English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-05-21 (page 3 of 5)

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Matt Эллен

2:00 PM

> also, people use the site. Sorry.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I need a bigger telescope for that fine print.

user19161

1

Q: "Whom" or "who" and replies to such questions

Which is the most natural way to ask about this? I put some words in parentheses to show that they are optional. Whose are these notebooks? - (Of) our students./These notebooks are of our students./These notebooks belong to our students./These are the notebooks of our students. Whom...

pronouns possessive case

user19161

Phew! I managed to pull off this major edit!

Matt Эллен

good work

user19161

Now I may have a cookie!

Matt Эллен

2:05 PM

indeed

user19161

2:16 PM

@monica I noticed you have a zero per cent accept rate. Note that you can accept an answer to your question in addition to upvoting any or all of them by clicking on the green check mark. This gives the answer 15 points and yourself 2 points.

Matt Эллен

welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to our newest question on our favourite topic!

1

Q: Reading of the article “an” preceding quotations

Speakers often add “quote” or “quote, unquote” before quotations. But when a quotation is preceded by the article “an”, how should that article be pronounced? As I understand, the choice between “a” and “an” is determined by what phonetically follows the article. When “quote” or “quote, unquot...

pronunciation articles quotations

Yes! That's right! A vs an

user19161

@MattЭллен This is a bit special though! There seems to be all sorts of weird questions!

huh. i can't find one that specifically adresses quotations

user19161

Seriously, they should just use whatever they want. There are no rules!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Hey now that's an original twist.

Matt Эллен

2:20 PM

@JSBձոգչ yeah, it certainly is a new take on "what about if the thing I'm talking about is separated from the article by something"

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

The twist Vitaly was so desperately looking for.

user19161

Watch Twister for the ultimate twist. Or eat Twisties.

Matt Эллен

I think it is covered by the quote unquote parenthetical statements part of waiwai's post

user19161

Hey @jsb happy birthday two days ago! Here is some whisky for you!

thanks!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:23 PM

Oh crab I forgot.

Well I'll congratulate in 363 days, then.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Wrong. This is a leap year!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You are a leap year.

Matt Эллен

How coincidental - I was at a birthday party 2 days ago.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Let me ask you, Mr Superman, to which months are leap days added on your home planet?

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Oh maybe you were just trolling me.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:25 PM

No. I am wondering where in the year you put February.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Oh did I make a mistake?

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Oh shit! I made a mistake. I admit it.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I win again. Yay!

RegDwight always wins. that's why we made him mod

user19161

The above conversation proves that we are all nuts. QED.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:27 PM

Actually before Clark Kent interrupted me I was going to whine.

I need a mod feature that would inform me, "user X needs whiskey".

i always need whiskey

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

See.

It's so desperately needed, and that's just you.

user19161

I recently learnt that whisky is the BrE spelling and whiskey is the AmE and IrE spelling.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

We have like over 9000 other users.

user19161

Only chat users need to be congratulated.

Matt Эллен

2:29 PM

yep, that's why I'm here. my constant need for congratulation

@ClarkKent really? they both look fine to me (as an AmE...reader)

BBC News really sucks in all respects.

Sorry.

bbc.co.uk/news/business-18018635

I mean, wtf??

This would be the lowest of the low in Dutch tabloids.

user19161

@Mitch Well, I was just following dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/whisky

Not to mention the general quality of their articles.

And their language.

"Italy earthquake", that sort of thing.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

What's wrong with "Italy earthquake"?

2:31 PM

What isn't??

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

And what's wrong with the Greece article?

user19161

I am also beginning to think that the colour of the autogenerated avatar has something to do with the first letter in the email address. For example, Jimi and mine are blue and Mitch and Monica's are silver. So J means blue and M means silver.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus that's pretty shoddy of the BBC. that should be in the magazine section, not the business section. Business is serious business

Yeah.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Oh big deal.

2:32 PM

And it shouldn't be in a serious newspaper.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Someone checked the wrong checkbox.

user19161

@Cerberus What's wrong?

Superficial and callous.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

It's not a serious newspaper. It's a web site.

I expected more from BBC News, once.

user19161

2:33 PM

Italy earthquake just means earthquake in Italy, doesn't it?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus it's human interest. The BBC has to appeal to a wide audience most of the time.

Although I must admit I would not even consider looking at the website of the Dutch news, which no doubts sucks even more.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@ClarkKent yeah I have no idea what Cerberus is smoking again.

