Ye Olde Hat Shoppe

DavidPostill

9:01 PM

Just got "Where in the World" for puzzling. Haven't been there for at least a couple of hours ...

Catija

@HatsStackExchange Last year we just had a question about what the hats mean, all together... not just numbered ones.

Kaz Wolfe

are we still testing blue in the face for quick 1-reps?

@DavidPostill that one is just "be active during the solstice"

TheSharpieOne

@KazWolfe no, fail

Kaz Wolfe

@TheSharpieOne alrighty.

TheSharpieOne

The one the theory was based on also had negative votes on the question and also had some answers ... to many variables

Alexander O'Mara

9:04 PM

Anyone want to test "Talking about something till you’re “blue in the face?” Maybe getting asked to move a discussion from comments into chat?" with me?

DavidPostill

@KazWolfe I know. I haven't visited it for a few hours. So I should have got the hat a long time ago.

Kaz Wolfe

@DavidPostill i blame caching

rekire

@Catija is there a hat for guessing a hat this year?

Mithrandir

shouldiblamecaching.com

@rekire No

rekire

:(

Catija

9:06 PM

@rekire That was too much work on the part of the CMs, so no.

Mithrandir

>.< 134 more views... To gold badge... And hat...

(But I hit the repcap)

TheSharpieOne

impressive

Videonauth

well i said in here earlier what i did for getting blue in the face, did that not work for anyone ?

Alexander O'Mara

@Videonauth What was it?

Mithrandir

I didn't get Blue In the Face.

Maybe I need two more upvotes?

Hello, welcome to SO! Make sure to check out our tour and our How to Ask page! — Mithrandir 20 mins ago

rekire

9:08 PM

@Catija sure I understand that

Videonauth

Well i had someone ask a question, i comented my guess got an upvote on that, and OP commented that i should move it to an answer i replied that i will do and got that upvoted to and wrote my answer

bot of my comments have been upped exactly one time

Alexander O'Mara

@Mithrandir You got it.

Mithrandir

So now we wait again.

Videonauth

yep

TheSharpieOne

@Mithrandir I had 6 upvotes, no go

Mithrandir

9:10 PM

Ah, but was it a new user/within 3 minutes?

Yes

Hmm.

hmm

funny thing I just realized: the fact we cannot test the end of the winter solstice for the Where in the World hat is actually a specific instance of the halting problem. lol

Mithrandir

So I get closer to that badge :D

MasterBob

9:10 PM

these secret hats are so mysterious

Emily M

after the solstice "halts" we can know it is over, but until then it is impossible to prove when it halts with 100% certainty

DavidPostill

@MasterBob that's the whole point - and why we are having so much fun trying to figure it all out :)

MasterBob

@DavidPostill and exactly why we're here

TheSharpieOne

@EmilyM so the day can go on forever?

and thus... HATS FOREVER!!!

MasterBob

i moved elementary to confirmed

Eran

9:13 PM

@EmilyM you could upvote a post every hour, each time on a new site , until you stop getting the hat

Emily M

@TheSharpieOne thats not really relevant to the halting problem for the hat. more relevant is can the winter solstice go on for ever? and the answer is yes it might, since exhaustively proving it cant is impossible.

@Eran that doesnt solve the problem. That tests proves that it currently is no longer the winter solstice. The halting problem in this case is to prove when the winter solstice ends/the hat giveaway halts >before< it happens.

Kaz Wolfe

okay, testing the "move to chat" theory.

should i actually move it or no?

Alexander O'Mara

Just got Blue in the Face

Must have been a recent comment.

Emily M

and it can't be a deduction like "calling break always halts so this program halts when I call break" in the original halting problem, so it also cant be "the end of 21st always ends the solstice" for this version.

DavidPostill

@EmilyM The real Winter Solstice has a precise date and time (2016-12-21 10:44) so it only lasts an instant - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_solstice

Catija

9:19 PM

"Blue in the face" is a term for someone who is turning blue because they won't stop talking to take a breath...

