The h Bar

0celo7

04:00

and they do

HDE 226868

@ACuriousMind Oh, sorry about that.

Although I'm not Canadian.

ACuriousMind

@HDE226868 Better

0celo7

too late...you ruined it

@HDE226868 I accept this now

carry on

HDE 226868

On that note, good night/day/morning/whatever, all.

ACuriousMind

I'll take one good whatever, thanks

0celo7

04:00

OTOH, ACM says eh a lot

@ACuriousMind lel

5AM treating you well?

Ghost

@0celo7 an example is the repeated calling me 'satan' based on your incorrect interpretation of the avatar I used to have (which I explained) - especially after I expressed my annoyance at being called that

0celo7

So no one will tell me how I troll. Great.

Kyle Kanos

Another true work story: I've been there for about 2 months now and have yet to actually meet my boss

0celo7

@KyleKanos Where do you work?

Are you allowed to say?

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 I've said "eh" 27 times in this chat. You've said it 48 times. Checkmate.

Ghost

04:02

@0celo7 just gave you an example

Kyle Kanos

@0celo7 At a major US bank

0celo7

@ACuriousMind ...*gulp*

My sister in law is a snow man

ACuriousMind

@Ghost I think he might have you on ignore.

0celo7

But I am not

Ghost

@ACuriousMind oh well, no great loss

0celo7

04:03

@ACuriousMind Oh, I do.

"Goodbye"

Ghost

he can give the trolling, but not take it - he is immature

0celo7

I'm a German-Czech-American

ACuriousMind

@KyleKanos Well...is that good or bad?

0celo7

What if his boss is a killer :o

Kyle Kanos

@ACuriousMind I find it funny

0celo7

04:05

sounds bad for morale

Kyle Kanos

I talk to him on MS Lync most every day

Anyways....it's late so I'm going to bed now

0celo7

how do you know he's not a brain in a jar

Kyle Kanos

Good seeing you all, see you in ~2 weeks when Turkey Day comes

(and I have an off day)

ACuriousMind

@KyleKanos See ya, don't work too hard!

0celo7

@KyleKanos bye ;_;

ACuriousMind

04:07

Which of the unlabeled days in my calendar is Turkey Day for you 'Muricans?

0celo7

@ACuriousMind Last Thursday of the 11th Monat

Ghost

Well, @ACuriousMind have a great day and even wish that immature troll friend of yours (0celo7) a good day

0celo7

@ACuriousMind Can we ever have a serious conversation about trolling?

Is it possible

ACuriousMind

@Ghost Likewise. (Although I think I'm gonna head to bed soon)

user54412

@0celo7 4th Thursday, actually

0celo7

04:10

@ChrisWhite Is it not the last this year?

Are they not equal this year?

user54412

this year it is

0celo7

Ok, thanks for that vindication.

You can delete those posts now.

Baseless attack...

But in general, it is the vierte ...Thurstag, @ACuriousMind.

Whatever Thursday is :)

Dönertag?

Durstag

not Dienstag

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 What exactly do you mean?

It's Donnerstag

0celo7

@ACuriousMind Dönertag was p. close

ACuriousMind

Both English and German variant derive from Thor, the god of thunder.

0celo7

04:13

@ACuriousMind I know

I could not think of the right word

Now I know what thunder is, too

Or rather I remember

Losing my Deutsch Kred hier

user54412

Donner and Blitzen sound like far more awesome reindeer once you realize what their names mean.

0celo7

@NeuroFuzzy You know, the integral is supposedly an S. Maybe people got tired of writing $\int L\mathrm{d}t$ and just kept the integral.

ACuriousMind

@ChrisWhite ...and yet we get the story about the one with the red nose, not them. So sad.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind I don't see why I'm a troll

@ACuriousMind Are there any good German rappers anymore? I recall Bushido and Sido back in the say...

But they were mostly to shock our parents.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 I am so not into rap that I can't answer that.

