English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

12:00 AM

Except that 8 makes no sense unless you count in octal numbers.

And the numbers 8 and 9 need to go.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10

So it will always be 10 pints to a gallon.

It's just that 10 is now 2³.

Some minor adjustments might need to be made in books and computers around the world to accommodate the change.

tchrist

12:23 AM

@Cerberus Naw, computers are already in octal. Check your nearest byte.

We already have 1,024 drams in a gallon — known in metric as a kilodram.

Americans use doubling and trebling systems, you know.

Two cups per pint, two pints per quart, to quarts per well call it a half-gallon, and two half-gallons per gallon. You never have to count past two.

And it is three teaspoons per tablespoon.

Cerberus

And yet my spreadsheet says 7+7=14, not 16.

tchrist

And it is three hands per foot.

Cerberus

So something about it would need changing if we should adopt the new system.

tchrist

macbook# printf "%o\n" `expr 7 + 7`
16

With 16 drams per ounce and 16 ounces per pound, that’s 256 drams per pound, or 400 if you prefer octal.

With three hands per foot and three feet per yard, it’s nine hands per yard.

If there are 392,040 square hands per acre, and 640 acres per square mile, then how many grains are there in a troy pound?

Did you know there are exactly 231 cubic inches in a gallon?

Do you know the prime factors of 231?

3, 7, and 11.

Isn’t that special?

So a 3" x 7" by 11" container holds exactly one gallon.

And they say our system isn’t good for anything. Silly!

It is great for kids’ math skills.

Did you know there are exactly 144 pecks in a chaldron?

One knot is 6,080 feet per hour, so 40 knots is . . . .

macbook# units '54 admiraltyknots' 'miles/minute'
	* 1.0363636
	/ 0.96491228

Not enough. You need 54 of them.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:43 AM

@Cerberus So far we just have light rain and high winds. By the time the storm reaches us tomorrow it won't be a hurricane anymore.

Although a woman in Toronto was killed due to airborne debris blamed on high winds: thestar.com/news/gta/article/…

Seems like a bit of a freak accident though. The winds were not all that strong when I was out earlier.

Cerberus

Yeah, yeah, take out all the suspension.

I have probably asked this before, but have you ever played Thief?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:58 AM

No

Back in the day it didn't run on my PC

Cerberus

I have rebought Thief 2 (because I think my brother and I already bought a copy ten years ago), and there is now a community patch that makes it look passable, in high res.

Aww haha.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

and by the time I had a PC that'd run it, I didn't bother playing it

Cerberus

Well, it now loads instantly.

And runs very fast.

And it's fun! If you like sneaking around.

They have also made a total conversion of Doom 3 that turns it into Thief, but much prettier.

With many newly-made missions.

Some are said to be better than the original missions from Thief 2.

And Thief 3 is said to be so-so.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I played a game called "Splinter Cell" which has a lot of sneaking around. But also shooting.

You have to, eg, hide bodies, or else they get discovered

I think my version of Splinter Cell only works on computers with a nvidia display though. It came with the video card. So I can't play it anymore.

Cerberus

Isn't there a mod?

I have heard of Splinter Cell.

Thief 2 simply won't run on a multi-core CPU.

So I needed the community patch/mod.

And now it looks and works a thousand times better than it ever did.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:10 AM

TBH I don't care that much.

I liked the ideas of the game better than the execution.

Cerberus

Of which game?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

of Splinter Cell. The mechanics of the game were amusing, but somehow the game didn't keep my interest

hey @Mahnax did you see the Nexus 4 announcement?

Mahnax

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Mm, maybe.

I'm not sure, I've been busy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It will be $359 for the 16GB version in Canada

play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_4_16gb

Mahnax

Oh, that's cheap!

But is that on a plan?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:22 AM

yeah, for a quad-core, 2GB ram phone with 320ppi display

Mahnax

Or just for the phone?

Cerberus

Then you shall have to buy that one! Nope, no plan.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

nope! that's unlocked, no contract

straight from the goog

Cerberus

Dirt cheap.

Mahnax

Woah.

Dirt cheap, indeed.

I'll apply for a job online right now, since I'm sixteen.

Cerberus

1:23 AM

The main disadvantage is that it has no replaceable battery (unlike the GN) and no memory-card reader (just like the GN).

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't even need a phone, but at that price, I feel like I have to buy it.