Barry

alright just spammed the active C++ list with a bunch of edits to my old crappy unanswered questions. come on, hat...

Alexander O'Mara

One of these comments:

Hello, welcome to SO! Make sure to check out our tour and our How to Ask page! — Alexander O'Mara 4 mins ago

Use an array maybe? Not sure what you are looking to accomplish here. — Alexander O'Mara 6 mins ago

First is +2, other no upvotes.

TheSharpieOne

@DavidPostill interesting, 10:44, the GDoc doesn't account for the minutes, it rounds and assumes the entire day.

Emily M

@Eran a correct test would prove the end of the solstice while the solstice is occuring from nothing but the information available while the solstice is occuring. in otherwords you need to prove the future using the past, which you can never do with 100% certainty.

@EmilyM im talking about the hat's definition of solstice

oops

TheSharpieOne

@AlexanderO'Mara This one has a comment made after it, maybe that is key?

Catija

9:21 PM

011 is a reference to Stranger Things.

That's cool.

Emily M

@DavidPostill im talking about the hat's definition of solstice

either way though its just a curious idea

DavidPostill

@EmilyM That also has nothing to do with the halting problem.

bluefeet

@Catija :)

it was subtle

DavidPostill

Temporal hats use a strange definition of day.

Alexander O'Mara

Up by 5? I'm killing it this year!

TheSharpieOne

9:24 PM

someone upvote and comment after stackoverflow.com/questions/41251444/…

Andrew Li

I missed hats due to school :(

MasterBob

sry, gotta go

Andrew Li

@AlexanderO'Mara Nice!

MasterBob

bye

Emily M

Proving when the hat timeperiod ends/halts using only knowledge about when it started and that it currently is not halted/ended is definitely an example of a halting problem in general. its non-computable completely, not just in turing complete machines, so you are technically correct I suppose, since the halting problem specifically concerns turing complete computation.

Alexander O'Mara

9:25 PM

@TheSharpieOne done

TheSharpieOne

@AlexanderO'Mara lol, thanks. Maybe change it to ask what version of jquery and jquery ui they are using so it is not spam.

Catija

@bluefeet I love it. I hadn't looked past the waffle hat and now that I see the jacket/dress, it's so obvious. Great job!

Eran

I think an upvoted comment is not enough, since I had such comment earlier in the day and didn't get the hat. Perhaps the question must be answered after the comment is created or upvoted.

DavidPostill

@EmilyM You don't need to prove it. SE has publicly stated 4 years ago how they define a day for time sensitive hats.

Emily M

You can use outside definitions/axioms that tell you the answer by assumption/definition, but you cant compute it. Since what we can't compute is when something is going to stop, its about halting non-computability. the original halting problem is about a turing-complete computer attempting to determine when it will halt being non-computable.

DavidPostill

9:28 PM

88

A: Why are date-based hats awarded too early?

So, the official answer is: we over-awarded the hat so that people in Auckland / Tokyo / Shanghai / Vanuatu wouldn't have to wait until their midday to receive it. You're all mostly programmers, so you should be reasonably familiar with how much of a headache timezones can be sometimes. Since St...

Emily M

To break it down simpler: if you go into the computation with an axiom that tells you the halting occurs at x, then of course it is known. That still doesnt make it computable though.

DavidPostill

"Since Stack Exchange is run on UTC, we have to leave a +/- 12 hour buffer so that the nations around the International Date Line have just as much opportunity to grab hats as people along the 0 longitude."

Emily M

should be +14/-12

i would think

DavidPostill

@EmilyM No it shouldn't. Nobody has a day that is longer than 24 hours at this time of year.

10 Replies

8 days a week

Emily M

9:31 PM

then why did they start handing out time specific hats at 10 UTC, 14 hours before Dec 21st started locally for any timezone?