0celo7

04:18

@ACuriousMind Unkultiertes Schweinchen!

That probably makes 0 sense

I don't even care anymore

ACuriousMind

It...is an odd choice for an insult.

Also, it should be unkultiviert

0celo7

@ACuriousMind That dawned on me

but this way it has better flow :)

My memory is pretty good.

Sido := Super Intelligent Drug Victim

skull petrol

Do German rappers rap in English :P

Joke^

0celo7

No, I don't think so.

Not the stuff I used to listen to as a confused German-American teenager.

Didn't want my dad understanding it and getting upset.

(probably)

skull petrol

Shouldn't that be Americian-German teen?

ACuriousMind

04:24

@0celo7 I don't think you're a troll. But you have a tendency to make ill-timed jokes, and you tend to not let things go, like, at all. That puts some people off. However, I think most of the times you were called troll it was in jest.

0celo7

@skullpetrol I considered myself to be German.

Seriously.

skull petrol

:O

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 How was it supposed to shock your parents if they didn't understand it? :P

0celo7

It's hard speaking German most of the day, having only German friends, speaking German with one parent, going to German stores, etc. and still thinking you're American. I did that for 6-7 years.

@ACuriousMind Other people's parents. And my mother.

And you know how kids are.

We watched Happy Tree Friends at 3 in the morning because bloods and guts were cool.

We played GTA because yay killing people.

skull petrol

Wow! 7 yrs is a long time.

0celo7

04:26

Although when Eric's dad saw me playing GTA LCS on his PSP...oh boy that was bad.

Those were some good times.

@skullpetrol I think it's closer to six...but yeah.

If you count my birth year I've been in Germany approaching 8 years.

Ask @ACuriousMind, I sound like a German who's lived abroad for a while.

(When speaking German, my English is flawless.)

ACuriousMind

He does

0celo7

Rather, I sound like a Pfälzer who's lived abroad for a while ;)

ACuriousMind

No t there

0celo7

srs

how do you tell

I never could do that

@ACuriousMind how do you tell

ACuriousMind

How do you tell how English words are written?

One just has to learn it

0celo7

04:32

Logic and reason.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 lol

0celo7

@ACuriousMind Now that I think about it, I would not have written Pfaltz

@ACuriousMind see, now you're laughing

@ACuriousMind "you tend to not let things go, like, at all."

Example?

Satan does not count. He was asking for that one.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Telling you to stop it is not "asking for it".

0celo7

@ACuriousMind I see we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

Other than that.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Well, everytime someone deletes something you keep asking what was deleted, and everytime someone says something you don't understand you keep asking even after being told an equivalent of "Don't worry about it"

The most egregious example is the whole thing with the Duffman, though :P

0celo7

04:41

@ACuriousMind 1) I just really want to know what was deleted 2) if it was worth mentioning it's worth worrying about

@ACuriousMind I disagree, naturally.

He's the one who keeps coming back for more.

ACuriousMind

(and I just realized that allusion is lost on you, the Duffman is a character from the Simpsons)

@0celo7 ...and you keep giving it. It takes two to tango.

0celo7

And why is it so foreign to you that I want to know things that I don't understand?

@ACuriousMind Personally, I enjoy the tango.

@ACuriousMind Never watched that show, never will.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 It's not. But "Don't worry about it" is polite phrasing for "I can't be bothered to explain this now". Asking once is alright, asking thrice is a bit annoying.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind If you can't be bothered then you shouldn't have mentioned it. Or say "I can't be bothered."

@ACuriousMind Are you speaking from experience here?

I will admit that I don't have a good sense for when I'm annoying people.

Hence why taking to profs is really cool on the one hand but stressful on the other

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Well, see, that's an allowed attitude to have, but it's kinda hard to calibrate it well because phrased like that it comes across as if you think the other person owes you an explanation.

0celo7

04:53

@ACuriousMind I can see that.