@Cerberus It's business news. you need to invest wisely. I'm sure Financial Times has a corresponding article about the expected boom in the travel industry in Greece.

@MattЭллен I don't see why it should, but in any case that is low quality.

user19161

2:34 PM

@cerb Pray tell us what's wrong with Italy earthquake.

@Mitch That is different. Look at the title.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

It's almost like this is your first day on the Internet.

Go visit two girls, one cup, then reconsider your notion of bad journalism.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus because it's paid for by most of the people

@ClarkKent It's just headline-ese for 'Italian earthquake' or 'earthquake in Italy' a couple fewer letters to fit.

No, I have known the BBC News website for ten years now.

@MattЭллен So it should be able to withstand the pressure of commercialism.

user19161

2:35 PM

@Mitch Yeah, and Italian earthquake might sound weird, as if the earthquake has a human quality.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Mitch I would never say "Italian earthquake". That just sounds wrong.

And it should hire decent editors.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

14

Q: Why do we say “Japan earthquake” and not “Japanese earthquake”?

Isn’t earthquake a noun and the preceding word an adjective? Isn’t “Japanese” the adjectival form of “Japan”?

"How Greece's euro-crisis could affect your holiday" is too low-brow?

They get, what, 5 billion from tax payers?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:36 PM

Geez, Cerb really is on a rampage. I'll drop in later when he's vented off.

@Mitch For a good news site, yes. I expected it to be better than the Dutch news. The BBC in general has a better reputation.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus if the people who pay don't get what they want, they will stop paying. Then I'll have to pay, because I want that stuff (not that article, but all the other stuff). So let them eat cake once in a while.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 On a rampage? You ask me to explain why they title sucks, so I comply.

@MattЭллен However that may be, it is low quality.

And "the people" don't want Italy earthquake.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Cerberus you comply?

You still haven't explained why the title "sucks".

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus uh, I think I've linked to a different article.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:38 PM

You only said "it should hire decent editors" and "They get, what, 5 billion from tax payers?"

That's not an explanation!

@MattЭллен What?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I went to an article about how Greece quitting the Euro will effect holidays

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 The explanation is that it is superficial and callous to have a whole article about the holidays of tourists when Greece is going kaputt.

Matt Эллен

not one about earth quakes

That is another example of low quality that I have been seeing over the past years.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:40 PM

@Cerberus it's an important aspect to the readers. The readers are the tourists.

Matt Эллен

oh i see

user19161

Oh no, another political discussion. I have given up on politics long ago. This world is finished until I take over.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I don't care. It is low quality.

Pornography is also important to many people. Doesn't mean it has to be on the BBC news.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

1. Says who? 2. Why do you care?

Say I.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:41 PM

News values, sometimes called news criteria, determine how much prominence a news story is given by a media outlet, and the attention it is given by the audience. A. Boyd states that: "News journalism has a broadly agreed set of values, often referred to as 'newsworthiness'..." News values are not universal and can vary widely between different cultures. In Western practice, decisions on the selection and prioritization of news are made by editors on the basis of their experience and intuition, although analysis by J. Galtung and M. Ruge showed that several factors are consistently appl...

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 1. Says Cerb 2. Just because.

And I care because I care about the good things and the bad things that happen in the world, like anybody else.

I can't even watch the Dutch news anymore. It has been dumbed down into oblivion.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

This is the first time in two years that I see you care about a title on a website.

user19161

The more one is aware of, the more pain one feels.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

In fact, you don't even edit our own titles. On this site.

2:43 PM

I have complained about the BBC News website since forever.

user19161

Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Cerberus then what is new today?

This particular title, which is an egregious and notable example.

Of petty provincialism and callous superficiality.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 sometimes a dripping tap overflows a bucket

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

That's what I'm thinking, yes.

user19161

2:44 PM

@Cerberus Very nice adjectives and nouns there, together with some alliteration.

The Dutch news is all about Oscar nominations and interviews with football players.

From what I hear, only Italian television is worse.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You watch the wrong news.

I have Dutch television. You don't.

I don't watch it. Or I would not be alive to speak with you.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I have watched it many times and I am still alive.

It is on line.

user19161

2:45 PM

I don't even watch the news here. The people talk rubbish.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

The people talk rubbish everywhere. We are talking rubbish right now as we speak.

But watching gibberish is a hundred times less obnoxious.

NOU

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Then go watch gibberish. Who stops you?

Perhaps I should.

Are there any good English newspapers besides the FT?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You are like Vitaly. "OMG OMG OMG I have just heard of a person in the jungle of Sumatra who believes in a deity!"