DavidPostill

We don't have hats during the clock forward/back times

Emily M

could it be because there is a UTC timezone which is UTC + 14?

or are you saying that it is a bug

see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%2B14:00

btw im not talking about DST

so im not sure what clock forward/backward has to do with anything

Kaz Wolfe

Testing superman hat rn.

Praveen Kumar

Stack Overflow has Time Machine... LoL.

Emily M

No its because there is a timezone that goes over the IDL and has a correction of more then 12 hours

what David should have said is that Nobody has a day that is longer than 24 LOCAL hours at this time of year

DavidPostill

9:36 PM

@EmilyM A possibly newer answer which may satisfy you

66

A: Why didn't (or did) I or some other user get a hat although the requirements were (or weren't) fulfilled?

Leeway on date-based hats Unless the requirement mentions a specific timezone, hats that are date-based are often awarded for 14 hours before and 12 hours after the specified date in UTC, to accommodate people everywhere in the world. This means you can earn such a hat even though for you it's n...

Emily M

yes that answer says the same thing I am saying. sorry if I came across rude btw. hard to respond to a bunch of people being snarky and I got a bit rude.

DavidPostill

@EmilyM I think the local is not required in my statement ;)

Kaz Wolfe

why the goat is hat awarding so delayed

Emily M

there are timezones that have there own leap seconds,days,months,years etc that can make them appear to have a day of more then 24 hours from the perspective of other timezones that for whatever reason dont add the leap time. this is rare but im pretty sure it has happened before because some timezones are really weird. Like North Korea has its own timezone which they do totally arbitrary things with.

*i think north korea has that. forgot the I think

TheSharpieOne

@EmilyM lol, that is a fun and interesting fact. TIL

Andrew Li

9:46 PM

What did I miss?

Kaz Wolfe

has anybody tried buying a hat yet?

TheSharpieOne

@AndrewLi The North Koreans are controlling time

Saiid

^^

TheSharpieOne

@KazWolfe cost too many unicorn dollars... I'm unicorn broke

Emily M

my favorite is that during ww2 britain made itself GMT+2 despite the fact that GMT+0 is within the confines of that timezone. So you could describe GMT+0 as being the same thing as GMT-2 depending on the year

Saiid

9:48 PM

Pieon where did you get unicorn dollars in the first place

Kaz Wolfe

so we need someone who has about 1m unicorn dollars

Andrew Li

@TheSharpieOne You didn't know about that? ;)

TheSharpieOne

@Saiid I mined them when they had that one thing that one year

Kaz Wolfe

I feel like SE is messing with us and fuzzing hat awarding so we don't know what the secret triggers are.

Barry

Can I get an upvote and a comment here? Welcome to SO! See the [tour] and [ask].

blah

Welcome to SO! See the tour and How to Ask. — Barry 33 secs ago

Kaz Wolfe

9:51 PM

@Barry not gonna do anything.

Barry

@KazWolfe Is that not what blue in the face is for?

Emily M

an example of a totally valid time which makes nonlocal 24hour+ days is 23:59:60

Kaz Wolfe

@Barry We don't think so.

Emily M

23:59:59,23:59:60,00:00:00

Saiid

@TheSharpieOne Oh yeah, that thing

Barry

9:52 PM

stackoverflow.com/users/1413395/… has it and he's been posting that sort of thing all day

Glorfindel

This user got the Taco hat while only editing relatively new posts.

Saiid

Taco is only about editing

Elementary is about editing old ones

Kaz Wolfe

maybe it's first edit, without summary?

TheSharpieOne

@Saiid No, editing questions with no answers with votes

@KazWolfe the user @Barry pointed to left summaries

Saiid

@TheSharpieOne .-.

Volatility

9:56 PM

As did the one just linked now

Saiid

I've got both of them

TheSharpieOne

@Saiid It's in the Gdoc

Volatility

Do we know of anyone who has Elementary but not Taco?