Cerberus

Junkie.

@Mahnax Wait, what, I didn't miss your birthday, did I?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If I get this one, I should probably also buy an old Nexus One, for completion's sake

Cerberus

Hoarder.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

*collector

FTFY

Mahnax

1:24 AM

@Cerberus You might've?

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 See, it's telling that you should even say that...

Mahnax

Oct. 23?

Cerberus

@Mahnax When was it?

Ahh.

Hmm.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Nah, I've been a collector forever

I have a large number of comic books in bags with cardboard backings

Cerberus

I remember it came up at some point, but I have forgotten whether I have wished you a happy birthday already. If not, then I hereby wish you a happy 17th year of your existence.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:26 AM

For the books I buy, if a book is part of a series, I have all the books in that series.

And if I could somehow rationalize the expenditures, I'd have way more lego, to fill out a collection of sorts. instead of just random sets here and there.

Cerberus

However, the new government is planning to increase it to 18!

I actually seem to remember that you said you were at the legal drinking age here.

Ugh, chat posted those lines in the wrong order.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

is the drinking age 16?

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Sick!

Yes.

I think that 1.) 16 is OK, and 2.) increasing only makes it illegal, but kids will still drink.

A lot.

Only selling it is illegal anyway.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's not quite as bad as it sounds. But an argument is developing between me and my wife. I want to get another bookcase and she says "you can't just fill all the walls with bookcases". I say "Not ALL the walls. But one more case." And we go in circles.

Cerberus

I'm fine with book cases, if you have the space.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:29 AM

@Cerberus It may have a dampening effect.

Cerberus

But can't you stow them away in boxes, if they bother here?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus There is no point in owning a book if it is stown in a box.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I believe all research points in the opposite direction.

What point is there in owning a book that's in a book case?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I dunno. All I know is that here the drinking age is 19, and at least 16 year olds don't go to bars and get drunk there.

@Cerberus It serves as a decoration when you're not reading it. And when you want to read something, you can easily peruse the bookcase.

Cerberus

They get all the more drunk outside bars. And who says they don't go to bars anyway?

Very hard to control.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:31 AM

@Cerberus No, it's easy. They just ask for ID. Fake ID is not as common as it's made out to be.

Lots of places check ID

here, anyway

Cerberus

And consider this. Which kids do you think will be most likely to drink anyway? The ones most likely to drink too much. So the problem is not the large majority who don't drink too much, but those are the only ones who might perhaps drink a bit (not much) less.

Places here are supposed to check IDs, but they usually don't.

I remember kids had a bottle of booze in primary school.

When we were 12 or so.

And they got horribly drunk.

And that was only the one time they got caught.

You cannot stop behaviour that is desirable for all parties involved.

All kids smoke pot here, even though the minimum age is 18.

I'm a freak for never having done so.

Smoked it at school too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I know you can't prevent underage anything. But it stands to reason that certain limits can be effective at reducing it.

eg, raising prices on tobacco is a surefire way to reduce teen smoking.

not eliminate it completely

but reduce it.

KitFox

And the younger you start, the more likely you are to be an addict.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

brb, gotta reboot for a java update.

I'm back

I swear, Oracle is not being a very good keeper of Java

Robusto

1:59 AM

Why is ELU in read-only mode?

David Wallace

@Robusto SO is too.

Robusto

Weird.

Cerberus

Login is currently unavailable

The feature you're trying to use is currently unavailable.

We're doing a bit of maintenance right now and have put the site in read-only mode so that you can still access all the questions, answers, and general knowledge goodness.

We'll enable all features of the site as soon as maintenance completes.

XOXO,
The Stack Exchange Team

David Wallace

Maybe they're rebooting for a java update.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Certain limits, yes. Any limit, no.

There is no proof or evidence that this will work.

Consider how people in France actually smoke more pot than here, even though it is forbidden there and not here.

And hello, peoples.

David Wallace

2:02 AM

The boys' room at my secondary school often smelt of pot.

It baffles me that no teachers seemed to know that there were lots of kids who used it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm sure that there have been studies done on this.

Lots of jurisdictions have played with raising/lowering the drinking age

I'm fairly sure that it reduces the incidence of drinking.

