English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

cornbread ninja

19:00

@Mitch wood.

tchrist

deosculates

Cerberus

@MετάEd Yeah, I used to too. But those are many more keypresses, require holding down modifiers, are far to the right, and, most importantly, hard to remember. I knew the ones I most frequently used, like é, è, ï, ü, ê. But a rare one? I would have to look it up. In my system, I don't have to: ū is u-=-, ŏ is o\/, etc.

Mitch

@MετάEd __ “ __ holy crap that worked. But how do you remember what all the numbers mean?

tchrist

Well, he is nice about it.

0

Q: When to use "in", "on", "at"

Question (and I think this has not been posted here:) How should I determine when to use in, on, at and any other related prepositions you can think, such as into, even within. I was fascinated that a stackexchange existed for the subject of English, so I immediately started looking for answe...

prepositions

Cerberus

@MετάEd Hmm what happened? Why did it not think like you?

Mitch

19:01

@tchrist Put down your umbrella then.

cornbread ninja

@tchrist whom?

Mitch

@cornbreadninja I read that as a nonrhotic 'word' meaning that you were showing assent. Reading again, I've revised that interpretation.

cornbread ninja

@Mitch word.

KitFox

@Mitch How do you remember the capitals of all fifty states? You just do.

grins

MετάEd

@Cerberus I don't remember.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:04

@Mitch languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1548

MετάEd

@Cerberus I just got frustrated and stopped.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja in re "o domine: exaudi orationem meam: miserere nobis." = Oh Lord ... (followed with a Python skit).... make us miserable.

MετάEd

@Mitch I remember the ones I use frequently.

Cerberus

@MετάEd Hmm if you ever want to try again, this is the template for single letters:

Mitch

@KitFox or rather, not.

Cerberus

19:05

:*?:a//::á

A// will be replaced with á.

MετάEd

@Mitch Alt 0145 Alt 0146 Alt 0147 Alt 0148 Alt 0133 Alt 0150 Alt 0151 Alt 0149 Alt 0176.

Cerberus

You need the latest Autohotkey_L with unicode support.

MετάEd

@Cerberus I had it.

Cerberus

And the script file needs to be formatted as Unicode.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus heheh "with unicode support"

Cerberus

19:06

That's all you need.

MετάEd

@Cerberus This is something I tried the last time you tried to sell AHK on me.

Cerberus

Really??

MετάEd

Yes.

Cerberus

And it didn't work??

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But..but but...

Cerberus

19:07

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm not sure, there used to be an old version without.

@MετάEd So what happened? Or is this best saved for some other time?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The problem with using AHK is that you train yourself to become dependant on something that isn't available on every computer. Better to learn the normal input methods which work everywhere, or at least, reasonably everywhere on that species of machine.

Mitch

Well, the nespaper puvblishers and book publishers set their type -somehow- but just maybe not by a convenient desktop machine

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You can carry AHK portable around with you on a memory stick. Or put a compiled version (single .exe file) in your Gmail.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch The Chinese used movable type just like other type-setters. But a "typewriter" can't really be made for Chinese.

Cerberus

Or use some unicode character picker online if you have to.

cornbread ninja

19:09

@Mitch my friends all drive Porsches / I must make a-mends

Cerberus

Bobby!

I always wondered about her a-mends.

Metri causa?

cornbread ninja

@Cerberus ha!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus That's like saying "I can take my catheter with me! I just need to unplug it from the toilet and put it into a little sac, which I must periodically empty"

Mitch

@cornbreadninja Worked hard all my lifetime

cornbread ninja

@Mitch :D

Cerberus

19:10

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No need to periodically empty your Gmail.

MετάEd

@Cerberus I don't remember exactly. I can tell you I wanted to enter special codes as n-graphs such as '6 and '9 for inverted commas. I expect I would need a prefix or postfix operator, and ideally it would be a prefix Ctrl+K to be compatible with Vim.

So I should be able to press Ctrl+K, ', 9 and get an apostrophe.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Just think how productive you'd be if you didn't have to get up and pee! All you need is a catheter!

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's a striking image. I'm going to strike myself in the head until I don't have that image anymore.

Cerberus

@MετάEd Ah OK. That could be set up. But wouldn't it be easier to use a simple hotstring like ''9 and ''6? Or ''''9? I find that typing the same key twice or thrice or fource is quicker than typing several different keys, and there is no chance of typing it by accident. I use the suffix qq for many text expansions, like oedqq.