Barry

@Volatility me

Kaz Wolfe

@Volatility hi (i have elem, but not taco, and i never leave edit summaries)

Volatility

9:57 PM

Hi

Saiid

@Pieon yes, I see...

Volatility

@Barry @KazWolfe about when did you get Elementary?

Glorfindel

@Volatility I did, on Stack Overflow, until I edited this question.

TheSharpieOne

some people suggest that taco is editing with a negative net character change. @KazWolfe would you say your edits removed more text than was added?

Kaz Wolfe

@Volatility two hours ago?

actually, i got Elementary not long after editing this post

Barry

10:00 PM

a little less. i just spam editted some old posts after the gdoc was updated

Kaz Wolfe

damnit someone just upvoted my candidate for superman.

DavidPostill

@EmilyM Yeah it's 30 minutes different to South Korea :)

Andrew Li

Is there any way to turn off emails from Google Docs?

Emily M

add it to your spam filter /s

Saiid

lol

Andrew Li

10:03 PM

Ok

MasterBob

@AndrewLi must be getting spammed so much

feel pity

Emily M

for real though, try this?

thats a doc specific way though

Kaz Wolfe

#UseGoogleDocsForChat

Praveen Kumar

:D

MasterBob

ppl i set up a requests for testing area in the docs so try to test it if you can

Andrew Li

10:09 PM

@MasterBob yeah...

MasterBob

im trying to but the community user kept rejecting my edits :(

Andrew Li

Seriously the amount of comments

MasterBob

@Andrew Li chat rooms are for not chatting, chatting is in google docs :)

TheSharpieOne

@MasterBob Yeah, chat rooms are for documenting the hats and how to get them.... duh

Saiid

^

MasterBob

10:12 PM

@TheSharpieOne Yeah, my point exactly

Kaz Wolfe

Just got the Taco hat. Revision history

DavidPostill

lol. There are 3 people at least editing the same sentence :)

Saiid

lol

MasterBob

supposedly taco is editing multiple posts without leaving an edit summary

Saiid

http://yes.com

Volatility

10:19 PM

But people have gotten it without not leaving one

Alex

@MasterBob i got Don’t Wanna Taco ‘Bout It for edit 7 old question which havent answers. one of the questions has 0 votes. the number of questions is likely to be lower because hat does not come immediately.

Alexander O'Mara

@Saiid Gotta love how it says, "Thanks to Jon for button ninja skills" but I remember that button is one of the defaults in Adobe Flash.

MasterBob

@Volatility and it would perfectly fit the name, "I don't want to taco bout my edit!"

Saiid

@AlexanderO'Mara lol

MasterBob

@Alex we assumed 5 or 3

Volatility

10:20 PM

My current guess is for an edit of only whitespace and punctuation (of 6 characters or more?), although I'll need to do some tedious cross-checking to verify that

@MasterBob I know :-(

MasterBob

@Alex also, we tried with the 0 votes thing, but its inconsistent

Alex

@MasterBob circle narrows) if I had known it before, I could test it idea..

ATaco

@MasterBob Yeah, I didn't include an edit summery.

Saiid

hmm

MasterBob

@ATaco i guess its hat lag then

ATaco

10:25 PM

I'll give it atleast 10 minutes before calling it disproven.\

Alexander O'Mara

Still need to get 8,243,721 and 6.

Still no new theories?

MasterBob

only the ones on the top of the doc

TheSharpieOne

anyone here have "6"

MasterBob

nope

Alexander O'Mara

I wish, that and 8,243,721 are the ones I'm missing.

MasterBob

10:28 PM

eh

heres the conversation from chat that i was doing with some other ppl

(I’ve gotten it and left an edit summary every time -Saiid) (Maybe you skipped one -MasterBob) (It wouldn’t let me edit without one .-. -Saiid) (Ah, now I see. Some people reported getting the hat when SE reminded them, but they didn’t actually submit without one -MasterBob) (Interesting… -Saiid)

theres more

but its too long

@AndrewLi im commenting :)

ATaco

Also note, that the 2k isn't needed to edit without a summery.

