English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Matt Ellen Д

12:00 PM

@z7sgѪ it's OK! the blank won't be in the transcript and far more people read that.

I hope

Except now everyone knows something has been removed. I just can't win!

KitΘδς

I think the blank stays in the transcript, doesn't it?

Matt Ellen Д

@KitΘδς if you look at where you've deleted pics, it does not.

z7sg Ѫ

There's nothing in the transcript there but if you read my posts it's clear somebody removed something.

Rhŵdri

Quick, someone replace the transcript with a picture of kittehs playing.

z7sg Ѫ

I think you will get away with it this time though, let's move on from this and restart the EL&U birthday bash!

KitΘδς

12:04 PM

I can see where I removed a picture last night, though.

Matt Ellen Д

@Kit I like your birthday fox :DD

KitΘδς

Thanks! I dressed for the party!

@Rhdri Good Morning!

Matt Ellen Д

@KitΘδς I cannot

KitΘδς

Oh. Interesting.

Rhŵdri

Morning to you, too @Kit

FallenAngelEyes

12:05 PM

oh, neat, happy birthday EL&U :)

and now I sleep, g'nite all!

Rhŵdri

@FallenAngelEyes Timezones are such fun! Goodnight

KitΘδς

@FallenAngelEyes Good night!

Mr. Shiny and New

Ok so what's the deal with non-ascii characters hanging off the ends of everyone's usernames now?

KitΘδς

@MrShinyandNew Birthday celebration.

12:07 PM

Cake?

@MrShinyandNew We're χάοτικ

Matt Ellen Д

Night @FallenAngelEyes

z7sg Ѫ

Kit made Cerberus go Oooh! Ahhhh!

Rhŵdri

(see also the Meta question)

KitΘδς

12:08 PM

@z7sgѪ Do you have some Cake?

Matt Ellen Д

I have a selection of sandwiches

z7sg Ѫ

I posted a picture of some cake?

Matt Ellen Д

you posted a picture of image not found

z7sg Ѫ

I will have cake at lunch though.

Matt Ellen Д

woohoo!

Rhŵdri

12:11 PM

Hang on, isn't this a dupe again?

3

Q: Quoting a question at the end of a sentence which is itself a question

If my sentence is a question and ends with a quote of a question, where exactly do I put a question mark? Did she ask, "Is it raining"? Did she ask, "Is it raining?"? Did she ask, "Is it raining?"

z7sg Ѫ

Yes I voted to close that.

Matt Ellen Д

a related question is linked in a comment

Rhŵdri

5

Q: Does the word after a question mark start with a capital letter?

Should I write it like this? Or perhaps like this? Should I write it like this? or perhaps like this? What about after an exclamation mark or semicolon?

punctuation capitalization

KitΘδς

►

Rhŵdri

Hmm. Not obvious, that one.

KitΘδς

12:15 PM

No, there's one somewhere about punctuation in quotations.

I can't find it though.

drm65

@MattEllenД This is the oldest question after the migrated one:

10

Q: When do I use "can" or "could"?

When should I use can? When should I use could? What is right under what context?

word-choice tense politeness subjunctive-mood

Aug. 5, 2010

KitΘδς

@z7sgѪ He was being polite.

Rhŵdri

@KitΘδς Isn't it the one given as related?

Matt Ellen Д

@drm65 Yeah, I figured you meant 5th August, not 8th May. Your date format confused me :)

Rhŵdri

Mmm. Cake.

Mr. Shiny and New

12:18 PM

Ok so I tried to be cool like everyone else and edit my profile's display name, but it says I can only use a-z, 0-9, etc.

Rhŵdri

Aw, they've cottoned on to us.

KitΘδς

@MrShinyandNew Edit your display name, not your username.

Matt Ellen Д

@KitΘδς and, not doubt, honest!

KitΘδς

@Rhŵdri No, that's not the same thing.

Matt Ellen Д

I'll be back to the party later :)

Mr. Shiny and New

12:21 PM

In fact it would seem that my name already violates the rules (because I have a . in it)

@Kit

@kit I don't seem to have a username

just a display name

KitΘδς

Well, they must have cottoned to us, like @Rhdri said.

I copied and pasted mine yesterday and it worked. They must have put us on lockdown for straining the system.

Mr. Shiny and New

Rats! Now I can never be as cool as the rest of you!

z7sg Ѫ

Arrgh I feel hunted! I knew those pitchforks would cause trouble!