MετάEd

@Cerberus Here is how far I got: the top of my macro file:

; RFC 1345 Character Mnemonics & Character Sets
; Edward McGuire
; 20 August 2012
; ———
; This document is intended to be installed in the file AutoHotkey.ahk in the My Documents folder. When installed and active, inserting any RFC 1345 character mnemonic followed by ^K (Ctrl+K) will cause the associated character to be inserted.
; ———
; Define the hotstring end character to be Horizontal Tab (HT). On most keyboards this is entered by pressing Tab, ^I (Ctrl+I).
#Hotstring EndChars ``
; ———
; Define the RFC 1345 character mnemonics.

Cerberus

19:14

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You don't have any real argument, so you just come up with spurious analogies...I see!

MετάEd

@Cerberus I imagine various things would work. Vim compatibility would just be easier.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, actually, I have lots of arguments against using third-party software as a piece of critical computer infrastructure. If you never have to use another machine, some of them might not matter to you. carrying software around for use on random computers is not something I consider a good idea though.

David Wallace

@MετάEd Will you give me one too?

Carlo_R.

Hello @Reg; sorry, I'm sure to have lost discussions today and, just now, I seen Matt's meta question. But I have questions to you; just to you because you proposed ELL: is it possible that Jeff Atwood reopen, maybe using his influence, the ELL proposal?

MετάEd

@DavidWallace Well, if Cerb would get this danged script working, I would have one to give you.

Em dash would be Ctrl+K - M for example

I just can't seem to think like an AHK user.

Carlo_R.

19:19

Hello everyone and hello @David.

David Wallace

Hi Carlo.

RegDwighт

@Carlo_R. I am not Jeff, but no.

Carlo_R.

@David Italian newspaper are talking about a partnership Italy-NZ in the America's Cup.

David Wallace

@MετάEd Is that your real name?

Carlo_R.

@Reg Thx

David Wallace

19:21

Eddie McGuire

Edward Joseph "Eddie" McGuire AM (born 29 October 1964) is an Australian television presenter and businessman known for his long association with Australian rules football and the Channel 9 television network. McGuire is the current president of the Collingwood Football Club and Melbourne Stars Twenty20 cricket franchise, and the current host of Channel Nine program Millionaire Hot Seat and Million Dollar Money Drop Australia. He is also the host of Triple M Melbourne's breakfast show The Hot Breakfast with Mick Molloy and Luke Darcy, as well as being an Australian rules football comme...

RegDwighт

I'm off to resume watching King Kong.

David Wallace

This is the man who can't say "millionaire".

RegDwighт

That's right, two days already.

BBL

KitFox

@RegDwighт You are still watching that?

Carlo_R.

Do you have any information on this (David).

KitFox

19:22

@RegDwighт Do you watch it once in every language you know or something?

RegDwighт

@KitFox I am still looking for excuses to not to. Though actually, scrap that. At this point I'm looking for excuses to.

It's boring, brutal, and inhumane.

Carlo_R.

It seems that we have armed a ship with NZ (David)

Cerberus

@MετάEd Okay, I don't understand exactly what you wanted it to do here, but I think modified keys (like ctrl-k) are not supported inside hotstrings, nor as ending characters. I could build a script around that though.

simchona

@Carlo_R. Why don't you just ping him instead of hoping he'll read his name in parentheses?

Cerberus

@MετάEd On the other hand, if you input characters through Autohotkey, they will work in Vim too.

RegDwighт

19:24

@KitFox no. Every time it's on I watch like five minutes here and there. This is the first time I'm trying to watch the entire thing start to finish.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Why critical?

MετάEd

@Cerberus I want a prefix escape. If I can't have a control code as a prefix escape I suppose that means I have to give up one of my keys, such as `.

David Wallace

@Carlo_R. Non so niente.

MετάEd

What about the Break key? Can I use that?

RegDwighт

And by "watching" I mean "playing LEGO while listening to the dialogue" which frankly, is not something that works in a movie that is about CGI and nothing else.

Lators.

Mitch

19:25

@simchona also, he could just google for it.

Cerberus

@MετάEd A prefix escape means a character you type first, and then whatever follows won't be expanded, until the next space or something?

Carlo_R.

@David great, I did not have doubts on this.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus well, because you use it as a replacement for "proper" typing. So whenever you're at a different computer you can no longer type properly.

MετάEd

@Cerberus It should expand as soon as you complete the sequence. Suppose my prefix escape is K (capital k). Then if I press K"6 I should get an open double-quote.

Cerberus

The backtick is used in hotstrings to escape the character for the Autohotkey compiler, not for you as a user.

Mitch

19:26

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Wait..is that what you do with a catheter? Why don't you just carry a bag around?

Carlo_R.

@Mitch There is no GR in chat.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's like if your computer at home has Dvorak and you can't touch-type on qwerty.

Mitch

@Carlo_R. :)

MετάEd

@Cerberus that's not why I suggested it. It's because I don't use it a lot.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Then you'd have to get up and empty the bag.

