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5:00 PM
@EmilioPisanty But that's not precisely what historical locks were made for. They're meant for "stellar" questions which have exceptional redeeming value despite not being on topic. Not that "stellar" correlates directly to votes, but I'm thinking more like 25-score questions, not 5-score questions. Most questions don't come anywhere close to that.
By the way, our allotted time for the chat session is over. See everyone in two weeks! We'll continue this discussion on tags for those who would like to stick around.
@DavidZ so what do you reckon?
delete them all?
@EmilioPisanty All the questions? I'd say examine the top 5 or so for possible historical lock, and delete the rest. Though if we can have the tag blacklisted (I mean, forbidden for future use) without removing it, the deletion isn't so important.
@DavidZ or maybe we can ask for a mass migration to academia?
that last bit does look to be possible
@EmilioPisanty Eh... that's questionable. No guarantee that all the questions would be on topic or desirable on Academia, and some of them may have duplicates there anyway. Plus as a rule we can't migrate questions older than 60 days; I'm sure SE could override that, but I doubt they would want to.
One thing we could do is, if we find (open) duplicates on Academia, edit in a "manual duplicate notice" that points to the question there.
Since you pointed out that it does seem to be possible to have a tag blacklisted but not burninated, maybe we can just have blacklisted for now, and then we can discuss what to do with the old questions with that tag. cc @Qmechanic
BTW there's about 900 total rep on the tag.
not that removals will affect people much
but still
5:11 PM
I suppose that's a good point against deleting unnecessarily. Well, it looks like 200 of that rep is associated with deleted users anyway, and other than that, no more than 105 to any given user
@DavidZ yeah, on closer inspection, it's not that impactful
I guess this guy/girl won't be happy
but otherwise
Still, that is enough to push me over in favor of dealing with this without mass deletion if we can - and it looks like we can.
@DavidZ cool
I guess that's mostly it for now?
We haven't discussed the + tags
or tag review queues
but those sound like topics for another day
Yeah... well, I'm worn out for now, I agree to defer those to another day.
@EmilioPisanty : OK.
5:16 PM
@DavidZ one last bit, what's your thoughts on changing tags on this one to careers and then it can be lumped in with the others?
Q: Publication Authorship Credits

Michael LuciukMany physics papers now have dozens of authors per paper. Experimental physics may have multi-organizational and multi-country contributing staffs, but I'd guess that most of the names don't contribute a word or equation to a paper, yet they get individual authorship credit. My question is who de...

it's essentially the same situation the way I see it
Yeah, if the tag is going to be blacklisted anyway, I don't mind
What is a good software for Windows 7 that allows to create LaTeX documents and save/render them on desktop?
Any suggestions?
@Blue texmaker
5:18 PM
@Blue MikTeX is the common LaTeX compiler for Windows I think? You'll need a compiler as well as an editor (which TeXmaker is AFAIK)
@EmilioPisanty Thanks, checking
I have less than 15 more hours at home before I go to college
@Yashas You said it starts next Monday?
@DavidZ I imagine @Blue was looking for a frontend rather than a backend
@Blue but you do need a back-end to actually compile the latex into pdf whatever editor you choose
I guess I need both. I want to type my lecture notes in LaTeX and then save them as pdf documents for future reference
5:20 PM
Yeah, you need both
@Blue I need to be at the college on Saturday
I am leaving tmrow
@Yashas Oh, are your parents gonna accompany you?
@Blue yes
they need to sign some stuff AFAIK
@Yashas Good luck
@DavidZ Thank You :-)
5:21 PM
@Blue You need a backend but for windows the standard choice is MikTeX and there's little reason to deviate unless you have very specific requirements
@Yashas yup, good luck with that
@EmilioPisanty ty :)
Q: Latex distributions. What are their main differences?

Another.ChemistWhat are the main differences among: TeX Live teTeX fpTeX MiKTeX proTeXt MacTeX gwTeX OzTeX AmigaTeX PasTeX

oh, god, no, don't look at that
just install MikTeX and forget about it
it's enough of a pain to learn LaTeX as is
@Qmechanic I saw it mentioned on Peter Woit's blog. Not that I'm a big fan of Woit, but he does a good job of collating interesting links so I find his blog worth reading.
Texmaker isn't available for Windows 7? xm1math.net/texmaker/download.html
5:24 PM
Oh here's another good one:
A: What are the advantages of TeX Live over MiKTeX?

Joseph WrightI've covered some of this before on my blog, so some of this is a rehash! In recent versions, the differences between MiKTeX and TeX Live have narrowed. Package coverage between the two is similar, as is the ability to do on-line updates. I guess here you want differences: Only MiKTeX can do 'o...

