file is not available for download in Google Drive. Fixed now.

Åna

Clean code is my thing, code golf is kinda straight against that.

FryAmTheEggman

You just need to overload your definition of clean ;)

El'endia Starman

Holy moly, how did this (almost) everything-has-10-stars trend start?!

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Gracias! :)

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman I think it started when I failed a turing test last night.

That's where the three 'yes' posts came from :/

Pyth

Pyth

Transcript for