Rhŵdri

@KitΘδς Poot. That seems unnecessarily restrictive in the Age of Unicode.

It's like the Age of Unicorns, only visible. And less pink.

Mr. Shiny and New

Ok, turns out their error message is wrong

Rhŵdri

12:27 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I can't imagine how that could happen (he says, quietly amending an error code in his own program)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I can put chinese chars in my display name just fine. Just not ♘ (U+2658: white chess knight)

Yeah, @R

KitΘδς

@MrShinyandNew Haozi? Is that right?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

er, @Rhdri, I dunno how that would be either...........

user19161

@z7sgѪ Remember, yesterday Matt and I were suspended from chat, so we will be extra careful!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kit it's An Yu, they represent my two kids' Chinese names

KitΘδς

12:29 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ah, so it's the programmers fault.

z7sg Ѫ

@JasperLoy What's wrong?

KitΘδς

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Peace and I don't know Yu, unless it's the fish one.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I didn't know you are Chinese, I am too by race.

KitΘδς

@z7sgѪ They got suspended for cussing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm not Chinese, actually :)

user19161

12:30 PM

@z7sgѪ Oh, I didn't see the removed stuff if you are asking about just now.

z7sg Ѫ

@KitΘδς Yes I remember that, tsk tsk!

@JasperLoy That's OK it was a mistake rather than anything dodgy.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 OK, your wife must be then. My faulty logic!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

宇 means "Universe". Chosen to match 安 because they have the same radical on top.

z7sg Ѫ

I told @MattEllen that people would invent naughty things to go in the space.

KitΘδς

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Roof radical, right?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:31 PM

@KitΘδς yes

KitΘδς

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I like it, that's really nice.

How old are they?

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I didn't know people chose names to match radicals, only meaning and sound.

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy It's kind of like choosing English names that start with the same letter.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My kids' Chinese names first character was chosen by their monther's family creed (each generation is supposed to use the next character in the sequence). So they are 正安 (age 3) and 正宇 (age 16 mo).

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Same age as Kit and JSbang. They have two boys each 1 and 3.

user19161

12:35 PM

And I have no kids, and don't intend to have any even if married.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitΘδς Yeah there are lots of different conventions for choosing names. Matching the physical appearance, counting the strokes for luck, matching sounds, generational names, etc

user19161

@kit I almost didn't know you were here since you changed your picture!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Well, my advice is always: Kids are lots of fun but lots of work. Don't have them if you don't want them.

KitΘδς

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Agreed.

user19161

But of course I'm jumping the gun here, still no gf!

KitΘδς

12:37 PM

Zheng. First month of the lunar year.

Took me a bit, but I got it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitΘδς It also means "straight" or "true" (I think that is the more common meaning in Chinese"

KitΘδς

Oh yes. That's right, there's a word like zhengxin or something that means "true-hearted," I think.

My Chinese is rusty.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitΘδς It can be pronounced first (high) tone or fourth (falling) tone, the fourth tone is far more common.

@KitΘδς mine too. I am taking a break from my studies for the summer and I can almost literally feel it evaporating from my head.

user19161

@KitΘδς I think that is zhenxin, it's another character.

KitΘδς

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Oh, I see that now.

I thought it looked familiar.

user19161

12:41 PM

But the zheng(first sound) is for first month and the zheng(fourth sound) is for straight.

KitΘδς

I wish I knew how to enter the tone diacriticals on my keyboard.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy There does seem to be some overlap between the meaning of 正 and 真

user19161

I don't bother to find out. I don't use Chinese anymore. But I must remember to type Japanese and not the shorter version.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If you want a quick-and-dirty tool for making pinyin tones, I have one here: shinyandnew.ca/pinyin_fixer.html

It's not great but it sorta works

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy You are right. It's 真心。

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:43 PM

type in tones as numbers and it will auto-tone you. It will also convert v into the u with two dots

so nv3hai2zi3 -> nǚháizĭ

KitΘδς

zhēnxīn

Hey, not bad.

That your macro?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitΘδς Do you mean, did I make that? Yes. Be warned: there is a bug somewhere that can cause all your text to get eaten.

So... don't write long compositions there :)

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Right, though the last sound is usually unstressed in ordinary speech.

KitΘδς

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Right.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's all javascript on the client side so no worries about me stealing the data or anything.

