The Awkward Silence

Q: Is there any way to develop iOS apps on a MacPro 2,1 in 2019?

Morning! :)

ankii

7:13 AM

Morning!

1

I wanted to run cordova on some my apps so that I can test them for iOS. Running cordova run ios on a windows system will complain: xcodebuild was not found. Please install version 9.0.0 or greater from App Store I had already read that you needed a Mac in order to build iOS apps so not k...

@scohe001 @CaldeiraG

Oh man... I come to know something new about your username every-time I manually tag you. I thought it was claderia, then cladeira and now caldeira.

7:30 AM

@ankii :p i know what you feel, most people have trouble spelling the name

what's a macPro 2,1 though

there ya go

https://learnappmaking.com/develop-ios-apps-on-windows-pc/

Basically just buy a Mac, it will save you from troubles xD

9:04 AM

→ 13 messages moved to Trash

9:37 AM

→ 5 messages moved to Trash

Sorry I had to remove that message @CaldeiraG, we prefer not to discuss these things in chat. But I did see your flag and contacted them to let them know about the issue :)

If someone could keep an eye on this to make sure the sentence I removed doesn't come back exactly as is, I would be grateful

@Ælis oof... I'll try to, yes

Hey, quick question: a few days ago it was decided that the term "manspreading" should no longer be used in a particular question and its answers. I suggested a similar edit to another question, remove usage of the term "mansplaining" (as it has indeed provoked some arguments). But my edit was rejected. Could anyone tell me why? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/14219/…

Relevant meta post: interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3811/…

@HugoZink Nothing was decided. I just agreed that it would be better for my question to not contain the term (because it was causing too much work to moderate) and I let people edit it out

@HugoZink Hi there! I'm the one who rejected the edit. I'll try to explain my reasoning but it my take some time for me to gather my thoughts, so please don't mind the latency :)

9:51 AM

@HugoZink This question is old, it no longer generates a lot of discussions and arguing, so leaving the term here is fine. Note: this is just my opinion and might not be the reason why avazula decided to reject the edit

@avazula No worries! You guys should have a "Ask a moderator" chat room for such situations

@CaldeiraG Nah, that's called 'raise a custom flag' :P

@Tinkeringbell Unfortunately, I found the character limit very small so I couldn't fit more if I wanted :p

@HugoZink Quick disclaimer first: I'm a feminist and I advocate daily on refusing oppressions of any kind, may it be about handicap, race, sexuality, gender, or species. I rejected the edit as "clearly conflicting with the author's intent". I did so because they were discussing studied, named, common sociological patterns, and OP clearly wanted to talk about the phenomenon that's called mansplaining. -TBC

@CaldeiraG Hmm... I don't know. We already have so many rooms!

9:59 AM

@CaldeiraG lol

that's an old SU tradition

and tbh might not work for all communities

@JourneymanGeek I like it though

@CaldeiraG There's a very narrow band of situations where its super useful

I know some people get offended by that word, from my understanding mostly because they don't want to be accused of mansplaining. They think every time someone appearing as male explains something to someone appearing as female, that's mansplaining. it is not. Mansplaining is about unsolicited advice and explanation from someone whose allowed and encouraged by society to make themselves heard and not let others express themselves. -TBC

@avazula "TBC"?

To be continued

10:01 AM

@JourneymanGeek If only the custom flag thingie allowed more characters it would be perfect

As in, they're still typing their next part

It's like when a cisman tells a woman they can't suffer that much from their period, that it's biologically impossible to be split in two by pain, etc. This is mansplaining. When a cisman gives his unsolicited opinion about something, thinking he know better than the woman he's talking too. And that, I believe, is what OP wanted to talk about in their post. -To Be Continued (:p)

:p

@CaldeiraG I always want to be chatty when I leave a custom flag (especially since I know the mods), so I also end-up frustrated too ^^

@Tinkeringbell We got 4, i guess? (here, HNQ,Comment thingies and The Closet)

@CaldeiraG Comment thingies?

