English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

I bought a whole bag of power tools, brand-new, because it was only 2x as much as buying a single cordless drill. Ironically, the only tool I've actually used is the one that I didn't think I'd use at all, the "power driver".

KitFox

Fuck I just spilled hot tea in my lap.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist nah, just a dewalt

KitFox

How is a power driver different than a drill?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox it's smaller and meant for putting in and removing screws.

Matt Эллен

1:26 PM

Is a concrete bit one made from concrete or made for concrete?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен for.

Matt Эллен

ah! thanks :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It typically doesn't require disambiguation because the alternative doesn't make sense :)

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Like a...drill. I am so confused.

Matt Эллен

well, I don't know. power tools are something I don't operate, because where I work they're just too big and at home I don't have any

KitFox

1:28 PM

Must be like a 12v drill driver.

@MattЭллен Come on. You've never popped a goldfish in the NMR?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox yeah. It's like a small drill. But optimized for screwing in screws. Not optimized for power tasks.

Matt Эллен

I was erring towards for

@KitFox me? no, we only have benchtop machines. a goldfish would have to be blended to fit in :D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Concrete is not generally known for its usefulness under high-torque situations

Matt Эллен

I see, that makes sense. I was trying to concoct a scenario where it made sense, but it was quicker to ask!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

from here

KitFox

1:39 PM

I want.

Well, I want french fries.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 what are "connections" in Lego?

KitFox

Are you guys ready to party?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I'm quite excited

MετάEd

@KitFox I did my partying last night.

JSBձոգչ

why are we partying, again?

MετάEd

1:40 PM

You talking about Nano?

Matt Эллен

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ NaNoWriMo party in Writer's Chat today.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен what do you mean?

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox wooo party!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен oh that.

Matt Эллен

1:41 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I guess a "connection" is any way of attaching two pieces together. So a connectionless build is just a pile of legos.

like a house of cards

Matt Эллен

ah, OK.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

don't bump the table

Matt Эллен

the walls of the tower look connected, but I guess not

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

They are 2x2 slope pieces just sitting on their sides

KitFox

1:44 PM

Crazy shit, man.

Matt Эллен

Oh right! on the side :O

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

there's a video in that photostream

secure.flickr.com/photos/legocy/7977937143/in/photostream

JSBձոգչ

i find a connectionless build much less interesting than a connected build

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBձոգչ I dunno. it depends. sometimes you get into a mindset that everything has to be connected, it's refreshing to realize that it doesn't

JSBձոգչ

well... ok. i suppose if you're really worried about your lego mindset, then that could be a relief

KitFox

1:49 PM

laughs

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

from

okay I find this one hilarious:

RegDwighт

The point is, everything that's connected in real life should be connected in the model. It's okay for a fallen tree to lie around, or for a car not to be attached to the road. But a roof not attached to the house, not even by a single stud? No way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

those "berries" are the hairpiece of the disco guy

KitFox

Haha

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт See, you're in the "connected" mindset. You need to break free!

RegDwighт

1:56 PM

Well, that's LEGO for you.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 99% of my pieces are not connected at any given time. So building is all about connecting them, by defintion, because I cannot possibly unconnect them more.

And it's a challenge to make things connected, because your possibilities are limited.

At the high end of the spectrum you have people who only use the traditional ten-odd rectangular bricks. No slopes, no wedges, no round parts.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт Nah. Lots of models are made so that two things fit together but don't strictly connect. eg a playset with a removable roof might not use any studs, just gravity, to keep the roof on.

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 false dichotomy. All of Modular Buildings and Creator sets have removable roofs, and all of them do connect.

KitFox

Gravity. snorts I don't believe in that garbage.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox it's nice in theory

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт No, I'm not talking about just official sets.

RegDwighт

2:02 PM

Exactly.

Robusto

@tchrist They are not bilaterally symmetric, obviously.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт My point is that just because, eg, a house is modular, and the roof isn't strictly "connected", doesn't mean that the model is somehow flawed.

RegDwighт

It costs nothing to add a stud on this side and another one over there.

And anyway, we were actually talking about that crazy tower.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт it might not cost nothing. What if the roof uses a SNOT technique that makes it impractical to connect?

Robusto

For my retirement, I hope to be put out to stud.

It's not just for horses anymore.

RegDwighт

2:05 PM

I could live with a house whose roof is detachable by Godzilla's hand, but I couldn't live in a house where the bricks are laying loose on top of one another and could be moved by a gust of air.

Matt Эллен

because of health and safety regulations. It's bureaucracy gone mad.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт yeah. I agree. Mostly, things should be connected.

RegDwighт

Again, gravity is okay insofar as it is okay in real life.

See fallen tree, car.