KitΘδς

12:45 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I think I'd only ever use it in chat anyway.

user19161

Luckily we can change avatar as often as we wish, not like username.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Yeah, I know. I just wanted to demonstrate it. (But I guess in Taiwan they DO stress the tones on the second char? And not everyone agrees about whether you should leave the tone off or not? Sigh. :) )

Anyway, I must get going. 再见!

user19161

zaijian!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

(btw: if any of you are interested, but haven't yet done so, vote on the Chinese Language SE in Area 51.....)

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 — Are you transliterating 安宇 as Yasuhiro or Anyu?

KitΘδς

12:50 PM

@Robusto Anyu.

He's using hànzi.

user19161

@KitΘδς Your new fox looks very cute!

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy I put on some party clothes!

user19161

@KitΘδς He probably knows but wants to chip in some Japanese there too.

Robusto

@JasperLoy — Anyu is a Japanese transliteration as well. Rendering 安宇 in English from Chinese would be An Yu, I think. (Two words.)

KitΘδς

汉字

@Robusto Well，yes, two words, one for each kid.

user19161

12:52 PM

This room seems to contain all the languages of the world.

Robusto

I shouldn't be in here. I have a deadline ... stop me!

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy This room contains all the world.

@Robusto Go away, big red monster!

user19161

@KitΘδς True, after all we are representative of the world.

JSBᾶngs

what is this? @Kit is now an animated fox?

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs I'm animated?

user19161

12:53 PM

@JSBᾶngs A birthday fox, a party animal.

KitΘδς

Oh, you mean cartoony.

JSBᾶngs

@JasperLoy party animal. that makes the most sense

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs I put on my birthday suit!

JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς yes. animated was wrong. i should have said cartoon

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Indeed, in this case literally and metaphorically.

JSBᾶngs

12:54 PM

@KitΘδς well, i'm sure that was exciting for everyone who saw it

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs Hahaha. I mean birthday clothes, of course.

JSBᾶngs

3

Q: "Wear Uniform Clothes"

If I ask a pupil about what clothes he wears to school, which is correct ? Do you wear a uniform to go to school ? Do you wear uniform clothes to go to school ?

word-choice sentence

Rhŵdri

@KitΘδς Ah. You put on your glad rags. I'll stop averting my eyes, then.

JSBᾶngs

why does this have four upvotes? it's a pretty stupid question

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs People are stupid?

Rhŵdri

12:57 PM

@JSBᾶngs There are people who will upvote anything. See 3i for evidence :-)

Robusto

Removing myself from temptation. Laterz.

JSBᾶngs

gah. so far this morning it's been three downvotes and a close vote

the only good question this week was from @simoncha, that one about loss of -ed

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Maybe because uniform clothes is also acceptable and has a slightly different meaning?

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs Oh, I missed that. I should go have a look.

I was thinking of posting a question about the -tion formation, but haven't really solidified it yet.

user19161

Uniform clothes could be seen as a compound noun, but it is unnecessary.

user19161

12:59 PM

But it was unnecessary to add confusion to the answer, so I omitted that.

Rhŵdri

I'm not really here. I'm working. Honest.

user19161

@Rhŵdri No skiving in chat!

JSBᾶngs

the last question i wanted to ask here was shown to be a dup by the auto-suggester as soon as i started writing it

so i guess that was a success, since i got an answer right away

Rhŵdri

@JasperLoy Just skivvying outside chat.

@JSBᾶngs I'm sorry, you're just too erudite for this site.

user19161

@Rhŵdri I just learnt that yesterday; it was in the transcript!

KitΘδς

1:01 PM

@JSBᾶngs Was it about boobs or poop?

user19161

@KitΘδς Could it also be boob or poops?

JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς 'cos of course heaven forfend that we learn about anything other than boobs or poop in this chat :P

user19161

I mean boob could be an uncountable noun and poop could be countable too.

JSBᾶngs

i'm pretty sure boobs are countable

i mean, look at 'em. one, two. there they are, all two of them

it's not even hard to count

user19161

For example, there was much boob on the left but not on the right.

user19161

1:03 PM

There are two poops in this room, one on the left and one on the right.

KitΘδς

Is this a poop I see before me, handle toward my boob?

@JSBᾶngs Well, you have learned that I am a cyborg sent from the 25th century.

user19161

So boob would mean something like fat.

JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς that counts as learning about boobs

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs LOL

guffaw even.

user19161

Is there any way to turn a photo into a cartoon?

