The Nineteenth Byte - 2016-01-12 (page 6 of 10)

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7:01 PM

I didn't even think it was possible, he solves it in 53 bytes...

popularity-contest is a really important but troublesome tag. The underlying issue is that people are encouraged to vote in whatever way they want on SE

We can't change that

@quartata I've considered polling meta to evaluate whether we even want that tag but I know that suggesting it be off topic would be downvoted into oblivion.

I'm not certain there is a good solution, which makes me sad

Yeah.

@dieter It is relevant. We don't allow any challenges that don't have an objective winning criteria, period. It wouldn't make any sense for a CONTEST. — quartata 8 mins ago

Quick, everyone upvote this comment

But popularity-contest?

7:05 PM

@AlexA. That isn't the issue IMHO. Votes are the objective winning criterion of a popcon, but even a popcon should have an objective validity criterion.

Right

I assume that's what squartato was getting at.

We've been starting to see a lot more controversial popcons which worries me

@AlexA. yeah that's what i meant

grace time is up for the comment though

@Dennis What stops anyone from using the output must be an image as objective validity criterion?

@quartata If you want I can edit it, just tell me what you want it to say.

@flawr If that's the criteria then it is too broad

See: Apple Lisa

7:07 PM

^

We'd need to have a meta criterion for knowing whether a given validity criterion is in fact objective.

And that's where my question comes in:

4

Q: What makes a popularity contest objective?

In light of the controversy sparked by this question, I think we need to create a general "rule of thumb" policy on how objective a popularity-contest needs to be in order to be on-topic. The main issue, as I see it, is that people are not in agreement over whether an objective specification sh...

discussion policy popularity-contest

@flawr That's perfectly objective, but way too broad.

code review is featured in the SO blog! :(

Yeah, because they graduated in 2015. :/

7:10 PM

:/

eagerly awaits for 2020 year in review blog

surely we will graduate by then..

right?

At least we might get an honorable mention for having been in beta for 9 years.

i missed the deleted post

We might want to feature my popcon question. It's actually a really critical question.

I'm surprised it hasn't been answered before.

We'll need a lot of different eyeballs to reach a community consensus.

@Optimizer He just said, "."

ok

.

or

7:13 PM

@quartata We're a little short on featured slots right now.

"."

@Dennis what are you saying? I see at least 6 slots on my low res box..

@Dennis Oh right.

We've got the Best of PPCG and the meta sidebar change

@Optimizer It's 5, and 3 of them aren't from PPCG. Not even the hot meta questions are visible.

@Dennis oh. featured question.. not pinned chat message. silly me

El'endia Starman

@trichoplax Haven't kept reading the transcript to see if your problem went away, but it's working for me. So...1) refresh, and 2) did you check the Random/stochastic checkbox first?

@orlp Oh, that's so cool. :D

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

7:19 PM

I don't think this is valid:

0

A: Choose The Powerball Numbers!

Intel x86 Machine code, 85 bytes ¿I ±‰ø1Ò»E ÷óB‰Ðè+ ‰þÑç÷ƒÇþÉ„Éuâ‰ø1Ò» ÷óB‰Ðè 0äÍ¸ Í±ëÆÔ 00†Äˆã´ÍˆØÍ° ÍÃ Well it does sometimes print the same numbers if so, just try again by pressing a key. Compile with: nasm file.asm -o file.bin Make sure to align it to a floppy size (add zeros ...

Am I right?

El'endia Starman

> Well it does sometimes print the same numbers if so, just try again by pressing a key.

> taking no input but outputting 5 distinct random numbers from 1 to 69 inclusive

@quartata Lol. I needed that

El'endia Starman

No, I don't think it's valid.

Welcome to Programming Puzzles & Code Golf! Seeing machine code is always impressive, but if it prints repeated numbers on occasions, I'm afraid your submission is invalid. — Dennis ♦ 23 secs ago

@Rainbolt This isn't your average lazy apple popcon submission. This is the very pinnacle of apple art.

It's beautiful 10/10

New Sandboxed Posts

7:22 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Something something squares something something (Title TBD) I was intrigued by the design of this graphic from the New York Times, in which each US state is represented by a square in a grid. I wondered whether they placed the squares by hand or actually found an optimal placement of squares (u...

El'endia Starman

A random upvote on my Calculate Phi (Not Pi) question means that I now have three questions of scores 48, 49, 50. :P

@quartata I present to you my ¢2: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/8086/20469

I saw

iz gud

<3

@quartata "Lazy apple" should enter the PPCG lexicon.

7:27 PM

Thanks for posting that meta question, by the way. I think this will be helpful for explaining to new users who want to post popcons why they probably shouldn't. :P

Huh, that's strange.

I thought answers only grayed out if they had -8 on site metas

But my answer has -5 and is grayed out.

No, -3, just like everywhere else on the site.

7

A: Shouldn't downvoted answers on meta be non-transparent instead of semi-transparent?

I like seeing downvoted answers all pale and sickly-looking. But, y'all make a good argument for doing this and since it's obviously a popular idea I've lowered the threshold to -8 for consistency with the score at which we drop questions from the homepage. Ditto for the handful of other meta...

> I like seeing downvoted answers all pale and sickly-looking.

haha

:(

7:31 PM

Dammit, this got reopened. (╯ಠ_ಠ）╯︵ ┻━┻

Sigh.

I think that question should stay closed/locked until the meta discussion reaches a consensus.

Well, you can vote to close again.

Nah can't

have to wait 2 hours

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Dennis That's what I thought.

@quartata Let us make some shitty disappointing answers in the mean time.