Matt Эллен

the universe is holistic. everything is connected

Robusto

@MattЭллен Holistic just means it has holes in it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:07 PM

@RegDwighт when I build, I like to connect things like fallen trees even if they would not be connected in real life. Ideally you can turn my models upside down and nothing falls off.

@MattЭллен yes Jasper

Matt Эллен

@Robusto You're thinking of holy

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Does the same hold true for your supermodels?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto To some extent, yes. If bits fall off, we may have a problem.

Matt Эллен

isn't it the septum that's likely to fall out if they're upright?

KitFox

Oh this poor woman. I'm listening to one of the faculty members get talked down to by my project lead.

She's been stupidly loyal to him, and I can hear the hurt in her voice.

Cerberus

2:17 PM

Hello.

Hmm you are all still here?

KitFox

Geezis, he's got a lot of nerve. She's been faculty many years longer than he has.

@Cerberus Hi.

Matt Эллен

I'm only partly still here.

Cerberus

Hey, you weren't flooded.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox maybe you should cough loudly

KitFox

I don't like her very much.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:18 PM

I'm still here, and no flooding. Just wind.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox oh, well, carry on!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I daresay it's been windier than kit's project lead!

KitFox

She's friendly enough, but numb-er than a hake and classist to boot.

Cerberus

Hmm.

KitFox

Hmm. Not sure how to write that so it reads correctly. More numb than a hake.

Which we say as "nummerna hake."

Cerberus

2:20 PM

I guess only 7 million people are affected by the outages.

Matt Эллен

nummer?

KitFox

Numbber?

Well, you get the idea.

Matt Эллен

numa numa

its_me

Hi, a question regarding proper punctuation — e.g. You can access data over 3G/Wi-Fi. Can there be a space before and after the / (as it would be more readable), or is that wrong?

RegDwighт

13

A: Should I write "comma/period" or "comma / period"?

You should remove the spaces. Unless, of course, you are quoting a poem, in which case the slash indicates a line break: We review a module theme per user. Wikipedia has more info: There are usually no spaces either before or after a slash. Exceptions are in representing the start of ...

Cerberus

2:22 PM

You can add spaces, but that is normally not done.

Matt Эллен

I think it's fine to have spaces

its_me

@RegDwighт Ah, good one. But readability sucks!

Cerberus

I would only use spaces when either member of the pair has internal spaces.

KitFox

@MattЭллен dropbox.com/s/8n2lfoel7ak2xij/hake.wav

Cerberus

@its_me I don't see a problem.

its_me

2:24 PM

@Cerberus makes sense

@Cerberus maybe it's just me... I feel like text is more readable when I add a space before and after the /

Cerberus

I don't feel that it would be a grave error to add spaces, but it is normally not done.

Matt Эллен

to space / not to space
That is the question

RegDwighт

You should read more.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Yeah, there I would use spaces.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus aye, that's what Reg's answer says

@KitFox nummerunahake

KitFox

2:28 PM

How's that for country?

Mitch

@KitFox ok, what's a hake? sounds like some kind of slack-jawed fish.

Cerberus

Right.

KitFox

@Mitch Yep. Actually a deep water fish.

It's cold down there.

Mitch

@KitFox so, pretty numb? or just cold and clammy?

oh

Cerberus

Ooh trouble at Apple!

KitFox

2:29 PM

So the hake get numb. Numb-er than a pounded thumb.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox lol :D Yes, much less refined than last time ;)

user19161

@Mitch Sounds like a haiku.

Cerberus

They fired their IOS chief and somebody else.

Mitch

I just realized that some people smile or laugh sincerely but may not have a sense of humor.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Hmm. That sounds like sarcasm.

@Mitch Smiling is a fear response. It has nothing to do with humor.

Cerberus

2:30 PM

@Mitch But do they smile with their mouth only, or also with their eyes?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox um, last time you sounded refined. this time you sound less refined. /nosarcasm

KitFox

tries to imagine sounding refined

user19161

@KitFox Very deep.

Mitch

@KitFox I think it is a fear response among chimpanzees. Chimps are socially pretty effing weird, not at all like humans.

KitFox

scowls

It is true. stomps little foot

user19161

2:31 PM

@KitFox You must be talking about the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems there.

Mitch

as with all over generalizations, -within- primates. considered outside of primates, yes we're al alike.

Cerberus

Why do you have a little foot?

Do you also have a bigfoot?

Matt Эллен

bigfoot is a myth

KitFox

@Cerberus For when I have little tantrums.

Cerberus

Ah, so that's the secret behind your little foot / bigboot.

Mitch

2:32 PM

@KitFox arches eyebrow

purses lips

scoffs

KitFox

narrows eyes

Mitch

brandishes large random book

KitFox

debates whether to bite or kick @Mitch

Cerberus

The Kama Sutra, really?

Mitch

notices that book is fiction

Cerberus

2:32 PM

That's very "random".