Ghost

@0celo7 I only come back not to be in the presence of you, but to see what physics discussions are happening... YOU are the one that started with the satan crap - every time... even when I explained to you, you kept on going like some troll kid

ACuriousMind

In any case, I'm going to bed now. I really should've taken more courses this semester, this empty schedule isn't good for me...

0celo7

@ACuriousMind Poor Bajoran

ACuriousMind

...then again, all the courses I already had taken or they were boring. So, good night

0celo7

@ACuriousMind PDE CLASSES

AND GR

Time to crank out a paper.

yuggib

07:54

@ACuriousMind Obviously they actually derived from planets, and their related gods...so we latins have the correct thunder god :-P

not that icelandic with a ridicolous hammer

DanielSank

Make some progress on Van Kampen's stochastic processes book.

yuggib

09:26

@ACuriousMind :-D but @KyleKanos may not like it...

Tim Krul

11:13

@DavidZ A NOTE FOR YOU
If you'd inform at least before deleting the answer, that would be great. I dont know why you are doing so, but please stop deleting my answer one after other. After all, OP found it useful, and if you think its giving complete answer, I could rephrase the answer. But you didn't even wait for me to respond and deleted two answers straight away. Please respond ...

Slereah

Welp

Time to do some BIBLIOGRAPHY

First let's pull all the CTC papers from Arxiv!

Slereah

11:44

Hey, a CTC paper by Carroll!

ACuriousMind

12:25

@yuggib Your Jupiter is such a weakling that he had to split the job with Summanus ;)

Bastian Treichler

12:38

@ACuriousMind have you read (or are you aware of) the paper by David Deutsch Quantum Theory of Probability and Decisions, in which he claims that the probability axiom of QM can be deduced from the other axioms?

ACuriousMind

@BastianTreichler Nope. What do you mean by "probability axiom", though? The Born rule?

Bastian Treichler

@ACuriousMind well I'm just quoting Deutsch, but I think he means the axiom The probability to observe the particle at point x at time t is equal to $||\Psi(x,t)||^2$

at least in my QM course there was such an axiom in wave mechanics

but I'm not sure if he means that, after all, this axiom sounds very Copenhagenish and AFAIK Deutsch is a many-worlds proponent

Slereah

that is the Born rule, yes

It is not tied to any interpretation

It is just what is observed experimentally

Although you could probably nitpick about the word "probability"

But from a frequentist perspective it is a probability

Bastian Treichler

oh okay.. but the rule was established by the Copenhagen guys, right? or in the same paper?

yuggib

@ACuriousMind Well Jupiter was immensely powerful, so he let Summanus have a little bit of glory :-D

Slereah

12:48

I think the Born rule is older?

Born rule is 1926

about the same time as Copenhagen

But not by the same guys

Bastian Treichler

@Slereah ok never mind Copenhagen interpretation. Born rule then. Deutsch claims to derive it from the other axioms. Lubos Motl thinks that's bullshit: motls.blogspot.ch/2012/04/…

David Z

@TimKrul the comment I left tells you why I deleted your answers.

Bastian Treichler

I'd be interested if any of you guys have studied their arguments

Tim Krul

I know, but you should let me edit the answers

0celo7

Lubos is an interesting character.

Bastian Treichler

12:53

yep :) Deutsch too

David Z

@TimKrul why?

skull petrol

Could you give a link to the question please @TimKrul :-)

Bastian Treichler

@Slereah is it correct to say that the Born rule is just a statement about what is observed experimentally, but the Copenhagen interpretation makes it a fundamental rule of physics?

yuggib

@BastianTreichler I am always saddened by the notion of what a "proof" is for a physicist...