I've got 1.4k on PPCG and could hammer edits without one.

MasterBob

yes

i know

i noted that

@ATaco wait what? sry i misunderstood that but you cant hammer without 2k

Volatility

Newest theory for Taco: make an edit without changing any alphanumeric characters in the body, on a post that is not your own

ATaco

@MasterBob PPCG might have a lower rep requirement to hammer edits.

MasterBob

@Volatility no, that shouldnt be right, ppl have earned it with changing characters in body

@ATaco i see now

NOT

TheSharpieOne

10:33 PM

6 could be 6 consecutive days of activity?

ATaco

Might need multiple done.

MasterBob

nah

Volatility

@MasterBob oh. Example?

MasterBob

@TheSharpieOne i have 11 days of act and not for me

TheSharpieOne

@MasterBob 11 !== 6

MasterBob

10:34 PM

i know, but i had to pass 6

sometime

ATaco

10 minutes later, still no hat. Almost definitely not Hat Lag.

TheSharpieOne

It only started yesterday, you would have been at 10

you probably have to reach 6 during WB

MasterBob

oh whoops

TheSharpieOne

much like a lot of the events for other hats have to happen during WB

MasterBob

maybe 6 of activity (i mean doing something, not just visiting)

ATaco

10:36 PM

@MasterBob Calling it, Solution is not to simply, "Edit an old post with no answers without leaving a summary"

Trying editing no alpha-num chars, (So I'll add a tag to something) and not leaving a summary.

Andrew Li

Someone named "Erno Chen" keeps commenting :(

TheSharpieOne

Anyone else notice this edit which helps eliminate some theories: meta.stackexchange.com/revisions/288284/32

Rob

Who here has the mild mannered hat?

MasterBob

@AndrewLi and who do you think that is?

😉

Volatility

I no longer think my theory is correct: there are people who have done several such edits without getting the hat

Kaz Wolfe

10:44 PM

"low score" = 0?

MasterBob

@KazWolfe I believe so, or lower

Kaz Wolfe

huh.

Saiid

@ATaco I did more than that and got it

ATaco

I'm trying to work out what in particular triggered it.

The hat itself is merely the reward for the effort.

MasterBob

@ATaco we don't care about why we get hats. we just want the hats

5

Saiid

10:50 PM

lol

@MasterBob +1

ATaco

The world deserves to wear my likeness with PRIDE!

Saiid

lol

ATaco

This did not grant the hat either.

Saiid

lol

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

@MasterBob everyone wants to be like me, lol

Saiid

10:59 PM

xD

Volatility

@ATaco did you vote on the question before editing it?

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

im still lost in how you get the Blue in the Face hat.

ATaco

@Volatility No, for both.

Volatility

hmm

ATaco

"No, I didn’t comment on any of the posts I edited, nor did I cast a vote -Saiid"

MasterBob

11:02 PM

hmm

ATaco

Important to remember that Community has Taco. So it can only be something that Community does.

MasterBob

ta....cooo!!!

Volatility

I was checking my theory that you can only get Taco if you hadn't voted, but apparently that's not the case :-(

MasterBob

of course its not

ok im stopping my hat search right now

im going to vote

bye

Monica Cellio

I know there are problems with Amped Up (which I think I should have gotten but haven't). Does anybody know if there are also problems with Running Ragged? I qualified (+150 each on three non-SO sites) hours ago, but no hat yet.

Mark Yisri

11:17 PM

@Mithrandir Why can I only have one hat when you have 3?

Kaz Wolfe

@MarkYisri He's awesome.

ATaco

Still a chance for hat lag, I only just got "Just here for the hat" and "I am your father" on SO.

Mark Yisri

@Ataco I only have Just here for the hat

Volatility

11:50 PM

This guy has Taco for just editing tag wikis (mostly additions, although some have deletions as well)

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