Cerberus

19:27

@MετάEd Oh OK.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 not for a while.

just like... (working out the analogy).... hm need a few more dots...

Cerberus

@MετάEd So you just mean you want every hotstring to start with the same hotkey or key or other combo?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch We are trying to squeeze maximum efficiency here. There's no time for occasionally getting up to empty the bag. We've got accented characters to type!

If we can't type those accented characters fast enough, tchrist will beat us! And won't that be awkward.

Mitch

also, you distracted me by saying 'squeeze'

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

well exsqueeze me.

KitFox

19:30

@Mr.Shiny Do you need some tea? I hear it is very soothing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I could use some.

Mitch

@KitFox off for tea

KitFox

gives @Mr.Shiny tea

MετάEd

@Cerberus Right.

KitFox

There, now that's better, isn't it?

Carlo_R.

19:32

Yes, it is kit

simchona

@Carlo_R. Are you @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 now?

Carlo_R.

@sim no, I am I

simchona

@Carlo_R. You're not even an object? Wow.

Carlo_R.

or it should be I am me

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@simchona He'd have to be Mr. Shiny and Newer.

KitFox

19:34

Would you care for some tea, too @Carlo?

Carlo_R.

:) kit

Kit, you are wonderful

or it should be I am me

KitFox

There's a question for that on the site. Let me find it.

12

Q: When is it correct to use "yourself" and "myself" (versus "you" and "me")?

I'm confused by why people use the following: It's up to yourself. Rather than: It's up to you. Another example of this would be: Please feel free to contact ourselves if you have any problems. Rather than: Please feel free to contact us if you have any problems. Are both ...

pronouns british-english

Well, the one I was thinking of points to this one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It should be I am me. "I" is the subject, "me" is the object.

cornbread ninja

I need a mathy person.

@JasperLoy

KitFox

Oh I am mathy!

cornbread ninja

19:36

!!

KitFox

No, wait. I'm not anymore.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

how mathy?

cornbread ninja

cries

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 not terribly.

I have a Korn shell script that has a long calculation in it

Carlo_R.

@Mr.Shin and Kit :) thank you so mutc

cornbread ninja

I want to get the parentheses right.

alternately, I would like someone to help me decide whether it is evaluating correctly as is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:37

hm, maybe post it in the I can haz jQuery room

cornbread ninja

k

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

that's ELU's off-topic programming room

David Wallace

Ask it here. You're sure to get a useful opinion.

KitFox

The jQuery room is open to all.

I can haz jQuery?

Programming chat

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace We wouldn't want to derail the conversation here, would we? :)

David Wallace

19:42

Why would that be a derailment?

Cerberus

^k::
Input, OutputVar1, V, , "6 I
If ( Outputvar1 = """6 I" )
Send {backspace 4}“
Return

This does what you want.

MετάEd

@Cerberus So I would need, let's see,

Cerberus

I could write it as a function, so that you can add new combos as single lines.

@MετάEd You press control-k, the you type: "6 I

That is shift-I.

MετάEd

I would need about 1900 functions.

Cerberus

Nope.

MετάEd

19:44

If they can be composed on one line I can easily compose them with a macro.

Wait, what's the shift I for?

Cerberus

I thought you wanted shift-I?

@MετάEd So which combos do you need, all together?

I could turn it into a Function, so that you can add new ones more easily.

MετάEd

@Cerberus The 2-graph for the open double quote is "6. So I want to press my prefix escape key followed by "6. And ideally my prefix escape is Ctrl+K.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

Then just remove the space and the I from both lines.

MετάEd

Many of the codes will be 2-graphs, but some are 1-graphs, some are 3-graphs.

There might even be a 4-graph or two, I don't remember.

But the point is that they are variable length.

Cerberus

That shouldn't be a problem.

The Input command checks for a list of strings that terminate the input.

MετάEd

19:48

What's the V argument?

Cerberus

Visible.

You see what you type.

MετάEd

Ah. And the backspace would be a backspace 3?

Cerberus

I needed the backspace to counter that, but I find it easier if I see what I type.

Yes, {backspace 2}.

MετάEd

Now ... what part of the code inserts the “ character replacement?

Cerberus

It's right after the backspace.

MετάEd

19:50

Oh. Got it.

Damned font.

Cerberus

Heh.

So I could turn this into a function. Then all you need is a list of input strings and a list of conversion pairs, if all goes well.

MετάEd

So there would be one ^k block, but within it I would have about 1900 If/Send combinations. Possibly simplified using a utility subroutine.

Cerberus

Yes.

I'm not sure how well it will perform.

But then the hotstring commands do essentially the same thing, and they are nearly instantaneous.

There could also be some issues with escape characters that we would need to address.

I can haz jQuery?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…