The h Bar

0celoñe7

12:00 AM

@SirCumference someone is trying to hack you

if I knew your name I would have told the chat already

Sir Cumference

@0celoñe7 Wait what

@0celoñe7 Is this you?

Either way you got me concerned

0celoñe7

12:16 AM

@SirCumference no

but it is quite scary

how do they know my name and (almost) where I go to school

and that I know you

Sir Cumference

@0celoñe7 That might be a coincidence, since we have a mutual friend

And I checked, it's a real person

That's some creepy bs

First thing I thought of when I saw the name and school was ya, since you posted your name a few months ago

Anonymous

@SirCumference Is your Google account or Facebook account linked to SE somehow?

Anonymous

12:33 AM

21

Q: How does the Facebook friend finder operate?

Facebook friend finder is really creepy. It has suggested to me: The father of a friend of mine—whose existence in Facebook was unknown to the said friend of mine himself. The twin brother of a colleague of mine—of whose family I had no idea whatsoever about, Close friends of a school-going you...

Sir Cumference

@Blue Screw that

Anonymous

:P

Sir Cumference

Though the friend request has apparently been in my inbox for a few months.

Asked the mutual friend, she said she knows him and suggested us

Reasoning is beyond me

Still weird that I got John Rennie in my friend suggestions

Anonymous

Maybe you were stalking JR's profile :P

Sir Cumference

@Blue I didn't know he had FB...

Anonymous

12:43 AM

Who knows...maybe Stack Exchange has started selling user data to FB

Anonymous

XD

Anonymous

Facebook is an US American company, which is a country with unbelievable poor privacy-protection laws. Facebook is doing many things that would be illegal for a German company according to the privacy advisor of the state Schleswig-Holstein and the national consumer protection minister. The state SH is preparing investigations against local companies and organisations which embed the Facebook plugins on their websites without a proper service provider agreement. (Facebook does not sign service provider agreements in compliance with German law at all) — Hendrik Brummermann Oct 31 '11 at 19:20

Anonymous

I love this quote: "If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold" :D

heather

applied-physics exists?

that seems ripe for misuse

0celoñe7

@SirCumference you and this other Ryan?

heather

12:49 AM

@Qmechanic/@DavidZ/@ACuriousMind - what's the current view on posting separate burnination/blacklisting requests for tags in light of this past chat conversation?

Sir Cumference

@0celoñe7 yeah

Though obviously I've never met him

0celoñe7

Somehow that seems like an impossible coincidence

Dawood ibn Kareem

Apr 26 at 20:14, by 0celouvskyopoulos

My name is terrible

0celoñe7

@SirCumference Wait UT as in TN or TX?

Sir Cumference

@0celoñe7 Here

Make of that what you will

0celoñe7

12:57 AM

@SirCumference what?

Sir Cumference

I delete pics with people's faces in them

0celoñe7

@SirCumference According to google he's a 36 year old doctor.

Why is your friend friends with him?

Sir Cumference

I'm gonna ask her

She goes to UT

How do I explain this to her

0celoñe7

@SirCumference I now have enough information to find you.

Good luck.

Sir Cumference

@0celoñe7 wtf

0celoñe7

1:04 AM

@SirCumference I can see this taking a while.

David Z

@heather Each one should be its own separate meta post

Except the ones that have already been posted as answers on the existing thread

Sir Cumference

...

wtf

0celoñe7

@SirCumference is she premed?

that's pretty strange

Sir Cumference

@0celoñe7 No idea, she was my friend from middle school

0celoñe7

@SirCumference Why did she think you're premed then?

Sir Cumference

1:08 AM

@0celoñe7 I'm asking her

She says one of our friends told her I am

0celoñe7

@BernardoMeurer pls stuggest 2nd monitors

gsync

maybe not 1440p so I can still play on ultra

Sir Cumference

I guess for those curious on what I deleted:

0celoñe7

If I were a Chinese hacker I would be able to find you

I'm not obsessed enough though

You're safe

Sir Cumference

@0celoñe7 Thanks. That makes me feel real safe...