KitFox

See? And in this situation, I smile, which disarms you because I am demonstrating fear.

user19161

@Cerberus I have browsed through that, very erotic. I hope to experiment with someone someday.

Mitch

No it's disarming because it is nice.

KitFox

It's submission.

Mitch

I'll larn you how to smile!

For chimps maybe.

Matt Эллен

2:33 PM

being nice is submissive

Mitch

It's disarming.

KitFox

Observe the occasions when people smile. You'll see I'm right.

Mitch

it's not showing your throat.

I'm not smiling now.

hold on, maybe that supports your argument.

KitFox

pouts

Matt Эллен

face it, Mitch, you're sub.

Mitch

2:34 PM

OK now I'm smiling.

user19161

I see that there are more and more chat users these days who come in to take a look at our exciting discussions.

Mitch

except not sincerely, only for the cheek exercise.

KitFox

Hahaha

user19161

@MattЭллен What is sub?

Mitch

opp of dom

KitFox

2:35 PM

@JasperLoy One who submits.

Mitch

in thr let spk

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy submissive, as opposed to dominant (dom)

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Good luck!

user19161

@KitFox Oh, like in XXX.

Mitch

But back to unfounded arguments, I totally disagree.

user19161

2:36 PM

@Cerberus I will experiment with you!

Cerberus

Put that on your internet dating profile.

Mitch

humans have a totally different -created- culture, than chimps.

Cerberus

Eh no thanks.

KitFox

Shall I engage ad hominem, or is it too early? I feel like I'm winning so it is probably not necessary.

Cerberus

rolls eyes

all six

KitFox

2:36 PM

I don't see what it matters that macaques do it.

People do it too.

Mitch

@KitFox winning? Ha! I let you have a minor point, to crush you when you slip out of arrogrance.

Matt Эллен

picks eyes up and runs away

Mitch

I will not correct that.

KitFox

Hee hee.

I am so hungry right now.

Mitch

OK what is it when a superior smiles?

Cerberus

2:37 PM

Hey I got sixes!

Mitch

They're going to crush you.

Cerberus

That's mean.

KitFox

I should eat a nice leafy green salad, but I think I will have pulled pork.

Mitch

superior human.

KitFox

F*ck my cholesterol.

Matt Эллен

2:38 PM

pulled pork made from lettuce?

Cerberus

When you're young and healthy, does it matter if you eat some bad cholesterol?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus you rolled my way, but I'm a trixy hobbit.

KitFox

I'm neither young nor particularly healthy.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Haha.

Mitch

@Cerberus so you can get a head start on lining your arteries?

Cerberus

2:39 PM

@KitFox You are young!

KitFox

Not really.

user19161

@Cerberus Just not too much.

Mitch

at heart?

not with all that cholesterol.

Cerberus

I would not expect you to be at an age where you run much risk of a cardiac disease?

KitFox

I should eat oatmeal for breakfast instead of pipsqueaks like you.

Cerberus

2:40 PM

You eat us?

KitFox

Yep. For breakfast.

Mitch

lots of cholesterol in human meat.

KitFox

Brains especially.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox you sounded refined in that video you made for grad school.

Mitch

but catching them affords lots of exercise.

so kind of a wash.

Cerberus

2:40 PM

I thought we were more suitable for lunch, but OK.

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I sounded like a flight attendant!

Mitch

@KitFox all variety meats.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox a refined flight attendant!

KitFox

@Mitch (Well, not that brains are meat, but you know.)

Cerberus

@Mitch Did I tell you about this Dutch tv programme where the presenters ate a tiny part of each other's flesh/meat?

Matt Эллен

2:41 PM

yuck!

Cerberus

They said the muscle tissue was all right, much like steak.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus you told everyone in this room.

Cerberus

The fatty tissue was disgusting.

KitFox

I would be much happier to eat the meat of something that I knew was still alive and OK.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Apparently not!

Matt Эллен

2:42 PM

I would prefer to never ever eat humans

Cerberus

Those presenters didn't exactly look happy—more like extremely nervous.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus either not, or I have as good a memory as you

Cerberus

You were probably absent.

I knew I should have taken down all names.

Mitch

@KitFox they fry up like... moment to stifle nausea ... pate.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus where did they get it? surgically removed? or what

@MattЭллен meh. humans are made of meat!

I say eating humans should be fair game.

Cerberus

2:43 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, surgically removed.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 humans are human. This is a line for me.

Mitch

@Cerberus No. that is nasty. I hesitate to ask... what part did they each give up? a little finger? the inside of the thigh?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен your mind is shackled by arbitrary societal norms!

Cerberus

They were looking at each other as they were eating each other's flesh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Cooked?

Mitch

2:45 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 you should be shackled by chains instead. Oh the wonderful chains!