@Blue The older version (4.5) says it does run in Win 7
@Blue hmmmmm, seems so, it stops at 4.5 for win7 and it's at 5.0 for the rest
@JohnRennie : Ah, Ok, thx.
and you could always just try the 5.0 installer on Windows 7, it might just work anyway
No, if you're just starting, there's no sense in jumping into monkey business like that
you want something that's well supported on your machine
@EmilioPisanty assuming you're talking about Texmaker 4.5 v 5.0, I disagree. My point is that both versions might be well supported even though only one claims to be.
And there should be nothing to lose by trying the other.
5:27 PM
I used texniccenter.org for a long time but switched to texmaker when I moved to ubuntu, mostly because of the better preview pane. it might have improved, though.
keyboard shortcuts are amazing technology
@Blue I think I would recommend texstudio texstudio.sourceforge.net
Q: LaTeX Editors/IDEs

hayalciWhat editors/IDEs are available for easing the process of writing TeX/LaTeX documents? Please state some useful features like code completion, spell checking, building final DVI or PDF files, etc. This question is undergoing a systematic refurbishment, see Let’s polish the Editors/IDEs questi...

2 hours ago, by Yashas
@JohnRennie Me too :D My DOB on FB says that I am 117 years old :D
good list with features breakdown
@Yashas: Hahaha, this made me laugh out loud! x'D
5:29 PM
TexStudio is so cluttered @EmilioPisanty
Also, good luck at college and everything! :-)
@0celoñe7 as opposed to what?
@Blue I'd suggest installing MikTeX (or an alternative TeX distribution if you want) to start, then you can download several different editors and try them. TeXmaker, TeXstudio, etc. See that list Emilio just linked to.
@EmilioPisanty The editor I use on Mac
@Kaumudi.H when I created my niece's Amazon account I put her age in as forty. Amazon don't seem surprised that a 40 year old is buying young adult fiction :-)
5:30 PM
@0celoñe7 yeah, well, this is on windows 7, so mac just don't cut it
@JohnRennie Ah, haha :-)
@JohnRennie I remember lying about my age on gmail when I created my account all those years ago but to no other website have I lied (in this respect :-P).
@JohnRennie well they wouldn't tell you so as not to tip their hand :-P
5:31 PM
@EmilioPisanty yeah
@0celoñe7 how does it do with source/pdf sync?
e.g. the ctrl+space / ctrl+click syntax on texmaker
I don't know what that is.
@0celoñe7 so if you ctrl+space at any line in the source, it will move the pdf to that paragraph and highlight it
and if you ctrl+click on the preview pane, it will move the source cursor the the line that produced it
frankly, any editor that doesn't have that is just wasting your time for no good reason
particularly on any document longer than two or three pages
I think I actually disabled that feature in my editor... can't remember why though
@DavidZ to each their workflow
5:34 PM
a.k.a. some people just like inefficient ways to work
I haven't tried to do that
Yeah... but I should probably try to enable it again. It doesn't make much sense to do without it and I really can't figure out why I turned it off in the first place.
Not sure if it works
@EmilioPisanty Neat. Command click works.
@0celoñe7 yeah
5:36 PM
@JohnRennie x'D
I can honestly swear that I owe my sanity to that feature.
Writing 240 pages without it would've driven me into a series of rooms with soft walls.
@EmilioPisanty I don't see how writing so many pages would lead you into bouncy castles ;)
@EmilioPisanty I can't see my current project getting that long.
Well, there are a few papers I wish to summarize and that might take a while.
I expect 100-150 when all is said and done.
@0celoñe7 you will write more projects than just your current project
@EmilioPisanty Yes.
In it's current state it's probably more than enough for my undergrad thesis, but I have so much left to do!
The subtitle has three points and I've covered two partially.
5:48 PM
Good old Mexico City
Looks like a crime scene?
@EmilioPisanty @DavidZ I just now found that ShareLatex is an online LaTeX editor which can also convert the document to pdf and allows download of the pdf. I think that will serve my purpose for now (without having to download any extra software on my machine). Thanks for your help though!
@Blue Ah, sure, if you prefer not to have to download anything, that's the way to go.
@Blue If you're an engineer you really should be using Word.
5:56 PM
FWIW ShareLatex will soon be merging with Overleaf.
@0celoñe7 [citation needed]
Getting quick with the equations, etc. will be helpful.
@DavidZ I'm an engineer?
(1) Not a citation (2) And you speak for all engineers?
@0celoñe7 I'm a physicist at heart :P Anyhow, I would like to typset my lecture notes for which LaTeX editors will do better than Word. Secondly, I find Word a bit outdated.
(1) What kind of demand is that? Do you expect it to be written in a gold tablet? (2) Yes.
@EmilioPisanty still looking for a room?-
5:58 PM
@Blue I am currently typing the same report in LaTeX and Word.
another friend of mine has something
The engineers who will read it prefer Word, and the physicists prefer LaTeX.
Maybe there are font packages for TeX to make it look more like Word.
How about the mathematicians?
@skullpatrol Depends on the purpose of the document.
@0celoñe7 so, what is the direct method?
6:00 PM
Q: Making a LaTeX document appear as though it were typeset in MS Word