2:46 PM

I believe the Times lost most of its mojo?

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I would be like that if I heard that a well-known Dutch scientist believed in a deity.

I.e. shocked.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Well have you heard of a well-known Dutch scientist believing in a deity?

Because you are shocked.

One that I don't already know did.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 was the pope in the woods again?

user19161

@Cerberus Well, it is not shocking to me because that cannot be disproved.

Huh?

user19161

2:49 PM

And there are many great scientists who are religious.

user19161

So it is not shocking at all. QED.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Go play with your can of worms, children.

In any case, I am looking to buy a projector.

user19161

I rather have a can of cookies.

Have you any advices?

Matt Эллен

2:50 PM

@Cerberus I'm not bad at projecting! It's all your fault, btw

user19161

@Cerberus What kind of projector?

Or any other amusing vices?

@MattЭллен How is it my fault?

I'm not a screen.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

-1

A: What part of speech is "chiropractic"?

"Chiropractic" just doesn't work for me as a noun (it sounds like an adjective!) and since no one else really knows, I'm just going to use "chiropractory" as the noun!

user19161

Projector can mean many things.

@ClarkKent One to project my computer screen on the wall.

user19161

2:51 PM

@Cerberus And where do you want to fit this? In your residence?

Eh my residence? Sure.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus are you joking about my joke?

@MattЭллен Probably, but I wasn't sure what it meant...

Except that it was a joke.

Matt Эллен

Psychological projection

Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them. An example of this behavior might be blaming another for self failure. The mind may avoid the discomfor...

Yes, I figured it was about that.

And there was one thing I could think of, but...

It wasn't actual projection.

Matt Эллен

2:53 PM

awwww. so close!

Yes?

Matt Эллен

sure!

user19161

@MattЭллен Another deep term for something simple.

Well, I don't want the projector too close.

More like three meters.

user19161

@Cerberus metres

2:55 PM

Hmm yes...I believe both are used in Britain?

Matt Эллен

I haven't owned a projector, so I don't know what good ones are, sorry.

user19161

@Cerberus Really?

@MattЭллен OK...I was considering buying a second-hand one.

But then there are worn lamps and such...

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I disagree

@MattЭллен Hmm OK, noted!

user19161

2:56 PM

A meter is something that measures; a metre is a length.

user19161

In BrE of course.

You already taught me to use programme everywhere.

Matt Эллен

yay!

Now I shall do so with metre too.

user19161

Note that the instrument is called micrometer screw gauge because it refers to something that measures.

2:57 PM

Although actually I think will would be more appropriate there.

user19161

@Cerberus Wrong!

Wrong?

Matt does it.

Matt Эллен

eh?

I do

How can it be wrong?

user19161

In BrE, use computer program and television programme.

2:58 PM

See?

Matt Эллен

and computer programme

user19161

Oh OK, I forgot Matt has his own dictionary.

@ClarkKent Yeah I used to write like that.

user19161

In AmE, use computer program and TV program.

Well, we're not in AmE, are we?

Matt Эллен

2:59 PM

:D

We're under British influence.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

-1 for utter nonsense. Chiropractic is used as a noun, and listed as such in dictionaries. Chiropractory is neither. Oh, and may I ask you if you also refer to medics as medories, to alcoholics as alcoholories, and to logic as logory? — RegDwight ΒВBẞ8 8 mins ago

Matt Эллен

excellent

user19161

@Cerberus I am not of this world. I influence myself.

Just as you would be under Dutch, not Belgian influence if you spoke or wrote Dutch.

3:08 PM

@ClarkKent Nope. Also.

cornbread ninja

hello from EDT

(rather than CDT)

Hi all

Matt Эллен

hello

@Cerberus just look at the luminous flux and resolution (and keep in mind that you'll have to change the light source in any projector on a pretty much regular basis if you decide to use it as much as your regular screen), I don't think anything else matters

i have a quick question, if i can :)

Matt Эллен

3:13 PM

ok

@MattЭллен thanks :) if I have a tree structure, and i want to refer to something hierarchically lower (closer to the leaves): what's the best way?

cornbread ninja

@clabacchio, like the child of a parent?

@Vitaly Luminous flux? As expressed in lumen?

@cornbreadninja yes, but not strictly a child, also more steps down

@Cerberus Yeah

Matt Эллен

3:16 PM

@clabacchio closer to the leaves? isn't that heirarchically higher?