Bernardo Meurer

1:33 AM

@EmilioPisanty Reverting back to closed drivers because I need GPGPU desperately for OpenCL :(

Secret

2:21 AM

gofundme.com/savesnopes

Yashas

3:17 AM

@Kaumudi.H ty & good luck to you too

Abcd

4:29 AM

Hi @JohnRennie !

Just wanted to ask you whether I should use Valence Bond theory or VSEPR theory for determining molecular geometry @JohnRennie

I have studied both, and both seem to yield accurate results so am confused about the one to use.

John Rennie

@Abcd both are approximations that have their uses.

Abcd

@JohnRennie Which one's better?

John Rennie

I'm not sure one is better than the other. It depends on what you are trying to do. As a general rule I would consider both approaches when thinking about a problem.

Abcd

Okay, thanks

0celoñe7

@JohnRennie ok, time to write this timed thingie

John Rennie

4:38 AM

Ah yes, to run TeamViewer. It's simpler than you think. Just open the Task Scheduler from Windows Administrative Tools and create a new task.

0celoñe7

@JohnRennie New task or basic task?

John Rennie

Hang on, let me open it ...

Create Task

Type a title (any title) and leave the other settings at the defaults

0celoñe7

John Rennie

That's the Create Basic Task option - I wouldn't use that

0celoñe7

@JohnRennie Why not?

John Rennie

4:42 AM

Because you want the finer control Create Task gives you.

0celoñe7

@JohnRennie What finer control?

John Rennie

Try it and see :-)

0celoñe7

@JohnRennie I need it to run at 8AM...what finer control do I need?

I'm looking at it.

John Rennie

Well for example you want the task to run as the currently logged on user and run only when the user is logged on. If you run it when you aren't logged on you'll have a hidden instance of TeamViewer that you can't control.

Though you could use the basic task then go back in and check the properties.

0celoñe7

@JohnRennie How does the computer even run a program if no one is logged on?

John Rennie

4:45 AM

Computers have always done that ...

The task runs in its own separate session

Unix does that, so I imagine Macs do too

Qmechanic

@heather : Please don't. Use instead physics.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4768/2451

David Z

@Qmechanic That's the opposite of what I told her, and I believe what I said is in accordance with what we decided in the chat session. It definitely tracks with the recommendations on MSE anyway.

0celoñe7

5:15 AM

@JohnRennie Currently editing Skyrim meshes

One cannot mod this game enough

John Rennie

I used to mess around with Doom levels back in the day ...

0celoñe7

ridiculous!

this must be fixed

it's a bag strap

Sir Cumference

> If, on the other hand, you're thinking "Why is someone who studies makeup a major contributor to physics?", then I'd say you're half right. A cosmologist studies the makeup of the universe

@Jim My new favorite quote

John Rennie

I did a bit of work on makeup when I worked for Unilever ...

0celoñe7

@JohnRennie Ah, I can delete the bag!

Works jut as well.

Technology is amazing

John Rennie

5:29 AM

However did we waste our time before computer games were invented? :-)

Dawood ibn Kareem

@JohnRennie I'd be kind of embarrassed if my boss caught me working on my makeup while I'm at my desk.

user228700

Hi, everyone :-)

John Rennie

Morning

user228700

Change of news; I'm leaving for college tomorrow :'-(

John Rennie

@DawoodibnKareem :-) It was mainly on how to remove makeup i.e. how to wash it off without removing all the natural skin oils as well. At the time Unilever owned Elizabeth Arden so it had a makeup business.

0celoñe7

5:37 AM

@JohnRennie who knows, but the crazy bastard who came up with these things was a genius

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H why sad? This is the most exciting (and, yes, scary) time of your life!

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H Hello

Oh, wow! That's amazing! (I read slowly).

0celoñe7

Is it scary?