user001I am typesetting a document in LaTeX for which I have been given exact specifications that are intended for an MS Word-processed document (single-sided, single-spaced, 0.75 inch margins, no more than 60 lines per page, no more than 15 characters per inch (including punctuation, spaces, and symbol...

@AccidentalFourierTransform Using analytic estimates on the functional to find the inf.
Usually one shows the functional is bounded below, then weakly lower semicontinuous, then extracts a sequence that converges weakly to the min, then shows the convergence is strong in some Sobolev/Lipschitz space.
inf is overrated
Finally there is a regularity theory...but there are more general methods too.
Sometimes one wants to minimize over a space of manifolds, and so has to consider more general objects such as currents or varifolds.
a satinary point is all i need
inf is overrated
a satinary point is all i need
on my phone, my internet connection sucks
6:06 PM
@ACuriousMind Why is $\delta S=0$?
@DavidZ Interesting.
Back to point (2), what gives you that authority? @0celoñe7
@skullpatrol There was a vote.
...and you were the only candidate?
@skullpatrol Of course not.
Be humble.
6:14 PM
@skullpatrol what does that mean?
@AccidentalFourierTransform yes
What part of "humble" don't you understand? @0celoñe7
@Blue here's a dirty secret: TeX is pretty outdated
Why doesn't ShareLatex editor recognize the $\Bbb R$ ? What packages do I need to import to enable MathJax ?
6:17 PM
@EmilioPisanty It's old. Doesn't "outdated" imply that there's something newer that's better than the outdated thing?
@ACuriousMind 3D printing.
Or do you just mean that it's design principles are outdated? Because with that I'd agree.
If you're not 3D printing your path, c'mon.
Get with the times.
@0celoñe7 I did import that..it's still not recognizing $\Bbb R$
6:19 PM
@Blue Typeset the $n$-th derivative as $y^{(n)}$.
@Blue Use \mathbb, not \Bbb
@ACuriousMind $\Bbb$ works on all of my editors.
@Blue Use the geometry package to fix the margins.
@Blue Use \to instead of \rightarrow.
@0celoñe7 It's obsolete and since ShareLatex has no reason to be backwards-compatible they perhaps droped it completely in their installation.
(I will retract that argument if \mathbb doesn't work either.
@ACuriousMind \mathbb also not working :/
6:22 PM
@Blue Please follow my other suggestions, I do know what I'm talking about.
@Blue It's in amssymb, not amsmath
Braces are superfluous on singular superscripts.
@ACuriousMind Ah.
@ACuriousMind Phew! Finally. Is there a list of the packages and commands in any one website? They are difficult to remember
@Blue hahahahahahaha
@Blue Google "list of latex symbols wiki"
Go to the LaTeX wiki
6:24 PM
I mean, there is a giant pdf that lists many symbols
But honestly, often the quickest way to identify where the symbol you want is is Detexify
Also improves your free-hand drawing skills ;)
@0celoñe7 Thanks, I know about the symbol list. I wanted to have a list of the LaTeX packages (like amsmath) along with the corresponding commands they support
@Blue ctan.org
@Blue CTAN is the repository for all packages, but...it's not really a list like the one you're thinking of
\usepackage{amsmath, amssymb, amsthm, fancyvrb, mathrsfs, verbatim}
also, packages are not just collections of symbols
6:27 PM
those are the major packages you'll never need
@0celoñe7 that's horrifying
@EmilioPisanty why?
ain't no need for that many newcommands
or at least
> \newcommand instead of \DeclareMathOperator
ain't no need for a newbie to pull that many commands from someone else's boilerplate
6:27 PM
@ACuriousMind what?
@Blue Updated.
Also, what Emilio said, no need to copy someone else's newcommands until you know whether you need them or not
@ACuriousMind I just pasted by usual thingie
I cut out the newcommands
@ACuriousMind what is the difference?
only set that's really worth recommending as boilerplate regardless of circumstances
Was that crime scene Mexico City? @EmilioPisanty
@EmilioPisanty >not including amsthm
6:30 PM
@skullpatrol apparently so
@0celoñe7 indeed
@0celoñe7 The latter is easier to use :P
no need
@EmilioPisanty How do you typeset theorems?
