English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

The Android browser, since 2.2, supports fixed positioning, at least under certain circumstances such as when scaling is turned off. I have a simple HTML file with no JS, but the fixed positioning on three Samsung phones I've tried is simply wrong. Instead of true fixed positioning, the header sc...

George Pompidou

ooh man.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I haven't tested recent samsung phones

George Pompidou

see, this is why I really like native iPhone development. haha.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

so I don't know if the situation has gotten any better than the admittedly ancient 2.2 days

George Pompidou

I'm just now getting into it and the fact that everything is the literal same is so soothing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:30 AM

@GeorgePompidou well, isn't that just like only supporting one browser?

George Pompidou

yeah.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

only, you're guaranteed that it won't work at all on every other phone

George Pompidou

^.^ except they give you every single UI element in a fancy gui

and you drag/drop them

onto your interface

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah gui editors are okay

George Pompidou

iPhone development is magical. the only code I have to write is the code. <3

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:31 AM

enh.

George Pompidou

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 sure, but us iPhone owners are really self centered.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

you still have to futz around with making stuff happen when you want it to happen

George Pompidou

we think iPhones are the only device.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

and there will be bugs

George Pompidou

like Americans.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:32 AM

once you've dragged/dropped your gui on and you're ready to do the real work of making the app actually usable, you'll run into glitches

things like "it does this in ios 6 but not 7"

George Pompidou

you're right. I'm nowhere near completion of my first app. I was just giving first impressions.

I am not supporting 6

that's the first thing xcode asks you. which OSs do you want to support?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

only you can't downgrade your phone because apple won't let you, so, fuck those people, I guess?

George Pompidou

it's everyone's responsibility to keep up with the times.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If you have a proper android dev phone (a nexus) you can factory-install whatever version you want

George Pompidou

that's just… complicated and annoying

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:34 AM

no, it's great

George Pompidou

also, doesn't android compel you to use java?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

you can actually test whatever version your users are using

@GeorgePompidou yes, and no

you can write native apps

well, C apps

George Pompidou

with iPhone you assume they have the latest version since there's no hardware/manufacturer annoyances. it's just one thing, everyone can upgrade in 5 minutes to the latest. what's wrong with that?

it's so much more simple

tchrist

This is a nice question.

1

Q: Best etymological calque of the word Schadenfreude

This question is purely theoretical (i.e. I don't foresee actually trying to use the word), but using arguments based on etymology, as well as euphony and (least importantly) comprehensibility, what is the most etymologically faithful English equivalent for the German Schadenfreude? Other German...

single-word-requests etymology germanic-languages calques

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou well, not everyone can upgrade.

George Pompidou

3:35 AM

than having to make it work on everything

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 why not?

who can't?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou maybe their phone isn't supported.

Or maybe there is some problem preventing them from upgrading.

George Pompidou

it's gotta be really old for that

there's no problem with Apple devices.

skullpatrol

Did you really go to Chicago Latin?

George Pompidou

you're talking about 0.0001% of the people

>.< why do you ask

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou no, I'm talking 15%

George Pompidou

3:37 AM

in any case. with iPhone development, you write one set of code, enforce the latest version, and you get 85% usage. with Android, you write one set of code, enforce the latest version, and you have like 5%

there's just no comparison

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou Nobody enforces the latest version for android. Why would they do that?

George Pompidou

I'm saying in theory

skullpatrol

Just wondering if you were fibbing :-)

George Pompidou

to compare

no, why would I be lying? what makes you wonder?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You typically don't need to enforce the latest version. Sometimes you do. But realistically, you just pick a certain minimum, then code in feature-detection for the new features that may not be available.

skullpatrol

3:38 AM

People do on the internet

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Assuming you even care about the new features.

George Pompidou

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 all I am trying to argue is that iPhone development is more simple in general than Android development

and there's less I have to worry about

you cannot argue against that

it's just true.

@skullpatrol sure, but what does it matter what high school I went to? you just asked that like you had some connection to Latin or knew it or something.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou yeah, it's wonderful. You can reach maybe 40% of the world's market! And on tiny screens. Assuming that after all your hard work, Apple deigns to bless your app with holy Steve Jobs pee.

George Pompidou

I may have said Walter Payton or Parker. what possible reason would I have to say a different high school?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 you're saying that as if it's so terrible

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou I'm not an iphone fan.

George Pompidou

3:40 AM

iPhone has just as thriving an app store if not more so than Android

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't view its restricted ecosystem as a benefit.

George Pompidou

me neither

I just think it's pretty and works better at the end of the day. I can see the obvious issues with it, and the harm it does to the industry.

it's just such a pleasure to use and have. and to develop for.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou sure, iphone has a thriving app store. But there are countless apps that get rejected and then guess what? all those development efforts are wasted.

George Pompidou

and it's as marketable a skill as any.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou lol, "works better"

George Pompidou

3:42 AM

yeah. less end user problems for idiot users.

are you denying that?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

you cannot convince me that your iphone works better than my android

George Pompidou

it's a much better user experience. everyone knows that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou yes. I fully deny that.

George Pompidou

of course not! you're a developer!

I can convince an idiot though.

Jasper Loy

I think my phone has Android, but I am not sure.

George Pompidou

3:42 AM

and most are idiots.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou Just like everyone knows that coke is better than pepsi. or is it vice versa?

Jasper Loy

I prefer pepsi to coke.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy what phone is it?

George Pompidou

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 that's a silly thing to say. rejected apps are countable, and they're the terrible/rule breaking apps. if you really are serious about releasing an app for iPhone, you won't have problems.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

an xperia something, right?

Jasper Loy

3:43 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Sony Xperia.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy so yes, android.

