The h Bar

Hi :-)

So what did you think of TTT?

user228700

Ugh, I wasn't able to finish it :-( There were quite a few interruptions in the middle, because of which I only started watching at 11.

user228700

...and by the time it was 1:15, I still had 1:30 hours to go.

user228700

So I went off to bed (and woke just now.)

The only occasions I'm awake at 11 p.m., let along 1:30 a.m., are if I'm out drinking with friends, and it usually leaves me a zombie the next morning!

user228700

5:14 AM

Haha! :-) I feel quite fresh this morning, actually.

The resilience of youth - enjoy it while it lasts :-)

user228700

Hehe :-) I've gots to book a train ticket in 15 minutes.

Going anywhere interesting?

user228700

It's a mad rush so hopefully, I make it!

Oh, you did say before. Back to Kerala?

user228700

5:15 AM

@JohnRennie No no, just Kerala.

user228700

Yep.

Q: To make successful question migrations, we need also proper tagging

But this time you're doing more travelling? Visiting cities?

You did say something about it when we talked about taking your bicycle on the train, but I've forgotten the details.

user228700

Yeah. Although, we are staying at the village for a week or so :-(

user228700

After that, we'll be going to another house to meet my dad's brother and then to Munnar, I think.

user228700

Well, I hope anyway.

user228700

5:43 AM

ARGH, don't you just hate it when you're already in a mad rush to book tickets, you make the payment and everything and this happens:

user228700

Physics Meta

5:57 AM

0

If we vote a question to migrate away to a different SE site, there is also a non-trivial and lesser known requirement. The question needs to have a tag, which exists also on the target site. If it doesn't, the migration will be automatically rejected. This rule is one of the numerous obstacle...

discussion

DanielSank

@Kaumudi.H sounds annoying

user228700

6:28 AM

Yeah, no kidding!

Did you get your tickets in the end?

user228700

Nope.

user228700

I didn't make it yesterday either.

user228700

So now we're going to have to go by bus tomorrow.

:-( What now? Go to the station and buy them in person?

user228700

6:29 AM

No, bus tickets to Kerala are almost always available so I should be able to book them online today.

Ah. The train tickets are limited availability?

user228700

Very.

user228700

Back to finishing the Trilogy today, then...

user228700

@JohnR: Ooh, I'm meeting a computation neurologist today, BTW!

@Kaumudi.H Cool :-) How did that come about?

user228700

6:39 AM

My friend, who has just finished her 1st year in an integrated Science program at IISER (another premier institute for Science in India) is doing an internship with this prof. this summer (in IIT).

user228700

I went to meet her yesterday and told about the whole CN thing, which was when she told about him and asked me to tag along with her today, when she goes to ask about the details of her internship.

user228700

So I will. I'll ask about which undergraduate degree he thinks it's best to have; C.S or Electrical.

Excellent, that sounds as though it's going to be really interesting!

user228700

Yeah! I hope it will :-)

8:28 AM

@Kaumudi.H At the end of my first year in undergrad, I was completely torn between doing Computer Science and Physics. A bit of advice I was given by my physics supervisor was that they're similar enough that transferring from one to the other after the degree shouldn't be much of a problem (and they lead into the same sort of jobs anyway), so I should just do what I enjoyed most at the time

user228700

Uhh, OK, thanks...

(what I'm trying to say is that whatever subject you end up doing doesn't really determine anything afterwards, especially for two subjects that are so similar, although perhaps others will disagree)

Presumably CS carries the engineering cachet, which seems to count for a lot in India.

Aside from that I agree with Mithrandir. I don't think coding is that hard and if you're bright enough to get a physics degree you're bright enough to code for a living. In fact few of my friends who pay their mortgages by coding have CS degrees. In fact many have no degree.

sup doods

is 0celouvskyopoulo7 the same as 0celo?

namechange or duplicate account?

@Kenshin When I search '0celo' under users, the only one that comes up is 0celouvskyopoulo7, so it looks like it...

8:41 AM

ty Mith

I'm suprised people are still discussing his suspension given he was suspended from chat ages ago

no problem!