David Wallace

We lowered the drinking age a few years ago, from 20 to 18. Unsurprisingly, the teenage drinking problem here is now far worse.

waiwai933

Stack Exchange is failing over to Oregon servers because of some flooding in New York (AFAIK, no SE servers are at flood-level, but it's out of precaution), so that's why the network is offline. @DavidWallace @Robusto

Well, not offline. Read-only.

cornbread ninja

I just saw a shot of the flooded WTC site. :\

David Wallace

@waiwai933 Thanks for the information.

cornbread ninja

2:06 AM

@KitFox this.

David Wallace

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Kiddiepacks should be illegal.

Robusto

Yeah, weird. They closed my office today but we never got much more than some rain and a little wind. I guess New York is getting it worse.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

This study did a meta analysis of 200-odd studies in the US

> Compared with a wide range of other programs and efforts to reduce drinking among teenagers, increasing the legal age for purchase and consumption of alcohol to 21 appears to have been the most successful effort to date

David Wallace

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

interesting

tchrist

2:29 AM

@waiwai933 We’ve been working all day for our failover plans because of that. I'm afraid to go check.

Ok, we’ve still up down in the DC-ish area. Must be worse up north.

@DavidWallace Doesn’t make sense to me. My drinking age was 18. Never bothered. I was able to get into bars at 16 if I wanted, and my folks would let me drink beer or wine at home if I wanted. I didn’t. Other things to do, didn’t like it. In fact, I never really drank almost at all before grad school. Not my thing.

MετάEd

4:41 AM

@Robusto I have a friend on Long Island who's waiting in the dark for it to be over.

user19161

11:22 AM

Boo!

user19161

Anyone seen gigili around? I want to ask her something.

Matt Эллен

11:37 AM

Hello.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:01 PM

Morning

So the replica of the HMS Bounty sank. Suspiciously... the captain is missing.

KitFox

Also suspiciously, Assassin's Creed 3 is about fighting the redcoats.

So that's kind of related.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I thought it took place in Italy?

KitFox

Um. Just a minute.

coughs

What? Don't be silly! Assassin's Creed 2 takes place in Italy.

Despite the weird anti-British sentiment, I am rather interested in playing it. I haven't played either of the others, but they look like pretty good Elder Scrolls substitutes.

JSBձոգչ

redcoats, you say?

do they give you the option of switching sides and fighting for the british?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

An anti-British sentiment in any non-England nation in Europe is pretty understandable at almost every point in European history. Folk just didn't get along then.

KitFox

12:11 PM

@JSBձոգչ I did.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I meant now. It's weird to promote anti-British sentiment at this point.

@JSBձոգչ I don't know, but that would be cool.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, it was made in Montreal, right?

JSBձոգչ

does it really count as anti-british sentiment, still?

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh. Right.

JSBձոգչ

isn't that kind of like anti-carthage sentiment? sure, it was a real thing at one point, but it's kind of moot now

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ass creed 2 and its expansions were all about Italy and the Bolger (sp?)

KitFox

12:13 PM

@JSBձոգչ Well, kind of. I mean, the gameplay revolves around defeating the British.

@MattЭллен I misspoke then changed it and tried to frame up Mr. Shiny.

@JSBձոգչ Nah, it's different.

Matt Эллен

In Ass Creed 3 you play as a half Native American, half settler

KitFox

Most war games involve bad guys who were really bad or are still bad.

JSBձոգչ

@MattЭллен wait, really?

Or are made up.

@JSBձոգչ yup

12:14 PM

|publisher=Ubisoft |director=Alex Hutchinson (Creative) |designer= |producer=Francois Pelland (Senior) |writer=Corey May (Lead) Matt Turner |composer=Lorne Balfe |series=Assassin's Creed |engine=AnvilNext |version= |platforms=PlayStation 3Xbox 360Wii UMicrosoft Windows |released=PlayStation 3, Xbox 360Microsoft WindowsWii U |genre=Action-adventure, open world, stealth |modes=Single-player, multiplayer |ratings= |media=Optical disc, download |requirements = }} Assassin's Creed III is an upcoming historical action-adventure open world stealth video game being developed by Ubisoft Montreal ...

JSBձոգչ

i find that pretty terrible

KitFox

Doesn't that sound interesting?

I think it sounds interesting.

Of course, they've probably not bothered to pay much attention to history.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So I missed your edit, Kit, and thought you were still talking about 2

Matt Эллен

Escapist Guide to Assassin's Creed 3

@KitFox good plan!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

In the context of the American Revolution, anti-British sentiment is the norm.