FallenAngelEyes

1:06 PM

...So I decided not to go to sleep and I'm wondering what kind of conversation I've come back to.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes >_>

FallenAngelEyes

@JasperLoy <_<

Rhŵdri

@FallenAngelEyes It's... a learning experience.

KitΘδς

@FallenAngelEyes ...let's all get naked and have an orgy.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes But you did sleep just now right?

KitΘδς

1:08 PM

Oh! Wait!

FAE is back! Everybody resume normal conversations.

looks innocent

user19161

@KitΘδς Who is FAE? Careful, you don't want what happened to me and Matt yesterday.

FallenAngelEyes

@KitΘδς Woo! Though preferably not with poop. Not really big on the whole coprophilia thing.

@JasperLoy Nay, changed my mind

KitΘδς

JSBᾶngs

@FallenAngelEyes i see plenty of poop when i'm at home with my boys. i don't need any more of it now

FallenAngelEyes

@KitΘδς You very nearly owed me a monitor. I was drinking when you posted that.

JSBᾶngs

1:11 PM

BTW, @Kit is your 3yr old potty-trained?

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs Yes, starting a little after his 3rd birthday, so about four months ago maybe?

JSBᾶngs

we're trying with ours right now, and he doesn't like it

KitΘδς

We tried with training pants, then just put him in underwear, and brought changes of clothes everywhere.

He caught on to the peeing part really fast, but the pooping took longer.

He loves peeing outside.

It probably helped that we bribed him with jellybeans.

Rhŵdri

On that edifying note, I'm off to get lunch. See you in a bit.

KitΘδς

You can hardly blame a kid for not liking it. It's not nearly as convenient as a diaper.

Another helpful thing was to bring the potty in the car, so he always had a place to pee. We still do that on long trips.

And, peeing on the potty in the car was really exciting.

JSBᾶngs

1:15 PM

ours doesn't want to pee. we put him on the potty, and he holds it. then he pees the moment we let him get up

KitΘδς

What about letting him stand up and pee on toilet paper targets?

That could be fun.

Or bribing with jellybeans.

JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς i hadn't thought of doing targets. he does like to pee standing up. when we let him run around naked, there's a particular spot on the yard where he loves to pee

FallenAngelEyes

@KitΘδς Haha what

JSBᾶngs

he does get a reward whenever he goes in the pot

user19161

Let him pee on the poo and poo into the pee.

user19161

1:17 PM

Then he can peep at his poop too.

KitΘδς

Also, we used very subtle psychology about his baby brother wearing diapers...

"Time to change your baby brother's diaper, then we can change your diaper."

JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς actually, we're doing both kids at the same time. the baby brother has taken to it more quickly, actually, but i think it's by accident. he just doesn't get self conscious like the older brother does, pees quickly, and then goes on his way

user19161

That is not subtle, just illogical...

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs You make me feel terribly inadequate.

But then again, maybe that's difficult for the older sibling—his baby brother is "better" at self-control than he is.

JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς huh? why? you already have one child potty-trained. we have none.

@KitΘδς i thought of this, but i'm not sure how much it affects him. there is very little evidence of sibling rivalry between them

KitΘδς

1:20 PM

@JSBᾶngs My youngest is not nearly ready for potty-training.

@JSBᾶngs It can be so difficult to tell with a young child.

user19161

@fallen But you did sleep last night didn't you? And I remember today you have to give some sworn statement.

FallenAngelEyes

@JasperLoy Already did that this morning

JSBᾶngs

i actually don't think that the younger one is better at self-control. he has less control, which means he just pees everywhere, which happens to include in the pot. his older brother can actually hold it, but he holds it at the wrong time

FallenAngelEyes

And I have not slept yet.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Why? Feeling too unwell?

FallenAngelEyes

1:22 PM

@JasperLoy I'm trying to stay awake to flip my sleep sched around.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes OK good. Slow and easy.

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs What about giving him something to do, like read a book or solve a puzzle, to help him forget he's on the pot?

JSBᾶngs

@JasperLoy lol. i originally read that as "feeling too unwed?"

user19161

@KitΘδς he's

JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς that's what we do. we read, and sing, and let him play with his toy laptop

oh, well, we just started

KitΘδς

1:23 PM

That's too bad. I'm sure he'll get it.

JSBᾶngs

he's getting better, and he now understands what he's supposed to do. i suspect it will just take a while for him to relax and get it going

KitΘδς

I don't know too many adults that wear diapers.

user19161

@KitΘδς Old people.