Dawood ibn Kareem

Scary for Kaumudi or for the college?

user228700

It is all of the above, yes.

user228700

5:38 AM

@DawoodibnKareem Haha, dude :-)

John Rennie

@0celoñe7 I found it pretty intimidating at least for the first few days

user228700

What, did I really type "Change of news"? Crap, I meant plans.

Dawood ibn Kareem

Unrelated, but did you get to Pizza Pizza Pizza in the end? And was it good?

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H you're going up early to get settled in? Or will you be staying with your gran for those few days?

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem No, I didn't :-/ We ended up dining at a North Indian place and it wasn't half bad, actually!

user228700

5:42 AM

@JohnRennie The latter :-) We'll busy ourselves buying a mattress, detergent, etc.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H What did you eat, and do you have photos?

John Rennie

That makes sense. Buying that sort of stuff locally is going to be a lot less hassle.

Dawood ibn Kareem

You have to provide your own mattress?

What is the YMCA coming to?

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Unfortunately, we didn't pause to click pictures :-(

Dawood ibn Kareem

The song didn't say anything about needing your own mattress (although it probably wouldn't have scanned if it had).

John Rennie

5:44 AM

@DawoodibnKareem at least that way you know you're not sharing the previous occupants body lice :-)

user228700

We had paneer tikka for starters. For the main course, we had garlic naan, kabuli naan, butter roti, malai kofta and we ordered malai kofta and vegetable hyderabadi (or something) for side dishes.

user228700

@JohnRennie Yes, yes.

Dawood ibn Kareem

What is malai kofta?

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Lol. Also what John said.

Dawood ibn Kareem

(FWIW, I don't know the difference between North Indian and South Indian cuisine).

user228700

5:45 AM

Oh, wow, they're vastly different.

user228700

I'd guess that when foreigners refer to "Indian" cuisine, they mean North Indian.

0celoñe7

vastly!?

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H most Indian restaurants in the UK are actually Pakistani, so North-West cuisine.

user228700

Ah, right, I see.

user228700

@0celoñe7 Yep. Vastly.

0celoñe7

5:47 AM

@JohnRennie trippy

user228700

Heck, different states in the South of India have cuisines of their own and they too are somewhat different from each other!

Dawood ibn Kareem

Yes, I understand that Southern India and Northern India are very different places.

Different culture, different languages, different food etc

user228700

What is my typing coming to...

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Yep, yep! :-)

user228700

> Malai kofta is a popular as well as most sought after vegetarian Indian dish in restaurants. Malai means cream and kofta are fried dumpling balls. Usually they are made up of mashed potatoes-veggies, with or without grated paneer.

Dawood ibn Kareem

5:51 AM

Everything sounds delicious.

user228700

And so it was! :-) I was starving too, by that time! I hadn't eaten anything in over 8 hours.

user228700

It's no wonder that I have chronic acid reflux :-/

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H There must be something you can do about that.

Qmechanic

@DavidZ & @heather : I disagree with that. That would potentially create too many individual meta posts. Which MSE recommendation?

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Nah, I've messed it up to such an extent that there is no looking back now.

Dawood ibn Kareem

5:54 AM

Well I hope it settles down as you grow older.

David Z

140

A: When to burninate

Before you start doing anything, put a little bit of thought into the request: Does this tag even need to be burninated? There are a lot of burninate-requests posted to various meta sites that are... To put it gently... A complete and utter waste of everyone's time. Some folks will seemingly p...

20

A: How should we make tag blacklist requests?

The procedure is as follows: First, burninate the tag, if there are currently questions tagged with it. If there aren't currently questions tagged with it, you probably don't need to blacklist it - but see Step #2. Once the tag is gone - no longer used on any questions - decide if it needs to ...

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Thanks :-) You're very nice! (:-P) My mum says that there is no hope but I'm hoping anyway!

Dawood ibn Kareem

Your mother is both right and wrong. There may be no hope with today's medicine. However, there may well be medical advances in the treatment of acid reflux in the years to come. So don't give up hope.

user228700

Ah, of course, right :-)

David Z

I guess maybe we didn't reach a firm conclusion on whether to make tag burnination requests as individual meta posts or not. That discussion starts somewhere around around this message. I do support having them as individual meta posts though, as Shog suggests on meta.