KitFox

12:16 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It was still made in Montreal though.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Even Canadians don't really root for the British in that battle. At least, I don't.

JSBձոգչ

funny. i'm an american, and i do

long live king george!

KitFox

@MattЭллен U.S.A.! U.S.A.!

Matt Эллен

@JSBձոգչ Yeah!

@KitFox You may have won the war, but um, well ...

KitFox

Awkward.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:18 PM

It's not like Canadians were all that in love with England at the time either. But there were fewer of us, so it took a while before things settled down enough here to realize that we'd like to go our own way.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Wow. This makes me want to play it even more.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox it's quite a good advert. I felt the same.

KitFox

When I saw the television ad, I thought it would be a laugh. Good old nationalism, you know.

Matt Эллен

I don't think they were even paid by Activision to make it sound good

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен So that video suggests that part of his motivation is revenge for mistreatment of natives by the europeans. I wonder how the game treats this aspect of history. Both the American revolutionaries and the British are pretty much equally horrid in those departments.

KitFox

12:23 PM

@MattЭллен Ubisoft?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yeah, them :D

user19161

Hello bros.

KitFox

I really like that the main character is Native American. Talk about under-represented groups.

Hi @Jasper.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 aye. I don't know. That video represents my sum total knowledge about the game :)

hi @JasperLoy :)

user19161

@KitFox Bro has become my favourite word, I picked it up in the math room. =)

Matt Эллен

12:25 PM

You be careful what you pick up in there!

user19161

They also use dawg and daw there.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox Not just native though. half-breed. That is interesting. On one hand, it makes the character more identifiable to non-natives who can cast him as "white". On the other hand, metis are often outcasts in both societies.

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Tru dat, which is wicked terrific in terms of a character treatment. People can identify with feeling like an outsider. Also, that whole child of rape thing. So apparently his mom didn't shut that whole thing down.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 At least, I assume that's what they are implying.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox wait, I missed that. he's a child of rape?

KitFox

His father was a British soldier, I think they said.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:28 PM

okay, first you change history so that we're talking about a different game. Then you change history so that your replies come before my questions. Don't you know that time travel is dangerous?! You're going to unravel the fabric of the universe!

KitFox

Of course, blended ethnicity is the norm around here for natives. I'm one-sixteenth native myself.

And the groups of Native Americans we get through here are mostly whiter than white bread.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox nice! me too!

Robusto

@KitFox Wait ... I thought a woman's body could prevent conception in cases of "legitimate" rape.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto That's the "magic vagina" theory

KitFox

Magic uterus.

Matt Эллен

12:30 PM

yep, every sperm is interviewed at the ovum, and only those not from "legitimate rape" are let in

KitFox

Men don't know anything about female anatomy, do they?

RegDwighт

Every sperm is sacred in your neighborhood.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The vagina knows if it was rape or not and passes the info along to the other magic bits, duh

Matt Эллен

yes! sperm have to get to an egg. this is true!

user19161

This room is full of sex.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:31 PM

Women don't know anything about magic, or their bodies, do they?

KitFox

@JasperLoy Rape != sex.

Matt Эллен

lunches

Robusto

@KitFox We may not know anything about women's anatomy, but we know what we like.

RegDwighт

If your vagina is not magic, then God hates you and you're going to hell anyway, so what's a rape or two in the great scheme of things.

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It sure is a good thing that the men are keeping all this crazy information from the girls.

user19161

12:31 PM

@Robusto Different people like different parts.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox We don't want them to worry their pretty little heads

KitFox

So remember how I was mystified about my gf hanging out with that R Catholic?

Robusto

Kris strikes again. Check out the comments on this answer:

2

A: "Broad surface" or "large surface"

A broad surface is one where one dimension (side) is particularly large compared to the other. A rectangle with one side much more than the other is a broad surface (breadth: units of linear measure). By contrast, a large surface is one where both the dimensions (sides) are more than usual suc...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox yes

Robusto

It's only broad if you're facing the broad side.

RegDwighт

12:32 PM

Sorry, I don't understand English.

KitFox

Well, not too surprisingly, he stopped calling her.

RegDwighт

What if I'm facing it with my ass?

Robusto

Then you're defacing it.