Tim Krul

physics.stackexchange.com/questions/217856/…

skull petrol

13:07

What would you say the notion of a "proof" is for a mathematician @yuggib

Tim Krul

@skullpetrol physics.stackexchange.com/questions/217856/…

yuggib

let's say that this Deutsch guy gives a different interpretation of the mathematical theory of quantum mechanics; that however in this particular case yields exactly the same consequences as the interpretation given by others; the only difference being that it is based on the "definition" of the "rational behavior" of the observer

skull petrol

Thanks @TimKrul

yuggib

@skullpetrol Oh, that's easy, there are many definitions for that

rigorous definitions

the idea is that a proof is simply a list of true statements

each one being an axiom (so true by definition), or inferred from axioms and previous statements of the proof by means of an allowed inference rule

Bastian Treichler

@yuggib well what Deutsch writes in detail is beyond my level of understanding, but the paper seems to be about axiomatic (rigorous) quantum theory. If it's possible to logically derive the Born rule from the other axioms, this would be big news IMHO.

skull petrol

13:13

So @TimKrul you don't think the question is at all "homework-like"?

ACuriousMind

@BastianTreichler You haven't seen rigorous axiomatic quantum theory yet.

Just from a cursory look at the paper, I see no discussion of Hilbert spaces, no discussion of domain of operators or what even defines a density operator.

Blatant assumption eigenstates exist with no regard for the difference between continuous and discrete spectrum...

yuggib

@BastianTreichler There is no possible logical proof of an interpretation; and Deutsch is discussing an interpretation. This is because the Born rule itself is an interpretation of a mathematical theory as an application to the real world.

ACuriousMind

I could go on, upshot: That isn't rigorous.

Which is often fine, but not when you try and give foundational derivations of quantum theory :P

yuggib

And I agree with @ACuriousMind, also in my opinion the paper is not rigorous at all

I could say more: if he knew the rigorous aspects of QM better, he would have known that given a quantum theory, intended as a mathematical theory, for any observable there exists a measurement process that satisfies the Born rule (even taking into account the continuous spectrum).

Bastian Treichler

@yuggib is the Born rule an interpretation of the mathematical theory? in my QM lecture, it was presented as one of the axioms of QM

yuggib

13:28

In my opinion, it is. Because it says: I have a mathematical theory (to be pedantic, that of non-commutative $C^*$ algebras), that I think should fit well with physical observations of the quantum world. How is it so? Because I interpret the measurements and their outcomes by means of the objects of the mathematical theory (in a way that is explained by the rule).

Then, by means of the mathematical theory I can make new predictions, and test them experimentally, and see if my rule/interpretation, is indeed the correct one.

Bastian Treichler

ok thanks

0celo7

13:45

hello

tfw addicted to PB&J

Utveckla och förenkla

112 2

Interesting name.

Finnish?

Why not :(

Loong

translate: Utveckla och förenkla

(from Swedish) Develop and facilitate

0celo7

close enough

I missed a spot shaving. That's the worst.

John Duffield

14:09

@0celo7 : look up at the clear night sky. Can you see a worldline? No. It's an abstract thing, it isn't something you can roll up. Or unroll. Slereah is lost in maths and wallowing in abstraction. Now watch my lips: there is no way you can move such that everything else not only moves back to where it was, but never moved at all. Time travel is woo. Let go of it. Move on.

@Slereah : yes, you are peddling woo, and I do understand why. I can explain why, but you have me on ignore, you aren't listening. Instead you carry on regardless, with your fingers in your ears singing tra-la-la.

0celo7

Tra-la-la

@JohnDuffield He has you muted, why do you still @ him?

skill patrol

woo woo

0celo7

skill patrol

Woo Woo

A Woo Woo is an alcoholic beverage made of vodka, peach schnapps, and cranberry juice. It is typically served as a cocktail in a highball glass or can be served as a shot. It is also sometimes served in a rocks glass. The ingredients are usually shaken together with ice or stirred as preferred. A lime wedge is used as a garnish. == VariationsEdit == The Georgia Peach recipe replaces vodka with light rum. == See alsoEdit == Sex on the Beach == ReferencesEdit == == External linksEdit == Woo Woo Recipe - Retrieved 10 October 2009. Making multiple shots...