Qmechanic

6:01 AM

@DavidZ : For exceptional complicated cases, an individual meta post may eventual make sense, but to start the discussion of blacklist&burninate a tag, I would say, just open a new answer in physics.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4768/2451

David Z

@Qmechanic I don't agree with that - I mean, I would like to see new burnination/blacklisting requests made as individual meta posts going forward.

Part of the reason being that the existing thread is likely to get forgotten down the line.

Qmechanic

@DavidZ : Potentially too many.

@DavidZ : It gets to the top again.

David Z

Only when someone has already found it to post a burnination request.

And I disagree that there would be too many questions for burnination requests if each tag gets its own. The number of tags we have for which removal might be requested is quite small.

Qmechanic

@DavidZ That is unfortunate true, but it is the same with physics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/175/… But we'll just remind OP.

David Z

I suppose that is the way things are going for now (that we remind posters of the central tag removal request thread), but I would like to see it changed.

Anyway I'll have to take this up later. I'll have to go soon.

user228700

6:43 AM

@JohnR: I've just received a gift card on Amazon from one of my uncles! :-D

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H :-) That's a nice way to start the term. Any thoughts on what you're going to buy, or will you save it up?

user228700

It is! :-) It was incredibly kind and sweet of him to give it to me. He even wrote me an e-mail wishing me the best of luck etc.

user228700

@JohnRennie I will save it up :-) I don't have anything in mind to buy immediately.

user228700

I may have a bit of a problem with money, actually; when I do have it to hand, I don't buy anything at all.

John Rennie

Do you have to buy books for the course or are they all provided?

user228700

6:48 AM

@JohnRennie They haven't told us anything about anything yet. While one can only hope that they will provide them, I'm not so sure that they will, seeing as they didn't collect a fee for books.

John Rennie

Not a bad thing to have an emergency Amazon reserve then!

user228700

Oh, certainly not! :-)

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H I find I'm reluctant to spend small amounts of money. But then when there is something I really want I'm hapy to go for it.

I suppose my view is that all those small amounts saved allowed me to buy something that I really wanted.

Mostly laptops :-)

user228700

Hmm, I see. Well, when I used the money that my grandpa gave me to buy pizza (on a whim, really), I cried after I finished eating it because it was the last of my reserves.

user228700

...this is why I emphasise on the word problem :-P

Dawood ibn Kareem

6:59 AM

The tragic part of that story is that it was a Domino's pizza.

user228700

Lol, yes.

The Raiders of Las Vegas

Hi peeps :-)

Dawood ibn Kareem

Viva Las Raiders!

3

The Raiders of Las Vegas

:-D

Abcd

7:38 AM

Why is summation T.x = 0? Research effort: Googled but couldn't find any satisfactory explanation.

John Rennie

What are $T$ and $x$?

Abcd

Tension

and displacement of string in a pulley system

John Rennie

I'm not sure what you mean. Have you got an example system to illustrate what you're asking?

Abcd

@JohnRennie Just a minute

@JohnRennie quora.com/…

Dawood ibn Kareem

Do you mean specifically on pulleys whose speed of rotation is constant?

Abcd

7:43 AM

@DawoodibnKareem Nope. Let me post an example problem

Dawood ibn Kareem

That quora post you linked to says $\sum T\cdot v$ is zero, not $\sum T\cdot x$.

Oh, sorry, my mistake; it says both.

Abcd

@DawoodibnKareem That's after differentiating

Dawood ibn Kareem

1 min ago, by Dawood ibn Kareem

Oh, sorry, my mistake; it says both.

Abcd

The above problem can be solved using two methods. (one that is depicted and the other that is Summation T.x = 0)

Dawood ibn Kareem

The quora post assumes that no work is done on anything outside the pulley system.

So you add up all the $T\cdot x$ within the pulley system, and you must get zero.