7:37 PM

The main thing I'm worried about is that this might turn into an close/reopen war. We need a neutral party (ideally Martin) to completely lock it until consensus is reached.

Wikipedia does something similar with ArbCom. They can interaction-ban users/articles until consensus is reached.

Also I'm noticing sudden spikes in upvotes on that question.

I find this behavior.. strange.

It just got 3 in 2 minutes.

@flawr Nah, I don't feel like losing all my rep.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata Lock what?

14

Q: Paint the Mona Lisa in 1 KiB of code

Here is a picture of da Vinci's Mona Lisa. Click here for a larger version. Your task is to reproduce the Mona Lisa in 1024 bytes or less. You will write a program that takes no input and loads no files, and outputs an image file. The rendering section of your program will be no larger than 10...

popularity-contest graphical-output

This got re-opened.

lock the taskbar

Despite being (kinda) the center of this:

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. o-o

7:44 PM

7

Q: What makes a popularity contest objective?

In light of the controversy sparked by this question, I think we need to create a general "rule of thumb" policy on how objective a popularity-contest needs to be in order to be on-topic. The main issue, as I see it, is that people are not in agreement over whether an objective specification sh...

discussion policy popularity-contest

I'm actually really worried about this.

I don't like how this is being handled so far. Users are blindly casting votes without saying why.

Voting is their prerogative, but I feel like they should vote more carefully over something that is a major issue.

That thing got re-opened really fast.

You don't think that the people who reopened have been vocal in this chat room? Really?

@Rainbolt This was before it was closed.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata Those rebels :P

And before the meta post.

You are talking about up and downvotes then?

7:45 PM

All votes.

But yes.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I just vtc'd. I don't need any further convincing.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ See, I don't like that either.

I think we should just leave the thing alone for now.

@quartata Do you usually leave a comment with your upvotes?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

It is opinion based.

^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

7:46 PM

That's objective.

@Rainbolt I do on highly controversial subjects.

I generally only comment when I downvote, provided that someone else hasn't already said what I want to say.

I almost never comment when I upvote, unless the challenge truly deserves some out of the ordinary praise

FWIW, I've not voted one way or the other on this, aside from upvoting the meta-question to draw attention to it.

Until we reach meta consensus, nothing will be gained by closing/reopening other than provoking more fights.

Generally what do you think happens if there is no objective validity criterion?

Bad answers will not get any upvotes anyway, will they?

7:47 PM

@flawr They will if people use them as a platform to fight over this question.

> ha ha this apple shows why this question is completely wrong so I'm going to upvote it hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I'm also thinking this is getting a little bit too toxic for the Nineteenth Byte, so I'm going to pull a Christianity SE and make a new chat room.

So if people disagree with you, they suddenly become unreasonable voters (hurrrrr)?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ಠ_ಠ ^^

@Rainbolt Actually I just portrayed the people I agree with.

You get my point, at any rate.

I don't think anyone actually thinks like that

But I'm sure people would upvote an apple for that reason

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

.... goes to hide in the corner again

3

I don't either. I trust that people on the site are capable of seeing an apple for what it really is

tasty

7:51 PM

I do not trust people on the site that are capable of denying their pizzas pineapple hats.

Guidelines for posting and closing po…

A debate room for this meta post: meta.codegolf.stackexchange....

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

My pizza's never been offered the chance @flawr

I'd move a bunch of this cruft but I can't.

@quartata Why is this something that should be debated in chat rather than discussed on meta?

@AlexA. Because people seem to want to debate it here.

7:52 PM

Hey people who want to debate it here: Discuss on meta.

I don't necessarily agree with it being debated in chat but I do think it should be kept out of the Nineteenth Byte for sure.

Does the Nineteenth Byte have an objective on-topic or off-topic criterion?

@AlexA. You do realize that after 10 or so messages, a little box pops up saying "Hey, you should take this discussion to a room!" Or that's how it used to work when I argued with people in comments.

^

> Manzana Lisa

7:53 PM

I'm kinda preempting that.

You should comment on the meta post with your room

@Rainbolt That's why if you disagree you should post a separate meta answer so that people can vote accordingly

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@flawr Off-topic is on-topic, and vice-versa.

Hyphens-are-cool.

tags-are-way-cooler

meta-tags-lack-objectivity

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

haha

> meta-tags

7:54 PM

> meat-tax

@AlexA. I'm just explaining what happens when a controversial comment chain gets too long.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata Okay

I currently have about 200 odd pounds of Aluminum in Fallout.

user image

ಠ_ಠ

3

@Rainbolt I know. I'm just saying that if important points of discussion are to be made, they should be on meta so that people can vote accordingly and we can reach a consensus on the topic.

Hey, I don't have access to the Trashcan.

I've waited over a month for that...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

7:56 PM

@FlagAsSpam Story of my life.

So that's just the next best thing.

@FlagAsSpam My girlfriend keeps a bunch of cash in a bathtub in Fallout for no reason other than it's amusing.

@AlexA. That sounds like a pretty good idea, actually. Ground items don't despawn quick, and you can accidentally throw cash into the Junk slot in Workshops.

Fallout is a game, I suppose?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

yes

7:58 PM

^

@flawr fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Fallout_4

@flawr some stupid game everybody is crazy about...

Hello BTW!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

If done correctly, pop-cons are some of the best challenges out there.

@TanMath o-o Careful, son.

Do not call stupid games stupid!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

7:59 PM

@TanMath allo

@TanMath reloads shotgun

reloads O.o

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ @Tan shot first!

get it??

@TanMath @Lincoln shot first.

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