Should we refine the be nice policy of SE?

for example most countries don't say you can't offend or can't discriminate, but instead say you can't offend or discriminate against "protected attriubutes" such as age, race, gender etc.

perhaps we can outline protected attributes here that people should be careful about

In my view there are two ways to regulate, (1) Civil Code and (2) Common Law

We currently use a common law system here but it breaks down due to mods not being happy to discuss suspensions

The problem is that the moderation of chat is fundamentally authoritarian. The Daniel/Heather/Bernardo/Ryan axis don't like this, but they don't get to choose the rules. The SE community mods dictate policy and our mods have to enforce that, ideally as sensitively as possible.

So a civil code system would be better

@JohnRennie even if authoritarian, I have confidence the powers that be would agree with a consistent approach to moderation

so I don't believe codifying the rules of behaviour would be too difficult

If your father tells you to stop doing something you stop. If you start arguing with your dad you're likely to be sent to your room. The chat moderation is basically the same.

8:51 AM

yes I understand how it currently works

user228700

@Mithrandir24601 Ah, I see ur point. Thank you :-)

but this isn't optimal

The point is that it starts and ends with this. SE make the rules and we comply or leave - forcibly if necessary.

YEa that's like what I said in Meta

user228700

Sorry to interrupt but @JohnR: I quite like this Smeagol "person".

8:52 AM

the powerful make the rules

All the recent hoohah has basically been the aforementioned axis saying But Dad ...

lol

One of them got sent to their room for 30 days, the others will follow unless they toe the line. That's all there is to it.

@Kaumudi.H the guy who strangled his brother to get the ring?

user228700

Uhh, I haven't reached the brother part yet...

user228700

(Still watching TTT)

8:53 AM

@JohnRennie the problem for me is it is unclear where "the line" is

user228700

But yes, that guy.

@Kaumudi.H I don't think that's in the film. It's discussed in the books but I suspect it might be one of the things that had to be omitted to keep the film length to only ten hours! :-)

user228700

Oh, really? Hmm, they did say something about murder...

I am not on the side of the daniel/heather/bernardo/ryan axis tho

user228700

But nothing about a brother, no. It was hinted that he used to be a hobbit before but nothing more.

8:55 AM

But I think everyone can win with a civil code system

@Kaumudi.H have you seen frodo die yet

LOTR The Two Towers - Gollum and Sméagol

Smeagol is fundamentally a victim - he was corrupted by the ring as is everyone who covets the ring. So I have some sympathy for his position. But he is utterly amoral and will do whatever it takes to get the ring back.

user228700

-_- No. Thanks though.

user228700

@JohnRennie Yes, I agree.

user228700

I quite like this scene though:

user228700

►

8:56 AM

did you know lord of the rings is based on a greek tale

I can probably find the bit in the book if you want ...

Ring of Gyges

The Ring of Gyges is a mythical magical artifact mentioned by the philosopher Plato in Book 2 of his Republic (2:359a–2:360d). It granted its owner the power to become invisible at will. Through the story of the ring, Republic considers whether an intelligent person would be moral if he did not have to fear being caught and punished for doing injustices. == The legends == Gyges of Lydia was a historical king, the founder of the Mermnad dynasty of Lydian kings. Various ancient works—the most well-known being The Histories of Herodotus—gave different accounts of the circumstances of his rise to power...

^what lord of the rings is based on

@Kaumudi.H that's my favourite bit of the film

user228700

@JohnRennie Oooh. If you're not busy and would like to, please do! :-) I'd be ever so grateful!

user228700

@Kenshin Same here perhaps :-) Haven't finished the movie though so not sure yet.

He had a friend called Déagol, of similar sort, sharper-eyed but not so quick and strong. On a time they took a boat and went down to the Gladden Fields, where there were great beds of iris and flowering reeds. There Sméagol got out and went nosing about the banks but Déagol sat in the boat and fished. Suddenly a great fish took his hook, and before he knew where he was, he was dragged out and down into the water, to the bottom. Then he let go of his line, for he thought he saw something shining in the river-bed; and holding his breath he grabbed at it.