Abcd

7:48 AM

@DawoodibnKareem Why so?

Dawood ibn Kareem

Well, if something in the system moves a distance $x$ because of a tension $T$, then the work done on it is $T \cdot x$, right?

John Rennie

@Abcd because the string length is fixed.

The tension in the string cannot do any work because the string length doesn't change.

Abcd

@DawoodibnKareem Yes

And I forgot to mention that I am studying constraint relation and this a subtopic under that

@JohnRennie okay

Can someone explain the method that is shown in the picture.

John Rennie

@Abcd you mean calculating the relationship between $a_1$ and $a_2$?

Abcd

yes

John Rennie

7:56 AM

The question is making something really simple look complicated. The distance $m_2$ moves is always half the distance $m_1$ moves. So the velocity $v_2$ will be half $v_1$ and the acceleration $a_2$ will be half $a_1$.

Abcd

The distance m2m2 moves is always half the distance m1 moves. How?

I want to understand those equations used in the solution to reach the desired constraint relation.

John Rennie

The length of the string is constant, so if the length of the red bit decreases by $dx$ then the length of the green + blue bits must increase by $dx$. Yes?

Abcd

8:21 AM

@JohnRennie Yes

John Rennie

@Abcd OK, and the length marked $Y$ is fixed because it's just the distance from the ceiling to the level of the table.

So only the green part and the part labelled $X$ can increase in length as the red part decreases in length. OK so far?

Abcd

@JohnRennie Didn't get this part.

John Rennie

If you look at the pink part of the string one end is fixed to the upper support and the other end is always at the same level as the red string. So the length of the pink part doesn't change as the masses move.

Abcd

@JohnRennie yes

John Rennie

So if the red part decreases in length by $dx$ the green + blue parts must increase in length by $dx$.

Abcd

8:29 AM

yes

John Rennie

And the lengths of the green and blue parts are the same

Abcd

yes

John Rennie

So that means the green part must increase by $dx/2$ and the blue part also increases by $dx/2$, so when you add them together the total increase is $dx$

Abcd

yeah

Understood the relation now. Thanks :)

@JohnRennie How do I apply the Summation T.x = 0 method to this?

John Rennie

@Abcd hmm, if $m_1$ moves a distance $dx_1$ then the work done on it is $T dx_1$

And if $m_2$ moves a distance $dx_2$ then the work done on it is $2T dx_2$. It's $2T$ because both parts of the string are pulling upwards on $m_2$ with a force $T$.

For the net work to sum to zero we must have $T dx_1 = 2T dx_2$ so we get $dx_2 = dx_1/2$ just as before.

Abcd

8:38 AM

Okay, understood.

Rumplestillskin

9:00 AM

Does anyone have any good links/resources to derive the Lense-Thirring precession beginning with hte first post newtonian approximation?

Dawood ibn Kareem

9:19 AM

@JohnRennie Your use of differentials as if they were real quantities makes the mathematician in me uncomfortable. Is this common practice in physics exercises of this type?

user228700

@Abcd FIITJEE, eh?

John Rennie

@DawoodibnKareem I should have written $\delta x$ as it wasn't meant to be a differential, just a small distance. However since you ask yes physicists are notoriously cavalier with differentials :-)

Dawood ibn Kareem

@JohnRennie I think I kind of knew that, although it's a number of years since I've sat in a physics lecture. I just drew it to your attention, since when you're teaching someone (Abcd), it's a good time to get these picky wee details right.

ACuriousMind

@DawoodibnKareem Yes. Most physicists have absolutely no qualms about pretending $\mathrm{d}x$ is just a small number.

And it's very common to teach like that, since for some reason the general opinion seems to be that introducing differentials properly is "too hard"

But yeah, in this case it wasn't even a differential. Using $\delta x$ or $\mathrm{d}x$ for small changes that aren't differentials but really just small numbers is also common :P

John Rennie

:: John skulks off, head hung low ::

Dawood ibn Kareem

9:33 AM

I vividly recall (well, not vividly, since it was 1990) being taught stage 3 electromagnetism by a geophysicist who took the most appalling liberties with the mathematics. I simply couldn't believe how many of his proofs were technically entirely invalid.

user228700

@JohnRennie :-(

user228700

I have a quick question to y'all. How do u pronounce the word education?