@clabacchio Can you use it in a sentence?

user19161

@MattЭллен Branches vs leaves.

@Vitaly Ah OK. Yes, I was thinking 1000 lm would be the minimum?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Damnit, we have so many "multiple possession" questions already. We need a canonical one.

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent right, leaves are at the end of the heirarchy, so they are higher

3:17 PM

@Cerberus That depends on how well your room is lit

Those mini-projectors have 20 lm or so.

@MattЭллен lower in the sense of "more deep"

Matt Эллен

@clabacchio I see

user19161

@MattЭллен No, leaves come from branches, so they are lower in that sense.

@ClarkKent right :)

@MattЭллен think to a tree in Australia :)

user19161

3:17 PM

@clabacchio I am always right. :-)

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent I disagree with that definition of lower, but I understand now.

@Vitaly I was thinking of a room with lots of windows, covered with medium-thick curtains, no direct sunlight on the windows.

At noon.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Note how the leaves are at the bottom.

user19161

@clabacchio You can always define a word yourself.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Oh, and QED.

Matt Эллен

3:19 PM

user image

note how the leaves are at the top

Wow!

Matt Эллен

your tree is upside down

user19161

@MattЭллен Geezis.

Thanks for your informational picture.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Mar 20 at 14:58, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

user image

3:20 PM

@Cerberus Hmm, can you watch the projector in action? I'd take a wild guess that 1500 Lm would be enough for most home users under those circumstances, but I'd personally go for 2000 Lm just to be sure (but if you have the spondulicks for more expensive projectors, why not).

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Note how the goats are at the top.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 ok, you win lol

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Note how I am flying on top, but it is beyond your vision.

@ClarkKent awesome idea!

cornbread ninja

@clabacchio you could number things generationally

user19161

3:21 PM

@clabacchio If it is technical writing use the established terminology. If there is none then really you can come up with anything sensible.

@Vitaly I don't have a particular one in mind, but I won't be able to watch it in action, probably. And money is of primary concern, so it would have to be a cheap one in any case.

@Cerberus But most projectors these days seem to come with 2000+ Lm anyway.

user image

@Vitaly I was looking at second-hand projectors.

user19161

Interesting how the projectors are interspersed with the trees.

But lamps are so expensive that I would have to be sure that the lamp would last a while.

Matt Эллен

3:23 PM

@Cerberus ooo, drapey

Lamps are usually more expensive than cheap second-hand projectors.

user19161

@Cerberus I immediately identified it as weeping willow!

And hard to come by.

@ClarkKent I couldn't be more proud of you.

user19161

One can also say that the trees are interspersed with projectors.

A new projector would be € 200+.

user19161

3:25 PM

@Cerberus Looking at the file name confirms my suspicion.

user19161

@Cerberus Just move the period at the end to make it 2.00+ instead of 200+.

@Vit: And I don't think a mini projector (which are very cheap) would be any improvement over my 24-inch screen, would it?

Those seem to be intended for phones.

@Cerberus No. o_o

Whereas what I want is a somewhat bigger image, because I want to be able to see it better from the couch.

100 % bigger would already be a nice improvement.

user19161

@Cerberus Now I am wondering what you are seeing!

Matt Эллен

3:27 PM

they are all wrong, neither Tom, nor Jane, nor me have friends

My projector is rather expensive and I still prefer the good ol' desktop monitor.

@Vitaly For watching films?

I only use it when I want to lie down and read for a while. Or something.

@Cerberus For anything.

Hmm.

Why?

user19161

@Vitaly I remember you project onto the ceiling.

3:28 PM

The screen is easier on the eyes.

I can't see enough details on my screen from the couch.

I can read subtitles, but not subtle facial expressions when it's not zoomed in.

user19161

@Cerberus You will soon become a couch potato.

@Vitaly How far is your couch from your screen?

Or don't you use it that way?

And in any case, you'd need a more expensive and more luminous projector for movies :P

And no, I don't use it that way

@Vitaly Why? I don't care about quality per se, just visibility.

@Vitaly Ah, so you never watch a film from your computer on the couch?

What wonders you are missing out on!

Matt Эллен

3:32 PM

and then you'd need one that can project in 3D, with 9.2 surround sound and a popcorn maker

user19161

@MattЭллен Also get ready 3D glasses.

user19161

And something to pee in so you don't have to visit the toilet.

@MattЭллен Especially the popcorn maker, yes.

Matt Эллен

:) nommy

user19161

Popcorn makes me puke, it's true.