From The Fellowship of the Ring, chapter 2, "The Shadow of the Past".

user228700

9:02 AM

Oh God...

user228700

That definitely changes things.

user228700

I had come to take pity on him for how the ring had corrupted his mind to the extent of insanity but this, wow...

user228700

Dammit.

@Kenshin I agree that the question should be asked, but my viewpoint is essentially that the 'be nice' policy is so good because it's so general, otherwise it would constantly have to be changing and adapting to match whatever is happening at that time in the SE sites

@Kaumudi.H but the ring was so bright and beautiful tho

9:04 AM

@JohnRennie There's definitely a scene in one of the films (RoTK?) about this, but it might have only been the extended edition

user228700

Oh, it is part of the movie!

@Mithrandir24601 yes the "be nice policy" is like a "common law" system, but for these to work one must understand the precidents. Unfortunately mods don't like discussing historic ation making this impossible

user228700

The implication is that the ring corrupted Sméagol. He is described as being a reasonably normal person before the incident.

user228700

@JohnRennie I find it a bit difficult to believe that the ring corrupted him on first sight...

9:05 AM

And yes, Sméagol is described (by Gandalf who is telling the story to Frodo) as "hobbit-kind"

@JohnRennie why did smeogal turn ugly

user228700

@Kenshin I disagree. His looks cuter when "ugly" :-P As a hobbit, not so much...

@Kenshin Ah, OK :/ I see the problem...

The book doesn't go into a lot of detail on Sméagol's back story, it just says (again, it's Gandalf telling this to Frodo):
The most inquisitive and curious-minded of that family was called Sméagol. He was interested in roots and beginnings; he dived into deep pools; he burrowed under trees and growing plants; he tunnelled into green mounds; and he ceased to look up at the hill-tops, or the leaves on trees, or the flowers opening in the air: his head and his eyes were downward.

There is no suggestion he was a villain before the incident with the ring.

user228700

Hmm, OK...

9:10 AM

@Kenshin His lifetime had been unnaturally extended by the ring. At the time of the LOTR story he was 589 years old. But this extension caused a gradual decay into the twisted form you see in the film.

i see ty @JohnRennie

user228700

@JohnRennie 589 oh God...

user228700

I like Smeagol as he is then.

user228700

It's clear that he's terribly regretful for the things that he did(/under the influence of the ring)

Well ...

From the book it's clear that he feels himself a victim. He regrets the fact he got corrupted by the ring but it's a self-indulgent regret and he feels it wasn't his fault and the world is to blame.

user228700

9:15 AM

Ah...

user228700

I pity him anyway. Perhaps not like but yes, he has my pity.

Bear in mind than Tolkien was a professor of English. He diodn't have a high regard for scientists, and Gollum is pretty much the archetype of the selfish scientist corrupted by his own foolishness.

user228700

A little bit, yeah, I guess...

Tolkien describes Seagol as inquisitive and curious-minded, which pretty much describes everyone here :-)

user228700

Ah, hmm :-)

9:18 AM

The whole story is basically a criticism of the industrial revolution and the technological progress that accompanied it.

user228700

Anyhoo, I gots to finish what I can of this movie before getting ready to meet the prof.!

why ru meeting a prof?

user228700

@JohnRennie Maybe I will have a clearer understanding of this when I finish the trilogy but that makes somes sense, yeah...

user228700

@Kenshin Scroll up/read the transcript for today :-)

aw k

user228700

9:20 AM

@JohnR: Even more interruptions so I wasn't able to finish it this morning, no :-(

@Kaumudi.H You really need to read the books to understand the underlying issues. The films are good, but they are necessarily shallow because you can't fit several thousand densely written pages into ten hours of film.

user228700

Dang.

user228700

They're too large! :-( With terrifyingly small font.

but books take too long to read

better to fill the mind with books of physics and computers

@Kaumudi.H The journey of a thousand miles ...

user228700

9:21 AM

:-/

user228700

It's OK, I will be content with this.

user228700

Alright then, I will see u all later. Bye!

tata