@0celoñe7 I don't
@0celoñe7 Physicists generally don't write definition-theorem-proof style, remember?
6:30 PM
@ACuriousMind The physics books I read do. Maybe there's an issue there.
Yeah, there's an issue with your "physics" books ;)
In any case, @Blue is taking notes on ODE.
Ok, maybe
@0celoñe7 I believe you mis-typed 'physics' for 'maths' :P
@Mithrandir24601 Mathematical physics?
6:32 PM
@0celoñe7 Thanks, that will be very helpful!
@0celoñe7 Fair enough then...
btw @DavidZ CC @Qmechanic @ACuriousMind
in Wolfram Mathematica, 3 mins ago, by rcollyer
Oh, I see. You're looking to possibly close out/burninate all the physics careers questions. Incidentally, mine came from the theoretical physics site (while it existed) and was considered on topic there.
@Blue Always remember to do \ii for the imaginary unit and \ee for Euler's number.
6:33 PM
@DanielSank What the...I think I see an email from you from a year ago containing some python file
@0celoñe7 @Blue always remember to do i for the imaginary unit and e for Euler's number
@Blue I highly recommend physics, as does @EmilioPisanty.
The documentation is very good.
Always remember to do Euler's number imaginary.
@SirCumference Probably a virus.
$\dv{f}{x}$ is $\frac{\mathrm df}{\mathrm dx}$.
@EmilioPisanty Aha
6:35 PM
hmmmm. Ah, also
@EmilioPisanty @ACuriousMind defend me
@ACuriousMind It says "special relativity take 2" and the sender says Daniel Sank
I never gave out my email
\usepackage[colorlinks,  linkcolor=blue,  urlcolor=blue,  citecolor=blue]{hyperref}
normally required to be the last package you load
471 lines of preamble on my thesis
out of 587 on the main file
@0celoñe7 Yup, I have imported that package. I'll save them (a list of the necessary packages) somewhere as a quick reference. BTW how do you write "physics" like that in your message?
6:37 PM
@Blue backticks ````
@SirCumference Uh. How would he have gotten your mail address then? (Contrary to the belief of a past user, Daniel is not actually the secret mastermind behind physics.SE :P)
@Blue just start using them
@Blue Also remember that quoted in LaTeX are ``", not ""
and then copy paste from whatever your last document was
6:38 PM
@ACuriousMind It's bizarre...though it was sent to the email I use on SE (my backup email, not my real one)
@Blue What? I mean put a backtick where I wrote {backtick}
@0celoñe7 Any editor worth its salt should also do that one intelligently :P
@ACuriousMind None of mine do.
@0celoñe7 Like this
And I chose the one you recommended!!!!!!!!!!!
6:39 PM
Yahoo :D
Got it :)
@ACuriousMind I find the definition part pretty pretentious for math texts.
I actually like the style that some books have where they partition a chapter into 50 sections and each section has a paragraph or a theorem.
Makes everything super organized.
I need to figure out how to do that.
@ACuriousMind what do you mean?
does it work the same in the end?
I cannot type today
@EmilioPisanty this command click is genius
@0celoñe7 toldja
does ctrl+space work, then?
I said command click does that.
Control + space is a hotkey for something else unrelated on my computer.
@0celoñe7 so you can't go from source to viewer?
you can probably choose a separate hotkey then
6:49 PM
@EmilioPisanty Not sure what that means.
I command click on a line in the PDF, and the source pops up with a highlight.
It works the other way around too, exactly the same.
To be clear, "command" is a button on Mac.
@0celoñe7 I thought you were running this on windows
but ok
@EmilioPisanty Hmm?
I would work on getting source-to-pdf working via keyboard without needing the mouse
On Windows I use TeXStudio.
I was saying I like my Mac editor much better though.
@EmilioPisanty thanks... I suppose that speaks (slightly) in favor of keeping them, which is what we're planning anyway
The migration from th.phys is kind of an unusual situation that could justify large scale historical locking. Something to think about for later.
6:57 PM
@ACuriousMind I'm gonna see Steiner in 6 days :D
@EmilioPisanty Are tables and figures numbered independently?
@0celoñe7 yes

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