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H the mathematicians are being mean to me!!! :-)

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H Correctly.

John Rennie

Ed yew kay shun

Dawood ibn Kareem

9:35 AM

@Kaumudi.H Do you want me to make a recording?

user228700

@JohnRennie What? E dew kayshun?!

John Rennie

Or possibly Ed Jew Kay Shun

ACuriousMind

@DawoodibnKareem As I said, unless you're doing mathematical physics, that's par for the course - many physicists neither know about nor care for actual mathematical rigour

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Oh, no, no, don't trouble yourself :-)

ACuriousMind

@DawoodibnKareem But education and correctly sound nothing alike!

user228700

9:37 AM

@JohnRennie Huh? Which one's correct?! :-o

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H You are aware of forvo, right? There are 8 perfectly good pronunciations of education there.

John Rennie

This is close to the way I pronounce it

ACuriousMind

@Kaumudi.H Neither/both

user228700

@JohnRennie All my life, I have pronounced it this way.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@JohnRennie I had no idea your voice was so high-pitched.

John Rennie

9:38 AM

It has been ever since the unfortunate accident whilst water skiing at the naturist beach

user228700

And now, a bunch of people have been going around shouting "You're pronouncing it WRONG! It's edoo kayshun, not ed jew kayshun" and they say it with such conviction too!

user228700

@JohnRennie This made me laugh out loud :-)

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H not my reaction at the time

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H Not sure whether you mean the English j sound or the IPA /j/ symbol in "ed jew".

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H edoo kayshun sounds a more US pronounciation.

user228700

9:40 AM

Hang on.

Dawood ibn Kareem

But inserting an English j sound makes your speech sound lazy and less educated than inserting a y sound.

@JohnRennie I disagree. I don't think I've ever heard an American say edoo kayshun.

John Rennie

I wouldn't be surprised to find pronounciation was different on the two sides of the Atlantic.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@JohnRennie According to forvo, it's remarkably similar on both sides.

ACuriousMind

@JohnRennie Wiktionary has the Us/UK versions sound pretty similar

Dawood ibn Kareem

Go to forvo.com/word/education/#en and have a listen.

John Rennie

9:41 AM

In that case K's friends are just plain wrong

Dawood ibn Kareem

@JohnRennie She didn't say they were her friends. Just "a bunch of people".

ACuriousMind

Well, I'm not sure what exactly she means when she writes "edoo". Writing about pronounciation and not using IPA is a recipe for misunderstanding

Dawood ibn Kareem

The second sentence of that comment deserves five stars.

John Rennie

Too much IPA certain messes with my pronunciation ...

Dawood ibn Kareem

LOL

Pink Floyd - Another Brick In The Wall (HQ)

►

user228700

9:45 AM

@ACuriousMind I don't even know what IPA is.

John Rennie

International Phonetic Alphabet

The International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) is an alphabetic system of phonetic notation based primarily on the Latin alphabet. It was devised by the International Phonetic Association in the late 19th century as a standardized representation of the sounds of spoken language. The IPA is used by lexicographers, foreign language students and teachers, linguists, speech-language pathologists, singers, actors, constructed language creators and translators. The IPA is designed to represent only those qualities of speech that are part of oral language: phones, phonemes, intonation and the separation of...

ACuriousMind

@Kaumudi.H A phonetic alphabet that allows us to more-or-less unambiguously denote sounds by symbols.

John Rennie

Ninja'd! :-)

user228700

Ohh, wokay, thanks. Hang on a bit more, I'll link you to the bunch of people and how they were pronouncing it.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H Were these people British or American?