George Pompidou

apple has restrictions for a reason. not because it's fun. they do it to make the UX better and more flawless.

Jasper Loy

The only reason I use a high tech phone is because it came free with the subscription. I prefer those old phones which can only call and message.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou come on. apps get rejected all the time for no good reason. Like, maybe apple just doesn't like what your app does. Maybe apple wants to release a similar app. Apps have been kicked out after having been successful, just so apple could release clones.

@GeorgePompidou look. I've used an iphone. flawless UX it's NOT.

George Pompidou

sure. but more so than Android. (don't think I haven't used plenty of Android phones)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:45 AM

@GeorgePompidou No, I disagree. I don't think apple's UX is measurably better than Android. Maybe before Android 4.0.

George Pompidou

Android just feels more clunky and less refined. its apps don't all follow the same design ideas. its versions are all over the place, and you never know when an update will be released by your manufacturer. it's got its flaws. can we agree that both have flaws and advantages?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But I mean, come on. you can't even install a proper competing browser on iphone.

Jasper Loy

I have never used any Apple products I think. But they look pretty.

George Pompidou

what's wrong with safari?

@JasperLoy heh, that's why I use them. I like pretty things.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou tons. It has so many bugs. And it only updates with the OS.

Jasper Loy

3:46 AM

@GeorgePompidou Such as your girlfriend.

George Pompidou

I've never encountered any bugs

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou Sure, they have flaws and advantages. But "better overall UX" is just pure subjectivity. you cannot prove it.

George Pompidou

@JasperLoy kinda creepy. but I'll let it slide.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou I am a web developer. believe me when I tell you it has bugs.

Jasper Loy

I am a lunatic, do not believe anything I say.

George Pompidou

3:47 AM

this argument goes nowhere 100% of the time though, can we agree to what I said ^

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1 min ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou Sure, they have flaws and advantages. But "better overall UX" is just pure subjectivity. you cannot prove it.

George Pompidou

oh, sorry

you're right. how about if I append "in my experience" to that?

Jasper Loy

On the train, almost everyone is using their phone or tablet. Only I use neither, and I look at people instead.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'll be the first to admit that it's annoying that android has difficulty getting version updates out. But, importantly, Google has fixed that problem (mostly) by moving many new features into the Play store instead of putting them in the OS. So you don't need the latest android for lots of things.

skullpatrol

@Jasper the longer you keep saying that, the more you're going to believe it pal.

Jasper Loy

3:49 AM

@skullpatrol It's just a joke pal.

George Pompidou

I'm not your pal, guy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But are you his NTSC?

skullpatrol

🙊🙈🙉

George Pompidou

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 interesting. I should've admitted this much earlier, but the last Android phone I've had was a moto something two years ago which struggled to get 4.0 for six months after it came out on other phones around me.

Jasper Loy

My Firefox on Linux now looks a lot like Chrome.

George Pompidou

3:51 AM

it pissed me off so much. I went right back to iPhone.

I also think the physical devices kind of look silly compared to Apple's design.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou yeah, prior to 4.0 Android wasn't as good. But the writing was on the wall for Apple. Google's approach is just better, IMO.

@GeorgePompidou Apple makes pretty phones. But so does HTC, and some other android vendors, and I love my Nexus 4's design.

George Pompidou

are you saying Android is gaining on Apple's user base?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou what? of course they are. They are way bigger now.

George Pompidou

huh. I guess I am outdated.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And I cannot stand the tiny iphone screen.

Jasper Loy

3:54 AM

Hey do you know that Microsoft has a free online version of Office with limited features? I only knew a few weeks ago.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Even my first android, a 4.3" Nexus S, was bigger than every iphone ever.

George Pompidou

cool! we're a minority now. we can be arrogant hipsters again!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 4.7 and 5.5 iPhones are coming out in a month

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou yes! once again, Apple reacts instead of innovates

George Pompidou

so don't you worry 'bout that.

nah, look at their feature list

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's only 5 years too late

George Pompidou

3:54 AM

iPhones will integrate with macs in more ways than android will ever be logically capable of integrating with any computer

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Apple's new feature list is almost always something that someone else has done.

George Pompidou

I really like it.

not this one.

give it a quick look if you're interested.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou That's fine, for the tiny percentage of people who have a mac

George Pompidou

I'm part of that, so I'm excited.

I also like macs. they are good computers, and even people who don't like them agree. the only problem is their price.

okay, that was assholeish.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou There are android devices that double as personal computers, when you dock them. There are android devices that dual-boot Windows. There are android devices that double as laptops when you attach a keyboard. There are android devices that are sold strictly as e-readers. There are android devices that are media TV controllers.

Android can do anything.

It's a general-purpose system.

George Pompidou

3:57 AM

eh. it hasn't quite replaced the standard laptop computer though, for many people.

but I can see that. I had an android tablet for a while. I really liked it, I had the nexus 10. the screen res was mental.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GeorgePompidou yeah, not yet. Mainly because android apps are optimized for touch and most laptop users need things that require mice.

@GeorgePompidou yeah it's great. strangely though Google never updated it. rumour is they're going to announce a nexus 8 which will replace the 7 and the 10.

George Pompidou

the macbook pro line is pretty genius for people who need a high end computer that can do anything (including video/game/production/photo)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But yeah, just like the ipad isn't replacing the macbook air, android tablets aren't replacing notebooks. But they can. by design.

@GeorgePompidou yeah but the price. sheesh.

George Pompidou

and yeah, I know, there are cheaper laptops that are the same/better. but with those you either have to get Windows and kill yourself or get linux which doesn't support the pro apps.

you're right, I admitted the price issue.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

anyway. Good for Apple for integrating with mac. That's what they should be doing, of course.

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