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy Hard-core gamers.

user19161

@KitΘδς I did not know that. That's too much.

FallenAngelEyes

1:25 PM

@JSBᾶngs "I desperately need to stay awake, I'm too single!"

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes No, I know you have a bf.

FallenAngelEyes

@KitΘδς Naw, catheters and colostomy bags, that's the hardcore gamer's toolbox.

KitΘδς

@FallenAngelEyes Touché.

JSBᾶngs

@FallenAngelEyes everyone knows that sleeplessness is the key to getting a mate

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs That's how I met my husband.

user19161

1:27 PM

@JSBᾶngs I am lost...

JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς QED

user19161

No QED.

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy Yes QED.

user19161

minus one.

KitΘδς

What's the problem with that logic?

user19161

1:28 PM

@KitΘδς I am just lost, more elaboration.

KitΘδς

6 mins ago, by JSBᾶngs

@JasperLoy lol. i originally read that as "feeling too unwed?"

4 mins ago, by FallenAngelEyes

@JSBᾶngs "I desperately need to stay awake, I'm too single!"

2 mins ago, by JSBᾶngs

@FallenAngelEyes everyone knows that sleeplessness is the key to getting a mate

2 mins ago, by KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs That's how I met my husband.

2 mins ago, by JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς QED

Easy as pie.

Understand now?

user19161

No, but it's OK. My brain is very different.

JSBᾶngs

@JasperLoy more likely is that your brain is far too normal for this chat

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Rather far too abnormal.

user19161

As you can see from my elephant paraprosdokian answer deleted.

user19161

1:33 PM

5

Q: What is funny in this paraprosdokian?

I was reading the wiki page about paraprosdokians when I come across this sentence. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas, how he got in my pajamas, I don't know. What is funny about it?

meaning figures-of-speech humor

user19161

For 10k users.

user19161

A paraprosdokian is funny because the second part causes the reader to reinterpret the first part.

Reading shot an elephant in my pyjamas initially would suggest that the author shot a real elephant while he was wearing pyjamas. However on reading the second part how he got in my pyjamas, one sees that the elephant was meant to be inside the pyjamas, in which case shot an elephant in my pyjamas could mean ejaculated (a large amount of) semen inside my pyjamas, since the elephant is a large animal. I don't know then refers to the fact that when he arose from sleep in the morning, he had no …

user19161

Copied for non 10k users.

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy Wow. That's an interesting answer.

user19161

@KitΘδς Of course, I am a very interesting person.

KitΘδς

1:37 PM

I think I need breakfast. Anyone else up for it?

user19161

@KitΘδς Go for it, I just had dinner.

JSBᾶngs

@RegDwight the following question could really use some enlightenment from a German speaker

6

Q: Why are there 3 different ways to pronounce "oo"?

My German colleagues were laughing at the way I pronounce google, and it led to a discussion. With words like google, yahoo, poodle and loose, the oo has a sound similar to the German ü sound. However with words like good and book, it is more similar to how Germans pronounce a oo sound. For wo...

pronunciation

i'm looking forward to next week, which is when my ELU rep will finally exceed my SO rep

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Good!

KitΘδς

1:54 PM

►

Hmm. Turns out that that video is more suggestive than I remember.

The lyrics are too.

JSBᾶngs

um, yeah

NSFW

KitΘδς

So ignore that.

Marthaª

@MattEllenД I was going off this post from Michael Myers:

2 days ago, by Michael Myers

Friday is English.SE's first birthday. Who's planning the party?

KitΘδς

I just thought the "I'm so excited" part was appropriate.

@JSBᾶngs Maybe I should delete it?

JSBᾶngs

@KitΘδς naw, it's not that bad

i'm just not going to watch the rest of it

user19161

1:57 PM

What do you guys think of my edit? It's not clear what the OP wants but I tried to guess.

user19161

1

Q: Meaning of "... so much of what ..."

I am getting confused about the meaning of the following sentence. The talk about the end of ideology only confirmed intellectuals from these countries in their opinion about the pervasiveness of the ethnocentric bias in so much of what passes for sociology in their Western world. What exac...

meaning-in-context

KitΘδς

@JSBᾶngs That's probably for the best. I don't want you to get the wrong idea.

user19161

@KitΘδς The first few seconds already suggest that it is NSFW.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…