3:34 PM

@Cerberus Do/did you have those at uni?

@Vitaly Yes?

And those would be fine.

@Cerberus Okay then, if you actually have an idea what a cheap-projector picture looks like.

Matt Эллен

@ClarkKent I think popcorn only once made me puke - that was at my 7th or 8th birthday, and I was running around and eating lots of sugar, and the last thing I ate before puking was popcorn

user19161

@MattЭллен Geezis. I wonder who you puked on.

Matt Эллен

I can't remember :D

3:36 PM

here's a complete grammar of turkish for everyone who is interested (which is everyone, naturally):

2

turuz.info/Dil/0212-Turkish%20comprehensive%20grammar.pdf

@Vitaly Heh, well, I figure a €-200 projector isn't going to look nice anyway. What I want is just sitting on my couch and watching a film from the screen, without missing out on important details, like small objects and facial expressions on small faces.

Matt Эллен

@JSBձոգչ thanks!

@JSBձոգչ tries to look interested

Yes, very interesting!

user19161

@cornbreadninja My only encounter with ninjas is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasuke_%28TV_series%29

user19161

@JSBձոգչ Wait, you learn Turkish? I know your wife is Romanian.

cornbread ninja

3:39 PM

@ClarkKent, would watch.

@ClarkKent reading a grammar of Turkish is pretty different from learning Turkish

@Cerberus Here's how I see it: a €-200 projector probably wouldn't support FullHD, unless I am missing something. If you try and run a HD movie in 1024x768 you'll notice that the image gets considerably worse than if the movie's resolution matched your screen's resolution. Second, a €-200 projector's picture would be more grainy? and obscured by the background and natural light (not enough lumens), which would make paying attention to small objects a pain in the derrière.

@ClarkKent Sorry, I was interrupted by a colleague...thank you guys anyway!

cornbread ninja

@JSB, thank you!

oh, it's time to bowl.

latersall

@Cerberus think of it as a mobile's built-in camera's matrix vs an SLR camera's matrix, the cheaper your projector, the worse its matrix's quality

3:49 PM

@Vitaly I looked at a few videos, and many are lower than 800x600 anyway. That is a perfectly acceptable resolution for me (I'm really an atypical film watcher: I don't care about quality at all, as long as I don't actually miss things).

But when I watch this 720x544 video from the screen, I really miss lots of details.

So it's really not the resolution.

Winged scapula. Sounds like something Norse.

If this 720x544 video were huge, it would be fine for me.

@KitFox Is that what's bruised/injured/?

That is a result of two-ish torn muscles in my shoulder.

Oh, actually torn? That sounds bad: is it?

What did he say?

The bunched up muscle plus inflammation is pushing my shoulder blade out.

3:53 PM

Sounds painful.

She said it looks like I have a broken wing.

so you're growing wings? that sounds like fun.

Broken, really?

Wow.

Then she spent five minutes explaining that she didn't mean that anything was actually broken.

soon you'll be flying over your boss and pooping on his head

3:53 PM

Oh...

Then what did she say you should do?

Ice, megadose superultra heavyduty anti-inflammatory meds, and a muscle relaxant when I'm not working.

Sounds good.

And did you tell her you were going to give this presentation and stuff?

got it

@Vitaly > Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to gen.lib.rus.ec

Hm.

@Cerberus Yes, because she was all like "you should take the rest of the day off" and I was like "I can't," then she said like "well, tomorrow then?" and I was all like "OK."

3:57 PM

your Russian internets are too advanced for me, it seems

@KitFox Ah OK. If she didn't say it was imperative that you stay home today, then I guess you should do it if it's really important.

@Vitaly So they don't have the CGEL anywhere, do they?

I searched.

She said the sooner I can take a whole day off and not lift children and small animals, the faster I will heal up.

Ah OK.

So can you turn in sick tomorrow?

oooh! speaking of small animals! we now have a duckling living in our bathrom

@JSBձոգչ OK looks like they filtering American IPs out. I can apparently get Catalan, Chinese, Indonesian, Ukrainian, Dutch, Modern Welsh, Cantonese, and Japanese in the same Routledge series, if you are interested in any of them

@Cerberus No. :(

3:59 PM

@JSBձոգչ Aww!

@Vitaly I figured. Not anywhere else either, eh?

i'd take indonesian, cantonese, and japanese

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Transcript for

May '1221

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

Not for the faint of heart or those easily triggered by Englis...

phrase-requests pronunciation single-word-requests synonyms

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