0celo7

Bubb Rubb the Raiders Fan.

skill patrol

14:19

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woo+woo

John Duffield

@KyleKanos : who are you talking about?

skill patrol

Can I get A ...

0celo7

@skillpatrol srs mode, writing a paper now

are you American?

I need your opinion

Are you European or American

skill patrol

about?

just ask pal

0celo7

Would you say "Europeans are generally nicer than Americans" is a common belief in America

skill patrol

14:26

yup

0celo7

aight

I need to explain why people think the EU has less sanctions than the US but they actually have about 10 more

skill patrol

Europeans are considered more liberal with there attitudes.

0celo7

yeah

yuggib

define sanctions

0celo7

@yuggib read my paper when it's done

ACuriousMind

14:28

I'm not sure sanctions are generally seen as an expression of meanness :P

0celo7

@ACuriousMind well you explain it then

if they just didn't know they would have put the same number for both

yuggib

I would bet that gunshot-related crimes in the US are more than 10 times more frequent than in Europe

0celo7

but most people wrote a smaller number for Eurpoe

John Duffield

@0celo7 : It's like I said, I'm really not talking to him, What I'm really doing is letting the other guys know that he's in la-la land.

0celo7

@yuggib wtf does that have to do with anything

@JohnDuffield Problem with that is: we like him

And we like his la-la stuff

yuggib

14:30

not paying taxes is mean, using guns is meaner

at least in my opinion

0celo7

Your Einstein and Evidence jig isn't that popular tbh

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Well, I don't know, perhaps they think America has more quarrels with other nations than the Europeans. (Perhaps you meant that with "nicer", but I'd not put that up to a general niceness/meanness)

0celo7

After all, @Slereah 's upvote/downvote ratio is much higher than yours @JohnDuffield...

@ACuriousMind Ok...

I'm surprised by this though

The only countries that the US has sanctioned that the EU doesn't is Cuba and Venezuela

and I need to figure out what's going on with Cuba

yuggib

how in the world is that related to being nice/mean??

0celo7

@yuggib STOP THINKING LOGICALLY

yuggib

14:33

people are nice, not states

0celo7

yeesh

damn mathematicians

yuggib

I can never stop thinking logically

I'm flawed

3

0celo7

you'll never be a politician

sory

yuggib

agreed

not sure it is a bad thing though

skill patrol

what class is this for?

ACuriousMind

14:35

@yuggib Perhaps it is, the world might be better if it were ruled by mathematicians ;)

0celo7

@skillpatrol lingua englanda

@ACuriousMind oh jeez

yuggib

@ACuriousMind in ancient times they proposed philosophers...but mathematicians could definitely do better

0celo7

what's the difference

yuggib

a couple of physicists are (in)famous (european) politicians I think

0celo7

unless you're raising GDP you might as well be a philosopher

yuggib

14:37

on the very opposing sides

ACuriousMind

@yuggib Well, Merkel is technically one, for one.

yuggib

who could name them?

0celo7

@ACuriousMind great

yuggib

yess...and the other is...her european archenemy

0celo7

stop the politics ppl

who brought this up

ACuriousMind

14:38

@yuggib You'll have to be more specific :D

Can't think of another politician I know to be a physicist

0celo7

sigh

Secretary of Energy

or are we talking elected?

Carter was a nuclear engineer

and his policies are hurting the profession to this day

yuggib

it was Varoufakis, but I checked and he started studying physics but then ended graduating in economics and/or mathematical statistics

ACuriousMind

Ah, I see

skill patrol

14:58

Let's not forget that Einstein was offered and turned down the first presidency of Israel.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind "The shape of the extra dimensions is not exactly predicted by string theory, but if they were large, we'd have seen them by now."

What?

@skillpatrol Seriously?

skill patrol

yup

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