10:04 AM

Comment Thingies

All about comments on IPS

@CaldeiraG Oh right, but that's a temporary one (not expected to stay "forever")

@Ælis Oh i see, seems pretty "active"

There's a room for moderating this room, and a room for moderators too... so that makes 5 for me to keep an eye on :) And that's without the rooms that are used to moderate over at MSE ;)

@avazula Its just as bad if a woman tells a woman she can't suffer that much either

@JourneymanGeek Yep, but that's not mansplaining ^^

10:08 AM

Wrong is wrong ;p

@HugoZink now I need to tell you: I stepped back from the manspreading question because I disagreed with the need of removing the word. I won't explain why here unless you'd like to, but since I disagreed with the other mods and regular users and couldn't make myself very clear on as to why I wasn't okay with that, I stepped back of this one. -TBC

Or if a woman tells a guy that getting hit in the balls can't be that bad, although I was getting to that too. I'd like to wait until they finish typing the whole thing out as otherwise things get confusing for both.

the right thing to do is ask the poor dear if there's anything I can do to help

cause we are civilised empathic people.

@JourneymanGeek At least, the woman in question will have experience with their own period when the man doesn't even have that

@Ælis true

though transman might indicate uhm

some potential experience when stuck in assigned gender.

10:09 AM

@JourneymanGeek I specifically mentioned cismen for this reason

oh

my bad

I misread and I probably shouldn't make excuses for it

I try to be nice and respectful to people of all genders :)

I can be an idiot sometimes ;p

3

comment-pls | need backup | interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/22997/21067

(I rather not interact with this user)

However, as AElis pointed out, nothing was decided on that meta post. That question you suggested an edit on is old, the heated discussion about it since long over, and I believe they deliberately used that word to describe a sociological phenomenon that we need to abolish in order to reach equality, not to insult cismen or anything alike. - TBC

Mithrandir

10:13 AM

If it was posted a few days ago, I wouldn't have refused that edit because refusing to remove the term would have seemed like deliberately trying to piss people off, and cutting the word off would have been less bad than letting people feminism is about women willing to take power over men. I hear this way too often, and it hurts my feelings: all that feminists want is equality among all genders (well, except TERFs, but they're not feminists to me). -TBC

long story short: I thought it was right to talk about mansplaining in that post, sure it did raise some heated conversation but it's been over for a long time, and removing the word now would have seem like dismissing what's a sad reality for a lot of people. Now if you disagree with this decision I'm open to discussion.

:)

A little cuteness after all those heavy talks (it was nice to read your very complete response @ava, thank you :) )

Thanks for your detailed answer! I don't want to argue too much about this little thing, but some things came to mind:

Behavior similar to "mansplaining" is not necessarily exclusive to men. Regarding your "period pain" example, I've been told by women that getting hit in the balls would not hurt any more than getting hit anywhere else. I have also been told that some of my problems don't matter because I am perceived as a male (such as a lack of domestic violence resources for men, which in the US is partially *caused* by feminist initiatives like the VAWA or Duluth Model).

Wow that turned into a wall of text, oops.

huh. Lots of interesting on which to bounce back :p

I'll try to rephrase what you said (so that you can confirm whether I got you right) and give my opinion about it, if that's okay

10:29 AM

Sure

@Ælis Thanks @Ælis, super cute :D

@CaldeiraG :D Feel free to share your own cute pictures if you have some, I do love cuteness :D

@HugoZink text overflow coming:

« Cismen aren't the only ones to dismiss things they know nothing about » : true. They are ciswomen claiming a kick in the balls isn't that painful. That is, to me, a bad thing to do and they shouldn't do it. Why does the term mansplaining exist is because we're talking about a phenomenon that is justified by the societal system (aka, we live in a world were men are raised thinking they're the one who need to work, bring money home, like mechanics, and women should raise the kids and do the household... you get the idea. Men are told to take care of all the productive, lucrative work and wo…

and also something I wanted to ask you: why did you want to edit the mansplaining part of the question but left the one that talks about racism, which is also a systemic oppression of a population against another one? To me that's the same kind of issues, but I'm curious to know whether you think they are different.