Cerberus

@Mitch It was really, really tiny bits, like a few mm. One guy's buttock, the other guy's stomach.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, by a chef.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, really. The kinds of diseases you could get. Ick.

@Cerberus OK. Only in dutchland. Maybe Sweden. They'll eat anything.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Honestly it's not that different from eating any other animal. It only feels odd because it's not on the List of Acceptable Animals for Eating.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 these same norms that stop me from stabbing everyone and stealing all their stuffs

Cerberus

Of course we can't be 100 % sure that it was real, but it was a fairly long time ago, and I could find no rumours at all about its being fake.

Mitch

2:46 PM

@MattЭллен stupid stupid norms.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Of course.

@Mitch So be careful.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it's very different from eating other animals because no other animals are human. over generalisation is bad.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен Nah, that's different. That's the "do not harm people" rule. I still abide by that one. But eating meat is a separate norm. If nobody was "harmed"....

RegDwighт

Why are we recreating the conversation from the Frying Pan?

Duplication of effort.

Matt Эллен

because the frying pan is over there

Mitch

2:47 PM

@RegDwighт RIght, it's like eating your own.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think what the surgeons did was illegal, because that could be taken as "harming", but the eating itself was not. Perhaps some kind of complicity.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 the human being as a concept is harmed.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Because it's funny?

RegDwighт

When people keep telling you "it's gross" you keep hearing "it's funny"?

Cerberus

I need to go.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:48 PM

@MattЭллен What if a person who was dying of an injury said to you "Go ahead and eat my perfectly healthy muscle tissue, I won't need it after I'm dead"? That is intrinsically wrong? or just icky?

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Synonyms!

Matt is so principled.

Next thing he's going to forbid fraud!

Bye all!

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it is wrong to eat another human. People are not food.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 dumb. an injury is not good for the meat in the rest of the animal (releases chemicals which will alter the taste in the intact flesh).

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus CU!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен Sure they are food. They're made of meat and water and fat and other edible things.

Mitch

2:50 PM

That's the principle of hall/kosher slaughtering, so the animal is not nervous when you kill it. so it'll taste better.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 no, they're not. arsenic is made out of protons, neutrons and electrons, just like protein. it's all the same!

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 We don't eat lions and tigers and bears.

(do we?)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Let's say the injury was that a giant piece of hurricane-borne debris ripped off a man's legs, instantly. In the last few seconds before he loses consciousness he implores you to eat his legs. or at least, offers.

@Mitch Because they taste bad and are hard to kill.

Mitch

@MattЭллен exactly, and there's way too much arsenic in our livers nowadays. everything but the liver is fair game.

user19161

Is the N word very offensive?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:52 PM

@JasperLoy Nitrogen?

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 hunting should be a level playing field. bow and arrow or maybe just a knife.

user19161

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I watched a video clip where this person with tics kept saying the N word. I hope people know she has some disorder.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch That's not the point though. The point is that meat-eating is meat-eating. drawing distinctions about which kinds of meat are allowed and which aren't is arbitrary.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 you can live as a pig, if you like. I shall live as a human.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Some people would never, ever, (knowingly) eat bugs. But bugs are made of meat. well, the insides of bugs.

Mitch

2:53 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 good point. when I get meat at the grocery store, I have -no- cluse what animal it came from, it's just taste good.

but thinking about that, I don't feel so good now.

KitFox

Aww.

Speaking of meat, I'm off to get some for lunch. Someday soon though, I am going vegetarian.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен You can make arbitrary distinctions about which kinds of critters are food and which aren't. I'm not suggesting we all go out and start killing humans for food. But the taboo of cannibalism is interesting to me because aside from the murder aspect, it's rather random.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it's not totally arbitrary. It would be weirder if it were someone you knew, as opposed to a human farm.... or if they were ugly.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Have you read "Stranger in a Strange Land"?

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it's not random. People are not "just like all the other animals". this is not random, unless you remove the humanity from humans.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:56 PM

@Mitch Anyway, it's true that it's maybe "weirder" (whatever that means) if it's someone you know. But then people feel the same way about eating animals they've bonded with, even if those animals are specifically raised for food.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I've read all sorts of things that I can't remember. I'm sure I first read the word 'grok' there (for which I'm sure there's the nugget of an ELU question to discover an already existing sufficient word for), but no I don't get your reference.

did the jesus character eat people?

Matt Эллен

people ate him...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен What, precisely, is specifically "human" about a man's leg, ripped off in a cruel accident?

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 where it came from

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 you're being too distanced. you wouldn't eat -anything- cruelly and violently ripped off like that.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 and seriously, it's pretty supportable to not want to eat 'one of us'.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:59 PM

@MattЭллен But so what? See: I draw the line at hunting people. But I don't draw the line at eating them. Unless they were hunted for food. The point is that I raise humans above other animals in the category of intentional harm: I feel it's okay to kill other animals for use as food.

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