KitFox

I told her it was probably because he thought 1. she is a "liberated" woman which meant that 2. she was a whore so 3. she should put out. Then he was really confused when he didn't get laid.

RegDwighт

@Robusto no, I'm not defacating it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:34 PM

@Robusto nah, not even. A table has a typical range of sizes. It's broad if the narrowest side is broad. Otherwise it's just long, not broad.

RegDwighт

^ This.

Robusto

In any case, I'm right about the table not being called broad even if it has one dimension considerably greater than the other. And Kris has his head up his ass, sideways.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto yes

But there is a distinction between "long" and "broad". It always depends on context though. I wonder if we can come up with an example of something that IS long OR broad depending on orientation alone.

user19161

@Robusto His words are always interesting, whether they are right or wrong.

KitFox

Bake, motherf*cker, bake.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:37 PM

a square table can only be broad... I don't think it could be narrow. certainly not long.

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Broad opposes narrow, not long.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

a river is long, but can also be narrow or broad.

KitFox

It's a false dichotomy.

user19161

If something has two large dimensions, woudn't you still call it broad?

KitFox

Broad and narrow describe proportions of length:width.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:38 PM

@KitFox yes, but I mean, sometimes you'd use one word to describe something, sometimes another, and it's arbitrary in geometric terms, but in natural language it's not arbitrary at all.

KitFox

Long describes length.

Robusto

So you would call any 2x4 piece of lumber broad, simply because it has one dimension greater than the other? That is simply wrong. Also, what exactly do you mean by "one side much more than the other"? Much more what? Length? You went to great lengths to avoid using that word, it seems. — Robusto 13 secs ago

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'd say for a table, "broad/narrow" describe the shorter side and "short/long" describe the longer side.

KitFox

What? That doesn't make sense.

RegDwighт

I could take my Kalashnikov and I would cover a very broad area, but seen from the enemy's flank it would be rather narrow, so not large by Kris's definition.

KitFox

12:39 PM

That is intriguingly sexy.

Robusto

Kit likes Commies with Kalashnikovs.

RegDwighт

Commie l'faut.

KitFox

Apparently.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

A street can only be broad or narrow along the direction perpendicular to the street. It can only be short or long in the direction of the street.

KitFox

@Robusto They really are a superior weapon.

Robusto

12:41 PM

No. A street can be broad or narrow in the direction of the street.

@KitFox Have you ever fired one?

RegDwighт

Broadway is neither.

Not by Russian standards.

KitFox

@Robusto No.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 OK. I see where you are going there.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto really? So if you're standing at your front door, and a street goes past your house, you'd call that dimension facing you "broad"? even if the house across the street was really close to you, because you lived on a narrow street?

Robusto

@KitFox I have. I didn't care for it.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, I'm saying the opposite.

KitFox

@Robusto I have fired off a Russian bolt-action army rifle though.

RegDwighт

12:43 PM

Then you're on the same page pretending not to be.

user19161

Let's just use whatever word we want and close ELU!

Robusto

Seems we are in violent agreement about streets.

KitFox

One of these:

RegDwighт

I couldn't agree less with the opposite of that statement. Violently.

KitFox

Mosin–Nagant

The Mosin–Nagant (, ISO 9: ) is a bolt-action, internal magazine-fed, military rifle invented under the government commission by Russian and Belgian inventors, and used by the armed forces of the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union and various other nations. History Initial design and trials During the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–78, Russian troops armed with mostly Berdan single-shot rifles engaged Turks with Winchester repeating rifles and suffered heavy casualties. This emphasized to commanders a need to modernize the Imperial army. The Russian Main Artillery Administration undertook the ...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:44 PM

What about a barn? Is its breadth defined in terms of the "front" of the barn, and its length in terms of the side?

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Give up. You couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with that statement.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

am I alone here in having never fired a gun that uses gunpowder?

user19161

@reg I notice there is an edit tags icon if you hover over your mouse somewhere, but I don't see it on other sites. Is it rep dependent. Also, I thought if we edited tags only this way, it would not bump the post but it still did. What is its purpose then?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto What about the long side, though?

RegDwighт

Nagant is more famous for his revolver.

The rifle is generally only referred to by Mosin's name.

KitFox

12:46 PM

We just called it the M91.

Or the Russian bolt-action.

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 no, neither have I.

Robusto