10:48 AM

I'll address your last point first since it has the easiest answer: I didn't mean to, and I must have missed it.

"white people are not oppressed by society and the system like people of color are."

Disclaimer: this might be true in Europe and North America (you're speaking from your own perspective). Things aren't so simple when you compare it over the whole world.

I would also like to argue that men and women are both oppressed under one system. I think it's unfair to generalize this as "men oppress women".

I also do think anti-white racism exists in the US and Europe. It's just not necessarily "systemic" and is mostly perpetrated by fairly insignificant individuals.

In response to policies like the Duluth Model: "It's not feminism"

Fair enough, but you should realize that they *do* call themselves feminists, and base their entire reasoning on feminist theory.

I think a giant feminist organization with a lot of funding and a lot of political sway is a better representation of the movement than a random individual saying "hey, not real feminism".

I'm an advocate of bigger seats as a 6'5 person myself, but sadly they would rather save a few dollars and make everything as small as they can.

As someone who presents male myself, I think it's not fair to say that we aren't oppressed under the same system. A lot of issues that men face have similar equivalents for women, and vice-versa. Two separate gender-specific issues often have one underlying cause.

11:35 AM

@Ælis I don't have much cuteness on my phone :p

self promoting his answer on Lifehacks.SE

@HugoZink But at least you are paid more. And you don't get sexualy assault as often. And you are less likely to be killed by your lover

I'm sorry, I was on my lunch break and I'm gonna go get my new car. I'd love to continue this discussion in a dedicated room when I return if you want to :)

11:51 AM

@Ælis overall I'm much more likely to be killed in a violent crime, however.

I'm also not paid more, since I am under 29 and childless. Women in the same category as me earn more than I do on average. If I had to guess, it's because they get college degrees slightly more often.

I'm also not entirely convinced that a wage gap exists due to sexism, but I'm not up to date enough on the matter to back that up with sources.

Ironically, this is exactly what I meant with people telling me "Yeah, but women have it worse in X area".

Okay, both of you: Do note that you're from completely different countries ;) The Netherlands are often doing pretty much better at this stuff than France.

Then you're both on different sides of this too, which might only make the differences seem worse to you than to the other.

Oh, right. Is the cultural difference really that big? The countries seem so close and they're both in the EU

I have never been in France so I wouldn't know

@HugoZink ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/… There's definitely differences. Note how France in some cases isn't even on the tables, because 'data is not available'. Now, if things like that would be a bit more important, they would probably have data ;)

We're close to France on the 'unadjusted' scheme, but if you correct for several things, we're not doing all that bad...

12:07 PM

Interesting

Although I should mention that a gross earnings gap does not necessarily indicate that the entire gap can currently be attributed to sexism. I say "currently", because even if opportunities were perfectly equal right now (and that's a big if), the data wouldn't start reflecting that properly until a few generations from now

> There are two distinct numbers regarding the pay gap: unadjusted versus adjusted pay gap. The latter takes into account differences in hours worked, occupations chosen, education and job experience. For example, someone who takes time off (e.g. maternity leave) will likely not earn as much as someone who does not take time off from work.

Oh i had missed that, whoops.

I think most news articles here focus on how females still work less than males, and on getting that right/better (it's apparently better for the economy if your work force is bigger, so they want to include all females and just raise babies in day care ;) )

A bit of a tangent, but I really hope the trend will shift towards fewer hours of work for all. The trend of overwork culture in some sectors is very worrying

People putting in 70 hour work weeks and sacrificing their own health

Yeah, shorter work weeks sound very nice :) Though I don't do much overwork and I won't ;)

12:12 PM

Yeah, same. I'm not obligated to stay late thankfully

Ideally I'm hoping to move closer to a 30 hour workweek