ACuriousMind

9:47 AM

There's a bit of difficulty still left because different languages use different phonemes and might not be able to "hear" some of the distinctions IPA makes

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem They were Indian.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H Were they advising you as to how it should be pronounced in Indian English? Or British English? Or American English?

user228700

Uhh, no, they were arguing about the objectively correct way to pronounce it.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H There's no such thing!

user228700

Besides, all of India uses British English.

ACuriousMind

9:48 AM

Well, then you should just forget about them altogether because they're a bunch of silly prescriptivists :P

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H No. Indian English is a thing.

Or possibly a continuum of things.

But none of the things in that continuum is the same as British English.

user228700

Well, yes, but the use of "Indian English" is generally frowned upon here.

Dawood ibn Kareem

Indians saying they speak British English doesn't make it so.

ACuriousMind

@Kaumudi.H That doesn't change the fact that the use of English in India is objectively different from "British English". It's a linguistic description, not a judgement.

Dawood ibn Kareem

Unless they really are speaking British English. But I've never heard an Indian speaking British English. Except for those raised in Britain, of course.

user228700

9:51 AM

I...I don't even know what it is we're talking about anymore.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H My point - there's no "objectively correct" way to pronounce any English word.

Pretty much any English word will be pronounced differently in different Anglophone places.

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Are you talking about accents and slang?

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H No.

user228700

What, then?

ACuriousMind

@Kaumudi.H I think the upshot is that there is no such thing as "objectively correct pronounciation", and that there may be a pronounciation that is more widespread in (parts of) India than elsewhere and that that's what the people are referring to.

@DawoodibnKareem Uh..."pronounciation different in certain places" is pretty much the definition of accent

user228700

9:53 AM

That's certainly not what to which they were referring; other than those people, I've never heard anybody say edoo in education.

Dawood ibn Kareem

Your friends may be knowledgeable about how a word is spoken in Chennai. John would be knowledgeable about how the same word is spoken in Chester. And I would be knowledgeable about how it is spoken in my little corner of the world. But none of us is objectively right or wrong.

The Raiders of Las Vegas

Australian English is a "thing" also.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@TheRaidersofLasVegas Some consider it an abomination.

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem 1) They're not my friends :-P They're just a bunch of people on YouTube and 2) So you are talking about accent, no?

user228700

ARGH. Stupid typos.

Dawood ibn Kareem

9:55 AM

No, I'm not. And maybe "education" is a bad example. Anyone want to comment on "aluminium" or "tomato"?

The Raiders of Las Vegas

What about the "cockney" accent? @DawoodibnKareem

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Tomato is pronounced differently? :-o

ACuriousMind

@Kaumudi.H People tend to get weird about "correct language". Hypercorrection is a thing - maybe they were taught some "rule" about similar words and are now incorrectly applying it to education.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@TheRaidersofLasVegas Cockneys speak British English with a Cockney accent. What's your point?

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem: If you're not talking about accents, what on Earth are you talking about?

ACuriousMind

9:56 AM

@Kaumudi.H "you say tomato, I say tomato" (first to-may-to, then to-mah-to) is a common English idiom for "it makes no difference"

Dawood ibn Kareem

@Kaumudi.H Most Americans pronounce "tomato" very differently from most Britons. But neither is right or wrong. And the difference is not just a matter of accent. You can say the American pronunciation of "tomato" with a British accent, or the British pronunciation of "tomato" with an American accent.

There are other words like this. "Schedule" is one of my favourites.

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Oh, hmm, OK, I'm starting to get your point.

ACuriousMind

@DawoodibnKareem No, you can't (I think you use accent in a non-standard way). By definition, an accent in linguistics is having a certain pronounciation for a specific words.

user228700

@ACuriousMind Oh, yeah, I know that one.

Dawood ibn Kareem

It's interesting listening to Hugh Laurie in House, where he is putting on an American accent. Sometimes he gives "schedule" the British pronunciation, sometimes the American pronunciation; but always in an American accent.

@ACuriousMind I disagree. Accent is having a certain pronunciation for certain phonemes. It's not about which phonemes are in the words.

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